Probably a better post for the Endgame thread than this one, Vid, unless it has to do with why AOS is in the setting it's in.
As for your response to me, if you read my post carefully, the thing I said pulls directly from what Endgame's writers said. The problem is it is now unclear because Word of Gods (directors vs writers) disagree on the impact. But Markus and McFeeley say it was NOT an alternate timeline. No matter how the logic of the universe was explained, the script writers had an entirely different intention. And the script writers have more authority on the subject than you do. Now, again, the directors say something different. All that means is that everything is uncertain, and Marvel creatives aren't on the same page on how their universe works. Which bodes "well" for the future.
Perhaps, getting back on subject, this is why AOS decided to increasingly deal with alternate timelines and possibilities. Because trying to tie in to a fracturing franchise where you can't get a straight answer from the highups is just too frustrating. Better to carve your own niche.
Well... I LOVE Time travel movies.. and I love Marvel, but honestly it was one of the WORST time travel 'rules' that I'd ever seen. Considering I STILL love the movie so much... just goes to show how awesome it was in all other respects.
Writers may have written it... but the director's are the ones who pieced it together and created the actual project shown to us... and by their own rules... I have to say alternate reality. I just can't picture ANY scenario where Cap lives quietly and keeps his head down for decades while bullies and evil threaten the world. It just wouldn't happen. In my head canon, Peggy AND Steve started SHIELD and he was an awesome superhero... and the only evidence I would have would be the 'extra' shield. It had to come from someplace else.
Now the real question I have... is what does that mean for AOS. I don't believe that THEIR history was affected by Endgame... but they JUST did a time breaking event of their own and now I'm curious if THEY are in an alternate universe? If they're still in the 5 year gap... some mention of the 'snap' should be mentioned somewhere... AoS has always done a great job tying in with the MCU... but this season is sticking out like a sore thumb.
Snapping aside
I am very much enjoying the new season. The Shrike are legitimately scary as far as I am concearned. Plus Sarge has a fun group of guys
I like that we are tieing it all in with the monolyths and I am curious as to who the Big Bad is behind these Shrikes
Grey,
Well there a couple possibilities...but I'm kind of leaning towards either Kang, the Living Monolith, or else the Klyntar.
Not sure about that...only that I'm waiting to see if they can turn this season around like they did with Graviton/Glenn Talbot.
That was a ballsy move I thought.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I'm enjoying it so far. I fully expect that the back half of the season will be even better, once they reveal what the Shrike really are, have the team reunited, and potentially use Marvel time travel/multiverse logic to explain how AoS actually doesn't break the MCU by being a year into the Snap without the Snap having happened.
Joel,
Cause reasons maybe? I just hope the Shrike tie into some semi-recognizable Marvel Comic villain or alien race.
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I wish they would alternate more super hero's through out the show. The ghost rider episodes where some of my absolute favorite.
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I wish they would alternate more super hero's through out the show. The ghost rider episodes where some of my absolute favorite.
I'll agree with THAT. My favorite core concept of Agents of SHIELD was that they were operating in MCU dealing with problems that the Avengers don't. Ghost Rider, Blackout, Absorbing Man, etc. etc. was why I watched the show... that and Coulson. Random space adventures and Kree… is not what I like from my SHIELD show.
This season is a mixed bag. I'm enjoying the Evil Coulson storyline quite a bit.... but the Fitz-Simmons in Space is tedious. Hopefully they wrap up that little bit, get everyone on the same planet and we can get focused on a good story again. I'm 90% sure that the whole 'Fitz is dead we need to search the heavens for other fitz' was just clean up from last season. They didn't know if they were getting renewed and left that as an open ended cliffhanger in case they didn't. A way to kill a main character without Actually killing anyone... Same thing with killing Coulson. If they had known they were going to be renewed, I don't think they'd have killed him. It was just a shot at 'closure' for what looked like the series finale. It started with his resurrection, it ends with his death kind of thing.
All I know is I'm hopeful the Darkhold will get more mentions in the MCU...maybe.
Everything seems wrapped up too easily...
Everything seems wrapped up too easily...
How so? We know from next week's preview that
Or she is hitch-hiking inside him, hence him being sleepy.
I mean she is a "demon"...so presumably she has some abilities beyond shrike control
I missed the sneak preview apparently.
7 Seasons isn't bad.
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I'm pretty sure ** spoiler omitted **
Calling it now: Sarge is the avenue by which Phil Coulson will be brought back on the show, in a manner similar to the Ilia-probe from Star Trek TMP.
so... that was one heck of an info dump.
Damn that Body jumping power is nasty to deal with. Was thinking of running some M&M soon and I'm going to have to remember that one
also LOL
"Dead you thought it was a fear dimension"
"Yes well he wasn't the smart one was he"
IT reminds me of the Denzel Washington movie whose name I can't place. "Fallen" maybe?
We suffered a power interruption just before the end of tonight's episode; DVR got everything up to "We'll return in a moment" right before the last commercial break. Anything happen when they came back, or was it just the preview for next week?
My brain is giving me the silent treatment -- at the moment I can't recall the last thing before that commercial break. I guess I can watch it on demand if it doesn't come back to me.
I guess while this is end...it's only the beginning in some ways.
Huh. With the new season going (and very cool, I might add) I figured this thread would be back up and running. Oh well.
Great episode tonight, loved the film noir tribute with Daniel Sousa. The time travel with the time appropriate titles and action is really well done. I hope they keep up the quality!
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Well if they don't they can't fix it next season Feros. :)
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Feros, FYI I saw your post before the episode aired in my time zone. Please be mindful of spoilers. :)
Definitely excellent quality season so far.
Aw, I'm glad Sousa gets a second chance. As soon as they showed him face down I'm like, hmm, bet they save him and add him to the team. And they did! While I honestly thought he was a little bland at times on Agent Carter, he had his positive points and I'm still glad to see him and glad to see he has a future. Glad at least someone on that cast is getting a chance to flesh out where their character would have gone.
What's weird is I have a half written fanfic (more an outline really) where he dies in 1955--killed by Hydra! I didn't come up with the specifics, it was just a plot point I had mapped out. Totally a coincidence, just funny it's the same year!
Feros, FYI I saw your post before the episode aired in my time zone. Please be mindful of spoilers. :)
Definitely excellent quality season so far.
** spoiler omitted **
Sorry, DQ! I sometimes forget just how much time there is between when I can watch and Americans can! :)
So I guess now the question is how the 70s will treat our newest member of the team...and how much more time travel will be involved.
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I am really enjoying Marvel's Legends of Tomorrow quite a bit. ;)
They seem to be jumping 20 years, so probably a couple eps in 1973 and a couple eps in the 1990s. I'm trying to calculate the likelihood they somehow could afford Annette Bening for a cameo....
There is a fan theory that the new team member will stay in the 2010s and become a police officer.
DQ,
I find that latter theory unlikely. But do I agree, we need a few more MCU cameos.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Last night's episode was fantastic. Loved how the Chronicoms completely changed the game (and also continued to love the opening credits morphing to fit the times - the 70s was the best so far!)
As for cameos, looking forward to when they hit the 1990s as that will likely overlap with Captain Marvel. I don't expect another Samuel Jackson Agents of SHIELD cameo, but somehow expect they'll do something to connect with the movie.
Another thought I had is that with the changes to the timeline, combined with Endgame's time travel rules, I wonder if Agents of SHIELD is actually now in one of the alternate timelines created in the movie, and could have some cool Easter eggs with say the Loki series, or with whatever timeline Captain America "retired" in.
Indeed, really good episode. And agreed--BEST CREDITS. Of all the things that have changed in the 21st century, that we have few good opening credits to save time for ads is sad (the three contemporary (less than 10 years old) good opening credits (for their respective genres) I can think of are all on Netflix which doesn't have ads, and often get skipped).
I know they try to be careful about overlap to avoid contradiction, but if Coulson doesn't mention something about Project Pegasus at least it would seem really odd since he's in that movie. I've been wondering that since Insight got pushed ahead so far if Pegasus got shelved--because IIRC Insight required the Tesseract to power it--and if so, what happened to Mar-vell (and the invisible space station floating around Earth).
But if Pegasus got shelved there's eventually no Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel, which means the Avengers doesn't form in the same way and there's no one to rescue Tony Stark in space. Which means they're in a timeline where Thanos wins.
And I would think the *Chronicoms* would avoid that... unless that's part of their goal?
If the Chronicoms don't want to avoid let that happening, and SHIELD does futzing with the timeline themselves to stop the Avengers from forming, would the Chronicoms have to backpedal?
I think at this point the Chronicoms plans are a bit wonky and there's a very good chance we're in a "Thanos Wins" timeline.
But then again, I want to see King Thanos. :P
But if Thanos wins, he will just be Farmer Thanos. (Which is, as far as I know, consistent with the comics.)
This is one of those things where the Marvel Multiverse starts to crumble---meta-wise, it's understandable not all production teams are on the same page, and we know the SHIELD folks didn't know the plot of Endgame until late.
But the irony is if we assume SHIELD was in 2018 when they began time jumping, the Chronicoms--who seem to have someone who has some degree of ability to predict the future--could have instead fled SHIELD and then just come back after the Snap (which was imminent), then picked off SHIELD and overtaken Earth to make it its new home while the world was in post-snap Chaos. The world was a mess and the Avengers separated and demoralized and it's quite likely they could have overtaken things with little trouble. However, I am inclined to blame the creators of Endgame for how sloppily they really considered the ramification of the plot direction they chose on how the world would really work, than SHIELD for not plotting in that direction. Besides, now that I think of it, Fury would still have summoned Captain Marvel and she could dispatch the Chronicoms easily----maybe indeed what they are aiming for is an Avengers-less world, and you need to destroy SHIELD to prevent the Avengers from happening.
DQ,
It's semi-consistent at times. Though I'm still of a mind that Donny Cates' run on Thanos was and is epic. Thusly King Thanos rules.
Adding spoilers as I got to see it early! :D
The changes that keep coming with the death of Mack's parents was harsh. The writers seem to be going for broke.
Finally Mack and Deke stuck in the eighties...with Coulson as MAX HEADROOM!!! Really looking forward to "The Totally Excellent Adventures of Mack and The D" next week! :D
On another note: the ratings keep dropping. I will never understand this show: It's quality seems to be in direct inverse proportion to its ratings. What is wrong with people?!?
Only by a little. It's still scoring the lowest ratings of all seven seasons.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Only by a little. It's still scoring the lowest ratings of all seven seasons.
Moving to summer is going to cause a drop in the ratings. Not a fair comparison between S1-5 and S6-7 therefore. Also, think that the fact that it's know to be not coming back also limits audience to those who are die hards. It also doesn't help that the whole implosion of Marvel TV unit and that the new Marvel TV shows on D+ are much more integrated with the movies.
Also, the numbers in the article I linked were overnight, not the +7 days from DVRs in the next week. So have to make sure you're comparing the same ratings numbers from one season to the next.
Look even IF the rating were higher, it doesn't mean they'll give another season...
Also I still feel bad for Gabriel Luna since he was a great Ghost Rider.
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Not sure if you're joking, Thomas. This is the last season of SHIELD. It is both called "the Final mission" and official marketing repeatedly calls it the final season of the series. It's not going to get renewed. It's done. This is it.
This is a truly weird time to schedule a new show starting, and I expect ratings are low because many don't even realize it's on, save the truly diehard fans. It's also been waaay too long since the end of the last season and many intrigued by the cliffhanger probably forgot about it.
Ironically, I would expect the show is actually doing better than it would have because more people are home due to the coronavirus. There's probably also a lot of folks watching it on Hulu the next day or waiting to binge it in one pop, which won't get counted in Nielsens.
I am too lazy too dig up sources at the moment, but various things both implied and stated have given me the impression ABC hates having Marvel(or other genre) shows on it and fought to cancel SHIELD; Marvel had to get people upstairs at Disney to force them to keep it. Agent Carter, which suffered major scheduling shenanigans during season 2 (was on in February during a mid season break, its premiere date got pushed back due to a State of the Union address which further confused people about when it was starting), one of its rival shows was Dancing with the Stars (or some other wildly popular show on another network), and then several, but not all, episodes were doubled up without a lot of advertising or warning, so people would tune in one week and realize they somehow missed an episode and would be totally lost, so then stopped watching. Interviews with Hayley Atwell and others specifically suggest the VP of the channel wanted to get the show stopped and pushed the role for Atwell in "Conviction" to help silence objections from Marvel/Disney. (And while yes, Agent Carter's season 1 rating dropped over time, they were still far, far higher than most CW superhero shows, so it was successful for the genre--and even though it always aired off-season.) Likewise "Marvel's Most Wanted" with Mockingbird and Hunter was never greenlit, despite the fact that before this was announced, everyone seemed to think it was a shoe-in for picking up. I got the sense that (please bear in mind I could be making this up), Marvel had to fight tooth and nail just to keep AOS and Most Wanted and Agent Carter were sacrificed instead. Apparently ABC has always chafed at even keeping SHIELD (even though I'm sure they could earn buckets on merchandising alone if they wanted), and it was agreed between Marvel and ABC this would be the last season. I am sure scheduling it to be in the dead of summer when nobody is watching TV was all ABC just hoping to be sure it got buried and stayed buried.
Indeed, the fact that Disney+ is the new home for Marvel shows isn't just about Disney trying to make money off of exclusivity (I mean, of course it is). For Marvel TV in particular, it's also about escaping contract shenanigans with other companies and never knowing how many seasons you're going to get to tell a story. They never have to fight a network for a show again, or fail to be able to distribute it via another network in syndication/streaming. They can just make and show what they want. Marvel seems keen on having specific stories they want to tell and faith they will do reasonably well (and why shouldn't they have that)--why fight idiot networks and streaming outlets (looking at you, Netflix) when you have a parent company that can give you your own streaming outlet? While I am sure shows still have to be pitched and accepted by those who operate the channel, it's all likely a lot easier to manage.
I was joking, DQ, yes. I'm aware and I'm glad that Marvel will have its own way of doing its own thing finally.
I was joking, DQ, yes. I'm aware and I'm glad that Marvel will have its own way of doing its own thing finally.
This falls into the "tone is hard to read on the internet," category. I am glad not to be the bearer of sad tidings!
Also on the episode...
Ah yes, Feros, I was so delighted Nathaniel got exactly what he wished for!
How many of us think Deke is going to be able to keep the secret he's been entrusted with?
Yeah, me neither.
It was awful what Mack went through but it's clear that the Chronicoms are going for playing head games.
The upshot is, this means they are desperate.
I wonder if...
... the fact that now Chronicoms can transfer personalities/memories if that will backfire on them. Like, even if they themselves do not fear death, but feel a human's fear of pain/death/losing people they care about, will that start to affect them? IIRC the way Chronicoms work is if one body is destroyed, their minds get downloaded into a new body. So there's gonna be a new Chronicom body with Mack's mom's memories, who also remembers seeing her heartbroken son kill her, how that is going to affect her. The easy answer may be that no of course they are mentally superior and can suppress all emotion... but I'd rather see the result of the complicated answer, which could make them simultaneously more easily manipulated but also more dangerous.
Especially as Chronicoms experiencing human memory can see both the lengths of their good experiences as well as the bad--to the lengths they will go to achieve something they want in their short lifespans. It's easy to feel smug when you just look at a species as a whole and go, well, they're short lived so the only thing they must fear is death. And then realize it's way more complicated than that.
Imagine a Chronicom who steals a Black Widow's identity/face/memories. And they memory-experience this awful, awful childhood and the sheer brutal calculating nature of the Soviet military complex. I mean, they may scoff at how much better they are at running empires but also realize... ah, no, humans can beat each other into being unfeeling machines too. And being an unfeeling machine... who in turn learns how to feel what it's like to feel and then be forced from there back to become an unfeeling machine who isn't really an unfeeling machine, just a sociopath who is trying to survive and suppress their own sense of self constantly... does that affect their personality matrix? Or at least go, "man, humans are still weak, but scarier monsters than I expected nonetheless"?
This new cliffhanger was quite fascinating. Very curious to see where everyone is going to turn up.
Nope DQ, I was fully aware this was the last season. I had hopes for another before the announcement. Now I'll just settle into D+ for my Marvel needs.
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Colson as Max Headroom, oh man I am looking forward to the next one.
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YES!!!
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All I care about is we got the shotgun axe back in action. :)
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"Can you help me, I am Lost!"
"I think it's a trick"
OMG that was the best episode this season