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You can try to paint me as a powergamer but people who have seen me post here many times know this is not accurate.

It isn't the Storyteller's fault that someone is a munchkin. It IS his fault if out of control powergaming occurs in his game because he allowed it to happen.

Except it really isn't.

It's like making characters that are commoner level 1 that may get to 5 at tops..and sending them into the Epic Dungeon full of Dragons and monsters so that they may pick off a goblin here and there and then run. Great..and when you come back there's 3 more goblins in their place.

If you're going to make these games you either need to make the players capable more or the world less daunting and unchangeable.

Why is that link not working for me?? Relink?

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1. I didn't start this thread to draw attention. Someone else created it.

2. The fact he brought up people wanting to ban me just makes me want to speak my mind while they push on banning me. I'm not going to kiss people's rear on a FORUM (or anywhere else for that matter). I never attacked their character and said they were evil or something. I said what I thought about his post toward me.

It would make sense just to have one On going thread discussing thread locks just as there is one for spam bots. This is where people could at least get an EXPLANATION for a thread lock. If you're going to lock a thread that has gone on pages the least you can do is give a one or two sentence explanation. If people are spending SO much of their time moderating I'm sure 10 seconds could be spared for this.

I unfortunately don't have the text in front of me but, again, WoD books if I remember correctly gave pretty explicit power to the Storyteller because there was so much grey area. If you don't use it to reel the game in and let players go crazy then that's the Storyteller's fault.

There are some things that really deserved houseruling like Celerity. It should be pretty obvious that letting someone easily attack (5?) times a round is a mistake.

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I'm sure I'm going to hear the same argument about their support that Supply in the military gives to Infantry

"Hey! Without Supply, bullets don't fly!"

Ya, herp-derp. Don't care.

Do I think threads should be locked as much? Not really, but considering we've realized at this point you can just start new threads on the same topic (assuming its not about something really crazy) its not really the end of the world.

you're missing the point.

Do the people who received the aid care? That's what matters. They don't care about the intent of the good..only that the good happened and their not cold or hungry.

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I frankly don't remotely care what Liz, Jessica, or Chris think because I'm sure its one of them that's said it. When they add to the creative of a game and it's design and aren't replaceable like other logistical businessmen to a product then maybe I'll value their opinion.

MANY barbs are thrown back and forth on here by a NUMBER of different people. When one is directed at me, yes, I generally send one right back. That being said, these arguments (before mods have gotten to them) have never devolved into "Your momma is so.." or "I hope you die in a ..." . Even the heated discussions are still about the thread.

In FACT, many times by the time a mod gets to it the conversation has already gone back to the discussion and the argument is gone...but then they come back and delete posts so it makes the conversation confusing for those trying to catch up. It's un-derailing threads that have already corrected themselves.

You make it sound like these people begrudgingly mod threads out of some martyred sacrifice for justice. I think they like the authority they have to do it and if they have it want to exercise it occasionally instead of doing nothing at all. I guarantee if I wasn't here, other lesser offenses would get moderated just to use mod privileges.

The holocaust rests pretty damn heavily on Hitler and his personality. WWII and the Holocaust was not an inevitability.

Things like WWII is what lead to a strong EU and UN. It also curbed our out of control population growth slightly. It has also led to out of control paranoia about who the next Hitler is going to be.

So then which is better "good"

a bunch of not caring people who donate their tax dollars which help save thousands of lives around the world.

Or the few who actually do care that donate directly and save a few hundred?

I'm sure the thousands saved really give a crap about the apathy of their donors, so which really is the greater good.

Except not everyone is a Christian that believes in the soul the way Kant did...and it has to follow a universal

"Baby killing is always bad"

which can easily be contested with conditions such as

"But what if the baby carries some mutated virus that will kill all of mankind?"

How causative do you want to get on this Hama? Do you think Hitler's parents KNEW they were going to make one of the biggest monsters in history??

Maybe their parents should be punished? Or theirs? Or maybe one of their ancestors was actually Jesus and he should be punished...oh wait...

Something being BAD for your health does not necessarily mean it is BAD morally. The argument can be made by Mills/Betham or others that to kill a child in itself is bad, but to kill a child to save 5,000 children isn't necessarily.

It's not to say I agree with this, but they make strong arguments for their point.

What if Hitler had been raised by the Cosby's?

And the argument of intent vs. consequence has been argued for centuries. I'm glad you guys solved it in this thread with the Infallible Alignment System.

Considering how much GM Fiat is given in WW games, the system isn't that easy to break unless you have a spineless Storyteller that lets you get away with every interpretation you have for the rules.

I liked the idea of Werewolf and Hunter, and I didn't need to be a god to play it...but on SOME level you have to be able to actually make a DENT in the system. Hunter was a bunch of unremarkable mortals who could have no impact on the WoD unless you really bent the system to make them better. Same with Werewolf. A bunch of hippie furballs living in the woods that there is NO way they could put a dent in the system that vampires have created. You should at least be able to feel like you're making SOME difference.

*lol I meant Diane Lane. Sorry for the mix up.

*And yes, of course its Lois not louis. I made it the man's name several times. Probably because I'm so used to the Smallville Lois being so manly.

I miss kids in the hall :(



Ghost sound allows you to create a volume of sound that rises, recedes, approaches, or remains at a fixed place. You choose what type of sound ghost sound creates when casting it and cannot thereafter change the sound's basic character.

Thus, talking, singing, shouting, walking, marching, or running sounds can be created. The noise a ghost sound spell produces can be virtually any type of sound within the volume limit. A horde of rats running and squeaking...A roaring lion...roaring dragon...Anyone who hears a ghost sound receives a Will save to disbelieve.

Several things.

1) It's a 0 level spell so you can't expect it to do much
2) Look at context of other spells such as message or other things that would allow you to create audible words/sentences
3) It's an ILLUSION spell. What is created "makes sense" to those who perceive it. Just like everyone hears different lyrics when hearing the 70s song "Blinded by the Light", what one character hears as weird gibberish and doesn't buy, to the guy who believes it, it comes across as a conversation even though he's not perceiving any actual words. I would say definitively that no you can't make it spell out things like "RUN AWAY PEASANT!" or things like that. It just makes sound like the thing(s) you're trying to imitate.. as the examples imply.

Btw, I really doubt anyone at paizo could give a crap about monitoring the moderators. They have other things to deal with like budgets and deadlines.

"If you look at the description of LG, that's pretty much what it is. There are right ways to do things because they are the right ways, and not doing them is the wrong way.*"

*By Kant's point of view

And so people know who aren't familiar with Kant, the intent is what matters not the consequence (like some later writers contended).

I wasn't confused by your meaning. Just explaining what I think he was talking about. Btw, I highly doubt people will port over to a new forum just to argue about a thread from here. You never know though.

Uh oh. Kant got brought into this conversation.

S**T just go realz.

how is a person "ordered"? Orderly? Follows his own code and precepts? Because in that case it's basically still talking about what the person defines as Good.

If I follow the 10 commandments as my "code" that is a value judgement I'm making on what precepts and codes I believe to be right or wrong.

so...someone who believes in creating order...pretty sure that's what laws are intended to do.

we could get into the reason and logic of this, but it looks like what he's talking about is how you are creating a false scenario.

They don't have to make a choice on it because they don't have to deliberate on whether or not to lock threads just like I don't have to decide on whether to eat cookies or pie when neither of them are in my house. It's a voluntary choice on deliberating on threads. I want cookies.

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Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Avatar-1 wrote:
The solution to that is to have unofficial moderators; have someone at Paizo who just has to moderate the moderator's activity.
Who will moderate the moderator moderators?

Edward Snowden.

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And corrupt is up to the individual. I could say the U.S. system is pretty corrupt, but I abide by the laws.

And what about intention?

I don't obey all the laws because I think they're right. I do some because I don't want to get a fine or go to jail.

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the fact that these are modern examples is irrelevant because they are minor laws that its arguable whether they're hurting anyone.

These laws exist in all eras. You're supposed to, by law, cow tow to the emperor in imperial China. This is a pretty big law..And what if I don't? Am I no longer lawful good?

DrDeth wrote:

My advice here, strongly, is to run a AP for a few months then go back and see what your campaign looks like to you.

AP= Pathfinder Adventure Path. Rise of the Runelords, e.g.

This. Before releasing it, run an AP for a little bit then modify yours to make it better based on how these "traintracked" campaigns work.


I am still curious if, because they sell a product and it's probably rated to certain groups, Paizo has any legal obligations or risk by what is said on these forums.

Could, theoretically, people post porn all over the site or graphic images? Could they post Mein Kempf and hate speech? I don't know if there's a legal guy on these boards that could answer this or not.

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How lawful is lawful?

I would be considered a pretty lawful person..would I be "breaking my alignment" by downloading music and occasionally jaywalking when the crosswalk is a 1/2 mile away?

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You're honestly surprised that a conversation about MMO and RPGs turned to 4e?



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Here is the real version of the response you're going to get: If you don't like the way we're doing it you can post in customer service where it will be ignored or locked or email customer service where it will be deleted.

"Devil's Advocate" wrote:
The Bard thing is a 3E sort of inside joke, because it was referred to as the most useless class in the game.

I hadn't even considered that. Because the DM even looks at him kind of funny like "A bard??" It was 3.0 and not even 3.5 wasn't it?

He INSISTED on her using it like a douche.

The DM did change some of his ways by not having the Paladin totally babysit and he wandered off when people got tortured. He also didn't just throw down a hailstorm when people got blown up, he made consequences like the God viewing his char as evil. Should the change to cleric be mandatory? No, and the player said "sure whatever" to the change. He didn't say NO! and then get it pushed on him.

As for the whole thing about the Bard dying I don't think that was him getting targeted as much as an on-going joke for the movie that he is "that guy" who's char is always dying.

In terms of who was worse, Cass was 100x worse than Lodge. Lodge just needed to work on his scenario to not make it unbeatable and to make the clues more obvious of what the players need to do.

As was said, because D&D was taken and they need something that sounds fantasy and equivalent. "Creepy Underground Lair to Hold Enemies & Mythical Reptile Beasts 3.75" Is probably not a title that is going to sell books.

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Now Nymian...

Do you want to do the bare minimum? Or do you want to express yourself? You want to express yourself, right?

Ah so it was Hunter. I thought so. That's probably your first mistake lol. I bought it but when I really looked over it it was kind of a pointless game as everything was sooo underpowered there was no way you'd ever do more than kill a neonate. Maybe Ancilae at best. It was also before integration so you'd have to know Vampire to be able to play that at all.

Either way being on sex chat rooms at a session is strange behavior..I don't know what type of friends you have to be friends with this guy .

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I didn't see anyone reply to what I said, but again, Paladins made mroe sense in 2e when they were a special class you had to have good enough Ability Scores to qualify for. It bcomes a little more muddled when they're a base class just like everything else.

Do I really need to provide examples?

1. Him saying no game can beat him.
2. Him insisting on using his bikini mail character for the girl when she made her own and him telling her she can't play it.
3. Them all metagaming and insisting they just go straight to the mountain (led by cass).
4. Him yelling at the girl at the end telling her it was the stupidest decision ever made in a game.
5. Him insisting on playing a monk elf when it was already agreed upon that wasn't part of the setting.
6. Him insisting he gets a roll for the being possessed by the demon (ok whatever) and then pouting when he rolls a 1 and his char gets taken

This could go on forever. The DM had issues in his style as brought up with convos with the girl, but Cass was clearly being a complete douche throughout the game.

Well in the show Lana was 3000x hotter than Louis anyway. And tbh Louis always came across as Clark's lesbian buddy in the show.

You watched this...and your big issue is the DM???


The monk acted like a munchkining A-Hole the entire game. He should have left and found a game that matches his playing Warhammer 40k.

If you create a thread mentioning MMOs and RPGs, 4e will inevitably be brought up. I can't think of another RPG where those two things are correlated by players more.

YOu could argue the fact that games like PF have a zillion classes and archetypes is like MMOs as well. Everyone wants cool powers and something to give them an edge.

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It seems like players make the assumption the game is "railroaded" a certain way just to f#~~ with them and control them and their characters. No...its because the DM has certain things written on his notes and if you do something 180 degrees different it means he has nothing to use for the next 3 hours. DMs have to be creative and flexible, but if there is a whole plot going on where you're at in NYC you can't say "well my character takes a vacation to Mexico" and expect this session to be able to continue.

Ok, because I was always under the impression she was a part of the Superman storyline besides Smallville.

Who was Whitney? Was that the token black guy friend in the show? I remember Chloe though. What ever happened to her, she was pretty and had a great smile.

functionally (mechanically) it is different based on you are using an outside source for it. Its not a class/PC function so you have to go buy it.

fluff-wise it's stupid because well..what we've been talking about. Either way I never said healing surges were the end of the world or not something that works for 4e..but lets call it what it is.

And I would say PF and others are influenced by MMOs or games in general with the influence of Final Fantasy and other stuff that use Japanese/asian culture.

Hama wrote:
Limeylongears wrote:

My 4e group plays online, via Maptools; the GM's kindly set up a load of macros for each of our powers, so I suppose it plays very much like a video game. Would that be as easy with 3.5/PF? Not sure, though we can roll a virtual d20 vs. AC the traditional way if we want to.

Personally, I feel that it works pretty well, I enjoy it a lot, character creation is an absolute doddle and there's plenty of space for roleplaying if that's what you want to do - I'm not keen on MMOs and have never played MtG, so make of that what you will.

There doesn't seem to be very much fluff at all, though, unless I'm looking in the wrong place, and that's where Pathfinder really is ahead of the pack. Plus, I never thought there was much wrong with 3.5, but then again, I'm easily pleased ;)

Man, you should see fluff in 2E monstrous manual. Now that was the bomb. Sometimes 2 pages of pure fluff, and a tiny stat block with a picture on top.

This is an example. It usually had a full page of text.

Are you sure that was from the 2e MM? I seem to remember it having different color and format scheme and all the pictures being color.

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