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I need a good fighter build


Advice

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Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

During tonights session of Rise of the Runelords (hence forth to be known as The Somme), my cleric was killed. In a vain attempt not to die (I've lost 3 characters thus far), I've decided that I'm going to create a fighter this time around.

I was wondering if anyone has any good ideas on builds?

I'll be starting at 6th level so will have a bit of flexibility.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Prux.


There are any number of good fighter builds that people can suggest on this forum. I'd recommend having a look at the Guide to the Class Guides.

I'm having a great time playing the AP with a samurai and I know lots of people will recommend paladins and/or rangers. However, I don't think that this necessarily addresses your fundamental issue of character death. Usually these things have more to do with tactics, party composition, and decision making. I would suggest either continuing this thread with more information on your party and what has led to character deaths thus far and which version of RotRL you're playing (the original is quite deadly and the more recent release has toned that down slightly).


Fighter is probably the most versatile and customization class there is, so asking for a builds is like asking for a good motor vehicle. There are just so many builds, we need abit more than "whats a good fighter?" Do you
want a two-handed fighter? Sword and board? Two weapons? Maybe even a reach trip/disarm fighter for some crowd control? Hell, fighter archers are pretty scary so maybe that's what you want. Give us abit more info about what you want to play.


ranged or melee?
build for damage or survival?
fighter (class) or fighter (char type)?
which sources are allowed?
point buy or rolled states?
party setup?

Breiti

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

We're playing the anniversary edition. Tonight was pure bad luck, I was critted by one of the boss ogres for 3 x damage and was basically cut in half.

As for what type of build, was leaning toward the traditional meat shield as we already have an archer that shoots everything to pieces.


Fighter is a VERY customizable class.

Do you have any preferred style? Sword & Board? Two-Weapon Fighting? One bigass weapon? Archery? Anything at all?

Also, what point buy will you be using? Are there any unusual restrictions or houserules? (e.g.: "Fighters get 2 extra skill points" or "There are no elves in this setting, so you can't be an elf")

We need some pointers here...

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As I've purchased Herolab I was also thinking of going a different race such as Tiefling or Nagaji

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I rolled the following stats at the end of tonights session in front of the group: 18, 14, 8, 11, 14, 14

All official Pathfinder books are allowed.

I want to go with a melee fighter.

All races contained in the offical books can be used.


Those are pretty good stats... Do u have any favorite style for melee?

Also, how much cash u get? Standard WBL?

EDIT: I think I can post a few builds here so you can adapt them as you see fit. Also, I suggest you check this thread. There are lots of cool builds (for Fighters and other classes too, in case you want a melee warrior but not specifically a fighter).

Pretty much any build made by Bob_Loblaw will be very solid and creative. The links in the 1st post lead to some of his Fighter builds from other threads too.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Was thinking either 2 handed fighter or just stock standard sword and shield.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

A good Fighter build or a good melee build? I ask because I have a truly unkillable Paladin that has been a blast to play (and has gone through that very same AP) and I just posted a mini-guide detailing my favorite Barbarian tank build here. If you just want a martial character who's capable of dealing a lot of damage and staying out of harm's way I also have a great Archer build as well.

If you're set on Fighter though, this might be a good way to go:

Human Fighter (Weapon Master)

Attributes:
STR - 18 (+2 racial bonus, +1 at 4th, 8th, 12th and 16th)
DEX - 14
CON - 14
INT - 14
WIS - 11 (+1 at 20th level)
CHA - 8

Traits:
Defender of the Society
Birthmark

Feats:
1st - Power Attack
1st - Cleave
1st - Dodge
2nd - Mobility
3rd - Combat Expertise
4th - Spring Attack [Retrain Cleave to Whirlwind Attack]
5th - Combat Reflexes
6th - Lunge
7th - Weapon Focus: Bardiche
8th - Improved Critical: Bardiche
9th - Weapon Specialization: Bardiche
10th - Critical Focus
11th - Dazing Assault
12th - Sickening Critical
13th - Staggering Critical
14th - Critical Mastery
15th - Greater Weapon Focus: Bardiche
16th - Greater Weapon Specialization: Bardiche
17th - Stunning Critical

Here's the low-down: by 6th level (where you start), you'll be capable of executing a Lunging Whirlwind Attack and with a reach weapon no less, meaning every round you can pretty much attack everything on the battlefield - especially once you keep in mind that you can execute a five foot step during that Whirlwind Attack. At 11th level that becomes a Dazing Whirlwind Attack which offers some tremendous battlefield control. He's no where near as survivable or as versatile out of combat as the three builds I mentioned above, but I've had this character do some truly amazing things on the battlefield.

A couple of quick notes - if you manage to get a Keen Bardiche, I reccomend swapping out Improved Critical with Desperate Battler, and make sure you familiarize yourself with exactly what the Weapon Master can do.

[Edited to reflect the attributes you mentioned above]


Prux wrote:

We're playing the anniversary edition. Tonight was pure bad luck, I was critted by one of the boss ogres for 3 x damage and was basically cut in half.

As for what type of build, was leaning toward the traditional meat shield as we already have an archer that shoots everything to pieces.

Hmmm... "traditional meat shield" eh? well that means either a two-hander or a sword and board. Now that being said, the two hander is easier to build, but the sword and board will out preform it at higher levels. keep in mind I'm talking about two-weapon fighting with the shield. this gives you both a higher AC (with improved shield bash)and more damage at higher levels. Hell, all the feats you really need are in the core rulebook. I had a sword and board fighter that did 300 points in one round wile having a pretty darn good AC. Now this was at 18th level, but the build was more than viable from 1-20.


@Prux - Have a look at a Order of the Warrior Samurai.

Specifically plan on generally fighting with the katana two-handed and pick up the following feats:

Power Attack
Furious Focus
Iron Will
Critical Focus (and friends)
Improved Critical (or get a keen katana)
(also pick up three ranks of acrobatics)

The net result is a tough (esp. at 9th level with greater resolve) two-handed melee specialist that is going to crit a lot for solid damage (2 handed + Power Attack + Challenge), can buff his saves (via Resolve and Honor in All Things), has 4 skill ranks/level, and a mount (that becomes much more useful now that you're fighting larger monsters).

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Damocles Guile wrote:

A good Fighter build or a good melee build? I ask because I have a truly unkillable Paladin that has been a blast to play (and has gone through that very same AP) and I just posted a mini-guide detailing my favorite Barbarian tank build here. If you just want a martial character who's capable of dealing a lot of damage and staying out of harm's way I also have a great Archer build as well.

If you're set on Fighter though, this might be a good way to go:

Human Fighter (Weapon Master)

Attributes:
STR - 18 (+2 racial bonus, +1 at 4th, 8th, 12th and 16th)
DEX - 14
CON - 14
INT - 14
WIS - 11 (+1 at 20th level)
CHA - 8

Traits:
Defender of the Society
Birthmark

Feats:
1st - Power Attack
1st - Cleave
1st - Dodge
2nd - Mobility
3rd - Combat Expertise
4th - Spring Attack [Retrain Cleave to Whirlwind Attack]
5th - Combat Reflexes
6th - Lunge
7th - Weapon Focus: Bardiche
8th - Improved Critical: Bardiche
9th - Weapon Specialization: Bardiche
10th - Critical Focus
11th - Dazing Assault
12th - Sickening Critical
13th - Staggering Critical
14th - Critical Mastery
15th - Greater Weapon Focus: Bardiche
16th - Greater Weapon Specialization: Bardiche
17th - Stunning Critical

Here's the low-down: by 6th level (where you start), you'll be capable of executing a Lunging Whirlwind Attack and with a reach weapon no less, meaning every round you can pretty much attack everything on the battlefield - especially once you keep in mind that you can execute a five foot step during that Whirlwind Attack. At 11th level that becomes a Dazing Whirlwind Attack which offers some tremendous battlefield control. He's no where near as survivable or as versatile out of combat as the three builds I mentioned above, but I've had this character do some truly amazing things on the battlefield.

A couple of quick notes - if you manage to get a Keen Bardiche, I reccomend swapping out...

Do you have the Paladin build too?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Tiefling Fighter:

Scary McFighter CR 5
XP 1600
Male Tiefling Fighter 6
N Medium Outsider (native)
Init +3; Senses darkvision; Perception +12
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 24, touch 12, flat-footed 22 (+10 armor, +2 Dex, +2 natural)
hp 49 (6d10+12)
Fort +9, Ref +7, Will +7 (+2 vs. fear)
Defensive Abilities bravery +2; Resist cold 5, electricity 5, fire 5
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee +1 Silversheen Falchion +14/+9 (2d4+9/18-20/x2) and
. . Masterwork Falchion +14/+9 (2d4+8/18-20/x2)
Ranged Masterwork Composite longbow (Str +4) +10/+5 (1d8+4/x3)
Special Attacks weapon training abilities (heavy blades +1)
Spell-Like Abilities Darkness (1/day)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 21, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 6
Base Atk +6; CMB +11; CMD 23
Feats Armor of the Pit, Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round), Cornugon Smash, Intimidating Prowess, Lunge, Power Attack -2/+4, Weapon Focus (Falchion)
Traits Indomitable Faith, Valashmai Veteran (Perception)
Skills Acrobatics +3 (-1 jump), Bluff +0, Climb +9, Intimidate +12, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +10, Perception +12, Ride +10, Stealth +5, Swim +9
Languages Abyssal, Common, Infernal
SQ prehensile tail
Other Gear +1 Full plate, +1 Silversheen Falchion, Masterwork Composite longbow (Str +4), Masterwork Falchion, Belt of giant strength +2, Cloak of resistance +2, 1350 GP
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bravery +2 (Ex) +2 to Will save vs. Fear
Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Cornugon Smash When you damage an opponent with a Power Attack, you may make an immediate Intimidate check as a free action to attempt to demoralize your opponent.
Damage Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Cold attacks.
Damage Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Damage Resistance, Fire (5) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Fire attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Lunge Can increase reach by 5 ft, but take -2 to AC for 1 rd.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Prehensile Tail Your tail can retrieve small objects on your person as a swift action.
Valashmai Veteran (Perception) +1 trait bonus on Survival in the jungle.
Weapon Training (Blades, Heavy) +1 (Ex) +1 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Heavy Blades

Here... A good ol' 6th level Tiefling Fighter. With Cornugon Smash, so you can scare the hell out of your enemies while beating the crap out of them at the same time.

I'd recomend getting Improved Sunder, Iron Will and Improved Crtical next. Weapon Specialization is a also a good feat, although I find it rather boring...

Also, grab bows as your second Weapon Training, to deal with the occasional flying enemies... Ranged may not be your main fighting style, but you shouldn't ignore it either.


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Prux wrote:
Do you have the Paladin build too?

Sure.

The key to the Paladin build is making maximum use of the one of the most potent abilities in the game - namely Lay on Hands. Forget Smite, great as it is, Lay on Hands allows you to heal yourself as a swift action, meaning that you can do so and still make a full attack, charge, double move, whatever.

Human Paladin (Oath of Vengeance)

Attributes:
STR - 14
DEX - 14
CON - 14
INT - 11 (+1 at 20th)
WIS - 8
CHA - 18 (+2 racial bonus, +1 at 4th, 8th, 12th and 16th)

Traits:
Reactionary
Purity of Faith

Feats:
1st - Fey Foundling
1st - Power Attack
3rd - Deadly Aim
5th - Extra Lay on Hands
7th - Extra Lay on Hands
9th - Extra Lay on Hands
11th - Extra Lay on Hands
13th - Extra Lay on Hands
15th - Extra Lay on Hands
17th - Greater Mercy
19th - Ultimate Mercy or Radiant Charge

My version of the character notmally carries a Greatsword and a Composite Bow, but you're free to use any weapons you like as you're not tied to anything specific.

Here's the deal - with Fey Foundling you gain an additional +2 hit points per die whenever you heal yourself or are healed by another (including channelling, I believe). That's huge. You also gain the benefits of Mercies when you self-heal or heal others which is also huge. Moreover, you know how awesome Smites are? Well, Oath of Vengeance allows you to sub some of those Lay on Hands in for extra Smites, so now you're fueling both your offense AND your defense. Power Attack and Deadly Aim were taken to make you equally dangerous in melee or at range when you're Smiting because the attack bonus should more than offset your penalty for using those feats. Also keep in mind the massive bonus to saving throws you'll be getting, all of those Paladin immunities and the auras you'll be generating to help protect your teammates.

Let me put this in perspective. Assuming no ability-boosting magic items, at 6th level you'll have 10 uses of Lay on Hands a day. Assuming that you don't use any of those to get extra smites, that gives you (3d6+6)x10 extra hit points to play with. That works out to about 160 bonus hit points a day. By 12th level that number jumps to (6d6+12)x20 or around 660 bonus hit points a day. At 20th that number becomes 2,552 bonus hit points. A day. Again, that's in addition to being able to wear full armor, have all those boosted saves, gain all those Paladin immunities etc.

So you have all the self-heals you want without ever having to take a break in combat, all the Smites you want which makes you a killing machine and protection from almost anything that could incapacitate you or turn you against the party. You have heals that can use to help out party members between battles or when you bed down for the night... and let us not forget spells. Paladins have some truly great spells. In particular, I reccomend:

1st level - Hero's Defiance (let's you cast Lay on Hands as an immediate action - its good to hang onto a couple of these to be truly unkillable)
2nd level - Litany of Righteousness (swift action spell that doubles the damage you deal for 1 round against evil creatures - combined with Smite its pretty much a death spell)
3rd level - Blessing of Fervor (normally not a Paladin spell but Oath of Vengeance gets it for you - probably one of the best group buffs out there)
4th level - Bloodsworn Retribution (+5 attacks, +5 saves, +5 skill and ability checks, pretty much all the time? Yes, please)

That's the build that absolutely thrived in RotRL Anniversary Ed. He was a LOT of fun to play.


Prux wrote:


Do you have the Paladin build too?

If you realy want to go Paladin you could try something like the build below. Fey Foundling and the tiefling favorid class bonus will give you the ability to heal yourself in the middle of combat as a swift action for 3d6 + 9 ,6 times per day.

Race: Tiefling(Demon-Spawn) +2 Str +2 Char -2 Int, Shatter
Class: Paladin (Oath of Vengeance)

18 +2
14
14
11 -2 (+1 @ 4th Level) = 10
08
14 +2

Feat
____________________________________

01st Level: Fey Foundling
03rd Level: Power Attack
05th Level: Armor of the Pit
07th Level:
09th Level:
11th Level: Dazing Assault


Oh... Paladin builds... Those are fun!

Human Paladin:

Peter The Paladin CR 5
XP 1600
Male Human Paladin 6
LG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +9
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 22, touch 12, flat-footed 21 (+10 armor, +1 Dex, +1 deflection)
hp 49 (6d10+12)
Fort +11, Ref +8, Will +8; +2 vs. death
Immune fear, disease
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee +1 Bardiche +12/+7 (1d10+8/19-20/x2) and
. . Masterwork Armor spikes +12/+7 (1d6+5/x2)
Special Attacks smite evil (2/day)
Spell-Like Abilities Detect Evil (At will)
Paladin Spells Prepared (CL 3):
1 (2/day) Grace, Grace
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 21, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 8, Cha 18
Base Atk +6; CMB +11; CMD 23
Feats Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round), Fey Foundling, Lunge, Power Attack -2/+4
Traits Reactionary, Valashmai Veteran (Perception)
Skills Acrobatics +2 (-2 jump), Diplomacy +13, Knowledge (religion) +9, Perception +9, Sense Motive +8
Languages Common
SQ aura of courage, aura of good, divine bonds (weapon [1/day]), lay on hands (3d6) (7/day), mercies (mercy [fatigued], mercy [staggered]), paladin channel positive energy 3d6 (3/day) (dc 17
Other Gear +1 Armor spikes (magical) Full plate, +1 Bardiche, Belt of giant strength +2, Headband of alluring charisma +2, Ring of protection +1, 687 GP
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Aura of Courage +4 (10' radius) (Su) You are immune to Fear. Allies within aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs Fear.
Aura of Good (Ex) The paladin has an Aura of Good with power equal to her class level.
Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Divine Bond (Weapon +1) (6 minutes) (1/day) (Sp) Weapon shines with light and gains enhancement bonuses or chosen properties.
Fey Foundling Magical healing works better on you
Immune to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Lay on Hands (3d6) (7/day) (Su) You can heal 3d6 damage, 7/day
Lunge Can increase reach by 5 ft, but take -2 to AC for 1 rd.
Mercy (Fatigued) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the fatigued condition.
Mercy (Staggered) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the staggered condition. This does not help if the target is at 0 HP.
Paladin Channel Positive Energy 3d6 (3/day) (DC 17) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Smite Evil (2/day) (Su) +4 to hit, +6 to damage, +4 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Valashmai Veteran (Perception) +1 trait bonus on Perception and Survival, one of these becomes a class skill.

This guy uses a bardiche to fight whatever tries to attack him or his friends, and if something gets too close, he relies on his masterwork armor spikes to deal with it!

I was suing a similar build in one of the games I play, but the group rarely has a chance to gather together to play, so I tried to import him to another game with another group as my secondary character, but that camapign is also on hiatus due to the Mythical Playtest... -.-'


Breiti wrote:
Prux wrote:


Do you have the Paladin build too?

If you realy want to go Paladin you could try something like the build below. Fey Foundling and the tiefling favorid class bonus will give you the ability to heal yourself in the middle of combat as a swift action for 3d6 + 9 ,6 times per day.

Race: Tiefling(Demon-Spawn) +2 Str +2 Char -2 Int, Shatter
Class: Paladin (Oath of Vengeance)

18 +2
14
14
11 -2 (+1 @ 4th Level) = 10
08
14 +2

Feat
____________________________________

01st Level: Fey Foundling
03rd Level: Power Attack
05th Level: Armor of the Pit
07th Level:
09th Level:
11th Level: Dazing Assault

The tiefling favored class option ability is nice but it doesn't make up for the short-comings it inflicts - you get a -2 Charisma (one less use of LoH right off the bat) and you don't get the bonus feat (2 more less uses of LoH) or the additional hit points. Intelligence and Dexterity are traditionally not very high on the Paladin's list of desired attributes.

Darkvision and the elemental resistances or nice, but I just don't see them being a better option than humans for Paladins. Having said that, the game is more about role-play than optimizing for me, and if someone really loves the concept of a Tiefling Paladin then I say go for it.


@Damocles_Guile: That is why they mentioned Demon Spawn variant.

Now when the OP says official Pathfinder books do they mean the PRD books or all Paizo books?


Damocles Guile wrote:

The tiefling favored class option ability is nice but it doesn't make up for the short-comings it inflicts - you get a -2 Charisma (one less use of LoH right off the bat) and you don't get the bonus feat (2 more less uses of LoH) or the additional hit points. Intelligence and Dexterity are traditionally not very high on the Paladin's list of desired attributes.

Darkvision and the elemental resistances or nice, but I just don't see them being a better option than humans for Paladins. Having said that, the game is more about role-play than optimizing for me, and if someone really loves the concept of a Tiefling Paladin then I say go for it.

Tiefling(Demon-Spawn) gives +2 Str +2 Char -2 Int. So at level 6 the human heals 3d6 + 6, 8/day and the tiefling 3d6 +12, 6/day asuming both have fey foundling and the human uses the extra feat on exta lay on hands.

Human healing with lay on hands per day: 16,5 * 8 = 132 HP
Tiefling healing with lay on hands per day: 22,5 * 6 = 135 HP

So its the same healing but with less actions and you have the resistince and the +2 Str of the Tiefling(Demon-Spawn).


Breiti wrote:
Damocles Guile wrote:

The tiefling favored class option ability is nice but it doesn't make up for the short-comings it inflicts - you get a -2 Charisma (one less use of LoH right off the bat) and you don't get the bonus feat (2 more less uses of LoH) or the additional hit points. Intelligence and Dexterity are traditionally not very high on the Paladin's list of desired attributes.

Darkvision and the elemental resistances or nice, but I just don't see them being a better option than humans for Paladins. Having said that, the game is more about role-play than optimizing for me, and if someone really loves the concept of a Tiefling Paladin then I say go for it.

Tiefling(Demon-Spawn) gives +2 Str +2 Char -2 Int. So at level 6 the human heals 3d6 + 6, 8/day and the tiefling 3d6 +12, 6/day asuming both have fey foundling and the human uses the extra feat on exta lay on hands.

Human healing with lay on hands per day: 16,5 * 8 = 132 HP
Tiefling healing with lay on hands per day: 22,5 * 6 = 135 HP

So its the same healing but with less actions and you have the resistince and the +2 Str of the Tiefling(Demon-Spawn).

Those numbers are obviously all accurate - we really don't use the more exotic races (much less their even more exotic variants) in our game. No prohibitions necessarily, but it often leads to those ridiculous tengu, half-dragon, drow, catfolk, aasimar parties that look more like a circus than anything else.

You are correct - with the Demon-spawn variant of a Teifling a statistically superior Paladin could be built. A lawful good character with a chaotic evil ancestry abandoned by the Fey is getting a bit out there even for me though...


You guys should spoilerize your builds, to make the posts shorter. Also, the OP gave us the numbers he rolled... 18 14 14 14 11 08, so it's probably better if we use them.

And since I got my copy of the Inner Sea Bestiary, here's an Android Fighter.

Android Sword & Board Fighter:

Rob Mc.Robot CR 5
XP 1600
Male Android Fighter 6
LN Medium Humanoid (android)
Init +5; Senses darkvision, low-light vision; Perception +10
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 24, touch 12, flat-footed 22 (+10 armor, +2 shield, +2 Dex)
hp 49 (6d10+12)
Fort +9, Ref +7, Will +9 (+2 vs. fear); +4 racial bonus vs. mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poiison, and stun effects
Defensive Abilities bravery +2, constructed; Immune emotion, exhaustion, fatigue, fear, disease, sleep
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee Light Shield Bash +11/+6 (1d3+5/x2) and
. . +1 Silversheen Scimitar +13/+8 (1d6+7/18-20/x2) and
. . Masterwork Cestus +12/+7 (1d4+5/19-20/x2)
Special Attacks nanite surge +9 (1/day), weapon training abilities (heavy blades +1)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 21, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 6
Base Atk +6; CMB +11; CMD 23
Feats Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round), Double Slice, Improved Shield Bash, Iron Will, Power Attack -2/+4, Shield Slam, Two-weapon Fighting
Traits Indomitable Faith, Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +3 (-1 jump), Climb +9, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +10, Perception +10, Ride +10, Sense Motive -2, Survival +11, Swim +9
Languages Common, Undercommon
Other Gear +1 Full plate, +1 Light steel shield, +1 Silversheen Scimitar, Masterwork Cestus, Belt of giant strength +2, Cloak of resistance +2, 5350 GP
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bravery +2 (Ex) +2 to Will save vs. Fear
Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Constructed (Ex) Counts as both humanoids and constructs for effects that target type.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Immune to Emotion (Ex) You are immune to all emotion effects.
Immune to Exhausted You are immune to the exhausted condition.
Immune to Fatigue You are immune to the fatigued condition.
Immune to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Sleep You are immune to sleep effects.
Improved Shield Bash You still get your shield bonus while using Shield Bash.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Nanite Surge +9 (1/day) (Ex) Bonus to any one d20 roll. Glow like a torch for 1 round when used.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Shield Slam Shield Bash attack gives a free bull rush on a hit.
Weapon Training (Blades, Heavy) +1 (Ex) +1 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Heavy Blades


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Perhaps this small selection from my Crazy Character Emporium will help to inspire you with some ideas of your own?
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Cyndel Ghydel (11th-level tiefling knife fighter)
Dayer Rann (15th-level human master archer)
Deacon Rann (15th-level human trick archer)
Dreg Jawbreaker (9th-level dwarven juggernaut)
Esmeralda (18th-level human dervish)
Fei Kune (13th-level human war hero)
Gudruun (4th-level human master of chains)
Guymelef Dilandou (10th-level human warrior magi)
Himo Galonodel (13th-level aasimar celestial warrior)
Il Rob Spitbeard (5th-level dwarven defender)
James Mycen (13th-level human knight)
Kirom Lancaster (15th-level human free hand fighter)
Macellano Alamander (7th-level human trick fighter)
Mad Meenus Sniiv (4th-level human juju zombie murderer)
Milerna Nanneel (10th-level human halberdier)
Nym Amalith (12th-level human archer skirmisher)
Obrist Lang (11th-level human phalanx guardian)
Pollivar Mormont (16th-level halfling giant slayer)
Sen Argyle Spitbeard (12th-level dwarven war veteran)
Seregon (20th-level human juggernaut)
Taur Thelyn (13th-level human forest warden)
Theen Fida (8th-level human bodyguard)

Good luck!

Bonus Concepts:
I also have a 4E Character Emporium. Though the characters found there are incompatible with Pathfinder, they all have thorough background write ups which may help to generate ideas for fighter characters (among others).


Look at building a phalanx fighter. APG.

It's a twist on the sword and board fighter by adding the fact he can fight with a reach weapon in one hand like a polearm or long spear.

This is helpful for fighting all those big nasties.

However you can always shield bash anything inside your reach.

Another route you could go is A) Two weapon warrior mixed with titan mauler. (picture swinging BIG weapons around in each hand) and getting the benefits of being able to make multiple attacks even after a move.

or B) a Cavalier, where all the big folk walk, you can fight a mounted character too.


Prux wrote:
I was wondering if anyone has any good ideas on builds?

Also, how crazy cheese weasel were you planning to get?


Here is a fun idea... A TWFing Ranger who uses a Falchion and Armor Spikes instead of one weapon in each hand.

By RAW, there is nothing forbiddings you from using such build, but some people don't like it and will argue that's not RAI.

Personally, I don't see any problem in allowing a new type of character. The build is very flavorful and balanced, maybe even slightly better than the usual TWFer, but if that's enough to warrant banning it, then we should ban 2-handed builds as well, because they're even better than this guy and need less feats.

But I digress... here's my build:

Randy - Falchion & Armor Spikes TWFer:

Randy CR 5
XP 1600
Male Half-Elf Ranger 6
NG Medium Humanoid (elf, human)
Init +3; Senses low-light vision; Perception +13
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 21, touch 14, flat-footed 18 (+7 armor, +3 Dex, +1 deflection)
hp 49 (6d10+12)
Fort +9 (+4 vs. hot or cold environments and to resist damage from suffocation), Ref +10, Will +9; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune sleep; Resist elven immunities
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee +1 Falchion +10/+5 (2d4+8/18-20/x2) and
. . Masterwork Armor spikes +10 (1d6+5/x2)
Ranged Masterwork Composite longbow (Str +4) +10/+5 (1d8+4/x3)
Special Attacks favored enemies (evil outsiders +4, undead +2)
Ranger Spells Prepared (CL 3):
1 (2/day) Lead Blades, Magic Fang
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 21, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +6; CMB +11; CMD 25
Feats Boon Companion (Ranger), Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round), Double Slice, Endurance, Power Attack -2/+4, Two-weapon Fighting
Traits Indomitable Faith, Suspicious
Skills Acrobatics +3 (-1 jump), Bluff -1 (+3 vs. evil outsiders, +1 vs. undead), Climb +9, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +9 (+13 vs. evil outsiders, +11 vs. undead), Knowledge (nature) +9 (+13 vs. evil outsiders, +11 vs. undead), Linguistics +4, Perception +13 (+17 vs. evil outsiders, +15 vs. undead, +15 while in forest terrain), Sense Motive +12 (+16 vs. evil outsiders, +14 vs. undead), Stealth +12 (+14 while in forest terrain), Survival +11 (+15 vs. evil outsiders, +13 vs. undead, +13 while in forest terrain, +14 to track), Swim +9 (+13 to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion)
Languages Aquan, Common, Draconic, Elven, Sylvan, Undercommon
SQ animal companion link, combat styles (two-weapon combat), elf blood, favored terrain (forest +2), hunter's bonds (animal companion, wolf), share spells with companion, track, wild empathy
Combat Gear Wand of cure light wounds; Other Gear +1 Armor spikes (magical) Breastplate, +1 Falchion, Masterwork Composite longbow (Str +4), Belt of giant strength +2, Cloak of resistance +2, Ring of protection +1, 75 GP
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Animal Companion Link (Ex) You have a link with your Animal Companion.
Boon Companion (Ranger) +4 levels to calc familiar/animal comp abilities (max of your HD).
Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Elf Blood You are counted as both elven and human for any effect relating to race.
Elven Immunities +2 save bonus vs Enchantments.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Endurance +4 to a variety of skill checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Favored Enemy (Evil Outsiders +4) (Ex) +4 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Evil Outsiders).
Favored Enemy (Undead +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Undead).
Favored Terrain (Forest +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Terrain (Forest).
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Share Spells with Companion (Ex) Can cast spells with a target of "you" on animal companion, as touch spells.
Track +3 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Wild Empathy +5 (Ex) Improve the attitude of an animal, as if using Diplomacy.

EDIT: Oops... Forgot his Animal Companion...

Stein The Wolf - Animal Companion:

Stein
Wolf
N Medium Animal
Init +3; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +10
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 23, touch 13, flat-footed 20 (+4 armor, +3 Dex, +6 natural)
hp 39 (+12)
Fort +7, Ref +8, Will +5 (+4 morale bonus vs. Enchantment spells and effects)
Defensive Abilities evasion
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 50 ft.
Melee Bite (Wolf) +7 (1d6+4/x2)
Special Attacks trip
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 16, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Base Atk +4; CMB +7; CMD 20 (24 vs. Trip)
Feats Armor Proficiency (Light), Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round), Iron Will
Tricks Attack [Trick], Down [Trick], Fighting [Trick], Stay [Trick]
Skills Acrobatics +3 (+11 jump), Perception +10 Modifiers +4 to survival when tracking by scent
Languages
SQ devotion +4, fighting [trick]
Other Gear Chain shirt, You have no money!
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
+4 to Survival when tracking by Scent +4 to Survival when tracking by Scent.
Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Devotion +4 (Ex) +4 Morale bonus on Will Saves vs. Enchantments.
Evasion (Ex) No damage on successful reflex save.
Fighting [Trick] The animal has been trained to fight.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
Trip (Ex) You can make a trip attempt on a successful attack.

With a few tweaks, you could make it a Fighter build as well, but I think Rangers are more versatile/effective and can fill a similar role.

Considerations:
Pros:
- Somewhat Higher DPR thant the standard TWFer. (I think)
- Armor Spikes are always "on". So you won't be caught unarmed.
- You can use your hands to do stuff like casting spells without dropping/sheating your weapons. (Also possible if you TWF with 2 cestus or simply buy weapon chords)
- Hitting them with a sword and kicking their groins with a spiked knee pad (or shoving a spiked shoulder plate in their neck) is cool!
Cons:
- Feats such as Weapon Focus/Specialization and Improved Critical only apply to one of your weapons. (That said, I still suggest getting Improved Critical [Falchion].)
- Armor Spikes' numbers are not that great. (1d6+Str/x2... Meh)
- Still takes a lot of feats.
- Does not have the extra AC of a Sword & Board TWFer.

Other Observations
- I grabbed the Suspicious trait because I like Sense Motive and it synergizes well with a Ranger's Wisdom, but Magical Knack or Reactionary would probably be better in terms of optimization.
- I put a few ranks in linguistics so he could learn some extra languages, mostly because I think every Ranger should at least be able to speak Sylvan and Undercommon... Draconic is always useful and there are lots of aquatic creatures who speak Aquan.
- The best choice for Favored Enemy/Terrain depends mostly on your campaign, but some of them are pretty safe bets (Undead, Evil Outsiders and Monstrous Humanoids in particular).
- I took Dual Minded alternate racial trait instead of the standard Skill Focus to boost its Will Save. The racial bonus against enchantment spells and the immunity to magical sleep also help. That and the good ol' Cloak of Resistance should keep you safe, but I also suggest you get a Wayfinder + Clear Spindle Ioun Stone, so you become immune to being possessed/mind controlled by evil creatures
- Your animal companion has a pretty low Will save as well, so get him some save-boosting items too!


Have you thought of a dwarven ranger?

Use the APG/URG and raid it for the perfect giant killing dwarf, racial traits, traded in and out, with the skirmisher archetype and gobble up as many of those awesome feats as dwarvishly possible.

would would have an ogre/giant nightmare.

Pick two weapon fighting (put the 11 in dex because you dont need a high dec for TWF when you are a ranger) and use Sword and board as your style, bashing and slashing.

Maybe if you can pick up a teamwork feat or two with an animal companion, or go hunters bond with the party and the bigguns aren't going to have a chance.

STR 18
Dex 12 (+1 from level 4)
Con 16 (+2 race)
Int 08 (you will have enough skills as a ranger)
Wis 16 (+2 race) good save stat
Cha 12 (-2 race)

That's one tough giant killing dwarf ranger in the making.
Spiked light shield and dwarf axe could be a good TWF combo.
But I like scimitar as well.

At 6th level he has two fighting style picks: So Improved shield bash and Two-weapon fighting.
At level 1: Power attack
level 3: Cleave
Level 5: Goblin hewer
Level 7: Orc hewer

and so on. eventually picking up great cleave, cleave through and giantkiller using a dwarven double war axe.

make the right choices and you have a character custom built to stomp the heck out of the APs most common enemies.

Edit:
At 9: Great cleave
At 11: Strike Back
At 13: Giant killer
At 15: Cleave through

An alternate version of this character would add the horselord archetype with the Skirmisher:
You wouldnt get TWF. But instead get mounted combat
I'd take all the same feats as above, but instead you could be riding through scads of enemies doing full attacks and cleaving with mounted skirmisher!

heeeeeellllll ya

Shadow Lodge

Want some builds? Here's a whole handful.

Guide to the Builds

Shadow Lodge

Damocles, you have some interesting builds floating around. Do you mind if I link a few of them?


IF I were to play RotRL, that dwarf skirmisher horselord would be my pick, eventually getting a dire wolf or something cool to ride, if I found anything cool in the AP I came across, I dunno, I dont own the AP and never read it. Joust know there are goblins and giants from illustrations etc.


I now wanna make a Dwarf Ranger/Cavalier who rides a Boar...


boars aren't big enough, maybe a dire boar?

I dont think you need the cavalier levels, look at skirmisher and horse lord I wouldnt loose any of that oomph by multi classing.

A full cavalier would lose favored enemy and skirmisher tricks, but pick up more feat accessibility as well as tactician/ and team work feats.

Emissary is a good one too, but they loose tactician.

The ranger horselord will pick up mounted skirmisher 4 levels earlier too. (at level 10 instead of level 14)

Beast Rider gets full levels to his animal, and can get a lion or tiger (or presumably something like a dire wolf) at 4th level, and doesn't lose tactician.

So might be a perfect choice. It sucks to lose the ranger favored enemy and free feat chains tho.

So it's a real hard one.

IF I was going to multiclass this I 'might' take a peak at ranger/inquisitor for some free feats and synergistic abilities. maybe the spell killer arcehtype, but I havent seen if there is a way to work it all in.

To be honest, depending on which way you go: I dont think multi class would be strong here.

Cavaler
Ranger
or the non mounted version mobile fighter who would have a lot more feats to play with here too.
Maybe even look at rough rider or dragoon, but I don't know I havent paid enough attention to them yet.

Scarab Sages

Prux wrote:

I rolled the following stats at the end of tonights session in front of the group: 18, 14, 8, 11, 14, 14

All official Pathfinder books are allowed.

I want to go with a melee fighter.

All races contained in the offical books can be used.

While not optimized for damage, this should be a fairly durable sword & board/twf fighter. There is very little adjustment made to swap elf for tiefling.

Of course, whatever you play should suit your personal play style and make you happy, so take something you will enjoy.


Prux wrote:

I rolled the following stats at the end of tonights session in front of the group: 18, 14, 8, 11, 14, 14

All official Pathfinder books are allowed.

I want to go with a melee fighter.

All races contained in the offical books can be used.

How about something simple:

STR 21 (18+2racial+1bump; all bumps)
INT 8
WIS 14
DEX 14
CON 14
CHA 11

Class: Fighter (Dawnflower Dervish)

Traits:
Defender of Society
Blade of Mercy

Feats:
Human: Enforcer
1st: Intimidating Prowess
Ftr1: Power Attack
Ftr2: Weapon Focus: Greatsword
3rd: Iron Will
Ftr4: Weapon Spec or Combat Reflexes
5th: Endurance
6th level: Living Monolith PrC
7th+ Fighter6 (2 feats).

Skills:
Intimidate (maxed)
Dips (4 skills for living monolith, then whatever to flavor)

It's fairly simple. You can elect to hit without penalty for non-lethal dealing +1 damage (via trait). You can demoralize everyone you do, as well as do so out of combat. You can enlarge as a swift action 3/day which should take the pressure off those looking to buff you as well as increase your range and ability to intimidate.

At higher levels (11+) you can move and still full attack, and near the end (15th) you can essentially flurry with any weapon.

-James


Dwarf Mobile fighter:
STR 18
Dex 15 (+1 from level 4)
Con 16 (+2 race)
Int 08
Wis 16 (+2 race) good save stat
Cha 09 (-2 race)

At level 1: Power attack, cleave
Level 2 Improved shield bash
Level 3: goblin hewer
Level 4: TWF
Level 5: Orc Hewer
Level 6: Great cleave
Level 7: Improved unarmed strike
At 8: dodge
At 9: Mobility
at 10: Combat reflexes
At 11: Strike Back
At 12: Giant Killer
At 13: Cleave through
At 14: Panther style
At 15: Panther claw
At 16: Panther Parry

The build tries to provoke attacks of opportunity through movement from giants, taking the AoOs and using them against the giants, by dancing in and out of their reach, I used TWF because the higher dex was necessary for combat reflexes to be worth it, but dropping TWF, and putting in spring attack might be a hoot as well.
Moving and working between TWO giants would be even better, triggering multiple AoOs
Higher dex isn't necessary because mobile fighter loses Armor training 3 and 4.

Stat pluses at 8, 12 and 16 could go into Str or con, possible 1 more for dex for that extra +1 but not overly needed.

No need in this build to get mithral armor, so I'd looking into dwarven plate for the DR


THF version of that guy:
Change the feats around a bit and have him fight with a dwarven long axe:
Lvl1: Power attack, cleave
at 2: Improved unarmed strike (so he can kick things that are inside his reach of the axe)
at3 : goblin hewer
at 4: Dodge
at 5: mobility
at 6 Orc hewer
at 7: Great cleave
at 8: Combat reflexes
at 9: Panther style
at 10: Panther claw
at 11: Strike back
at 12: Panther Parry
at 13: Giant Killer
at 14: Cleave through

He could bounce back and forth between shield and axe or long axe. just no extra attack losing a small bit of extra attack advantage from the mobile fighter build, but not a ton.
He gets certain feats earlier and all in all, probably doesn't lose out on number of attacks.
He could also save that +1 for dex at level 4 because it isnt needed, and roll into into con or strength earlier.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Broken Zenith wrote:
Damocles, you have some interesting builds floating around. Do you mind if I link a few of them?

Of course. One of these days I'm going to do the whole set... I've got a good dozen that I'm proud of and have had a lot of fun playing in the past.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A lot of good advice there, it'll take me a couple of days to research all of it and make a decision.

Regards

Prux


whats with the power gaming? make a character concept first before trying to make the big stupid fighter.


Alzar Malvado wrote:
whats with the power gaming? make a character concept first before trying to make the big stupid fighter.

What's with the telling others how to play? Play your way and let others do the same.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Damocles Guile wrote:
Prux wrote:
Do you have the Paladin build too?

Sure.

The key to the Paladin build is making maximum use of the one of the most potent abilities in the game - namely Lay on Hands. Forget Smite, great as it is, Lay on Hands allows you to heal yourself as a swift action, meaning that you can do so and still make a full attack, charge, double move, whatever.

Human Paladin (Oath of Vengeance)

Attributes:
STR - 14
DEX - 14
CON - 14
INT - 11 (+1 at 20th)
WIS - 8
CHA - 18 (+2 racial bonus, +1 at 4th, 8th, 12th and 16th)

Traits:
Reactionary
Purity of Faith

Feats:
1st - Fey Foundling
1st - Power Attack
3rd - Deadly Aim
5th - Extra Lay on Hands
7th - Extra Lay on Hands
9th - Extra Lay on Hands
11th - Extra Lay on Hands
13th - Extra Lay on Hands
15th - Extra Lay on Hands
17th - Greater Mercy
19th - Ultimate Mercy or Radiant Charge

My version of the character notmally carries a Greatsword and a Composite Bow, but you're free to use any weapons you like as you're not tied to anything specific.

Here's the deal - with Fey Foundling you gain an additional +2 hit points per die whenever you heal yourself or are healed by another (including channelling, I believe). That's huge. You also gain the benefits of Mercies when you self-heal or heal others which is also huge. Moreover, you know how awesome Smites are? Well, Oath of Vengeance allows you to sub some of those Lay on Hands in for extra Smites, so now you're fueling both your offense AND your defense. Power Attack and Deadly Aim were taken to make you equally dangerous in melee or at range when you're Smiting because the attack bonus should more than offset your penalty for using those feats. Also keep in mind the massive bonus to saving throws you'll be getting, all of those Paladin immunities and the auras you'll be generating to help protect your teammates.

Let me put this in perspective. Assuming no ability-boosting magic items, at 6th level you'll have 10 uses of Lay on Hands a day....

What would you recommend for a 20 point build?


If you want to take survival to a whole other level, the Unsanctioned Knowledge feat allows a Paladin to use Mirror Image. Spells/day is an issue, though you can use Pearls of Power. Unsanctioned also allows other interesting grabs like Timely Inspiration, Haste and Heroism. A Paladin protected by Mirror Image is a tough nut indeed.

Going the Improved Trip, Felling Smash, Greater Trip route is also interesting on a Paladin - their extra weapon enhancement, buffs and Smite all benefit tripping CMB, and if you take the Timely Inspiration spell with Unsanctioned you get a pretty awesome shot at a knockdown. Tripping can be useful on a full attack, but where it really shines is Felling Smashes, setting up a Greater Trip AoO that means two strikes with one standard attack. Nothing like a Felling Smite Evil Smash combo to stroll across the room and put the badguy on the floor.


If you are looking at survivability the paladin is probably the strongest class. The fighter can dish out the damage and gets lots of combat feats allowing a lot of options, but does not have as much defenses as the paladin. Paladins get fast progression on the two most important saves and get CHA to all saves at 2nd level. At third level you are immune to fear and disease. At 8th level you are immune to charm spells and spell like abilities. At 17th level the paladin becomes immune to compulsion spells and spell like abilities.

The fighter by comparison has a single good save and no bonus to the others. The base fighter does get bravery and armor training but these are often traded away if you take an archetype. Armor training will allow a slightly better AC if you have the DEX to take advantage of it. Bravery is flat out inferior to aura of courage.

Lay on hands combined with Fey Foundling is probably the strongest build for pure survivability. The Demon-Spawn Tiefling is one of the better builds, but half orcs actually make good paladins also. The thing that makes the half orc stand out is ferocious resolve. This gives you the full ferocity ability instead of allowing you to fight for one more round. Combine this with swift lay on hands and you literally have to be killed to be taken down.

Dark Archive

The hard-to-kill paladin builds on here are good, but I would suggest you take a look at Pitborn Tiefling as an option, rather than Human. Start at level 6 with a 20 STR (18+2 racial), and an 17 CHA (14+2 racial l+1 bump). All future bumps to CHA, Make sure you take advantage of Fey Foundling at first level and then use the Tiefling paladin favored class option to add to your personal lay on hands: your LOH will be high enough to keep you up pretty easily with those LOH bonuses. Why 20 STR? When you are fighting stuff that isn't evil, you will need high STR for attack and damage bonuses. Go with your choise of 2 handed weapon, or switch to whatever cool magic weapon is in the latest treasure: there's no real need for you to specialize overly much as a paladin.

I love fighter builds, but if you really want to ensure that you aren't going to die, go with the hard-to-kill paladin.

If you have a good healer in the party and just want to lay down some smack, there are lots of great fighter builds that would be easy to work off of with those rolls!


Ultimately some kind of arcane Fighter is arguably the most difficult to kill - defend with things like Shield, Mirror Image, Displacement and Greater Invisibility; hop around with things like Dimensional Slide, Teleportation subschool or eventually Dimensional Dervish; turn into giant killing machines, like a Kalikang with a greatsword using Overland Flight. If done very carefully, you can even bring along some specialized effective control spells. I'm not sure there's any real martial equivalent to dropping confusion on a good part of an enemy force and charging with Mirror Image.


Prux wrote:
...Rise of the Runelords... In a vain attempt not to die, I've decided that I'm going to create a fighter this time around...I'll be starting at 6th level.

Oy... if you try this solution to that problem? You're gonna have a bad time.

Dark Archive

BadBird wrote:
Ultimately some kind of arcane Fighter is arguably the most difficult to kill - defend with things like Shield, Mirror Image, Displacement and Greater Invisibility; hop around with things like Dimensional Slide, Teleportation subschool or eventually Dimensional Dervish; turn into giant killing machines, like a Kalikang with a greatsword using Overland Flight. If done very carefully, you can even bring along some specialized effective control spells. I'm not sure there's any real martial equivalent to dropping confusion on a good part of an enemy force and charging with Mirror Image.

Arcane Fighter types might be the last to die in a TPK, but I would argue that they generally have some of the worst offensive output, which means they don't usually pull their weight. If you can't be effective without wasting a round or two to buff yourself, you aren't contributing to the group's success. If you can find some way to NOT waste round buffing (Magus? Quickened spells?), an arcane fighter can be helpful, but I would say most of the arcane melee builds that I have seen in action haven't been very effective.


Argus The Slayer wrote:
Arcane Fighter types might be the last to die in a TPK, but I would argue that they generally have some of the worst offensive output, which means they don't usually pull their weight. If you can't be effective without wasting a round or two to buff yourself, you aren't contributing to the group's success. If you can find some way to NOT waste round buffing (Magus? Quickened spells?), an arcane fighter can be helpful, but I would say most of the arcane melee builds that I have seen in action haven't been very effective.

It really does depend on the mindset going into it. If the primary goal is to be an arcane fighter, rather than to build a wizard and then try to somehow salvage offense with loaded buffing, it works a whole lot better.

As a random example, Urban Barbarian 1/ Fey Sorcerer 6/ Eldritch Knight X; Dual Talent Human - 16/18, 12, 14, 15/17, 8, 8; Traits - Magical Knack and Wayang Spell Hunter: Hideous Laughter; Feats - Arcane Armor Training, Power Attack, Extra Rage, Weapon Focus, Persistent Spell.

BAB is 3 lower than a martial character, but 10min/level Heroism and taking 1 less of a Power Attack penalty already covers that gap. Rage is Rage, but it begins only when you 'flip the switch' to go full-on melee. Greater Magic Weapon on a Furious Weapon is an extremely handy way to get a +4 weapon. Defensively, a mithral kikko is pretty close to a breastplate, while Mirror Image is the one min/level pre-buff that should be pretty standard. There are no necessary round/level buffs, though you can save the Wizard the trouble of casting Haste if so inclined; things like Vanish can have pretty wonderful tactical applications.

Spellcasting is somewhat weaker generally, but Persistent Hideous Laughter with the +2DC from Fey adds a potent control option. Confusion is also +2DC. The Laughing Touch power - especially when applied through your (+4)+1 Furious, Conductive weapon - is a pretty fantastic perk as well.

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