I approve of this change!Will Word Strike get changed at all? The current version is rather useless and pointless as it seems designed to destroy objects, but with the 'half energy damage to objects before hardness' thing, it can barely do something like smash a 2x4 piece of wood.
Also, what about Sound Strikers being unable to use Mass Suggestion because they don't possess the Suggestion ability?
I don't want to come off as unappreciative or greedy, I'm just trying to get one of the coolest Bard archetypes fixed. I really enjoy this change and appreciate the fact it was made more 'user friendly' while also toning down the awesome power the previous version had.
Why are they unable to use Mass Suggestion? As far as I can tell, they still have that ability. Nothing in its description requires that you have Suggestion to use it. Nothing in the Sound Striker seems to restrict it. Is there something I'm missing?
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Why are they unable to use Mass Suggestion? As far as I can tell, they still have that ability. Nothing in its description requires that you have Suggestion to use it. Nothing in the Sound Striker seems to restrict it. Is there something I'm missing?
I approve of this change!Will Word Strike get changed at all? The current version is rather useless and pointless as it seems designed to destroy objects, but with the 'half energy damage to objects before hardness' thing, it can barely do something like smash a 2x4 piece of wood.
Also, what about Sound Strikers being unable to use Mass Suggestion because they don't possess the Suggestion ability?
I don't want to come off as unappreciative or greedy, I'm just trying to get one of the coolest Bard archetypes fixed. I really enjoy this change and appreciate the fact it was made more 'user friendly' while also toning down the awesome power the previous version had.
From what I am reading in Ultimate Magic, it looks like Mass Suggestion would not be available, but that a sound striker would get Suggestion at level 18.
If an archetype replaces a class ability that is part of a series of improvements or additions to a base ability (such as a fighter's weapon training or a ranger's favored enemy), the next time the character would gain that ability, it counts as the lower-level ability that was replaced by the archetype. In effect, all abilities in that series are delayed until the next time the class improves that ability. For example, if an archetype replaces a rogue's +2d6 sneak attack bonus at 3rd level, when she reaches 5th level and gains a sneak attack bonus, her sneak attack doesn't jump from +1d6 to +3d6—it improves to +2d6, just as if she had finally gained the increase at 3rd level. This adjustment continues for every level at which her sneak attack would improve, until at 19th level she has +9d6 instead of the +10d6 of a standard rogue.
So much for casting the Shadowbard spell and firing off 10 Weird Words every round, plus doing your own Bardic Performance.
I'd think that Shadowbard would still work. It has access to your performances and I don't see any text in Shadowbard that would make the "always a standard action" of the new Weird Words a barrier. It should work, unless I am missing an angle?
But instead of my 15th level bard getting 150 free attacks, he gets 45.
I've been busy with work and hadn't visited the boards in a while. I'm pleasantly surprised to see that Weird Words has finally received an official fix. If my PC were back in action he'd be able to do around 51 damage on average to a single foe with this new FAQ, much better than the 18 or so he was able to deal with the old one. This makes Weird Words a worthwhile ability again!
The reduction in attack rolls and removal of saving throws will surely be greatly appreciated by players and DMs alike. Eventually gaining 4 and 5 attacks instead of just 3 like Scorching Ray isn't such a big deal since the damage modifiers are limited to once per target. Overall it seems like a good fix to me.
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Thanks to everyone in this thread for discussing the previous proposal. Thanks to you and your ideas, we have come up with a FAQ entry on weird words that speeds up gameplay compared to the original with several advantages over the previous proposal!
Bard: The sound striker’s weird words ability is confusing. Does it work more than once on the same target? And does it require 30 rolls to adjudicate?
Change the text of weird words to the following “At 6th level the bard can start a performance that is always a standard action to speak up to one word per 4 bard levels laden with sonic energy. Each word deals 4d6 points of sonic damage as a ranged touch attack with a range of 30 feet. The bard adds his charisma modifier on damage rolls with weird words. Multiple words that strike the same target stack into a single powerful attack, applying energy resistance and bonuses on damage rolls only once. The bard can target all words at the same or different targets, but he unleashes all words simultaneously. Each word costs 1 round of bardic performance.” This change will be reflected in future errata.
I like this, it is very Bardy without being Scorching Ray. A few things I do notice.
1. It is not a ray meaning that it is NOT a ranged weapon and things like Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot and Inspire Courage will not apply to the attack roll.
2. The trade off for #1 gives us the awesome bonus of applying energy resistance 1 time on multiple words. #HappyDance So the Sonic Resist mobs still take it in the teeth.
3. I've never been so happy in my life :) Arcane Healer/Sound Striker here I come!
Thanks to everyone in this thread for discussing the previous proposal. Thanks to you and your ideas, we have come up with a FAQ entry on weird words that speeds up gameplay compared to the original with several advantages over the previous proposal!
Bard: The sound striker’s weird words ability is confusing. Does it work more than once on the same target? And does it require 30 rolls to adjudicate?
Change the text of weird words to the following “At 6th level the bard can start a performance that is always a standard action to speak up to one word per 4 bard levels laden with sonic energy. Each word deals 4d6 points of sonic damage as a ranged touch attack with a range of 30 feet. The bard adds his charisma modifier on damage rolls with weird words. Multiple words that strike the same target stack into a single powerful attack, applying energy resistance and bonuses on damage rolls only once. The bard can target all words at the same or different targets, but he unleashes all words simultaneously. Each word costs 1 round of bardic performance.” This change will be reflected in future errata.
Word!
Thanks to everyone in this thread for discussing the previous proposal. Thanks to you and your ideas, we have come up with a FAQ entry on weird words that speeds up gameplay compared to the original with several advantages over the previous proposal!
Bard: The sound striker’s weird words ability is confusing. Does it work more than once on the same target? And does it require 30 rolls to adjudicate?
Change the text of weird words to the following “At 6th level the bard can start a performance that is always a standard action to speak up to one word per 4 bard levels laden with sonic energy. Each word deals 4d6 points of sonic damage as a ranged touch attack with a range of 30 feet. The bard adds his charisma modifier on damage rolls with weird words. Multiple words that strike the same target stack into a single powerful attack, applying energy resistance and bonuses on damage rolls only once. The bard can target all words at the same or different targets, but he unleashes all words simultaneously. Each word costs 1 round of bardic performance.” This change will be reflected in future errata.I like this, it is very Bardy without being Scorching Ray. A few things I do notice.
1. It is not a ray meaning that it is NOT a ranged weapon and things like Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot and Inspire Courage will not apply to the attack roll.
2. The trade off for #1 gives us the awesome bonus of applying energy resistance 1 time on multiple words. #HappyDance So the Sonic Resist mobs still take it in the teeth.
3. I've never been so happy in my life :) Arcane Healer/Sound Striker here I come!
Sure Inspire Courage apply. It is still an attack roll.
3. I've never been so happy in my life :) Arcane Healer/Sound Striker here I come!
Using music to heal or harm. Thematically Songhealer/Sound Striker a great archetype combination.
3. I've never been so happy in my life :) Arcane Healer/Sound Striker here I come!Using music to heal or harm. Thematically Songhealer/Sound Striker a great archetype combination.
I would like Songhealer more if it truly functioned before 14th level. My preference would be for the Songhealer to be able to cast cure spells using rounds of bardic performance, or possibly give those under her performance regeneration or fast healing.
I would like Songhealer more if it truly functioned before 14th level. My preference would be for the Songhealer to be able to cast cure spells using rounds of bardic performance, or possibly give those under her performance regeneration or fast healing.3. I've never been so happy in my life :) Arcane Healer/Sound Striker here I come!Using music to heal or harm. Thematically Songhealer/Sound Striker a great archetype combination.
I didn't realize that Arcane Healer was an actual archetype. I thought you had misremembered the name of the Songhealer. I agree that Arcane Healer is much better.
I didn't realize that Arcane Healer was an actual archetype. I thought you had misremembered the name of the Songhealer. I agree that Arcane Healer is much better.I would like Songhealer more if it truly functioned before 14th level. My preference would be for the Songhealer to be able to cast cure spells using rounds of bardic performance, or possibly give those under her performance regeneration or fast healing.3. I've never been so happy in my life :) Arcane Healer/Sound Striker here I come!Using music to heal or harm. Thematically Songhealer/Sound Striker a great archetype combination.
I didn't even know about that archetype! I thought he'd said Arcane Duelist. Oh, if only Arcane Healer didn't replace Lore Master! Then I could make an Arcane Healer, Dawnflower Dervish, Soundstriker Bard and be a true Song Warrior of Sarenrae.
The Arcane Healer looks like a nice option though the feat support could get expensive (Extra Channel, Selective Channel, etc). The Dirge Bard archetype also works with Sound Striker, and I found it to be a lot of fun.
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The Arcane Healer looks like a nice option though the feat support could get expensive (Extra Channel, Selective Channel, etc). The Dirge Bard archetype also works with Sound Striker, and I found it to be a lot of fun.
I'm considering an Arcane Healer/Soundstriker that uses Weapon Finesse/Dervish Dance then Extra Channel/Selective and Discordant Voice, anything else is just gravy.
Tels... STOP STEALING MAH BUILD!!!
#GreatMindsThinkAlike
I feel... like I've done this before?
Tels... STOP STEALING MAH BUILD!!!
#GreatMindsThinkAlike
Hmm... to further expand upon this Bard character, she will be named Lyndah'Zey of Sterling and she will use a violin as her musical instrument.
[Edit] Added links. Also, fixed links.
If only I could find someway to enchant either the bow of the violin to function as a scimitar, or a scimitar to function as a bow...
TL:DR
dunno if this has been considered or not but combine it with paladin or the hellknight PrC
Smite evil/chaos = no DR
and this was on a PFS Character
The Pathfinder Design Team has already issued a FAQrrata about this, here's the change:
Bard: The sound striker’s weird words ability is confusing. Does it work more than once on the same target? And does it require 30 rolls to adjudicate?
Change the text of weird words to the following “At 6th level the bard can start a performance that is always a standard action to speak up to one word per 4 bard levels laden with sonic energy. Each word deals 4d6 points of sonic damage as a ranged touch attack with a range of 30 feet. The bard adds his charisma modifier on damage rolls with weird words. Multiple words that strike the same target stack into a single powerful attack, applying energy resistance and bonuses on damage rolls only once. The bard can target all words at the same or different targets, but he unleashes all words simultaneously. Each word costs 1 round of bardic performance.” This change will be reflected in future errata.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I'm curious why it now costs 1 Bardic Performance per 4d6 instead of 1 performance for maximum wordage. Ah well, this version is definitely preferred! Thanks PDT/Paizo!My guess is they didn't want a bard just blasting every single round as a primary ability and want it to be a complimentary ability.
From experience in game play, 1 bardic performance round for 220+ damage at 12th level is way too much (especially when you can spend 600 gp and do it for a Move action leaving your Standard for an effective spell.)
reduction in attack rolls and removal of saving throws will surely be greatly appreciated by players and DMs alike.
I love their fix also, it seems to be better than any of the suggestions in terms of making a good ability and not requiring too many words to convey a clear understanding of how to use the ability.
1. Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot and Inspire Courage will not apply to the attack roll.
You would still add PBS/PS/IC (from a different bard than you) to the effect.
I'm curious why it now costs 1 Bardic Performance per 4d6 instead of 1 performance for maximum wordage. Ah well, this version is definitely preferred! Thanks PDT/Paizo!My guess is they didn't want a bard just blasting every single round as a primary ability and want it to be a complimentary ability.From experience in game play, 1 bardic performance round for 220+ damage at 12th level is way too much (especially when you can spend 600 gp and do it for a Move action leaving your Standard for an effective spell.)
Fair enough!
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1. Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot and Inspire Courage will not apply to the attack roll.You would still add PBS/PS/IC (from a different bard than you) to the effect.
As I recall, PBS and PS require a weapon and ranged touch is not a weapon. Rays are weapons, but not all Ranged Touch spells are rays. By the reading of this FAQ, Weird Words is not a ray. So no PBS and PS. Bard Song would apply to attacks but not damage. Again, they are not rays so they are not weapons.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Aww, just as I was about to go into Of Kirin and Kraken tomorrow. Well, guess I will just have to survive without the nuclear option somehow.
The nuclear option is stacking good hope, haste, and inspire courage on three or more melee heavies or archers. Even at its best, weird words could never beat that.
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Aww, just as I was about to go into Of Kirin and Kraken tomorrow. Well, guess I will just have to survive without the nuclear option somehow.The nuclear option is stacking good hope, haste, and inspire courage on three or more melee heavies or archers. Even at its best, weird words could never beat that.
That requires other characters, which is an unreliable proposition. Dropping the weird words bomb was something my bard could do alone at any time.
In any event, we were saved by the GM rolling low against a phantasmal killer spell.
@Wraith235 - DR isn't really an issue for Weird Words now that it has been changed to sonic damage.
Thanks to everyone in this thread for discussing the previous proposal. Thanks to you and your ideas, we have come up with a FAQ entry on weird words that speeds up gameplay compared to the original with several advantages over the previous proposal!
Bard: The sound striker’s weird words ability is confusing. Does it work more than once on the same target? And does it require 30 rolls to adjudicate?
Change the text of weird words to the following “At 6th level the bard can start a performance that is always a standard action to speak up to one word per 4 bard levels laden with sonic energy. Each word deals 4d6 points of sonic damage as a ranged touch attack with a range of 30 feet. The bard adds his charisma modifier on damage rolls with weird words. Multiple words that strike the same target stack into a single powerful attack, applying energy resistance and bonuses on damage rolls only once. The bard can target all words at the same or different targets, but he unleashes all words simultaneously. Each word costs 1 round of bardic performance.” This change will be reflected in future errata.
VERY nice! So 'bonuses on damage rolls' mean the ray-eligible feats still give damage bonuses? Would Verbose Performer extend the range of these to 60 feet? I think it does.
So what feats do people think are still needed to maximize Weirdwords? Though feat intensive, I really like Verbose Performer(requisites: Extra Performance, Master Performer) to allow a more sniper-like Soundstriker.
Well, a Danwflower Dervish/Sound Striker is probably your best option. Then, assuming the feats work, you want Point Blank/Precise Shot. Extra Performance/Master Performer/Verbose Performer/Grand Master Performer and Discordant Voice are all things you probably want as well.
By the time you can get the above (13th level without retraining), you should be sitting on either +8 or +10 (depending on the order of stacking and multiplication from Grand/Master Performer and Battle Dance) to hit and damage from your Battle Dance (via virtuoso performance). You're receiving 3 possible attacks from Weird Words meaning you can hit up to 3 targets for 4d6+8+Cha+1d6 each, or two targets with one taking 8d6+8+Cha+1d6 and the other 4d6+8+Cha+1d6 or all on a single target for 12d6+8+Cha+1d6, all of which is at a range of up to 60 ft, if they are within 30 ft. there's an additional +1 to hit and damage thanks to Point Blank Shot.
It's not phenomenally powerful by any means, but it's pretty useful. Especially since Dawnflower Dervish gives you free proficiency with Dervish Dance so you can even spend your 7th level feat (the only one left empty if you're a human) on Power Attack. Now you've got yourself a pretty respectable switch hitter that fights with the power of his voice.
One of the nice things about the new Weird Words is that you wouldn't really need to devote much to it to make it a very useful power. A typical melee build could probably get a lot of benefit out of having a ranged touch attack to fall back on even without any specific feats devoted to it. My Sound Striker used a dueling sword and a light shield, but I also like the idea of a Sound Striker with a reach weapon who uses Weird Words to provoke enemies into closing for melee and triggering an AoO.
One of the nice things about the new Weird Words is that you wouldn't really need to devote much to it to make it a very useful power. A typical melee build could probably get a lot of benefit out of having a ranged touch attack to fall back on even without any specific feats devoted to it. My Sound Striker used a dueling sword and a light shield, but I also like the idea of a Sound Striker with a reach weapon who uses Weird Words to provoke enemies into closing for melee and triggering an AoO.
Ha! That's a good one.
Some have asked will Wordstrike be addressed and my solution has just been to treat it like it's a Shatter spell. If you feel the need to limit the damage done to crystalline creatures, do so. Otherwise, I think it rather useless.
Also, thanks for the ideas, gents. If you come up with more, by all means, share please! This archetype actually got better, IMO.
Another feat: Spellsong, the 1st of the two options (combine casting with performance). Could a Sound Striker combine spellcasting with Weird Words? Particularly the finale spells. Ex: While using Weird Words (which is ALWAYS a standard action, correct?), he casts Deadly Finale which would instantly take effect at the conclusion of Weird Words. The only problem I see is the Perform check mentioned in the feat. Would that keep this from being a possibility? I know Deadly Finale is not the most impressive of Bard spells but it certainly fits thematically and would be an impressive finish to Weird Words.
Others that seem like fun to include would be dissonant chord, thunderous drums.
Does anyone have an opinion on this? I thought at least one of our resident Sound Striker archetype fans would chime in... Oh, a pun! Hehe.
I wonder if it isn't better to let this thread slip into history and start a new one with ideas on interesting builds for the "new" Sound Striker.
Thanks for the necro. I scrolled up to look for the FAQ and remembered how my post about never using Soundstriker again when they gave us a possible version got removed.
My thoughts remain the same, though if it's an errata it shouldn't be an FAQ. That's a bad habit they need to break.
I recall thinking that some of the Charisma focused spells seemed problematic in their own right. The Nereid's Grace nerf seems good to me.
Anyhow, while PDT took over a year and a half to finally come out with a decent compromise on Weird Words I think the final result seems pretty reasonable (with the possible exception of the Duettist being able to do double damage with Weird Words by having his or her familiar use it too)
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My thoughts remain the same, though if it's an errata it shouldn't be an FAQ. That's a bad habit they need to break.
They could send the fixes by carrier pigeon for all I care as long as we get them.
I recall thinking that some of the Charisma focused spells seemed problematic in their own right. The Nereid's Grace nerf seems good to me.
Anyhow, while PDT took over a year and a half to finally come out with a decent compromise on Weird Words I think the final result seems pretty reasonable (with the possible exception of the Duettist being able to do double damage with Weird Words by having his or her familiar use it too)
This won't happen - Harmonizing Familiar does nothing to Weird Words except burn through your performance rounds 3 times as fast. Doubling the effects of a performance is not listed as a benefit, only increasing the DC (which WW doesn't have) and increasing the competence bonus (which WW doesn't have.)
What you can do though is use Symphonic Familiar to have your familiar keep up inspire courage while you lash out.
You wouldn't use Harmonizing Familiar but Performing Familiar.
Performing Familiar (Su)
At 4th level, a duettist's familiar learns how to create supernatural effects with its performances, just like its master. The familiar can use any of its master's bardic performances, but only the familiar or the duettist can have a performance active at any given time, not both. If one is performing and the other starts a performance, the previous performance immediately ends. Each round that the familiar performs consumes 2 rounds of the duettist's bardic performance.
This ability replaces lore master.
I think it was Neume who pointed out this combo in another thread. I guess the idea is that the familiar would wait until you are done using Weird Words and then use it (say as a readied action). I'd rather not see Weird Words get used this way since the damage could get pretty high and the benefit of Performing Familiar would probably be greater than intended. Maybe there's a RAW technicality which would prevent it from working.
Oddly enough I hadn't thought of the Shadowbard angle. Since Shadowbard uses no rounds of bardic performance and Weird Words costs 1 round per Word I wonder if such a use would have any effect though. In a home game I'd probably rule that it wouldn't. Since I don't run PFS I guess that's the only answer I really "need", but it would be interesting to know the official stance on it.
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You wouldn't use Harmonizing Familiar but Performing Familiar.
I think it was Neume who pointed out this combo in another thread. I guess the idea is that the familiar would wait until you are done using Weird Words and then use it (say as a readied action). I'd rather not see Weird Words get used this way since the damage could get pretty high and the benefit of Performing Familiar would probably be greater than intended. Maybe there's a RAW technicality which would prevent it from working.Performing Familiar (Su)
At 4th level, a duettist's familiar learns how to create supernatural effects with its performances, just like its master. The familiar can use any of its master's bardic performances, but only the familiar or the duettist can have a performance active at any given time, not both. If one is performing and the other starts a performance, the previous performance immediately ends. Each round that the familiar performs consumes 2 rounds of the duettist's bardic performance.
This ability replaces lore master.
Ah, I thought you were saying they could use it at the same time. Yeah, they could use it separately, but as written the familiar is using its own Cha modifier, plus it is also burning additional rounds of performance per Word. So you could do this to squeeze out a little extra DPR in a burst. but you would run dry pretty quickly.