Overall I agree, I will point out there is an Aux upgrade that does add energy damage to melee attacks or returning to thrown weapons, but it doesn't full convert, aka KAC to EAC. Otherwise, I agree. I would also like something like a kinetic sniper rifle. I personally would start with the rocket launcher and modify from there, but that is just my opinion.
I agree, I feel the recon frames are too good. They should either be more fragile, AC and HP wise, or have no frame slots. Also I find it odd that their is no ground only recon/scout frame. Currently the Skyspy and Co are just amazing and have 2 unique mech upgrades. The Assault classes also need a boost in some way.
I hope so as well. It was something I noticed as well while reading the Mech section. Also several of the frames currently are better than other options with little draw backs. Recon vs flight frames for example. Also I personally feel the assault frame category needs something to feel competitive to the others besides cheeper.
Soldiers, vanguards, and solarian all also have two good saves most have various ways of increasing survivability, maybe not as good as the nanocyte is currently. So that line of reasoning doesn't really work. Soldier have butt loads of feats that can fill in weakness and permanent gear boost. Solarians have a ton of options, maybe not all of them great. And vanguards had more HP and Stamina in the original playtest, but lost that, and want to take damage. So I'm thinking it is a mistake, personally.
Edited Fixed Typo.
Yeah, I can see the grenade one being situational, but man, when that grenade needs to move, it can be a life saver or ender, depending. Also, I have heard complaints about the abilities to reduce or heal the damage abilities. But man, it sucks when the healer mystic gets dropped and you don't have another healer.
The affect line makes it slightly better, but as others said, you get better uses out of reactions at later levels and at second, I personally rather save my reaction to shift a grenade to a better location (either offensively or defensively) than gamble a -2 is enough to cause a enemy to miss especially since they could pass the save and cause me to waste a reaction. Or hell, yeah it costs resolve, but reducing damage of an ally takes is also really useful.
Personally, I think disrupt attack is a trap ability. Save for no effect and can only use it once per target.
Otherwise, yes, even the shift ability and a few of the other powers while weak and may allow saves for no effect, can be used on allies for interesting tactical options. After level one, Witchwarper really should be able to almost every turn to something besides shoot, unlike Mystic and Technomancer. And I agree that is really cool.
For none full base attack classes, weapon focus becomes +2 at later levels. You complained about not being able to hit with you injection guns, but then say you want the damage from longarms? You don't get both. The ability to hit for the buffs and debuffs is more important than damage, especially if your ability to hit with a longarm is less than the injection weapon. Plus, you are using the only class that can get full damage from weapon specialization with smallarms and eventually with all injection weapons, if you select that ability and its upgrade. Plus, smallarms has some strong damaging options available now, handcannon being the big one. Yeah, you don't get many shots with it, but d8s on a smallarm is nothing to ignore, especially with full weapon specialization bonus. The primary role of this class is buff/debuff, not damage. So focus on making that the best, with the ability to reliably hit when those are out as needed.
For the melee build, you complained about low ACs, but want the damage of two handed weapons. Well, either buff AC via using shields, cover, or raise Dex. Again, you don't get all of them easily. Most none primary melee classes, Soldier, Solarian, and Vanguard, struggle at early levels. Heck, those three do as well, which means you either figured work arounds or except that you will have to compromise. Low ACs for front line characters should never be the compromise though, especially with how the NPCs to hit bonus are calculated.
I see some of your issues with both these builds. Lack of weapon focus small arms on the range build is crital, plus at later levels you can get full damage with small arms with one of your class features if you choose it. By maxing out Dex/Str you lack points to raise other stats needed for secondary roles or help in Combat, AC via Dex for the Str build. Also, buy having a stat at 17 there is no real advantage through majority of the game than starting at 16, both go to 18 at level 5. You can use that odd stat and the points from the lowered Str/Dex for raising the none primary combat to help in either not getting hit, melee build, or raise Str/Con for the gun build. Even if you don't lower Dex or Str, look into weapon focus for the gun build and use a shield for the melee build, personally he needs the riot shield. I get wanting longarms, but this is probably the only class that I would not recommend picking up longarms on.
It is already a weak ability, between only using it once per target per 24hrs, they get a save for no effect. Honestly, I think I would rather see the penalty cut in half and there be no save but keep the once per 24hrs rider. The save is what makes it totally not a useful ability, they have other things that are cool that don't have, sucky complete overriding saves. The self buff Overlapping Forms, Surefooted, Push Grenade, and any of the three reduce damage abilities from level 2, even with the resolve cost are stronger. Hell clever uses of Shift Resistance (on allies) or Shifting Steps (again allies) creates plenty of tatical opportunities to help control the flow of battle, but different than how other classes do the same.
Honestly, like the casting stat. But felt of the new classes this class felt the least impressive. Mostly it was because so many of the powers have the combination of limited uses, short durations, can only be used once on a target per 24 hours with a saving throw for no effect. Also, to me, this class had the most wording issues on some of the powers. Sadly, the Technomancer has similar issue, with certain powers and abilities being significantly better than others.
I am excited to hear the class will have a more unique spell list, hopefully focusing on energy damage both single target and area effect, area crowded control via terain manipulation or creation effects, and single target charm and domination spells, with some illusion spells as well.
Granted, my group currently is not playing Starfinder, but Pathfinder 1E (we are pretty anti 2E) Mummy's Mask, so actual play testing will probably be a while.
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Giving it the mind-affecting descriptor would solve the issue. Otherwise as you said you get weird cases like mindless undead making Will Saves (and not against positive energy) or mindless constructs, who normally don't ever make Will Saves because they are immune to most things that need Will saves. Knowing these things, that was why I was so confused, calling out creatures felt redundant, because items/object don't make Will Saves normally and honestly rarely make Ref or Fort Saves, outside rare cases. But, this might be bleed over from 3.5/Pathfinder rules as well. Again, thanks for the clarification.
Overall, I like the classes and was happy to hear Witcherwarper, honestly like Warpwitch better, they will be getting a more unique spell list.
Disrupt Attack (Su)
PS, thanks Owen KC Stephens for taking the time to address questions and concerns.
GM OfAnything wrote:
I disagree, it is redundant. Items don't get will saves and most unintelligent creatures are immune to will save based effects.
Creature is vs. trap. A trap could make an attack roll, but wouldn't make a save against this - it would just take the penalty.
Using that argument, adding creature is unnecessary if it allows a save because traps do not get saves, outside of weird edge case spells. Either way, it should be worded better, plus you can only target something once per 24hrs, adding save or no penalty just makes this less useful, similar to all the Solarian abilities people do not like.
Also, along with that last sentiment, save or no penalty/effect and once per 24hrs on abilities really is something I dislike about Starfinder, probably one of my biggest complaints.
Hey, something to note, the ability says if the ability is coming from a creature. This wording needs to be clarified, right now it could be considered to mean any attack or only natural attacks/unarmed attacks. Currently, depending on how the GM interprets the ability you can get different answers. It also has different, for lack of better term, tiers depending on the answer here as well.
Disrupt Attack (Su)
N. Jolly wrote:
Awesome, that is what I figured, but wanted to be sure, thanks!!
Hey question on the Darkness Defender archetype regarding violent challenge and guardian challenge, does violent challenge replace or modify guardian challenge? I really like the archetype, probably better than the main Sentinel class, but this might change my mind if it replaces guardian challenge.
Sadly, between this and the Fighter, I'm getting a distinct impression 2e won't be a game for me...
Me too. With 16+ years of 3.X matterial and Starfinder I don't see much need for 2.0 in my life. Also, I'm honestly not impressed by either the Rogue (Unchained was way more useful) and the new Fighter just feels bad. Sorry, Paizo, 2.0 isn't wowing me. Sad to say, since I have been fallowing you guys back when you had Dungeon and Dragon Magazines. Hopefully, Starfinder won't get left behind in this new PF2.0 stuff.
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
As a note, the Friday blog will be all about this podcast, adding some clarifications and behind the screen spoilers!
Good, looking forward to this. But, please don't go to far down the D&D 4/5ed mentality. That is what led me to Pathfinder in the first place. Some of the proficiency ideas I completely can't stand.