Needs a little more detail as to the concept you're looking for: armor use (none, light, medium, heavy), combat focus (melee or range), spell use (none, limited, semi-, or full; battlefield control, buffing, damage, or mixed), etc.
Off the top of my head, you could be looking at a beastmorph alchemist 14/master chymist 6 (for draconic mutagen), an antipaladin, a beast or fiend totem barbarian (tiefling, perhaps?), a kobold cleric of Dahak (with Draconic Aspect feat chain), a tiefling fiend flayer magus, oracle (Flame mystery)/demoniac (Flauros), sorcerer/dragon disciple (possibly eldritch knight, as well), half-orc blood god disciple summoner (with Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal bloodline)/Improved Edritch Heritage), or even a wizard 8/ranger (natural weapons Combat Style) 2/eldritch knight 10 (concentrating on Conjuration to summon/bind fiends and Transmutation to take various forms, including dragons with the form of the dragon spells).
Torch17: I'll have to warn you that making level 20 characters who are effective is actually extremely complex. For example, there are a lot of spells to chose from. Some of those might look awesome, some might look less awesome. It takes experience and a lot of reading to know what to pick and what to avoid.
take a look at the vacuum.there are some issues with when he took eldrich heritage feats but that was before ultimate campaign's retraining rules. Everything should be legal but read the thread and of course double check for yourself.
Hmmm. I when I read his question, I thought it was an awesome idea. I'd love to play a one or two session Battle Royale/ Hunger Games set -up. You could be anything!
At 20 th level? Awesome...
An Aasimar sorcerer with The dragon blood line
A goblin skirmishes TWF ranger . Double wakizashi's!
Cool...
Torch17: I'll have to warn you that making level 20 characters who are effective is actually extremely complex. For example, there are a lot of spells to chose from. Some of those might look awesome, some might look less awesome. It takes experience and a lot of reading to know what to pick and what to avoid.
...well, isn't that why Torch17 came here and asked in the first place?!?
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If you are new and want something to draw on, check out the Guide to the Builds. We've got a ton of fun, strong level 20 builds. Stick to the three+ star builds if you really want to rock: "One" and "The Vacuum" are notable, and "The Enchantress" could also be a good bet.
If the DM is letting you use 3pp rules, you should go for a level 20 Dread (using the dreamscarred press Psionic rules). They're a ton of fun.
The last time we did a Battle Royale was back in 3.5 and we used nothing but core classes. The Ranger wound up taking the gold, so that's something to consider.
If you want to win vs everyone, try out My wizard!
If the gm actually wants this to be close or something, don't play a caster. If you play a level 20 diviner wizard you are basically 100% unbeatable, almost regardless of what spells you cast.
No way.... I had a 20th lv cleric that would eat you for breakfast..... virtually immune to magic
Yeah...level 20 diviner wizard is the winner here. You will go first. You get a natural 20 on all initiative roles.
Follow it up with time stop to set up some needed buffs. Make sure you have a contingency spell in place. Dazing spell metamagic will pretty much end the fight.
You could also go on the very reliable combo of maximized enervation and quicken maximized enervation (use a rod of quicken). This is 8 negative levels on an opponent. Provided they don't have spell resistance, there is no save and touch AC is low against most opponents (not Monks).
Spend your time stop rounds to buff yourself with flight and greater invisibility at least. Even if they came prepared to deal with flying or invisible creatures the options they use will still force them to use up their actions to counter yours.
The only thing to worry about it having enough metamagic rods and pearls of power to make it through all your fights.
You could also just prepare several mage's disjunctions and prismatic walls. Mage's disjunction will destroy all their items. No items means their character is probably worthless. Prismatic wall is your ultimate defense.
No way.... I had a 20th lv cleric that would eat you for breakfast..... virtually immune to magicIf you want to win vs everyone, try out My wizard!
If the gm actually wants this to be close or something, don't play a caster. If you play a level 20 diviner wizard you are basically 100% unbeatable, almost regardless of what spells you cast.
Care to share your secret? Because aroden's spellbane can negate antimagic, and a diviner wizard will go first against your cleric. So unless you have innate very high SR you will either get double maximized enervated or mage's disjunction-ed.
Broken Zenith,
I like One. Although, I had no idea such a resource was out there. Awesome!
do you have any idea how many fights you'll be in? and over the course of how long, in-game time?
all the suggestions for full casters are great, but the one issue with builds like that is that they blow through resources quickly... if you're all spread out on an island and the fighting may span a week with 1-2 encounters per day, you'll be in good shape; if you're all in a labyrinth with confined corridors and very few places to hide or get away from each other, you could potentially be looking at 5+ encounters in a day... that would require some serious resource management (and the forethought to buy/bring some scrolls/wands and other things to boost your resources).
one way to increase your resources would be to look at Mystic Theurge- a wood oracle can qualify with only one oracle the level (the SLA from Bend the Grain satisfies the requirement for 2nd level divine spells), so a sorc 9/oracle 1/MT 10 would give you all the spells of 19th level sorc, plus all the spells of an 11th level oracle.
at 20th level every class can (if built well) be very powerful- fights are unlikely to last more than a couple of rounds, and one of the deciding factors in who comes out on top is how many actions you can get off in that limited amount of time (usually referred to as "action economy"). there a few ways that you can increase yours, which should help: an earlier poster mentioned time stop- awesome spell, get several rounds worth of actions in, effectively, one round; someone else mentioned a quicken rod- again, awesome, extra spell in the round, if you make a caster you basically need at least one of these; one that hasn't been mentioned yet (and its a big one) is adding creatures to your team (which actually multiplies your number of actions).
that last one is important, but this is going to turn into a long post, so i'm going to put it in a spoiler so those who aren't interested don't have to scroll through it all...
1. a cohort- taking the leadership feat gives you, basically, a second PC. with a decent Charisma, at 20th level, your cohort could be as high 18th level him/herself! they should be able to accomplish quite a bit, and cover some of your weaknesses... for example in you made a Mystic Theurge, your companion could be some kind of melee class, or if you make anything other than MT your cohort could be a MT (an Idyllkin Aasimar could go wizard 7/cleric 1/MT 10, and end up with 9th level arcane spells). the one downside is that they won't be as well equipped (depending on you GMs mood it may get its own equipment based on NPC wealth by level, or you might have to buy it gear out of your wealth).
2. an eidolon- the summoner class gets a pet (with its own whole round of actions), that is potentially the strongest pet in the game. this forces you to play a summoner (the downside), but a well built eidolon at 20th level can take down most PCs in a single round. make a quadruped with the arms evolution, spend its feats on proficiency with either greatsword or falchion and power attack (and anything that makes charging better/easier), keep it as big and strong as possible, with its natural attacks maxed out, and take the pounce ability (first round it can charge and hit 3-4 times with its weapon plus 7 natural attacks).
3. a familiar- wizards, witches, and some sorcerers get them free, but anybody can get one by taking skill focus[any knowledge] and Eldritch Heritage [arcane]. familiars can be fragile and can't wade into combat like an eidolon, but if you invest in the improved familiar feat you can take a faerie dragon... they cast as a 3rd level sorc, which sounds insignificant at 20th, but that means they can use wiz/sorc wands with no Use Magic Device checks- so while you're using your turn for something important it can fly around using improved invisibility or dimension door for you, or tossing black tentacles or fireballs at your enemies. if you invest in its UMD, it could also buff or heal you or your other teammates (by making UMD checks to use divine wands or scrolls).
4. an animal companion- druid, rangers, and a small number of clerics and sorcerers get an animal companion for free; cavaliers and some other classes get a modified version called 'mount' those are less useful (though a flying one could be handy, depending on the set up). there is also a set of feats that let anybody get one... its (mostly) from a supplement called "Faiths and Philosophies", and goes nature soul, animal ally, and boon companion; with these three feats you gain an animal companion that's equal to a Druid's at your level. the animal companions aren't as powerful in melee as eidolons, and they can't do the magical support stuff that a familiar can, but if you hit them with the right buffs they can be pretty effective in melee (and some of them can be helpful with perception and/or tracking), and it never hurts to be getting an extra set of actions. plus, see below.
so, there's 4 options for multiplying your actions/turn... the really crazy thing is you can actually stack these... if you make a summoner (Charisma based casting) you already have an eidolon and you can pretty easily take both the leadership feat and the feats for an improved familiar (there's also a feat called evolved familiar that can get it +8 to Use Magic Device)- that gives you 4 full turns every round (your own, the eidolon's, the familiar's and your cohort's) already! if you make your cohort a wildblooded sorcerer [sylvan] 7/oracle [wood] 1/MT 10 with all 3 feats from #4 (which should, i think, make your effective druid level equal to you character level), that would give one more full round worth of actions (and the sorcerer has some insane buffs he can give the animal... like form of the dragon 3, stacked with transformation, lol). plus, if you can spare the feats, the cohort could also pick another familiar (for a total of 6 rounds worth of actions every turn!)
@OP- you said you're inexperienced, so if you just read the spoiler (which you really should) your head might be spinning right now... if that's the case (and you're interested in looking at this kind of build) here's a step by step for what to do:
1. talk to your GM and make sure he's allowing all the feats i mentioned
2. if so, ask what the point buy is for cohorts and what to do for their equipment
3. PM me (with the info from 2) and i'll help you actually put something together.
do you have any idea how many fights you'll be in? and over the course of how long, in-game time?
all the suggestions for full casters are great, but the one issue with builds like that is that they blow through resources quickly... if you're all spread out on an island and the fighting may span a week with 1-2 encounters per day, you'll be in good shape; if you're all in a labyrinth with confined corridors and very few places to hide or get away from each other, you could potentially be looking at 5+ encounters in a day... that would require some serious resource management (and the forethought to buy/bring some scrolls/wands and other things to boost your resources).
I think that given the trickiness of running such a battle royale, I bet the game master is going to run it like an arena free-for-all or a set of one-on-one arena matches.
Trying to deal with 3-5 players independently spread out on an island trying to backstab eachother would be a logistical nightmare unless you run it online.
Yeah a bit more rules specifics for exactly how this battle royale is going to happen would be useful.
Is it legal for you as a wizard to plane shift to your demiplane and wait out the battle away from everyone else while they kill one another?
Probably not, its at least against the spirit of the competition I would imagine. But its always nice to know what the rules are.
If your DM will allow it, you can also technically have an infinite number of Explosive Runes premade. Then as you move about place them on every surface as you go about. Watch as non-rogues and non-casters die from little pieces of paper.
Yeah a bit more rules specifics for exactly how this battle royale is going to happen would be useful.
VERY useful!
some builds (especially a lot of caster builds) are nearly unstoppable if its a tournament of (basically) one-on-one fights that you get to rest between (and start each fight with all their resources) but couldn't handle a 3rd or 4th fight in the same day at all... others (like many melee combatants) have the same offensive and defensive capabilities in the 10th encounter of the day as they do in the 1st (as long as they have some method of healing HP between fights, like potions, or wands and UMD). how spread out the combats are (time wise) makes a big difference too- will these buffs from fight 1 still be active by fight 2 or 3? as does distance- an archer or caster who has to fight a barbarian in a 20'x20' room is in a much different position than one fighting that same barbarian in an open field...
your GM may not want to give out too much info (because the more you know about the scenario the more you can customize your guy to it), but the more you can get (and share) the better the advice you'll get here will be.
Yeah...level 20 diviner wizard is the winner here. You will go first. You get a natural 20 on all initiative roles.
Follow it up with time stop to set up some needed buffs. Make sure you have a contingency spell in place. Dazing spell metamagic will pretty much end the fight.
You could also go on the very reliable combo of maximized enervation and quicken maximized enervation (use a rod of quicken). This is 8 negative levels on an opponent. Provided they don't have spell resistance, there is no save and touch AC is low against most opponents (not Monks).
Spend your time stop rounds to buff yourself with flight and greater invisibility at least. Even if they came prepared to deal with flying or invisible creatures the options they use will still force them to use up their actions to counter yours.
The only thing to worry about it having enough metamagic rods and pearls of power to make it through all your fights.
You could also just prepare several mage's disjunctions and prismatic walls. Mage's disjunction will destroy all their items. No items means their character is probably worthless. Prismatic wall is your ultimate defense.
Care to share your secret? Because aroden's spellbane can negate antimagic, and a diviner wizard will go first against your cleric. So unless you have innate very high SR you will either get double maximized enervated or mage's disjunction-ed.No way.... I had a 20th lv cleric that would eat you for breakfast..... virtually immune to magicIf you want to win vs everyone, try out My wizard!
If the gm actually wants this to be close or something, don't play a caster. If you play a level 20 diviner wizard you are basically 100% unbeatable, almost regardless of what spells you cast.
I had one who was a Samsaran Divine Strategist with some very interesting kit..... natural 20s all the way!
And TBH I will have much better saves than him and better HP.... even if he did manage to go first, he'd better put me down in the first round or he's toast when I get my go...... and remember no meta-gaming!
Oh, a wizard at that level casts no save spells instantly, high saves are no issue.
Also, at level 20, you have roughly a billion spell slots per day, the wizard I linked could fight 5+ times, and still be in great shape!
To provide an example:
Limited Wish/Wish duplicating Geas/Quest cast by a neutral caster is guaranteed no save mind control that will get anyone who is not flat out immune to mind-affecting (very hard to come by outside of certain races).
Diviner Wizard is probably your best bet for this as you have massive +'s to going to first. An Oracle with access to Paragon Surge (through being a half-elf or Racial Heritage) and Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) can also put out a high Initiative with Noble Scion (Scion of War) while allowing for access to the (almost) entire Cleric/Oracle and Sorcerer/Wizard list which can produce some pretty scary spell combinations.
Except that according to the rules... my character also auto scores a natural 20 on Inititaive and through the beauty of domains has access to Time Stop too...... oh and high saves ARE most definitely an issue for any opposing caster, irrsepective of level
The key to these kind of battle royales is how much prep time is allowed for the combatants..... any at all and I cast Greater Invisibility... etc and wait for the best time to strike..... like I said no meta gaming....
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Step 1: Choose a race with wings.
Step 2: Build a fighter/barbarian with a glaive specialization to the hilt.
Step 3: Buy a ring of spell storing (or other such device) and put an Antimagic shell in it.
Step 4: Bring a bow with some good ammo (of slaying for example) to snipe people you can't easily kill - the magic turns back on once the arrow leaves the area of your Antimagic shell.
This simple combination will defeat 99% of all contenders simply because they can't get away from you (you fly) and once you close with them you turn off the magic. Their magic can't touch you.
Have several backup rings of spell storing because there are a few things that can bring this down (Mage's disjunction for example).
Easy, peesy.
remember, you don't have to play this character for more than a couple of fights, so don't bother to balance it out. Just go whole hog on one strong tactic.
Step 1: Choose a race with wings.
Step 2: Build a fighter/barbarian with a glaive specialization to the hilt.
Step 3: Buy a ring of spell storing (or other such device) and put an Antimagic shell in it.
Step 4: Bring a bow with some good ammo (of slaying for example) to snipe people you can't easily kill - the magic turns back on once the arrow leaves the area of your Antimagic shell.
This simple combination will defeat 99% of all contenders simply because they can't get away from you (you fly) and once you close with them you turn off the magic. Their magic can't touch you.
Have several backup rings of spell storing because there are a few things that can bring this down (Mage's disjunction for example).
Easy, peesy.
remember, you don't have to play this character for more than a couple of fights, so don't bother to balance it out. Just go whole hog on one strong tactic.
This....
Actually the best anti-caster character Ive come across was an extremely stealthy ninja type with unbelievably vicious bow skills...... he took down my mates lv 17 sorceror without even breaking a sweat.
He tried to meta-game his way out of it.... but to no avail!
Hello All.... I am a fairly new pathfinder player.... My DM suggested we do a special two game battle royale where we create a lvl 20 character (25 point buyout) and fight them to the death between each other and enemies the DM creates..
The Problem is since I am a new player... i have a hard enough time creating a lvl 1 character from scratch!! :P
Can I please have some advice or serious help with this!! It can be any class and any alignment in the Pathfinder universe... I was told ANYTHING GOES!!!! :)
I am thinking a Chaotic Evil character with Dragon or demon or half fiend blood in it's heritage.
Thanks All!! Any Help or suggestions will be appreciated!!!!
Some important questions would be:
Where are the limits? (Is Blood Money allowed Can one bring some Simulacra along? What about Leadership to bring a second character? Are the builds Core Rules only? Teleporting to one's own Demiplane to rest, if things go wrong?)Do you have any input on the arena? Are there any possibilities to start hidden(would make Initiative less important etc.)? Is prebuffing allowed(really important)?
What character with Dragon/Fiend Blood Do you want? Caster? Martial? Hybrid?
Too be fair surfer, I actually posted my wizard, so I get to back mine up with facts.
Also, I think you ignored the part where there is NO SAVE. Wizards control you with NO SAVE. Saves become worthless against an optimized wizard.
Greater Geas or are there more ways to do this? Wanna know!
Also do you have to use your timeless Demiplane to change spells, since you only got Divinations?
Too be fair surfer, I actually posted my wizard, so I get to back mine up with facts.
Also, I think you ignored the part where there is NO SAVE. Wizards control you with NO SAVE. Saves become worthless against an optimized wizard.
Greater Geas or are there more ways to do this? Wanna know!
Also do you have to use your timeless Demiplane to change spells, since you only got Divinations?
Geas, but it has to be cast through wish to reduce the casting time to a standard rather than 10 minutes. And what are you talking about only has Divination? A divination wizard specialized in divination spells, but isn't restricted to only casting divination spells.
@Silver Surfer, saves are a non-issue for a high level wizard I have already pointed this out. A quicken-maximized enervate followed by a maximized enervate will be 8 negative levels, NO save. After that, your saves will have dropped enough that they are no longer insurmountable.
I looked up the Divine Strategist Cleric, and it does effectively grant the same bonus to init that a Diviner Wizard gets. As far as greater invisibility, do you think a wizard wont already be using that as well? And permenant true sight? Because he can do that. And see right through invisibility. In this battle it would literally come down to who gets to go first. With 9th level spell casters of any sort thats usually what it comes down to. Normally wizards have a better debuffing and offensive spell list than clerics, but with the choice of Samsaran you can get access to things on the wizard spell list which effectively just makes you a divine wizard with the correct selection of spells.
I'd still put my money on a wizard though.
And what are you talking about only has Divination? A divination wizard specialized in divination spells, but isn't restricted to only casting divination spells.Too be fair surfer, I actually posted my wizard, so I get to back mine up with facts.
Also, I think you ignored the part where there is NO SAVE. Wizards control you with NO SAVE. Saves become worthless against an optimized wizard.
Greater Geas or are there more ways to do this? Wanna know!
Also do you have to use your timeless Demiplane to change spells, since you only got Divinations?
CHWheezy's wizard only has Divination spells memorized. If he wants to hit somebody with a geas for example he has to teleport to his demiplane, rest(which doesn't cost time, due to his plane's properties)memorized the needed spells and rejoin the fight. I think that's his tactic. Unless I'm missing a trick or he is justscrying then sending his simulacra army..
Btw packing a Rod of Absorption is really a big advantage here by the way. Not Only against Enervation, but many other abilities as well.
I would send in an Arcane Sorcerer with a Ring of three wishes(or some other Wish item). Since I can expend 3 lvls of spell slots to keep the charges inside the Ring, I have lots of material cost free wishes ready all the time. I'm basically Schroedinger's Sorcerer.
However I doubt I could get my Initiative high enough to keep up with those annoying Diviner wizards.
20th level Ninja. Can't be detected by any means, wait for everyone else to kill each other and take out the winner.
20th level Ninja. Can't be detected by any means, wait for everyone else to kill each other and take out the winner.
Unless the Winner ends up being a Barbarian. Then he has a problem.
20th level Ninja. Can't be detected by any means, wait for everyone else to kill each other and take out the winner.Unless the Winner ends up being a Barbarian. Then he has a problem.
The Barbarian still has to find him
The Barbarian still has to find him20th level Ninja. Can't be detected by any means, wait for everyone else to kill each other and take out the winner.Unless the Winner ends up being a Barbarian. Then he has a problem.
There has been some debate about what this phrase actually means, and I'm not certain it has even been resolved.
I believe the intention is that abilities like true sight, see invsibility, and other magical/spell like/supernatural sources would not pierce this invsibility. I believe however, that things like flour, ash, etc tossed on the floor or applied ot the character will negate this. I understand the RAW on this, but the more I read and understand the game the more I think following RAW is the silliest thing one can do.
Also, the Hidden Master ability requires the expenditure of 3 ki points, and last for 2 minutes. I don't know how many ki points any theortical ninja build has, but it wont be enough to spend the entire day using Hidden Master.
@Whisperknives, it actually just sounds like several people made some bad decisions that resulted in the general progression of the fight. Still, Zen archers are a strong option, especially when otherwise ignored until the end of the fight. If you take out the other ranged opponents (most specifically spell casters) it is very reasonable that a zen archer would be able to wrap up the fight.
IMOP pathfinder is ill suitet for this kind of exercise. You will use houers pehaps days to make the characters and double check that the GM is ok with the players Reading of the different rules, look at CWheezys wizard abd the comments he drew for an example. And then it will either end in 3 rounds or drag on forever, se the post above mine for an example of both( what happend to the cleric btw?).
But look at the abherrent sorcerer blodline when you decide that it is a good idea any way( the level 15 and 20 powers look good for this kind of game.
And make sure you have a rod of absorption in your left hand:)
If you know its a battle royale situaiton situation theres no excuse to not have some contingency plans for opponents who don't wont be taken what you excel at.
Also, the fighting area or arena could make a huge difference here. If we are in a large, but limited space that 90ft of movement might not make such a big deal if you're only in a 60ft room. Also, if were not in a big flat plane there should be stuff to hide behind. Shrewd tactics can also change this as well. Move behind cover, ready a move action to move again if the monk moves in such a way as to negate your total cover.
Also, had the paladin bothered to put ranks in UMD (as a character with a decent cha should) he would have purchased a wand of wind wall. The zen archers only option would have been to run.
A monk of a winged race with access to an anti-magic shell
IMOP pathfinder is ill suitet for this kind of exercise. You will use houers pehaps days to make the characters and double check that the GM is ok with the players Reading of the different rules, look at CWheezys wizard abd the comments he drew for an example. And then it will either end in 3 rounds or drag on forever, se the post above mine for an example of both( what happend to the cleric btw?).
But look at the abherrent sorcerer blodline when you decide that it is a good idea any way( the level 15 and 20 powers look good for this kind of game.
And make sure you have a rod of absorption in your left hand:)Good point. I missed something in round 2.
The cleric charged the Paladin and missed, then got beaten to death on the Paladin's turn.
It was the start of the third round when the Paladin could not get to the monk.
At the start of round 3 the monk moved 90 feet away and fired one shot, the Paladin never got to take a swing, because he never got even close to the Monk.
At level 20 the Paladin could lay on hands like 41 times a day and for 96 HP each time.
It was:
Monk: Move 90 feet, shoot arrow.
Paladin: Run to try to corner him. Lay on hands about once every 3 rounds, or on any round he took a crit.Over 60 rounds later the Pally was dead.
If the Paladin had taken the feats: Shield Focus and Missile Shield, it might have helped but he was a 2 hander Pally not sword and board.
There toward the end people were just wanting it to be called but you never know when a crit fail could completely change things.
The cleric cast wind wall and next round he charged a paladin? Did he forget that clerics are full casters?
Edit: and it sounds like the pally should have ben able to shoot down the monk in the 60 turns.
Well the OP is gone is he?
A monk of a winged race with access to an anti-magic shell
People need to stop suggesting this since any caster worth 20 Casters Levels is immune to it. All you are doing is making yourself an easy target by turning off all your buffs.
Depending on the makeup of the arena you'll be fighting in, an interesting choice is 20th level Merfolk Aquatic Bloodline Sorcerer. 20 rounds of Control Water with no water source needed, and its dimensions doubled. First round activate this ability, and watch the rest of the combatants drown while you play cat and mouse games with them.