How do you spell-explain the armies of clones ?
Hobgoblins ?
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So, I've been racking my brains trying to figure out how the prospective Iron Gods GM would sell this AP to the average population of Pathfinder players who mostly have this sentiment:
Ya know, I love Paizo and I hope this AP is super popular, super successful and I wish nothing but the best, but ...
Personally, this is the first AP that holds literally no interest for me. Sure, I loved Expedition to the Barrier Peaks when I was a kid, but I just have no interest in lasers, robots or space ships in my game. Heck, in my version of Golarian, Numeria does not even exist at all.
Don't get me wrong - if we're playing a Start Trek, Star Wars, Gamma World etc RPG, then sure! Bring on the robots and lasers! But in my D&D/fantasy game? Nope, not for me. Sadly, I think this will be the first AP that I will have 0 interest in playing in.
My working theory is that it has everything to do with presentation. Think about Star Wars: a New Hope, Lucas has you swallowing bigger and bigger doses of disbelief as the film goes on, until Obi Wan is saying, "Yes, the Force. It flows through everything..." Even though it is presented to us with interstellar vessels from the opening scene, it is the humanity of Leah and the 'droids against the faceless Empire that gets the audience to buy-in to the narrative and ignore the lack of physical logic.
But, it is a challenge because there aren't popular examples of this kind of genre, "this" being a genre where the main assumption is fantasy with a little bit of weird science, as opposed to ones where soft science fiction is the assumption with smaller doses of supernatural. Lovecraft created a sense of fear by presenting a hereto unknown otherworldly race that cultivated a feeling of fear (by lack of knowledge), and powerlessness (by the Cthul-oids being so deadly). In Burroughs' "A Princess of Mars" the sense is of heroism as the surprise is that the main character is more powerful than the dangers he faces and the unknown is overcome because the tale is narrated by the main character as a flashback. Most Pathfinder players will probably benefit being eased into the idea of Iron Gods by analogies more genre-centric, like an Tian Xia cleric that worships the element of metal, alchemists with alchemical clockworks, wizards with cannon golems. I will be calling the Technic League the Technic Guild, or some-such that doesn't sound so 19th century. And I'll certainly have to promise any potential players no energy weapons, whether affected by Use Magic Device and Dispel Magic or not.
An example of presentation:
A princess who is kidnaped by a Black Knight who works for a Sorcerer EmperorStar Wars... you mean that movie where the farmboy meets a wizard who tells him to become a knight and then they go off to save a princess? ;)I'm not so much of a hater tho as i'm mostly overreacting, but my only fear is that this is a big hit and that the normal fantasy slowly disappears into nothingness to be replaced for 100% by lasers and robots because the Starwars junkies always demand more.No. And I am the biggest Star Wars fan in the world. But, I own Paizo, so you can take it to the bank.
Lisa
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It's possible that that isn't the average Pathfinder player's sentiment, and that the tastes of the average RPG player have changed considerably in the past dozen years or so, much like many other industries.
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What cheapy said.
See also: the works of Roger Zelazny, Jack Vance, Edgar Rice Burroughs, Michael Moorcock, et al. Particularly Vance, the "grandfather" of D&D.
Also: Final Fantasy games, Marvel and DC comics, a whole host of rpgs (TORG, Rifts, Amazing Engine, Shadowrun, and D&D itself). Not to mention the aforementioned Star Wars trilogy, which is really sword and sorcery fiction at its core.
I get the concerns- it does require a little more out of the box thinking for some people than others, but I also think Cheapy might be right in thinking that the tastes of people have broadened a lot more in general, maybe become more nuanced, over the decades. Take television, for example- the shows of today are definitely a lot different than they were 20 and even 30 years ago. Better? Not necessarily; worse? Not that either, per se. Different, though. The pacing, the storytelling, the presentation, all have changed to adapt to evolving tastes of the general public.
You might be surprised by what people would be willing to accept.
And if not, then you can always do a cut and paste job with the technology and magical equivalents. :)
oh i think the tv shows of today are waaay better then they were when i was younger. however shows like married...with children, newhart, the simpsons, etc. they paved the way for shows like American dad! and always sunny in philadelphia (i don't watch CSI or any show like it)
Sorry to be so late to the PAHTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
Wooooohooooooooo!!!
Noo-mary-ah!!!Noo-mary-ah!!!Noo-mary-ah!!!Noo-mary-ah!!!Noo-mary-ah!!!
With an Advanced Class Guide! I am actually swooning. 2014 is THE year!!!!!!
Nice one Paizo. Very nice indeed!!!!
Numeria? sweet, allow me to play my Dimension Tripping Hyperdimension Neptunia inspired Aegis Builds and i will enjoy it.
hell, i will play Dimensional Tripper by 5PB while i do the builds.
So what was the products annouced to support this? I thought somebody said there would be annouced today?
So what was the products annouced to support this? I thought somebody said there would be annouced today?
If I recall, Rulebook Line stuff on Friday, Companion and Setting stuff on Saturday.
Man, so much to look forward to! Blood of the Moon, two more Mythic products, Bestiary 3, Gods of the Inner Sea, Advanced Class Guide ....
NUMERIA!
Great time to be a gamer!
So what was the products annouced to support this? I thought somebody said there would be annouced today?If I recall, Rulebook Line stuff on Friday, Companion and Setting stuff on Saturday.
Man, so much to look forward to! Blood of the Moon, two more Mythic products, Bestiary 3, Gods of the Inner Sea, Advanced Class Guide ....
NUMERIA!
Great time to be a gamer!
Um don't you mean 'looking forward to Bestiary 4...as 3 came out two years ago?
Anything else besides Advanced Class Guide annouced for the Rulebook line?
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i wouldn't mind seeing archetypes for rogues that replace sneak attack with some kind of passive static damage bonus that applies against everything. as an example
Scoundrel
Dirty Fighting (Ex); a rogue with the dirty fighting alternate class feature gains a competence bonus to damage rolls equal to her rogue level when wielding a weapon she is proficient with due to her tendency to target weak points and the like. a rogue with dirty fighting for the purpose of prerequisites and effects based on number of sneak attack dice; is treated as having a number of sneak attack dice equal to half her rogue level rounded up. a character with dirty fighting who multiclasses into another sneak attacking class may sacrifice her sneak attack progression in that class to continue her dirty fighting progression. dirty fighting replaces sneak attack and all improvements of it
Pierce the Gap (Ex); a rogue of 3rd level or higher ignores 1 point of armor class and damage reduction from a foe she attacks, at 6th level and every 3 levels after, she ignores an additional point of armor class and damage reduction from that foe, to a minimum damage reduction of 0, and to a maximum amount of armor class ignored equal to the sum of her foes armor, natural armor and shield bonuses to armor class. this ability replaces trap sense. a ninja who takes this archetype instead replaces no trace.
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What are the titles of the chapters?.
.Ch 1. THE RAPTORING - Dubstep Mecha Cave Raptors Attack
Ch 2. GOLARION.COM - Alain Discovers Numeria.Facebook.com
Ch 3. A FISTFUL OF AWESOME - Valeros builds a Railgun
Ch 4. THE DARK SOVEREIGN APPROACHES - (It's Skrillex)
Ch 5. CYBER-ARODEN v2.0 MARK VI vs. ROBOSCORPAPLEXITRON - Oh man
Ch 6. PIERCE THE HEAVENS - The group finds the whole adventure was an elaborate VR construct run by an old man in a white suit who tells them "ergo vis a vis concordantly" before resetting Numeria
LOL
Seriously though, BROM should do the covers for this one.
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Stoked for this. I'm thinking a Thundercat character or team will be thematically appropriate for this.
HO!
Stoked for this. I'm thinking a Thundercat character or team will be thematically appropriate for this.
A friend of mine, when I told him about this AP said "Dibbs on Ookla the Mok."
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Does this mean I will finally get to see Sharks with frikken lazer beams on their heads?
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It's possible that that isn't the average Pathfinder player's sentiment, and that the tastes of the average RPG player have changed considerably in the past dozen years or so, much like many other industries.
This.
Speaking only for myself, this whole discussion on "Star Wars"-ifying Pathfinder/Golarion isn't the thing. Star Wars isn't where I get my "I want some tech in my fantasy".
For me it was what got me into gaming in the first place: console RPGs. Specifically, Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy IV through VI. Chrono Trigger, the first non-Mario video game I ever beat, started out stereotypical medieval fantasy - kings and princesses, swordsmen and knights, evil wizards - with a small dash of tech involved thanks to Lucca, which continued to build as you went through the game (first getting dumped in the high-tech future, then getting tossed back to magi-steampunk Zeal). Final Fantasy IV was very fantasy until about halfway through the game where you start running into higher technology including a spaceship. Same with V - low-tech, idyllic fantasy fare at the beginning, but as the situation gets more and more dire and you travel to more extreme parts of the game world more and more advanced technology rears its head.
The capper for me though was Final Fantasy VI, still my absolute favorite in the entire series, which introduced the concept of Magitek from the get-go, as one of the main driving forces of the plot. You start the game walking around in a mech, charging in literally guns-blazing!
These are the things that got me into gaming in the first place, and without them I wouldn't be here. I can't help but love the opportunity for the game I spend most of my time on now to begin to be more like the games that got me interested in the first place.
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I'm always in it for a good story. I'm flexible on genre so long as the story is cool. That's why a political war based AP in Taldor sounds fun and so does this.
I guess its all in the "execution" and having been a customer and then a working partner with James, I'm confident of his ability to pull this off and provide us with a great story.
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It's possible that that isn't the average Pathfinder player's sentiment, and that the tastes of the average RPG player have changed considerably in the past dozen years or so, much like many other industries.This.
Speaking only for myself, this whole discussion on "Star Wars"-ifying Pathfinder/Golarion isn't the thing. Star Wars isn't where I get my "I want some tech in my fantasy".
For me it was what got me into gaming in the first place: console RPGs. Specifically, Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy IV through VI. Chrono Trigger, the first non-Mario video game I ever beat, started out stereotypical medieval fantasy - kings and princesses, swordsmen and knights, evil wizards - with a small dash of tech involved thanks to Lucca, which continued to build as you went through the game (first getting dumped in the high-tech future, then getting tossed back to magi-steampunk Zeal). Final Fantasy IV was very fantasy until about halfway through the game where you start running into higher technology including a spaceship. Same with V - low-tech, idyllic fantasy fare at the beginning, but as the situation gets more and more dire and you travel to more extreme parts of the game world more and more advanced technology rears its head.
The capper for me though was Final Fantasy VI, still my absolute favorite in the entire series, which introduced the concept of Magitek from the get-go, as one of the main driving forces of the plot. You start the game walking around in a mech, charging in literally guns-blazing!
These are the things that got me into gaming in the first place, and without them I wouldn't be here. I can't help but love the opportunity for the game I spend most of my time on now to begin to be more like the games that got me interested in the first place.
Whereas I got into gaming because of my love for Tolkien and Lewis and Howard . . . and these are the types of fantasy that I enjoy. I played and enjoyed Final Fantasy too, although all those darn airships got old with me incredibly quickly. At the same time, I have a really good friend who played those games for the airships! It's different tastes, which is awesome. Everybody brings something different to the table! What I like about the Numeria AP coming out is that it finally gives those Final Fantasy lovers something in canon to play with, which they've really been missing out on for a long time. Honestly, you all deserve it!
Of course, it also reassures me when the CEO of the companies comes in to say that Golarion is a primarily fantasy world and will stay that way. (I didn't appreciate the ridiculous bickering that brought her in to say it, but I digress.) Because while I am happy for those fantasy/sci-fi/tech lovers, I am still a Tolkien/Lewis fantasy guy at heart, and that's what I truly enjoy. I don't necessarily agree with Cheapy that the majority have turned to the sci-fi/tech perspective on things, but I also don't agree with others here that get disappointed whenever Paizo does something for their sci-fi/tech crowd (though, admittedly, I'm not keen on planet-hopping . . . my apologies).
Paizo has always played things smart here. Dip the toe, and if it gets a good reception, immerse the foot. I'm cool with that. That's what they did here too. Put Numeria-inspired stuff in a couple products like KM and Dungeons of Golarion, put airships in UC, and now it's moved up to an AP with support material. I'm glad they've done this, and I hope the crowd that prefers this continues to get some support for their tastes in future products, as well.
Saying that's where the crowd is leaning though . . . I don't necessarily believe that. The vocal crowd maybe! Which makes sense, as that crowd hasn't had much to play with 'til now. I'm sure there are still a large number out there like myself though, that grew up with good ol' standard fantasy rummaging around in ye ol' imagination and still very much prefer that type of adventure! We just haven't been as vocal because we've got plenty to do! It would disappoint me if I made my switch to Pathfinder only to find that the sci-fi/tech play style was where this world was going, but I know that's not the case. Paizo wouldn't do that. They wouldn't alienate us standard fantasy folk . . . they're simply making the right move by giving the sci-fi/tech fantasy folk their options too. That's smart, and it shows they acknowledge both groups exist to provide new stuff for!
That's smart, and it shows they acknowledge both groups exist to provide new stuff for!
Prety much this =)
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When I was running a Night Below campaign I included various technologies including steam-powered locomotives. The primary reason was I wanted to have the group attacked by a bunch of demons while on the train and then destroy the bridge, a scene I stole from an animated movie! ^^;; So to me, magic and technology can easily coexist in my world and Numeria is perfectly okay with me.
Iron Gods sounds like an awesome name for a sword and planet pulp novel. I love it!
Yeah I tend to think it is very difficult to interpret the postings on one messageboard, even an "official" messageboard like this, as being indicative of the game as a whole.
I think the success of Distant Worlds shows that their is a strong interest in material that dips into Science Fantasy, and that the dislike that is present for that type of content here probably isn't representative of the population at large, or at least the people who are likely to buys lots of campaign setting and AP material.
This music seems appropriate.
Titan Dune
Hell yes!
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Well while the forum can be an echo chamber, some good solid facts are here.
For Distant Worlds, the Campaign Setting that veered wildly from Golarion, they not only sold out of the first printing in a short period of time, but according to Lisa Stevens, they actually printed more for this book's run than normal. And it still sold out more quickly than they expected.
So I think with the popularity of Distant Worlds, we can see that people are definitely ready for something a little different from the standard (please read, standard does not mean boring or hackneyed) with a good story and, obviously, fun.
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Paizo is getting bolder. I like it. I hope they keep making classic APs, tough.
That is an awesome user name.
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I wonder if this will move the Golarion setting in a more techno-fantasy direction as a whole.Not on my watch! Numeria is our techno fantasy playground, but what happens in Numeria stays in Numeria! :) if you want this style of fantasy gaming, go to Numeria, but you aren't going to see robots invading the River Kingdoms or stun rays swinging the tide in Andoran. Golarion is a classic fantasy world when taken as a whole and that is where I want it to stay.
Lisa
Thank God & thank you Auntie Lisa!
I look forward to the Nmeria AP but definitely as a "season to taste", instead of going the world-changing route.
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Yeah don't worry, even with bolder adventures and settings, there will always be a place for the good old classics in the adventure path and module lines :)
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It would need a moon broken in half though (forgot that cartoon's name).You're thinking of Thundaar The Barbarian. Which is not a bad inspiration really, for post apocalyptic sorcery and lost science themes.
Oh, and I am embarrassed to say how my 12-13 year old self was smitten by Princess Ariel.
According to your wiki link, Thundaar was born in NUMERIA and fought against the BLACK SOVEREIGN !!!
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I look forward to the Nmeria AP but definitely as a "season to taste", instead of going the world-changing route.
So true. Although my main hope for "Iron Gods" will be that it does not turn too cyberpunkish, but keeps a japano-fantasy touch ( perhaps a light one, where it comes to the world in general ), and satisfies the itch of many of the forumregulars,.
Let's *lean back* and see what happens after that..... and yeah, I got into fantasy RPG on the common fantasy Tolkien track.. and via Cthulhu. Nevermind the classic sagas and pantheonic tales. oooops, no laserguns thereˆˆPS I shall hide my yithian lightning gun/staff of lightning
According to your wiki link, Thundaar was born in NUMERIA and fought against the BLACK SOVEREIGN !!!It would need a moon broken in half though (forgot that cartoon's name).You're thinking of Thundaar The Barbarian. Which is not a bad inspiration really, for post apocalyptic sorcery and lost science themes.
Oh, and I am embarrassed to say how my 12-13 year old self was smitten by Princess Ariel.
Holy s$+#, you're right.
Never saw Thundaar so... this is news to me.
Any news about product tie-ins yet?
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According to your wiki link, Thundaar was born in NUMERIA and fought against the BLACK SOVEREIGN !!!It would need a moon broken in half though (forgot that cartoon's name).You're thinking of Thundaar The Barbarian. Which is not a bad inspiration really, for post apocalyptic sorcery and lost science themes.
Oh, and I am embarrassed to say how my 12-13 year old self was smitten by Princess Ariel.
Holy s@~&, you're right.
Never saw Thundaar so... this is news to me.
Some idiot has been taking information from a Golarion conversion of Thundarr and applying it to the wiki page.
Some idiot has been taking information from a Golarion conversion of Thundarr and applying it to the wiki page.
Yep. He even discusses how one of Thundarr's tactics is to use Intimidate on his opponents.
Ah, the joys of publicly editable documents...
(And people have the temerity to quote wikipedia as an original source so much of the time. :( )
My question is: Will we also see a rift open that allows giant monstrous creatures to emerge from it to ravage cities, and the PCs are forced to pilot the Iron Gods in pairs in order to fight off these abominations? ;)
My question is: Will we also see a rift open that allows giant monstrous creatures to emerge from it to ravage cities, and the PCs are forced to pilot the Iron Gods in pairs in order to fight off these abominations? ;)
Nonsense. Numeria isn't anywhere near the rim of the ocean, just a couple of lakes.
Need... more... news!!!
(Actually, would love to have more GenCon news period. Anyone know of a good blog or site where people have been dropping industry news from the con? The usual ones- here and ENWorld and rpg.net- seem awful quiet.)
Some idiot has been taking information from a Golarion conversion of Thundarr and applying it to the wiki page.According to your wiki link, Thundaar was born in NUMERIA and fought against the BLACK SOVEREIGN !!!It would need a moon broken in half though (forgot that cartoon's name).You're thinking of Thundaar The Barbarian. Which is not a bad inspiration really, for post apocalyptic sorcery and lost science themes.
Oh, and I am embarrassed to say how my 12-13 year old self was smitten by Princess Ariel.
Holy s@~&, you're right.
Never saw Thundaar so... this is news to me.
I don't know what to believe anymore! ;_;
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I am both annoyed and amused by Wikipedia. My regrets.
Some idiot has been taking information from a Golarion conversion of Thundarr and applying it to the wiki page.According to your wiki link, Thundaar was born in NUMERIA and fought against the BLACK SOVEREIGN !!!It would need a moon broken in half though (forgot that cartoon's name).You're thinking of Thundaar The Barbarian. Which is not a bad inspiration really, for post apocalyptic sorcery and lost science themes.
Oh, and I am embarrassed to say how my 12-13 year old self was smitten by Princess Ariel.
Holy s@~&, you're right.
Never saw Thundaar so... this is news to me.
this is why when researching on the internet, Wikipedia is the last place i go;)
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Also: Final Fantasy games, Marvel and DC comics, a whole host of rpgs (TORG, Rifts, Amazing Engine, Shadowrun
The thing is: I love all those things, but that doesn't mean that I have to mix them with my usual D&D (and as an Extension of it: Pathfinder) stuff, which, for me, is pure Fantasy without any sci-fi influences.
We'll see what it means for the Numeria-AP. I guess, in the end, that it will contain a lot of things for me to mine of, but I doubt that I ever will want to play it as it is; but then, if other players love this, then that's all the reason I need not to be too adverse to this idea.
Also: Final Fantasy games, Marvel and DC comics, a whole host of rpgs (TORG, Rifts, Amazing Engine, ShadowrunThe thing is: I love all those things, but that doesn't mean that I have to mix them with my usual D&D (and as an Extension of it: Pathfinder) stuff, which, for me, is pure Fantasy without any sci-fi influences.
We'll see what it means for the Numeria-AP. I guess, in the end, that it will contain a lot of things for me to mine of, but I doubt that I ever will want to play it as it is; but then, if other players love this, then that's all the reason I need not to be too adverse to this idea.
So true, so true. Btw, I love all those things too, really love FF games, huge Marvel fan (x-men and spiderman enemies) and love the SF movies, geez many of my favorite movies of all time are SF.
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OMG, please, not mecha rules. I think there is no "SF" concept I despise more than this silly nonsense. No engineer in his right mind would ever build such a thing as an upright, much less humanoid-shaped tank.
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If the square-cube law is already trashed sufficiently to allow Colossal living humanoids, what harm will a mobile suit or two add?