Build Challenge: Invincible PC


Advice


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hello there boards, here's a quick rundown of the situation.

We have a player in our group who burns through characters faster than a quick burning thing burns through easily burnable things. His characters have perished due to poor builds, or just straight up bad player choices, he's not actively trying to die, but he's just really really good at it. Things have gotten so bad, it's become a running joke, and we figured we should come to you esteemed folks to find the most him-proof character possible.

Character creation rules we use are as such:

4d6, drop the lowest, for stats
Only player races and Paizo products, not 3pp or older edition stuff
Build to level 7, Standard WBL.

Now, building an unkillable character mechanics wise can require system mastery, but the real challenge comes from reducing ways he can kill himself or get into bad situations, so keep in mind, the build will be run by someone who doesn't think things through (Collapsed a cliff face onto a group of zombies, while we were standing on said cliff face above said zombies) and forgets complicated class related things (i.e. Summoner spells, Barbarian Rage, going melee with a gunslinger), not a system guru keeping detailed notes.

In the last two sessions, he has 3 PC and 2 Ally NPC (All PCs were his) deaths on his hands via poor decision making and lack of forethought. To that end, what can you put together that can survive any monster and encounter, as well as this player? We'll review the entries, and select the best few, then he'll run them and we'll let you know how they did/died. Given the player, it'll probably be more effective if the character is simple to play, but don't let that stop you from min-maxing, before we hand him one of your builds, we'll make sure it's something he could follow :)

I figure, we'll collect some builds, screen them, choose some for him to use (we'll post the selected builds), then provide information on how things went in order to determine who is the most himproof. Sometimes the largest threat to a PC is the P.


Off the top of my head, a human Unbreakable Fighter with Racial Heritage (Orc) for the Deathless Initiate feat chain and the Heart of the Wilderness trait would be pretty damn hard to kill, though much of that is in the form of mechanics to let you deal with harsh saving throws and negative HP.

There's also a Synthesist Summoner who builds like a tank. High AC, high all around stats, extra HP buffer, and evolutions to give things like flight and damage reduction.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Presenting "Gruurk", the savage Half-Orc Barbarian from Belkzen.

Stat Rolls-

4d6 Stat Roll #1: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 3, 4, 2) = 11= 9
4d6 Stat Roll #2: 4d6 ⇒ (1, 5, 1, 2) = 9= 8
4d6 Stat Roll #3: 4d6 ⇒ (5, 5, 2, 6) = 18= 16
4d6 Stat Roll #4: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 3, 4, 5) = 14= 13
4d6 Stat Roll #5: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 6, 6, 3) = 17= 14
4d6 Stat Roll #6: 4d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 4, 4) = 19= 15

HP Rolls-

Level #2: 1d12 ⇒ 2
Level #3: 1d12 ⇒ 5
Level #4: 1d12 ⇒ 12
Level #5: 1d12 ⇒ 8
Level #6: 1d12 ⇒ 10
Level #7: 1d12 ⇒ 9

While Raging:

Gruurk
Half-Orc Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager) 7
CG Medium Humanoid (human, orc)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +11
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 18, touch 10, flat-footed 16 (+8 armor, +2 Dex)
hp 128 (7d12+70)
Fort +14 (+4 vs. hot or cold environments and to resist damage from suffocation), Ref +5, Will +6
DR 3/—, 6/lethal; Resist fire 1, extreme endurance (fire)
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 Furious Spiked chain +16/+11 (2d4+12/x2) and
. . Bite (Tusked) +8 (1d4+3/x2) and
. . Masterwork Dagger +14/+9 (1d4+6/19-20/x2)
Special Attacks rage (21 rounds/day)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 22, Dex 14, Con 26, Int 9, Wis 13, Cha 8
Base Atk +7; CMB +13; CMD 23
Feats Born Alone, Diehard, Endurance (Shaman's Apprentice), Raging Vitality, Toughness +7
Traits Linebreaker (Belkzen), Tusked
Skills Acrobatics -1, Climb +13, Escape Artist -1, Fly -1, Perception +11, Ride -1, Stealth -1, Swim +13 (+17 to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion)
Languages Common, Orc
SQ fast movement +10, rage powers (guarded life, guarded life, greater, guarded stance +2 [8 rds])
Other Gear +2 Breastplate, +1 Furious Spiked chain, Masterwork Dagger, Belt of physical might (Str & Con +2), Backpack, masterwork (empty), Bedroll, Blanket, winter, Crowbar, Skeleton key, Tent, small, Waterskin, Wrist sheath, spring loaded (1 @ 1 lbs), 369 GP, 4 SP
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Born Alone Gain temporary HP equal to Con bonus until next turn when you drop an opponent.
Damage Reduction (3/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Damage Reduction (6/lethal) You have Damage Reduction against non-lethal damage
Damage Resistance, Fire (1) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Fire attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Diehard You are stable and can choose how to act when at negative Hp.
Endurance (Shaman's Apprentice) +4 to a variety of skill checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Extreme Endurance (Fire) (Ex) At 3rd level, the invulnerable rager is inured to either hot or cold climate effects (choose one) as if using endure elements. In addition, the barbarian gains 1 point of fire or cold resistance for every three levels beyond 3rd. This ability
Fast Movement +10 (Ex) +10 feet to speed, unless heavily loaded.
Guarded Life (14 hp) (Ex) If reduced below 0 hp, convert some damage to non-lethal and auto-stabilize.
Guarded Stance +2 (8 rds) (Ex) Gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC vs. melee attacks while raging.
Linebreaker (Belkzen) When charging, add 10 feet to your base speed.
Rage (21 rounds/day) (Ex) +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Raging Vitality +2 CON while raging, Rage does not end if you become unconscious.
Skeleton key Use a +10 Disable Device for one try to open a lock.

While Not Raging:

Gruurk
Half-Orc Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager) 7
CG Medium Humanoid (human, orc)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +11
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 20, touch 12, flat-footed 18 (+8 armor, +2 Dex)
hp 107 (7d12+49)
Fort +11 (+4 vs. hot or cold environments and to resist damage from suffocation), Ref +5, Will +4
DR 3/—, 6/lethal; Resist fire 1, extreme endurance (fire)
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 Furious Spiked chain +12/+7 (2d4+7/x2) and
. . Bite (Tusked) +6 (1d4+2/x2) and
. . Masterwork Dagger +12/+7 (1d4+4/19-20/x2)
Special Attacks rage (21 rounds/day)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 20, Int 9, Wis 13, Cha 8
Base Atk +7; CMB +11; CMD 23
Feats Born Alone, Diehard, Endurance (Shaman's Apprentice), Raging Vitality, Toughness +7
Traits Linebreaker (Belkzen), Tusked
Skills Acrobatics -1, Climb +11, Escape Artist -1, Fly -1, Perception +11, Ride -1, Stealth -1, Swim +11 (+15 to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion)
Languages Common, Orc
SQ fast movement +10, rage powers (guarded life, guarded life, greater, guarded stance +2 [5 rds])
Other Gear +2 Breastplate, +1 Furious Spiked chain, Masterwork Dagger, Belt of physical might (Str & Con +2), Backpack, masterwork (empty), Bedroll, Blanket, winter, Crowbar, Skeleton key, Tent, small, Waterskin, Wrist sheath, spring loaded (1 @ 1 lbs), 369 GP, 4 SP
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Born Alone Gain temporary HP equal to Con bonus until next turn when you drop an opponent.
Damage Reduction (3/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Damage Reduction (6/lethal) You have Damage Reduction against non-lethal damage
Damage Resistance, Fire (1) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Fire attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Diehard You are stable and can choose how to act when at negative Hp.
Endurance (Shaman's Apprentice) +4 to a variety of skill checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Extreme Endurance (Fire) (Ex) At 3rd level, the invulnerable rager is inured to either hot or cold climate effects (choose one) as if using endure elements. In addition, the barbarian gains 1 point of fire or cold resistance for every three levels beyond 3rd. This ability
Fast Movement +10 (Ex) +10 feet to speed, unless heavily loaded.
Guarded Life (14 hp) (Ex) If reduced below 0 hp, convert some damage to non-lethal and auto-stabilize.
Guarded Stance +2 (5 rds) (Ex) Gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC vs. melee attacks while raging.
Linebreaker (Belkzen) When charging, add 10 feet to your base speed.
Rage (21 rounds/day) (Ex) +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Raging Vitality +2 CON while raging, Rage does not end if you become unconscious.
Skeleton key Use a +10 Disable Device for one try to open a lock.

Comments and rationale to follow later once i've slept. Basic concept is continually topping up HP (8 points at a time) with temporary HP by dropping foes, while simultaneously soaking hits with decent DR and making use of Guarded Life to take advantage of DR6 for non-lethal damage. AC is a little low but mitigated by a very long duration Guarded Stance. Skill points used for tricky situations (Perception, Swim, Climb). Character is very tough, his huge HP pool combined with DR makes him very forgiving and hes fairly simple (only a couple of things to track).


Not mine but this build is quite unkillable.
Lay on hands Paladin for thousands of extra HP.


Sounds like this guy needs a fighter. Simply because they don't need to keep track of rage rounds/spells or lay on hands charges.

Sword and board with mostly weapon focus type feats with a single weapon. Dwarf with a large steel shield and a waraxe or warhammer (assuming x3 crits aren't above his concentration levels). The Dwarf racial feats include a nice cleave tree.

I suggest Dwarf because not only are they really awesome, but the higher con and bonus vs various saves make them a tad more survivable than the average Joe. Darkvision also solves a lot of issues.

Scarab Sages

Dwarven unbreakable fighter with a tower shield, dwarven axe and steel soul.


Is the character required to be able to act? I'm pretty sure I know how to make someone utterly invincible... so long as they don't mind being utterly frozen.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

The Heal Yourself Paladin is the best, by far. It's not even close. Build is freaking impossible to kill. Here's an optimized version.

Tiefling (Pit-born) Paladin (Oath of Vengeance)

Stats: 15+2(race)+1(level)/12/14/8-2(race)/8/16+2(race) = 18/12/14/6/8/18

Feats:
(1) Fey Foundling
(3) Armor of the Pit
(5) Power Attack
(7) Extra Lay on Hands

He should have 23,500 gp by level 7. Spend it on:

Full Plate Mail +1 (~3k)
+1 Longsword (2k)
+1 Shield (1k)
+2 headband of charisma (4k)
+2 belt of strength (4k)
+1 ring of protection(2k)
+1 amulet of natural armor(2k)
+2 cloak of resistance (4k)
= ~22k

His AC will be:

10 + 10(plate)+1(dex)+3(shield)+1(RoP) + 1 (ANA) + 2 (Armor of the Pit) = 28. Which is damned annoying for CR 7-9 enemies to hit.

His saves are:
5/2/5 + 2/1/-1 + 5/5/5(cha) + 2/2/2(cloak) = 12/8/9.

And he can heal himself for 4d6+8(fey foundling)+7(tiefling favored class bonus, take it every level) every round for 10 rounds, for an average of 29 points of healing per round.

-Cross


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Here's a monk that's annoying as @#$% to kill too:

Snot the Quinggong Goblin Monk, Tree Runner

Stats: 12-2/16+4+1(level)/12/10-2/16/7-2

Feats:
(1) Roll With It, (Weapon Finesse)
(2) (Dodge)
(3) Crane Style
(5) Crane Wing
(6) (Combat Reflexes)
(7) Crane Riposte

Equipment:
Amulet of Mighty Fists (Agile): 4k
Headband of Wisdom +2: 4k
Belt of Dex +2: 4k
Bracers of Armor +1: 1k
Ring of Protection +1: 2k
Amulet of Natural Armor +1: 2k
Cloak of Resistance +2: 4k

= 21k

He will always fight defensively, because, with Crane Style and 3 ranks in acrobatics, he trades -1 AB for 4 AC.

AC: 10 + 1(dodge)+6(dex)+4(wis)+1(RoP)+1(AnA)+1(Armor)+1(Monk AC)+1(Small)+4(Fighting Defensively) +3 (Barkskin from Quinggong monk) = 33.

Notably, only 5 of that AC is subtracted on touch. So he's @#$%ing impossible to hit with rays either (28 AC vs. touch attacks)

Saves: 5/5/5 + 1/6/4 + 2/2/2 = 8/13/11

His AB is pretty amazing because of the 22 dex, and with Agile amulet of mighty fists, he adds his dex to damage (+6 on each punch), so he can actually put out a lot of damage. But here's the glorious bit: He will never take damage in melee if he doesn't want to.

At level 7, his acrobatics check is 7(ranks)+3(class skill)+6(dex)+4(Tree Runner)= +20. With an average roll of 10, his acrobatics check is a 30, which means with Roll With It, he can negate a hit of 25 damage or less.

If a hit hits him for more than that, he can auto-negate 1 per round with Crane Wing, so crits don't threaten him.

He has a great saves and evasion and touch AC, so wizards can't do anything to him. And it's utterly hopeless for melee types to attempt to do anything to him - literally, if he doesn't want to, he will never get hit by any enemy.

-Cross


Wouldn't Crane Style and 3 ranks be -2 AB for 4 AC?


iammercy wrote:
Wouldn't Crane Style and 3 ranks be -2 AB for 4 AC?

Crane Riposte (3rd crane style feat) reduces the penalty to -1 AB.

-1 AB for 4 dodge AC = freaking sweet tradeoff.

-Cross


Ahh.. missed that one. Very sweet indeed!


6 people marked this as a favorite.

He could make 200 bards and then hide behind them when they die...


We're trying to avoid the industrial manufacturing Character plant for him just spitting out Hero 1, Hero 2, Hero 3, Hero 4, Hero 5, Hero 6, Hero 7, ad infinitum lol. I'm seeing lots of good ideas, keep them coming! I used a similar heal yourself paladin in an arena fight we did, and he was a beast, eventually died but it was a slog for the baddies, lol.

Sovereign Court

Seems to me like the problem is that even if you give him a Paladin, he'll forget to use Lay on Hands and not bother with the spells. I'd say give him a fighter - maybe a Lore Warden that likes doing Dirty Trick or something, that sounds up his ally. Help him with his feat choices and attack calculations, and for the love of god don't let him anywhere near explosives. (A tool belt of alchemical items is fun to have for any character, though.)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Bobo Rolliolis wrote:
We're trying to avoid the industrial manufacturing Character plant for him just spitting out Hero 1, Hero 2, Hero 3, Hero 4, Hero 5, Hero 6, Hero 7, ad infinitum lol. I'm seeing lots of good ideas, keep them coming! I used a similar heal yourself paladin in an arena fight we did, and he was a beast, eventually died but it was a slog for the baddies, lol.

Okay, one more for you. This, along with monk and paladin, are basically the only characters that get saves that are EFF YOOOU enough to easily beat most mid-level monster DCs. Though you can throw a dwarf with Sturdy Soul on almost any character.

Human Barbarian, Invulnerable Rager
Racial Traits: Heart of the Fields

17+2(race)+1(lvl)/14/14/11/10/7

Level 1: Power Attack, (Improved Sunder)
Level 2: Lesser Beast Totem
Level 3: Extra Rage Power: Superstition
Level 4: Reckless Abandon
Level 5: Extra Rage Power: Witch Hunter
Level 6: Spell Sunder
Level 7: Extra Rage Power: Beast Totem

Equipment:
+1 furious Falchion 8k
Breastplate +1 1.5k
RoP+1 2k
ANA+1 2k
Belt of Strength +2 4k
Cloak of Resistance +2 4k

AC: 10 + 2(dex)+7(armor) + 1 (def) + 1 (Natural) -2 (raging) = 19
Damage Reduction: 3/-

Saves: 5/2/2 + 5/5/5 (Superstition) + 2/2/2 (CoR) + 4/2/2 (stats in rage) = 16/11/11

This character is mostly going to muder the @#$% out of everything, ever. While raging, Reckless Abandon/Beast Totem/Power Attack cancel themselves out, and he just attacks at:

+7(base) + 8 (strength) + 3(weapon) = +18/+13

He does 2d4 + 12(strength) + 6 (power attack) = 23 damage on average, critting on an 18.

So, basically, enemies aren't going to live long enough to whittle down his (substantial) hit points.

Meanwhile, he's tough to kill.

-Cross


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You can also do a lot of variants on the following, which basically uses Dwarf to get the requisite saves required to not give a @#$%:

Dwarven Crusader Cleric
Domain: Plants(Growth)

Stats: 15+1(level), 13, 14+2(race), 10, 14+2(race), Cha: 10-2

Feats:
(1) (Heavy Armor Proficiency), Steel Soul
(3) Power Attack
(5) Extra Channel (Tower Shield Proficiency)
(7) Extra Channel

Equipment:
+2 Tower Shield 4k
+2 Full Plate 5.5k
+1 Warhammer 2k
+1 RoP 2k
+3 CoR 9k

AC: 10 + 1 (dex) + 11 (Armor) + 6(Shield) + 3 (Barkskin from plant domain) + 1 (Ring of Protection) = 32 AC

Saves: 5/2/5 + 3/3/3 (CoR) + 4/4/4 (dwarf + steel soul) + 3/1/4 (stats) = 15/10/16

You can pretty much do this build with any class. Dwarf + steel soul, put a lot of cash into AC items.

-Cross


Harlan Vale, Backwoods Hunter
Human Ranger [Infiltrator, Skirmisher?] 1

Stat Priority: Dex, Str, Con, Wis, Int, Cha
Feats:
(HB)Point Blank Shot
(1)Precise Shot
(CS)Archery: Rapid Shot
(3)Deadly Aim
(5)Weapon Focus (longbow)
(CS)Improved Precise Shot
(7)Manyshot

1st Favored Enemy: Magical Beasts
Infiltrator adaptation: +2 Natural Armor (or Darkvision)
Animal Companion: Horse (or other suitable mount)
2nd Favored Enemy: Base on game? Humanoids (Human) is always a safe bet.

At 4th level you get spells. Gravity Bow is a good option here, but so is taking the Skirmisher archetype for thinks like Bolster Companion, Defensive Bow Stance, etc.

Tactics: Stay out of the way, let the enemy come to you and fill 'em with arrows as they come. Then when you are mounted, you can go anywhere you want and still full attack.

This was written pretty quickly, but if you're not a dunce, you should stay alive.


Human Superstition Barbarian has amazing saves by applying favored class bonus to it, and you get a big HD, and you get bonuses to Con. Take Eater of Magic Rage power and when someone casts a spell you can fail, roll a new save, and if successful gain temporary HP. You can also go Invulnerable Rager for DR/- equal to half your level. And you can take Rage Powers to improve it. You can also get a ring of evasion to avoid taking any damage from things that allow reflex saves. Have the barbarian use a sword and board and a mithral breastplate. He wont be so great at damage, but he'll be pretty damn survivable.

Edit: Damn just noticed somebody already suggested basically this exact thing.

Well, I'll second it anyway.


A Stonelord Paladin (dwarven archetype) may also be an option. You can get DR and Lay on Hands, so that may help keep him alive.

Shadow Lodge

The Dwarven Stonelord Paladin has great defensive abilities IMO, Strannik. Slap a well built one in enchanted full plate, give him a heavy wooden or steel shield, and a warhammer in the other and watch him rarely die. The swift action LoH is good, so is DR/adamantine=1/2 level and the chance to ignore crits. Then defensive stance to give him temporary HP and make him better at killing, have the only mercy you get be fatigued and watch as you get really hard to die. Also, get Steel Soul for saves, and use the Elemental to help draw the foes away from you.
Unfortunately, the OP banned 3pp because the Armigir is the best possible way because you have DR that stacks with adamantine and bonuses to AC for wearing full plate. too bad you banned it.


http://www.roll-dice-online.com/
Number of sides: 6
Number of dice to roll: 4
Number of rolls: 6
Result
3 - 6 - 4 - 6 (Avg: 4,75)
6 - 6 - 3 - 2 (Avg: 4,25)
3 - 5 - 5 - 5 (Avg: 4,5)
5 - 6 - 1 - 4 (Avg: 4,0)
2 - 6 - 3 - 1 (Avg: 3,0)
5 - 1 - 4 - 4 (Avg: 3,5)
(Total avg: 4,0)

Equipment:
Headband int +2: 4k/ Headband of Wisdom +2: 4k/ Belt of cons +2 4k/Ring of Protection +1: 2k /Amulet of Natural Armor +1: 2k /Cloak of Resistance +2: 4k
= 22k

Dwarf Magus Kensai 5/ Monk Master of Many Styles 2
Str:15 Dex:16+2(race) Con:10 Int:15 Wis:15+2(race)+1(level) Car:10-2(race)

AC: 10 + 2(dodge)+6(dex + cats grace)+5(wis)+3(Int)+1(RoP)+1(AnA) +4(Fighting Defensively) +4 (Mage Armor) +2(shield) = 34

Saves: 7/4/7 + 1/6/5 + 2/2/2 +2/2/2 = 12/14/16 - 14/16/18 vs sleep, paralysis and stunning - 16/18/20 vs spell

Feats:Steel Soul, Dodge, Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Crane Style, Dragon Style


So we have plenty of builds posted, but I really think you need to ask that player what his goal is in playing the game.

You say he's making a lot of poor choices, and everybody makes mistakes. Forgetting spells is understandable if he's a new player. Forgetting to rage is kind of weird.

Entering melee as a gunslinger? Either he has fun creating these kinds of outlandish situations as a need for attention/ jokes, or you are a babysitter for somebody who wants to play a different game.

No build will change those problems. Can you elaborate some more on his expectations/goals/play style?


Well if you wanted to be cheesy you could always use the Reincarnated Druid Archetype...

While not TECHNICALLY invincible, it is partially immortal... as long as he doesn't die more than once a week.

Many Lives (Ex)
At 5th level, if a reincarnated druid is killed, she may automatically reincarnate (as the spell) 1 day later. The reincarnated druid appears in a safe location within 1 mile of her previous body. At will for the next 7 days, she can sense the presence of her remains as if using locate object as a spell-like ability. If she is killed during these 7 days, she remains dead and does not reincarnate. The many lives ability does not function if the reincarnated druid is slain by a death effect. A reincarnated druid cannot be raised from the dead or resurrected, though she can be reincarnated.

Oh and the Reincarnated Druid has alot of abilities kind of geared around not suddenly dying...


pteromath wrote:
...but if you're not a dunce, you should stay alive.

Here lies the problem, lol.

He just enjoys playing the game and socializing, I don't think he really sets out with a goal of what he wants to accomplish 5 levels from now, it's more of a "Oh, that's cool, can I make a character do that?" while enjoying friend's company. The group doesn't particularly mind, we're fairly casual, but given his track record it's now become a bit of a running theme (his characters dying), and we're trying to have fun with it, giving him the bestest defensive character and seeing how long it takes for him to break it, I think to some extent he's proud of wearing the mantle of most dead PCs.

Hence why this is a two part challenge, building one survivable mechanics wise, but then also something that can survive a player with a high inclination towards dying.

I think Grurk, Snot, OoV Paladin and one of the Invulnerable ragers will be handed too him, next opportunity and he can choose which one to try next. I'll keep you posted!


Bobo Rolliolis wrote:
pteromath wrote:
...but if you're not a dunce, you should stay alive.

Here lies the problem, lol.

He just enjoys playing the game and socializing, I don't think he really sets out with a goal of what he wants to accomplish 5 levels from now, it's more of a "Oh, that's cool, can I make a character do that?" while enjoying friend's company. The group doesn't particularly mind, we're fairly casual, but given his track record it's now become a bit of a running theme (his characters dying), and we're trying to have fun with it, giving him the bestest defensive character and seeing how long it takes for him to break it, I think to some extent he's proud of wearing the mantle of most dead PCs.

Hence why this is a two part challenge, building one survivable mechanics wise, but then also something that can survive a player with a high inclination towards dying.

I think Grurk, Snot, OoV Paladin and one of the Invulnerable ragers will be handed too him, next opportunity and he can choose which one to try next. I'll keep you posted!

Promise us that if he does end up getting one of these characters dead, you'll come tell us about it? I think it's legitimately impossible for Snot the Goblin to die against anything remotely close to CR.

-Cross

Shadow Lodge

Crosswind wrote:

Here's a monk that's annoying as @#$% to kill too:

Snot the Quinggong Goblin Monk, Tree Runner

<snip>

He will always fight defensively, because, with Crane Style and 3 ranks in acrobatics, he trades -1 AB for 4 AC.

With the Threatening Defender trait, he won;t even lose the first -1.

...I think you have a real winner here (although the meager allotment of a single Crane Wing per round makes the Crane chain better on paper than in real combat versus multiple multi-attack opponents; it's a lot of investment to get what is essentially the melee equivalent of Deflect Arrows).

Shadow Lodge

Crosswind wrote:

Promise us that if he does end up getting one of these characters dead, you'll come tell us about it? I think it's legitimately impossible for Snot the Goblin to die against anything remotely close to CR.

-Cross

I second this notion.

Grand Lodge

Oh.. invincible.. not invisible.

Cause if Invisible.. Gnome Sabator Alchemist- Focuses everything into stealth. Gets Dampen Presence. Aroma negate, fly.. and suddenly you are invisible to everything.. It would take someone very very dedicated to perception to beat your eventual 70 base stealth..


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sir Thugsalot wrote:
Crosswind wrote:

Here's a monk that's annoying as @#$% to kill too:

Snot the Quinggong Goblin Monk, Tree Runner

<snip>

He will always fight defensively, because, with Crane Style and 3 ranks in acrobatics, he trades -1 AB for 4 AC.

With the Threatening Defender trait, he won;t even lose the first -1.

...I think you have a real winner here (although the meager allotment of a single Crane Wing per round makes the Crane chain better on paper than in real combat versus multiple multi-attack opponents; it's a lot of investment to get what is essentially the melee equivalent of Deflect Arrows).

Sadly, Threatening Defender doesn't work with fighting defensively, on Combat Expertise, which Snot is too stupid to take. =D

Here's the thing about Snot the Goblin: Crane Style and Crane Riposte are great feats for AC boosting - You go from -4/+3 to -1/+4 between them, which is a swing of 3 AB and 1 AC for 2 feats. Usually you can pick up about 1 AC or AB for a feat, so you're getting double-mileage on these.

(Random Aside: You could take Mobility instead of Combat Reflexes at 6 if you wanted to be MORE invincible)

The idea for Snot the Goblin is thus:
Spellcasters can't touch him. Too high saves across the board.
Melee types come in two forms: Lots of attacks with medium damage, or low number of attacks with high damage.

Because of Roll With It, Snot can opt out of melee whenever he wants: All he has to do is make a 5+damage acrobatics check (on average, he can dodger a 25-point hit, which is much higher than the average damage for a CR 7 monster's single swing).
So all he has to actually be afraid of is a single GIANT swing that he can't dodge. ...which, cheerily, is exactly what Crane Riposte is there to do.

So to damage Snot, you basically have to hit his gigantic AC.
You have to hit him for more than he can casually roll out of the way with (remember, if he rolls out of the way, you're not getting the rest of your attacks, because he's not in melee any more)
Then you have to do this TWICE, because Crane Wing is going to negate the first attack _and_ let Snot make a Stunning Fist attack which could prevent you from even getting to swing a second time.

=)

...this ends up being really hard to do.

-Cross

Shadow Lodge

So: how to meld Snot the goblin monk with the teifling paladin to create a Champion of Irori....

...somebody's going to have to be adopted.

Grand Lodge

Sir Thugsalot wrote:
Crosswind wrote:

Here's a monk that's annoying as @#$% to kill too:

Snot the Quinggong Goblin Monk, Tree Runner

<snip>

He will always fight defensively, because, with Crane Style and 3 ranks in acrobatics, he trades -1 AB for 4 AC.

With the Threatening Defender trait, he won;t even lose the first -1.

...I think you have a real winner here (although the meager allotment of a single Crane Wing per round makes the Crane chain better on paper than in real combat versus multiple multi-attack opponents; it's a lot of investment to get what is essentially the melee equivalent of Deflect Arrows).

This is why I'd go more along the lines of a Flowing monk.

I'm not sure what he gets from Quingong that is really needed here.. but my flowing monk, pretty much a nat 20 (Only crit that could actually hit you if your AC is really crazy high) So.. 5% chance for the enemy to actually hit my AC.

Shadow Lodge

Espy Kismet wrote:
I'm not sure what he gets from Quingong that is really needed here.

There's no reason for any monk to ever NOT be a Qinggong because it stacks with everything and forfeits nothing -- unless you want it to (so it's entirely optional).

Shadow Lodge

Sir Thugsalot wrote:
Espy Kismet wrote:
I'm not sure what he gets from Quingong that is really needed here.
There's no reason for any monk to ever NOT be a Qinggong because it stacks with everything and forfeits nothing -- unless you want it to (so it's entirely optional).

Not quite, if you play a Martial Artist, you don't get a ki pool and therefor Qinggong monk is non-applicable.


Espy Kismet wrote:
Sir Thugsalot wrote:
Crosswind wrote:

Here's a monk that's annoying as @#$% to kill too:

Snot the Quinggong Goblin Monk, Tree Runner

<snip>

He will always fight defensively, because, with Crane Style and 3 ranks in acrobatics, he trades -1 AB for 4 AC.

With the Threatening Defender trait, he won;t even lose the first -1.

...I think you have a real winner here (although the meager allotment of a single Crane Wing per round makes the Crane chain better on paper than in real combat versus multiple multi-attack opponents; it's a lot of investment to get what is essentially the melee equivalent of Deflect Arrows).

This is why I'd go more along the lines of a Flowing monk.

I'm not sure what he gets from Quingong that is really needed here.. but my flowing monk, pretty much a nat 20 (Only crit that could actually hit you if your AC is really crazy high) So.. 5% chance for the enemy to actually hit my AC.

Quinggong is to save me money, and pick up barkskin pretty much all the time for a dungeon crawl or two.

Flowing Monk blows a bonus feat (level 2), which I really want, and focuses on tripping/repositioning, which I don't have the stats or feats to get good at. =(

That's my basic logic against Flowing monk. I've posted a few other flowing-monk based builds in these forums, and I love the archetype, but it doesn't work on this character.

-Cross

Shadow Lodge

ArmouredMonk13 wrote:
Sir Thugsalot wrote:
Espy Kismet wrote:
I'm not sure what he gets from Quingong that is really needed here.
There's no reason for any monk to ever NOT be a Qinggong because it stacks with everything and forfeits nothing -- unless you want it to (so it's entirely optional).
Not quite, if you play a Martial Artist, you don't get a ki pool and therefor Qinggong monk is non-applicable.

Qinggong can't hurt you even if you never use it -- and you might pick up Ki Pool from another class or PrC.

All monks should be Qinggong monks in addition to whatever else they have going on.

Shadow Lodge

Fair Enough.


Necroe'd for the awesome build ideas. Side note: did that so called player make out ok with whichever character someone here built for them?

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Build Challenge: Invincible PC All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice