I'm still stuck with Jemma and Fitz in their heads. That was last season, I think.
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I'm not sure I needed a WHOLE episode of that, but it was fun. This was an episode for sure of Agents of Tomorrow/Legends of SHIELD.
And my obscure background character love goes to poor Olga and her one-sided crush on Roxy Glass. (I have a bad habit for falling in love with random background NPCs who have three lines. This ep hit me hard for that.)
Very intrigued for this coming week's episode based on the promo.
Random nerd fanwank thought:
So what if the Chronicoms just traveled to the Roughly One Week of Ultron, and joined forces with him?
I realize for many, mostly tv production and other reality-related issues, that would not be addressed, but what if?
I think then we'd have A REAL Age of Ultron...or at least something akin to Annihilation Conquest in the MCU.
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Random nerd fanwank thought:
So what if the Chronicoms just traveled to the Roughly One Week of Ultron, and joined forces with him?
I realize for many, mostly tv production and other reality-related issues, that would not be addressed, but what if?
I get the sense the Chronicoms don't want to share. And they'd view any other villain at best as a pawn like Hydra. Even Ultron being a machine it's still a flawed machine created by flawed humans, and not a Chronicom. At the same time, Ultron is powerful enough he'd be something the Chronicoms would rather prevent from happening rather than have to smack down.
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Random nerd fanwank thought:
So what if the Chronicoms just traveled to the Roughly One Week of Ultron, and joined forces with him?
I realize for many, mostly tv production and other reality-related issues, that would not be addressed, but what if?
I think they'd be in for a surprise, as his Mind Stone-derived malevolent presence manages to infiltrate their own AI network almost as easily as the human internet, and subverts them from within. (Or, at least, some of them. Sybil might be able to hold him off, or wall off a certain level of independence within them, but need to be rescued by some external force purging him from their systems.)
Then again, perhaps their AI coding is advanced enough to resist him completely, in which case, I suspect it would be open conflict. Ultron doesn't want to share, and I don't think the chronicoms are going to sit back and put up with his constant attempts at finding ways to subvert them into becoming yet more of his drones.
'One Week of Ultron.' Heh. Not much of an 'Age,' was it? :)
Eh. One week is like 20 months in some places. Also I think if Ultron can convert the Phalanax in the comics, I don't see why he couldn't comparably do the same to the Chronicoms.
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Eh. One week is like 20 months in some places. Also I think if Ultron can convert the Phalanax in the comics, I don't see why he couldn't comparably do the same to the Chronicoms.
It's seven weeks in dog-weeks!* Fear the Age of Dogtron!
*(Yes, I know that's not technically true.)
As a dog lover, I can attest; this isn't true since while dogs DO age more rapidly than humans, in general they still experience time the same way the rest of us do.
Also compressed time dilation is something to consider with Ultron. :P ;)
I really liked this story. I hope we see Jiaying again (seems like we will). May's development is getting good and I hope Ming-Na Wen had fun with working with what she was going through. YoYo had some good stuff too. I love that the ladies needed combat therapy and in the last episode the guys needed to get to a place where they could talk it out. This is healthy!
This said I had a ranty gripe about Sousa's gift from Simmons which I will spoiler as it's probably boring.
I am developing a bit of a beef with Marvel and amputation victims and treatment of the disabled.
In short I dislike that getting a limb lost is shorthand for "horrible wound that temporarily threatens the status of a character" but then is later magically solved through magical science and they don't deal with any long term consequences. I also dislike that it limits representation of disabled characters on television and treats traumatic injury as minor issues easily written off and solved.
This is complicated and I understand there's a lot of sides to how this should or shouldn't work. E.g., "In a world where such issues they should be fixed, shouldn't they be fixed?" vs treatment of traumatic injuries and disabilities on television in a way that can be affirming for viewers -- but there's a grey area between the two that isn't and doesn't get addressed enough, IMO.
Background: one of my prior jobs was editing research papers on, among other issues of extremity trauma, work done to rehabilitate and help amputees. I am not an expert on this issue the way an orthopedic surgeon, rehab worker, or psychologist would be, and definitely do not have the perspective of an amputee or other physically disabled person. However, through that work I am nonetheless acutely aware of the fact that limb trauma is... well, traumatic and addressing it is deeply complicated from both a physical and mental perspective.
I know that there is an issue of "realism" in these kind of shows where one will argue--look, they have the technology to make perfect prostheses, so why wouldn't they? And that's fair. And I think most amputees who if they were offered a free, state-of-the-art new limb they would probably take one. However, if you are going to be _realistic_, actually _realistic_, then you should also address the fact that getting a limb removed causes intense physical and mental trauma that takes a tremendous amount of time to address. The trauma surrounding the injury itself takes a huge amount of time to deal with--all of the pain, the sensations, and whatever events led to the amputation need a huge amount of mental and emotional processing that is ideally guided by professional assistance. Getting a perfect prosthetic doesn't remove that emotional trauma and adaptation, nor the understanding that your body is changed and will never ever be the same.
That they almost (and I do note almost) NEVER address this emotional trauma writes off the very real difficulties amputation victims go through. It minimizes and discounts their experiences, for the sake of the convenience of lazy storytelling. They can't be bothered to deal with half the cast having post injury PTSD so they just pretend it's never a thing. I find this extremely upsetting.
Secondly, even if perfect prosthetics were real, being "realistic" about it also would involve acknowledgement of physical therapy and rehab being necessary to adjust to and work with the new limb--including adjusting to the fact that even advanced neurofeedback technology that's still not the same limb that was there before; a human brain would need time to deal with that. I DO acknowledge that they worked with that with YoYo a fair amount--it took time for her to adjust to her new arms and deal with her injury. (They also did a fair job with this in Luke Cage with Misty's arm loss.) But just handing Sousa a new leg in the latest episode that seems to immediately work is a writeoff of the hugest proportions--it just screams "we're tired of making Enver limp and work with a cane" rather than actually caring about what it would really mean for him or entail.
This in turn screams to real amputees, "your stories are an inconvenience to us," which is the root of what really bothers me here.
Sousa's receiving a new leg this episode specifically bothers me in many ways:
- In Agent Carter Howard Stark actually offered Sousa a high-tech alternative to his prosthetic, which Sousa turned down. In fairness, part of the plot involved all of Howard's failed experiments which evil Russians were going to do horrible things with, so I can understand Sousa specifically mistrusting Howard on this, but this highlights a couple problems:
-- Simmons did not get Sousa's consent to be treated. It doesn't matter if it seems like a nice thing to do, you still get a patient's consent before providing treatment. If she just handed Sousa some pills to help him handle a veteran's PTSD without consulting with him first, would that not be problematic? I think the issue is similar here.
-- Mistrust of Howard's tech aside, Sousa didn't seem to want further treatment before--some people with disabilities for a variety of good reasons want to live with what they have rather than try new things that may help but could also cause issues. Granted, he is now on the run from Killer Robots from the Future, so his priorities may have shifted, but this again in ideal circumstances at least deserved a line of dialogue or two to address.
- As indeed was demonstrated by Yo Yo's story, it takes time and therapy to adjust to a new prosthetic, no matter how high tech. It would also take some work to be sure it fits the stump properly which I don't know how the hell she did without actually asking him and taking measurements (unless she also collected data on him without consent). And if there are any implants for neurofeedback, there may be issues of possible rejection. So just having him throw it on right before possibly skydiving feels majorly problematic for me.
- I don't expect them having to extensively deal with Sousa's psychological trauma regarding his injury--beyond his convo with Daisy a couple episodes ago, it is addressed to some extent in Agent Carter, and he has a lot of lines that address his working to come to terms with it. Nonetheless, this is a huge part of his character and it feels like they are writing it off, again, just because it's an inconvenience to them now and they don't feel like writing for an amputee anymore.
- And at the same time, he had some really insightful lines in Agent Carter about how he was treated as a disabled vet and how there are differences how he is treated versus those who only have mental scars. This was good stuff and a good piece of his character and it just again feels like they are getting rid of it--and thus a big part of his identity.
And yes, if you're disabled, that's part of your identity and needs to be addressed. And maybe that's the other big thing that bugs me--that they write off a lost limb like a paper cut, but it's a big deal that changes who you are and how you think about yourself, again no matter what technology can be used to improve your Quality of Life.
Amputation is a huge f$@!ing deal and it just bugs me that Marvel very frequently uses it as "big past injury" that is to become a footnote in a person's story, when realistically it such a thing has long-life-altering implications, which they discard for convenience's sake. This is disrespectful to the disabled in general and particularly disabled veterans and amputation victims.
Now, I know, I know, this is fantasy and wish fulfillment and all that. Still, I think given SO MANY PEOPLE are amputees in the Marvel universe, several of whom are on this show (in addition to Coulson and YoYo, now Sousa who was originally from Agent Carter and then in the movies we have Bucky and in Netflix Misty, ALL OF WHOM now have magical no problem-with-upkeep bionic limbs) I feel like there's a pattern that has developed that I find problematic.
That is all. (Now just don't get me started about how TV shows deal with head injuries....)
Way too much assuming how other people feel in that, IMO.
Also, it's supposed to be entertainment, not a documentary on how people deal with trauma.
Also while I'm not a fan of losing my limbs, getting an upgrade wouldn't be terrible for me. But that's just me.
Mostly I like that we now have another family member of Daisy's to deal with.
Way too much assuming how other people feel in that, IMO.
As noted, my "assumptions" are based on past experience reading extensive peer-reviewed research on the matter as well as other consuming other media on issues important to the disabled (and I will acknowledge even disabled individuals will highly disagree on such a subject). Yes, they are assumptions, but I'd appreciate the acknowledgement that it's not s@*% I'm making up to just be mad about something, it's from doing things like reading articles published in the Journal of Orthopaedic Trauma and editing case stories about people with extremity trauma.
Also, it's supposed to be entertainment, not a documentary on how people deal with trauma.
That was addressed in my post, which was clearly spoilered as a rant which you did not have to read if that sort of thing upsets you. I said many positive things about the episode and you could have responded to those or posted your own thoughts on the episode instead, which would have been as a bonus a far more effective way of dismissing me.
Thomas, where did I suggest it would be terrible? My main concerns involved issues of representation, consent, and acknowledgement of the importance of both mental and physical therapy in recovery.
Mostly I like that we now have another family member of Daisy's to deal with.
I'm intrigued by this but I am worried about the direction it is going to take. I'm also intrigued by the fact she may get a second chance with a less crazy version of her mother.
Well less crazy Jiaying would be nice....
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Well less crazy Jiaying would be nice....
I'm sure Jiaying would agree, given I'm guessing it would mean not getting carved up by Whitehall.
They could definitely hit a paradox where Daisy doesn't get born or gets a totally different life, but I believe they are indeed running with the idea that your own personal past cannot be altered, you're just creating new timelines for alternate versions of yourself.
Well less crazy Jiaying would be nice....I'm sure Jiaying would agree, given I'm guessing it would mean not getting carved up by Whitehall.
They could definitely hit a paradox where Daisy doesn't get born or gets a totally different life, but I believe they are indeed running with the idea that your own personal past cannot be altered, you're just creating new timelines for alternate versions of yourself.
That's definitely in keeping with Endgame.
Well I guess we'll see, especially since we don't have a clear idea just WHAT MCU multiverse MIGHT look like right now.
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Tonight's episode...
Wow. Just...wow.
I am so... so... SOOOOO.... tired of "Groundhog's Day" episodes (although Legends of Tomorrow's was admittedly fun)... but they did do a great job with a tired trope, and once they finally got to the meat during the tragic solution, there was some incredible acting and story development there. Of course this was a good story for Daisy as well.
I'm not sure how I feel about Daisousa, if only that it seems like Daniel is rebounding from Peggy and seeing Daisy as a replacement (although I acknowledge when he listed reasons he liked Daisy, he included things that were very specific to her; nonetheless he started by saying, basically, "you remind me of someone else I was close to.").
It also metauniversally feels weird, as the absolute BEST screen chemistry I've ever seen Enver Gjokaj have with anyone was with Dichen Lachman on Dollhouse, and she plays Daisy's mother. I fully understand that should have no bearing on these characters on the show, it's just my own brain weirdness having trouble wrapping my head around it.
But they do work well together. I hope that doesn't set him up to be killed off.
I am less concerned about Enoch's "prophecy," as it were, than Daisy. I expect it means
Most folks part ways to live their own happily ever afters, and/or that SHIELD will be shut down in lieu of starting SWORD.
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It also metauniversally feels weird, as the absolute BEST screen chemistry I've ever seen Enver Gjokaj have with anyone was with Dichen Lachman on Dollhouse, and she plays Daisy's mother.
Oh wow, I forgot that, and now kinda want to see Sousa meet Jiaying, just for the heck of it! Her squinting at him and saying, "Have we met?" and then just glossing over it and never mentioning it again could be a fun lampshade-hanging for those who've seen Dollhouse.
I'm convinced Sousa will end up saving the world and while DQ's suggestion/idea about a certain S.H.I.E.L.D. spin off group has merit...I'm not yet convinced MCU is ready for that.
Kinda hinted at with one of the Far From Home post-credit sequences already...
Remind me...?
Oh my things are not going well so far.
although I did enjoy Nathaniel realizing that he is a cheap knock off and the real thing is much MUCH more powerful and very very pissed off now.
very worried about Fitz though
Edgelord Malick is the one weak point of this season... he is a ridiculous, mustache-twirler of a villain in a season that's mostly had a lot of depth and character complexity. I need to rewatch the episode (I missed the beginning) but he's hard to put up with for long--I really enjoy a good villain; I don't enjoy him. Lots of good developments regardless.
Am I wrong or
Can't they straighten out Jiaying's neck and "feed" her and she'll come back? IIRC she was literally buried and chopped into pieces and was able to be brought back after being sewn together, she should be able to be brought back from this. When she WAS killed prior I know her neck was snapped as well, but IIRC they then burned her body to be sure she wasn't coming back.
All I know is this kind of thing isn't good for the multiverse or temporal continuity.
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All I know is this kind of thing isn't good for the multiverse or temporal continuity.
Makes me wonder if this is their way of explaining how any inconsistencies with AoS and the MCU movies can be explained? Maybe the entire show is from an alternate timeline, and this season's "breaking" the timeline actually puts them in the main MCU timeline for the first time?
I am less concerned about Enoch's "prophecy," as it were, than Daisy. I expect it means
** spoiler omitted **
I expect the prophecy to have something to do with this being the last season. I think that is a thing I heard right? This is the last season of AOS?
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All I know is this kind of thing isn't good for the multiverse or temporal continuity.Makes me wonder if this is their way of explaining how any inconsistencies with AoS and the MCU movies can be explained? Maybe the entire show is from an alternate timeline, and this season's "breaking" the timeline actually puts them in the main MCU timeline for the first time?
Eh, I'm sure we'll get some handwavium about splintered timelines along the stream of whatever "America's Ass"-verse where Loki escaped with the Tessaract or "Thanos never attacked Earth bc he was dead in the future"-verse end up having.
All I know is this kind of thing isn't good for the multiverse or temporal continuity.Makes me wonder if this is their way of explaining how any inconsistencies with AoS and the MCU movies can be explained? Maybe the entire show is from an alternate timeline, and this season's "breaking" the timeline actually puts them in the main MCU timeline for the first time?
Until now, there haven't been many inconsistencies, and Winter Soldier definitely affected AOS so they had to have been in that timeline (and moved to another one when project insight moved to 1976). Also I believe there are some connections to Age of Ultron with Fury showing up with the helicarrier.
But they are likely either just going to end in a timeline, or just noting this adventure has spun off many multiverses. (Or what archmagi said)
Vidmaster, yes this is the final season. But I was speaking to Daisy's devastation and noting that it doesn't mean the season/series ends in tragedy.
I was really impressed by their choice of actor for young!Bill Paxton. Easily looked like he could have been Garrett when he was younger and his voice sounded even closer.
I was really impressed by their choice of actor for young!Bill Paxton. Easily looked like he could have been Garrett when he was younger and his voice sounded even closer.
Well, the actor's name was James Paxton... :)
I sense a clue. :-)
I think you need to re-roll your sense motive again Ed... ;)
But yes, It was nice to see James channeling Dad for this episode.
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Last night continued to be solid. I liked a lot of the Daisy stuff, I liked Mack's dad-talk with Sousa, and May was just aaawesome.
I am annoyed however, that what has been largely a rich and deep season--even with it's silly fluff moments there's been some great stuff underneath--for the heroes, we are set at two penultimate bosses, Edgelord McNotQuake and Selfpity Splosionhands, who are the most boring, cookie-cutter, cliched, cartoon villains I have ever seen in the MCU. Whiplash and Davos look like the Kingpin and Kilgrave compared to these twits. Diamondback is more compelling. Hell, I'd rather watch the Hand in the Defenders than these losers. The only consolation is of course that the Final Boss is Sybil (or something Sybil does/creates) and she's pretty damn cool (and also I've loved that actress ever since she was on Bones).
The character interactions for the episode were solid. The villains do need some work though. Sousa and Daisy, Mack and Sousa; the little interactions that add to the show. Mack playing Dad and matchmaker was hysterical.
Eh. Far as I'm concerned, Not Gideon and Daisy's sister aren't much more than cannon fodder in my mind.
We'll see come the last two episodes if that's how it works out or not.
Also I keep waiting for them to just bring in Steve Rogers and Thor just for fun.
They're having faaaaar too much screentime for cannon fodder. That may be how the Chronicoms have been using them, but the camera's been on them way too much. They want us to "care" about these villains and their plotting and I just don't. I am especially bitter about both characters being the reason that both Jiaying appeared and then died--she was a far, far, more interesting and complex villain and to be nearly promised a return and possible redemption arc only for her to have the Plot Anvil fall on her neck is just b@~###~+. (Now if the Chronicoms had gone to a point where we had Daisy's dad and mom in their early b~$~@%$ evil days, and manipulated them, that would have been FASCINATING.) Meanwhile these characters get waaay more screentime? Not fair. Not fair at all.
Steve Rogers and Thor are not going to show up on Agents of SHIELD.
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Steve Rogers and Thor are not going to show up on Agents of SHIELD.
I'm expecting someone from the MCU movies to show up. Might be someone minor, might be someone not, but I have a feeling they pulled out all the stops for this. I wouldn't be surprised if Steve Rogers showed up even, since it could tie into his adventures in the alternate timelines returning the infinity stones. I'm not going so far to say I expect he will, but I wouldn't be surprised by anything tonight.
I would like it very much if a major (even if said major is minor in the MCU) would show up too.
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Unless I am deeply confused (which is entirely possible), she didn't blow the Earth to bits in one blow and never did. There was an alternate timeline where fake Kree news made some people on a ship in the far future believe that she did, but either Creepy Blonde Hydra Girl or General Gravity were actually responsible; in their own timeline they stopped them before that happened. The Earth is not blown up, it clearly exists in the main MCU timeline, so she would not be well known for doing something in the world she currently lives in that never happened?
Quake IS publicly known (the press is the one who named her Quake) but as a rogue Inhuman, so she's unlikely to be nominated for the Avengers.
And as for "why isn't she a major character?" I mean, what qualifies? I know you're saying in-universe, but let's look meta-wise first, she was a key character on a major tv show watched by millions for seven years. She has more screentime than the Avengers put together. We can argue about the sanctity of tv versus film if we want to engage in an exercise of nerdflipping tableragey nonsense, but if someone has watched both, they have watched far more of Daisy than they have of even Tony Stark. In-universe--she is a famous Inhuman, one-time Director of SHIELD, and general asswhupper. Quake IS a major character. Why doesn't she get namedropped in Endgame? Because she's not relevant to that plot
As for tonight's episode: still far too much of the Blunder Twins, but their fates were acceptable, and everything else was just lovely. Loved everyone's denouements. Not saying more so I don't spoil anything much.
I admit I would have liked a couple more cameos that we got, but at least we got the most important one.
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By that logic, I could argue that Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, and Captain Marvel aren't major characters because they weren't involved in rescuing the planet from the Chronicoms--a larger threat specifically to the Earth than Thanos, because Thanos only killed half the population (ultimately temporarily), while the Chronicoms were going to wipe the entire population out (the reason they went to great lengths to end SHIELD first was because they saw SHIELD as originating force who could stop them from doing so).
As I noted, even if the Avengers are aware of her, she's only known publicly as a rogue entity whose total power level is not actually known (they would have no idea about the alternate timeline where people believed she blew up a planet, which she didn't actually do)--it's highly unlikely they'd contact her for help. She's not relevant because she's not an Avenger who doesn't know much about Thanos outside his name, so there's no reason or way she could get involved with that particular story, not because she is unimportant. She also saved the world from impending doom. That makes her important.
In any Marvel Universe, there are almost always multiple crises happening at any one point. That is always the answer to the "why wasn't so and so there?" Because they have other world-ending impending doom to prevent. That, and not everybody knows everybody else--or trusts that they will handle the other problems while they tackle the one in front of them. Expecting otherwise is frankly stupid and a waste of time.
There are rumors--only rumors, mind--Quake may appear again in a SWORD series also featuring Nick Fury.
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The writers clearly took a lot of time to think about what would be good endings for all the characters.