Oh, come on. Asmodeus is a god, not 'most people'. Do you think he's going to be fooled by that explanation? Not considering that he immediately would kill her after she ascends.
By this logic, wouldn't Asmodeus have acted to prevent any new gods from ascending and thus becoming competition? Why didn't he do something to stop Cayden from ascending? Why didn't Asmodeus kill the new immortal shortly after ascending? Why didn't he send minions to kill any of the other mortals who ascended while Asmodeus was involved in Golarion? They may not be LE, but they are still competitors and often opposed to his goals.
I'm not saying I necessarily think Abrogail could pull it off, but just because Asmodeus is a god, doesn't mean it would be impossible. He may even have reasons for wanting her to ascend.
Just to return an earlier point-
I hear a lot of discussion about whether Asmodeus is interventionist or not.
Well, besides Rovagug, the one other god we know would not hesitate to touch down and wade into the fight directly is Ydersius. He's done it before and given the chance, he'd do it again. Direct intervention with blatant disregard for escalation and consequences was his modus operandi. He didn't care what the gods of humanoids thought or did.
I like Asmodeus as a character in the game, and I think Cheliax is a lot of fun. I'm not dismissing those concepts. But if you don't even consider Ydersius and the serpentfolk—you're missing the forest for the trees. While you're debating whether Asmodeus would consider such an act, Ydersius is chomping at the bit to start a fight.. if he gets his head back.
Granted I didn't spend any energy making my case.
Chapter 6 of Serpent's Skull even has his preliminary battle plan for touching off World War G. Not jumping right into battle but a decisive series of steps to re-energize the serpentfolk and kick off a protracted war against the humanoids.
I liked your idea Jim. I was going to reply to more, but I have to get some work done! :)
Some one posted earlier that a WW is not very likely given the lack of global powers, which I think is very accurate. However, if some power like Ydersius or Tar-Baphon started killing off all of humanity, nations would be forced to unite or face extinction.
I'd lean toward Ydersius too. I'm not sure what Tar-Baphon's overall goals are, but it is very clear that Ydersius would like the elimination (or at least enslavement) of all humanity.
Ydersius or Tar-Baphon would be fun. Have starts for Ydersius' Avatar and Tar-Baphon would giggle at the chance to enslave/destroy everything. Heck, to to Aroden help via an artifact to help chain Tar-Baphon or "kill" Ydersius and Aroden is gone. Sounds like a perfect time to have some adventurers fail and either one rise again.
Or do an Incursion (Githyanki) style invasion via Dungeon and Dragon issues 100 I think.
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Cayden Caillen or Iomedae are different than the Queen of Cheliax, a nation which is beholden to Asmodeus and Hell. Should Abrogail become god, she is very likely to become the primary god of Cheliax, which will rob Asmodeus of his most powerful foothold and thousands of souls. I could see Asmodeus taking that as a personal affront.
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Maybe I haven’t been keeping up with my Cheliax history and lore. My understanding is that Cheliax being “beholden to Asmodeus and Hell” is an oversimplification. Cheliax doesn’t serve hell. The rulers of Cheliax don’t even necessarily worship Asmodeus. It is much more complicated than that. They feel like the powers and order of hell are something to be aspired too. Most importantly, the rulers of Cheliax feel like they are controlling the powers of hell and are in the driver’s seat.
Add in the fact that Asmodeus hates humanity. He hates it with, well, all the fury of hell. Why then does he allow his servants to be the servants of a human nation? Well, he is also a master manipulator. I would suspect he has long range plans that are beyond the comprehension of mortals.
But let’s set that aside for a moment. For some reason when I think of the Cheliax/ Asmodeus relationship, I think of the quote from The Usual Suspects: “the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist”. Now twist that to Cheliax; “the greatest trick Asmodeus ever pulled was convincing the world that hell served Cheliax.”
So I guess, I feel that the argument that Asmodeus would oppose Abrogail ascension just because he couldn’t stand another LE devil controlling god seems too easy to me. I don’t think he’d be afraid of it. If anything, I think he’d be masterminding it. Of course Abrogail thinks she is in control, but she is like a baby competing in a chess game with a master. She definitely wouldn’t be a threat and would most likely become subjugated to him (and isn’t that what he’d rather have).
Well...if the Starstone test made demigods, I would be inclined to agree. Pretty much all of the Archdevils and Whore Queens are only demigod level (CR equal or less than 30)
Abrogail would automatically be above that range, judging by Norgober, Iomedae, and Cayden Cailen. (quickly typing this so might be mispellings). So subjugation would not be a fool proof conclusion.
Of course, for every success how many failures? It might be that Asmodeus already knows that Abrogail can't pass (or has rigged it so she fails). So encouraging her to seize Absalom could itself be the ends, because if she fails and dies, than Cheliax (and Asmodeus by proxy) be in control of the only known god-making device in the Inner Sea.
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Not sure if anyone else mentioned this, but, if Aroden (or someone believably claiming to be him) came back, there might be a Continent-sized war as a result.
His presence (or apparent presence) would undermine the raison d'etre of a bunch of Inner Sea nations (Infernal Cheliax, Rahadoum, and all the breakaway provinces of Cheliax and Taldor...).
The real question isn't, 'Why would they fight this?' The answer to that is, 'Because they can.' The question is, 'What would let them fight this?' The answer to that is 'Improved transportation."
Until rather recently in the real world (in historical terms) wars took place between nations that were close to each other, most often sharing a boarder. Often the fight was over the exact location of said boarder. Even the exceptions strongly tended to be brief flare ups/small scale conflicts, extensions of wars between nations near each other. Finland and Japan just didn't have much fight about.
To move towards a World War you'll need to add the ability to move huge numbers of troops cheaply and quickly. Maybe magic gates (think single planet version of the Stargate from the various SG shows) that allow almost an almost unlimited number of troops to move from one gate to any other gate. In that setting Lands of the Linnorm Kings and Taldor might have reason to team up.
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Maybe magic gates (think single planet version of the Stargate from the various SG shows) that allow almost an almost unlimited number of troops to move from one gate to any other gate.
Those already exist. The Elves have their aiudara network that spans most of Avistan at least. The White Witches of Irrisen have the capability to create, and send armies through, winter portals all over Golarion. As a matter of fact...
As Irrisen’s armies sweep through the Lands of the Linnorm Kings and the Realm of the Mammoth Lords, viking warriors, Kellid barbarians, and mighty mammoths join Elvanna’s forces, soon adding orcs from Belkzen as well. Elvanna leaves the Worldwound alone for now, but Varisia and Ustalav soon fall, followed by Lastwall and Nirmathas. Eventually, even Andoran, Cheliax, and Taldor are threatened, as the endless winter expands beyond the lands of the Inner Sea.
Thousands die of famine as crops and livestock succumb to the unseasonable cold, and trade comes to a standstill as rivers freeze and roads become choked with snow. Civil unrest topples governments even before Irrisen’s armies reach them, and summer becomes just a distant memory. The armies of the south band together to halt the onslaught, but mere soldiers are powerless against the encroaching, endless winter. If new heroes do not come forth to stem the tide, Elvanna will claim all of Golarion as her icy throne world, proclaiming herself the new Queen of Witches.
This outcome of the Reign of Winter adventure path can easily be described as an Avistani general war, since it posits that the south of Avistan (by process of elimination I count Nidal, Cheliax, Isger, Druma, the Five Kings Mountains, Andoran, Kyonin, Razmiran, the River Kingdoms [primarily Lambreth, Tymon, Daggermark, and the Protectorate of the Black Marquis], and Numeria among this coalition) unites against the conquered north and that the winter is ended by "new heroes" before their front collapses. Again, epoch-making events can shake up, destroy, or create power blocs. Even this, though, is a continental and not a world war, though years of winter would definitely have worldwide repercussions.
They exist, but they aren't common enough to really get it going.
They being "common, easy to use portals."
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They being "common, easy to use portals."
The aiudara fit that. Again, they're all over the place, so common that it's up to GMs to place them; most are not special enough to be specifically placed by the designers. All you have to do to use one is be in proximity and be holding the correct key. The latter's only slightly tricky to figure out. Just capture a local elf and force them to tell you either 1) what the key is or 2) who might know what the key is. The only things standing in the way of the network being more widely used are the control Kyonin has over the most important hubs, the scarcity of elves to interrogate and the lack of will by other powers to challenge either. The only things preventing the elves from starting a world war using their gates is that hey, even they don't know all the keys, and if they tried, they'd be wiped out. Endangered species.
Zimmerwald, I have no idea what your point is. The aiudara just don't fit that as they stand. You describe in a middling amount of detail why they don't. Maybe it would be the good basis for something else that does fit it, them being altered or a type magic item based on them, but as is they don't work. Maybe a plot device to gain control over one here or there, but it doesn't seem like anyone group will every have a large world spanning network.
Further, if only one side had them they wouldn't be much of a World War. All the major players had at least some ability to project power towards the others (although reaching the United States was extremely limited since it wasn't a priority). For it to be a World War instead of a super power invading less powerful nations everyone needs the ability to project force.