I've never built a Gunslinger before, so I'm playing with a few things here and there to raise a Gunsligner's AC.
I'll start with stats and go from there. Currently his stats are as follows at level 12:
Str: 15
Dex: 22 (base 18; +2 for being human, +1 @ lvl 4, +1 @ lvl 8)
Con: 13
Int: 18
Wis: 13
Cha: 11
Feats: Armor Proficiency(Light), Catch Off-Guard, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Exotic Weapon Proficiecny(Firearms), Gunsmithing, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload (Revolver), Simple Weapon Proficiency, and Two-Weapon Fighting
Gunslinger Feats: Bludgeoner, Bullseye Shot, and Deadly Aim
Gunslinger Training Choices: Revolver, Rifle
'Abilities': Human Racial Trait (Bonus Feat, Skilled), Ability Bonus (+2 Dex), Favored Class (Gunslinger), and Favored Class Bonus (Bonus HP 11x)
HP: 144
Race: Human (Mwangi Expanse)
BAB: +12/+7/+2
Initiative: +6
AC: 17 (before armor); 21 (w/Mithral Shirt)
Flatfooted: 10 (before armor); 14 (w/Mithral Shirt)
Touch: 17
Fort: +9
Ref: +14
Will: +5
CMB: +14
CMD: 31
Weaponry: Revolver (x2), Rifle
Armor: Mithral Shirt
What I'm wanting to do is raise his AC a bit hire. A 21 as an AC at level 12 is too low in my opinion, I just don't know how to go about raising it at this point.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Note: I'm using PCGen to generate him, so if there's any mistakes, please let me know.
Unless I'm missing something, my immediate choice would be the best belt of incredible dexterity I could afford - improves AC and shooting.
Beyond that rings of protection, amulets of natural armour etc.
At 12th level though you might be better off looking for items that give you a miss chance - avoid blinking because it'll mess up your shooting, but a cloak of displacement or similar might be worth looking into.
Awesome! Thanks to you both!
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Get a Mithril breastplate and take the trait that subtracts one from your armor check penalty. That'll add one more AC than you have now wearing a Mithral shirt.
Not a good idea for a gunslinger.
If only wearing at most light armor, a gunslinger gets a bonus to AC (+1 at level 2, +2 at level 6, +3 at level 10, ...) So by level 6 the benefit of the breastplate vs. the shirt is negated; by level 10 the chain shirt offers better AC, as well as a lower Armor Check penalty.BTW - I didn't see that "Nimble" bonus factored in to the original AC.
Bump your wis and go monk for a few lvls.
Thanks to you all for the help so far. If anyone has any further suggestions, keep 'em coming. I'm still meshing out a few things with this one.
@Nefreet, I went with the Mithral shirt for the reasons that JohnF said.
@kmal2t, I noticed that it was non-existent after I posted this. I don't think PCGen added it in for some reason. Possibly a glitch with the system.
@JohnF, is Nimble something that I should get automatically or is it a feat that you're suggesting I take in place of something? I'm very new to the gunslinger class. I usually run a Fighter since everyone else I play with runs spellcasters or Barbarians typically.
@Byrdology, I've never played a monk before or really read too far into them. Is there a benefit of taking monk for two or three levels? I probably could regress the Gunslinger down to level 9 and progress three levels of Monk to make a level 12 gunslinger/monk hybrid.
Thanks again, everyone!
That is a lot of Int and a relatively low Wis, for a character that uses Wis for his Grit Pool.
If you swapped them you'd still be getting 6 skill points a level, which should be plenty.
With more Grit you could play a little safer by using Deadeye.
Gunslinger 5/ monk x works well. Pick up a temple sword, and flurry with it at pb range.
@Maezer, yeah. It's a pain in the arse to find the right type of armor. I was looking at a bracers, amulets, and the like after what you and Lawmonger suggested earlier.
@Petty Alchemy, true. I didn't even think of that. I was looking at having a higher intelligence so I could take a few more languages since I wanted this character to have a well-traveled background. I think making the swap of Int for Wis is a good idea. Thanks for pointing that out to me.
@Byrdology, we'd be looking at Gunslinger 5/Monk 7. Great suggestion on the temple sword.
Get a Mithril breastplate and take the trait that subtracts one from your armor check penalty. That'll add one more AC than you have now wearing a Mithral shirt.Not a good idea for a gunslinger.
If only wearing at most light armor, a gunslinger gets a bonus to AC (+1 at level 2, +2 at level 6, +3 at level 10, ...) So by level 6 the benefit of the breastplate vs. the shirt is negated; by level 10 the chain shirt offers better AC, as well as a lower Armor Check penalty.BTW - I didn't see that "Nimble" bonus factored in to the original AC.
mithral lowers it to light though, so it should still work with that.
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@JohnF, is Nimble something that I should get automatically
It's an automatic class feature of a gunslinger.
I never noticed that text about Mithtral reducing the armo(u)r weight category (although I did spot the increased limits for Dexterity bonus, etc.); Maybe my gunslinger needs to reconsider switching to a breastplate before enchanting his shirt any more! I can manage the cost, but the extra feat (medium armor proficiency) is an issue; the armour check penalty to damage would be annoying.
Wear a buckler.
I've never built a Gunslinger before, so I'm playing with a few things here and there to raise a Gunsligner's AC.
I'll start with stats and go from there. Currently his stats are as follows at level 12:
Str: 15
Dex: 22 (base 18; +2 for being human, +1 @ lvl 4, +1 @ lvl 8)
Con: 13
Int: 18
Wis: 13
Cha: 11Feats: Armor Proficiency(Light), Catch Off-Guard, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Exotic Weapon Proficiecny(Firearms), Gunsmithing, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload (Revolver), Simple Weapon Proficiency, and Two-Weapon Fighting
Gunslinger Feats: Bludgeoner, Bullseye Shot, and Deadly Aim
Gunslinger Training Choices: Revolver, Rifle'Abilities': Human Racial Trait (Bonus Feat, Skilled), Ability Bonus (+2 Dex), Favored Class (Gunslinger), and Favored Class Bonus (Bonus HP 11x)
HP: 144
Race: Human (Mwangi Expanse)
BAB: +12/+7/+2
Initiative: +6AC: 17 (before armor); 21 (w/Mithral Shirt)
Flatfooted: 10 (before armor); 14 (w/Mithral Shirt)
Touch: 17Fort: +9
Ref: +14
Will: +5CMB: +14
CMD: 31Weaponry: Revolver (x2), Rifle
Armor: Mithral ShirtWhat I'm wanting to do is raise his AC a bit hire. A 21 as an AC at level 12 is too low in my opinion, I just don't know how to go about raising it at this point.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Note: I'm using PCGen to generate him, so if there's any mistakes, please let me know.
Pfft. Who needs AC? Build for speed killing,they can't hurt you if they are shot full of holes and dying.
Why do you have combat reflexes? You don't even have a melee weapon
It's there in the event that I have him use a melee weapon mostly.
@JohnF, is Nimble something that I should get automaticallyIt's an automatic class feature of a gunslinger.
I never noticed that text about Mithtral reducing the armo(u)r weight category (although I did spot the increased limits for Dexterity bonus, etc.); Maybe my gunslinger needs to reconsider switching to a breastplate before enchanting his shirt any more! I can manage the cost, but the extra feat (medium armor proficiency) is an issue; the armour check penalty to damage would be annoying.
Ah, I didn't realize that. I don't know why it didn't give me that off the bat. PCGen is weird like that.
Wear a buckler.
Not a bad idea.
Pfft. Who needs AC? Build for speed killing,they can't hurt you if they are shot full of holes and dying.I've never built a Gunslinger before, so I'm playing with a few things here and there to raise a Gunsligner's AC.
I'll start with stats and go from there. Currently his stats are as follows at level 12:
Str: 15
Dex: 22 (base 18; +2 for being human, +1 @ lvl 4, +1 @ lvl 8)
Con: 13
Int: 18
Wis: 13
Cha: 11Feats: Armor Proficiency(Light), Catch Off-Guard, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Exotic Weapon Proficiecny(Firearms), Gunsmithing, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload (Revolver), Simple Weapon Proficiency, and Two-Weapon Fighting
Gunslinger Feats: Bludgeoner, Bullseye Shot, and Deadly Aim
Gunslinger Training Choices: Revolver, Rifle'Abilities': Human Racial Trait (Bonus Feat, Skilled), Ability Bonus (+2 Dex), Favored Class (Gunslinger), and Favored Class Bonus (Bonus HP 11x)
HP: 144
Race: Human (Mwangi Expanse)
BAB: +12/+7/+2
Initiative: +6AC: 17 (before armor); 21 (w/Mithral Shirt)
Flatfooted: 10 (before armor); 14 (w/Mithral Shirt)
Touch: 17Fort: +9
Ref: +14
Will: +5CMB: +14
CMD: 31Weaponry: Revolver (x2), Rifle
Armor: Mithral ShirtWhat I'm wanting to do is raise his AC a bit hire. A 21 as an AC at level 12 is too low in my opinion, I just don't know how to go about raising it at this point.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Note: I'm using PCGen to generate him, so if there's any mistakes, please let me know.
How would you go about that? What feats do you suggest?
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If you are ok on having a -4 penalty to attacks, you can fight defensivly to get a +2 AC (Dodge). If you have at least 3 ranks in Acrobatics, you gain another +1 AC (Dodge). If you dip into monk like Byrdology stated before, you can try getting the Monk of Many Styles Archetype to get Crane Style, which in turn, when you fight defensivly, you gain another +1 AC (Dodge) while reducing the penalty of fighting defensivly by 2.
So overall, if you dip into MoMS (Crane Style) while fighting defensivly, you gain:
-2 Attack
+4 Dodge (AC)
And since it is a Dodge bonus, you gain that to your CMD as well!
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Pfft. Who needs AC? Build for speed killing,they can't hurt you if they are shot full of holes and dying.How would you go about that? What feats do you suggest?
The basic trick is two-weapon fighting, rapid reload, alchemical cartridges, and weapon cords.
You can take all your iteratives with your primary weapon (at TWF BAB of +10/+5/+0), reloading with alchemical cartridges as a free action between shots, then switch to your second weapon (a swift action using weapon cords) and take however many shots you get with that in the same fashion. Next round follows the same pattern, interchanging the roles of primary and secondary weapons. It might be a bit cheesy, but it's technically RAW-legal.
With enchanted weapons against touch AC you'll have a pretty good chance of hitting on the main shot and the first iterative, and might even hit on the second iterative. That's a decent number of hits per round. You might not approach the sheer DPR of a raging barbarian or a zen archer, but it's respectable.
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My Gunslinger-6/Paladin-2 in PFS has an AC of 29.
10 Base
+5 from a Dex of 20
+8 from a Mithral Agile Breastplate +2
+2 from a Mithral Buckler +1
+2 from Nimble
+1 from Dodge (took Mobility, too, so another circumstantial +4)
+1 from a Ring of Protection +1
Taking levels in Paladin gave me the Medium Armor Proficiency to be able to wear the Breastplate with no penalties, but a Mithral Breastplate only has an ACP of -1, so if you don't want to multiclass you can just take a trait to lower your ACP by one and you're good to go. Nimble works when wearing it just fine.
If you wear a Buckler, though, keep in mind that any round you use that hand to wield a weapon, even if you're just firing your gun with it, you lose the Shield Bonus to AC until your next round. But it's still good during most other situations.
As others have said, purchasing a Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier, or a Dusty Rose Ioun Stone, or an Amulet of Natural Armor are all good choices, too.
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Oh! Almost forgot. As silly as it sounds, you can fight defensively when shooting your gun, so if you put 3 ranks into Acrobatics you can gain a +3 Dodge bonus during rounds when you make an attack or a full-attack. Sure, you're taking a -4 to hit, but at your level, with touch attacks, it really won't matter.
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If you can afford it, pick up Celestial Armor. Base chainmail is +6, but this is a +3 variant so it's a +9 to AC - and you retain up to +8 DEX bonus. Pick up a +2 DEX belt as well. Looking over your stats, that should give you:
10 base AC + 8 DEX + 9 Armor + 3 Nimble = AC 30.
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Note that you may still have to pick up Medium Armor Proficiency in order to wear it, as the statement "counts as light armor" may or may not be considered for proficiency purposes. RAW, I don't think it is; as an example, take a look at elven chain, which specifically calls out that it's considered light even for proficiency purposes...
I noticed you're using a revolver. This tells me advanced guns are available.. Are advanced firearms common in your campaign: IE, does the DM often use them against you?
If so, and Amulet of Bullet deflection is really handy. If you are using single revolver, then you have a hand free, which is just begging you to go into either
1. Deflect Arrows if there are a lot of enemy firearm wielders.
2. Crane Style for anything else.
Would recommend at least giving those some consideration. Crane Style in particular can be used to improve your AC while fighting defensively (combine with the 3 rank acrobatics trick for maximum results).
Pistolero, high initiative, rapid shot and deadly aim and be sure to have plenty of grit. Later,begin adding enhancements and special abilities to your gun. You should need very little effort for your AC and at high levels it is almost irrelevant anyway as attack bonuses scale faster sooo...just be sure you go first and kill them all. No joke.
Two pistols of the infinite sky and who care about reload. Granted it is something like +200K, so I am mostly joking.
those are 120k each I think so the 200k estimate is actually conservative.
Hmmm. I've got a lot to take in here. Thanks everyone for the added input. I really appreciate it.
@awp832, at present time, there's only been one actual NPC that's been shown using a revolver, and back with our old group, we had one PC that was allowed to use one as well. At present time, much of our old group has disbanded and only two members of it still remain. We currently have three new players. For this part of the campaign, we're playing through the events that lead up to the previous groups dealings, and then I'm DMing my own gladiatorial campaign in Cheliax that's basically telling the story of another NPC, the events that led up to his freedom, and those who helped him along the way (the players).