No, he already has two mythic feats: improved initiative and vital strike.
While reworking Soltengrebbe I noticed he has 6 feats. As a 9HD creature, he should have only 5.
Mythic tier 4 probably explains that extra feat (or even two), or have you accounted for that?
I've not read it's stat block that closely, so I'm not sure.Edit: ninja'd, and proven wrong.
Thanks James! I asked because there is no apparent reason for him to have a bonus feat. I'll keep it, of course!
Alright, need some opinions on this one...
The party has decided to redeem one of the gargoyles found in the chapel on the way to Drezen. They basically knocked it out, tied it up, and spent time roleplaying with it trying to convince it why to join the crusade...and followed that with a 40 diplomacy check (he rolled a 20).
I let it happen, though am considering whether it should betray them (really not fond of the idea), have it run away at the first chance, or how to handle this exactly. It's...obviously extremely strange and not sure how NPCs should be reacting or how it should play out. Thoughts?
Note: Aron was with them and watched this. He was extremely doubtful and flabbergasted when the managed to convince it.
Important question: Should I grant them one of the medals for this? I'm not sure the gargoyle would count on the side of the 'worldwound' or what have you for the purposes of the medal. Ideas?
I would let it happen. They actually spent time trying to redeem the gargoyle and since redemption is part of the overall theme of this AP I would say it might even give them some relevant information about Drezen itself. Reward creative role playing and creative problem solving is something I believe should be encouraged.
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I would let it happen as well. I have been very happy with this redemption theme in the AP. It fits my player's mind sets. They love finding ways to redeem monsters or NPCs so we have a new ally or simply for the challenge of it.
I find it amusing to see who they will redeem and who they will not. So far in this APThey have taken 2 random tieflings and worked on them. They also managed to convince Faxon to join them. They failed on Jeslyn and Orthirubo. I'm waiting to see who else they work on to join their side.
Will let it work then likely. Plus makes a pretty cool ally. We haven't had another session since unfortunately due to conflicting schedules. That said, I do have another thing I'd love some input on:
The question is...how does Nurah react to this and in what ways does she continue hindering the party/army? They have not suspected her in the slightest yet (and Aron had no idea where the shadowblood came from and they believed him).
Thinking of maybe having her contaminate some of the supplies to weaken the army or cause them to lose some, but uncertain thus far.
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Acts of sabotage are well within her purview before you make it to Drezen, so you could give the party daily perception checks to find her breaking stuff and/or handing out additional supplies that increases the Consumption of the moving army by 1d2 a day after her gambit with Aron failed.
Thinking it must be. There was no encounter there to speak of when the pass through...
Anybody got a good picture for Maranse Delaskru (the guy the succubus Kirana is impersonating)? The book doesn't provide one and I think my players might get even a tad more suspicious than they already will be if I don't have a picture for him.
Hadn't actually considered that, but good point. Will have to find something for it.
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Also, I need some clarification on the mass combat rules.
If you choose Aggressive or Reckless you get both a +OM bonus and a straight up + damage bonus?
While the tieflings and dretch armies on the way to Drezen won't be very aggressive, the Drezen armies themselves likely will be.
The PC army only has 16 HP. Aggressive armies can do some major damage in one round to the PC party. I guess that's to force healing, but wow.
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so im not too in love with the mass combat system. im about to try it this weekend. my problem is it dosnt involve all my players. it seems to give the fight to 1 person. i wish the system was more like star wars saga edition rpg starship battles it gave everyone a role to play for battles. im afraid my non army controling players will be bord.
My first three mass combat battles were over in one round. The leader of the army rolled 17, 15, 16.
I hadn't considered letting them round robin control it...that's a good idea.
Creative Director
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but what was it? just curiousThe empty town of Valas's Gift is listed as a CR3. Cut content?Cut for space... and because it didn't really add much to the adventure. Just ignore the "CR 3" reference.
I can understand curiosity, but I don't wanna get in the habit of revealing all the changes that a manuscript goes through during development. There's just not enough time in the day.
That said... it was basically a roleplaying encounter where the PCs had to convince the townsfolk to either fortify or to relocate to Kenabres for the time being for safety. Nothing big. No combats at all.
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but what was it? just curiousThe empty town of Valas's Gift is listed as a CR3. Cut content?Cut for space... and because it didn't really add much to the adventure. Just ignore the "CR 3" reference.I can understand curiosity, but I don't wanna get in the habit of revealing all the changes that a manuscript goes through during development. There's just not enough time in the day.
That said... it was basically a roleplaying encounter where the PCs had to convince the townsfolk to either fortify or to relocate to Kenabres for the time being for safety. Nothing big. No combats at all.
Has anyone ever posted a thread or made an article on what goes into making an adventure path? I love behind the scenes features.
I can see that mass combat may go quickly but I wondered if there was ever talk of making it party inclusive or was it was it always thought of as a single commander mechanic?
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Creative Director
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but what was it? just curiousThe empty town of Valas's Gift is listed as a CR3. Cut content?Cut for space... and because it didn't really add much to the adventure. Just ignore the "CR 3" reference.I can understand curiosity, but I don't wanna get in the habit of revealing all the changes that a manuscript goes through during development. There's just not enough time in the day.
That said... it was basically a roleplaying encounter where the PCs had to convince the townsfolk to either fortify or to relocate to Kenabres for the time being for safety. Nothing big. No combats at all.
Has anyone ever posted a thread or made an article on what goes into making an adventure path? I love behind the scenes features.
I can see that mass combat may go quickly but I wondered if there was ever talk of making it party inclusive or was it was it always thought of as a single commander mechanic?
Making a more robust mass combat game that is PC inclusive isn't something we've really had the opportunity or room or time to develop yet.
Well, Brandons troops system from Reign of Winter seem to be an excellent concept to expand upon for that.
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Creative Director
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Well, Brandons troops system from Reign of Winter seem to be an excellent concept to expand upon for that.
Perhaps! It's not something we'll be using in Wrath of the Righteous though. I considered it... but time constraints prevent me from including troop battles in the adventure path, unfortunately.
One thing I have considered is crafting an enemy group for the PCs to be fighting during the greater battle. If the PCs are prevailing, their army is prevailing. If they are failing, their troupe is losing. In essence, their mythic potency is leaking out into the battle around them so that when they are winning, their allies are likewise.
The problem, of course, is crafting enemy forces that are of the same level of power as what they'd be facing as a military force. I'm not sure how to turn the military units into CR to build an enemy team for the PCs to face. Though it's a moot point as it is starting to look unlikely I'll be able to run this with a new group; no one's signed up for it. *shrugs* There's always the tabletop group when they eventually during the next ice age have finished up with Reign of Winter....
Well, Brandons troops system from Reign of Winter seem to be an excellent concept to expand upon for that.Perhaps! It's not something we'll be using in Wrath of the Righteous though. I considered it... but time constraints prevent me from including troop battles in the adventure path, unfortunately.
That's really too bad, especially since it partially seemed designed to keep lower level opponents relevant at higher levels (kind of like the squad system from the Star Wars Saga Edition Clone Wars Campaign Guide) and it would have been cool to see swarms of low-level demons trying to take the party down. Oh, well, I'm sure you'll have come up with other great things. :)
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Creative Director
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That's really too bad, especially since it partially seemed designed to keep lower level opponents relevant at higher levels (kind of like the squad system from the Star Wars Saga Edition Clone Wars Campaign Guide) and it would have been cool to see swarms of low-level demons trying to take the party down. Oh, well, I'm sure you'll have come up with other great things. :)Well, Brandons troops system from Reign of Winter seem to be an excellent concept to expand upon for that.Perhaps! It's not something we'll be using in Wrath of the Righteous though. I considered it... but time constraints prevent me from including troop battles in the adventure path, unfortunately.
There's a lot of things that make using troops tricky... not the least of which is that there needs to be a large area for them to be encountered in.
But yeah... the rest of the AP is really more focused on the PCs and smaller-scale battles for the most part. Turns out... the more mythic things get, the more work it is to keep that all in control; adding newer stuff like troop rules would cause lots of problems on the time we have to develop things and the like, and wouldn't really add much in my opinion to the plot as it has always been planned out.
To say nothing of not being sure how we'd cram the troop rules in there again in a high level adventure that's already very tight on space...
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Creative Director
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James, while you obviously can't use the rule subsystems from it have you read Noonan's Heroes of Battle? The battlefield as a dungeon concept is the best way to involve PCs imho.
We've used rules inspired by that book pretty much from the start. All of the things like "Trust points" and the like are variations on those rules, to a certain extent.
There's a lot of things that make using troops tricky... not the least of which is that there needs to be a large area for them to be encountered in.
But yeah... the rest of the AP is really more focused on the PCs and smaller-scale battles for the most part. Turns out... the more mythic things get, the more work it is to keep that all in control; adding newer stuff like troop rules would cause lots of problems on the time we have to develop things and the like, and wouldn't really add much in my opinion to the plot as it has always been planned out.
To say nothing of not being sure how we'd cram the troop rules in there again in a high level adventure that's already very tight on space...
Ah, yes. I can definitely see your point there. You know well that one of my mayor concerns for this AP is if the high-level fights will be sufficently challenging for mythic characters, so introducing additional sub-systems would of course make the whole process even more problematic. Well, I'm looking forward to what you guys came up with. :D
so with radiance being upgraded and such, is it considered a legendary item already? or does it have to be upgraded once to be come legendary like any normal item?
thank you, but whats the point of upgradable if you cant upgrade radiance?
thank you, but whats the point of upgradable if you cant upgrade radiance?
Radiance upgrades on it's own as the AP progresses as certain things are done to a +5 Holy Avenger. That's why you can't upgrade it on it's own
thank you, but whats the point of upgradable if you cant upgrade radiance?The ability to upgrade a legendary weapon's enhacnements is only one of MANY legendary weapon choices.
right, i found them all in the back of the mythic book. What I'm wondering is why does radiance have the upgradable ability if you can't upgrade it? But Trawetes said its because of the holy avenger and im assuming he's not wrong?
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Creative Director
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Radiance has the Upgradable because it is. However, it's specifically tied to in game actions rather than paying cash to do so.
Yup; this is the right of it.
It just has a story-based upgrade path that's hardwired into the adventure.
If you as the GM want it instead to be normally upgradable as a legendary weapon, that's fine—you should just not have it upgrade when the PC accomplishes those events in the adventure. One or the other... not both.
Ah, yes. I can definitely see your point there. You know well that one of my mayor concerns for this AP is if the high-level fights will be sufficently challenging for mythic characters, so introducing additional sub-systems would of course make the whole process even more problematic. Well, I'm looking forward to what you guys came up with. :DThere's a lot of things that make using troops tricky... not the least of which is that there needs to be a large area for them to be encountered in.
But yeah... the rest of the AP is really more focused on the PCs and smaller-scale battles for the most part. Turns out... the more mythic things get, the more work it is to keep that all in control; adding newer stuff like troop rules would cause lots of problems on the time we have to develop things and the like, and wouldn't really add much in my opinion to the plot as it has always been planned out.
To say nothing of not being sure how we'd cram the troop rules in there again in a high level adventure that's already very tight on space...
How far into this AP is your group, Magnus? I'm curious how groups do with combat against the chimera vs the role playing aspect of discovering the traitor and redeeming.
Only in the first module and there still in the ruins of Kenabres. It's all still a long ways off. ^^
Radiance has the Upgradable because it is. However, it's specifically tied to in game actions rather than paying cash to do so.Yup; this is the right of it.
It just has a story-based upgrade path that's hardwired into the adventure.
If you as the GM want it instead to be normally upgradable as a legendary weapon, that's fine—you should just not have it upgrade when the PC accomplishes those events in the adventure. One or the other... not both.
awesome! tyvm james
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Only in the first module and there still in the ruins of Kenabres. It's all still a long ways off. ^^
My group should be coming out of the Kenabres underground Thursday. I'm tailoring 'random' encounters for them. Hello, one fiendish giant vulture carrying a little boy to become a meal.
They're entirely too far off as well, even though I'm already building out book 3 in roll20 for them. LOL
Only in the first module and there still in the ruins of Kenabres. It's all still a long ways off. ^^My group should be coming out of the Kenabres underground Thursday. I'm tailoring 'random' encounters for them. Hello, one fiendish giant vulture carrying a little boy to become a meal.
They're entirely too far off as well, even though I'm already building out book 3 in roll20 for them. LOL
I'm moving to a new city so I can't start this AP yet. I guess it's a good thing because I can get some cool ideas of these boards, ill know the full story before I start and be able to get the minis but I REALLY want to run this. So I'm jealous.
Regarding the paladin army. I think my players will want to use them outside the mass combat situations. They will roleplay it, and think how their characters would react to having an army as traveling companions.
They will look at the 100 paladins and go "We should bring 10-15 of them when we explore the Lost Chapel over there". And if the camp is attacked during the night, they will probably want to wake up some people :).
I can of course tell them that the army is to be used in mass combat only, but that would be bad for the suspension of disbelief.
My players will probably want to explore things on their own, so they can use their abilities (not the least their shiny new mythic ones). But they will need a plausible in-game excuse to do so. And why they can't put the armor of killed paladins to good use in the fight against demons.
The Lost Chapel can only be reached by making DC 15 Climb checks, if I remember correctly, so that would perhaps serve as explanation for not bringing extra help. And an ambush in the night could highlight the PCs' encounter, while they hear fighting going on elsewhere in the camp.
How would you handle this?
How would you handle this?
I'd drive home just how dangerous the Worldwound can be for small groups of low-level NPCs by hitting them with extra encounters that didn't focus so much on picking fights with the mythic PCs as taking apart their 10-15 soldiers. And, after killing off those 3rd level paladins, I'd inflict a couple of permanent points of damage to their army to reflect the loss of those units.
Then, out of character, I'd have a conversation with the players about the nature of the game and particularly this adventure. Non-mass combat encounter design in these adventures is prepared with an average party level in mind. And, when they decide to take what amounts to 10-15 low-level cohorts with them into encounters that are designed for high-level mythic PCs, they're essentially leading those NPCs to their doom. Wrath of the Righteous calls for heroes to lead by example and accomplish things the rest of the crusaders can't. That means there'll be situations where they'll need to leave the army behind. Those low-level NPCs have safety in numbers (i.e., as an army). But when they're broken up into smaller units of 10-15, they lose that defense entirely.
The bottom line is that while suspension of disbelief needs to create credible situations for it to occur, it's also a cooperative exercise between a storytelling GM and players who want to take an active role in shaping that story, too. So, sit them down early and let them know the kinds of scenes where you'll need their help. The safety and protection of their troops should be foremost on their minds. So, they shouldn't be leading a bunch of low-level soldiers into an ambush that would challenge mythic PCs. In addition, the responsibility of using their mythic abilities should weigh on them. By occasionally pulling away from their army, they can draw attention to themselves rather than their soldiers and deal with problems where their adversaries might run rather than fight a larger group. Essentially, there are moments where the mythic PCs should sucker the demons and their allies into thinking they're a small unit that's vulnerable, only to turn the tables on them with their mythic power.
But that's just my two cents,
--Neil
Thank you for the quick response. Also, thanks for a great adventure. We are really enjoying the AP thus far, and Sword of Valor looks amazing.
To the topic at hand. Your suggestion makes a lot of sense, and will work for my players I think. It will serve to highlight their mythic status, and appeal to their sense of duty. It will also be awe-inspiring for them to realize that their characters have to protect the 3rd level paladins.
In short - it will make them feel like the true heroes of the tale. Exactly where they should be.
I have a question about Soulsear. What happens if the players redeem the corruption force and then try to rework Soulsear? If it was possible to corrupt a sword like Radiance, does the converse hold where a demon infused weapon can be redeemed?