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Ahh, thanks, almost missed that. That seems a little odd although I gues the four elements always have been e/a/f/w. I wonder how many water spells there actually are, because most I've seen are cold spells.

Also, for ninjas, I REALLY like dipping Oracle with the waves mystery so that I can get water sight. A wand of Obscuring Mist means that my flurry of shuriken will ALWAYS be sneak attacks.

Ya, thats a good trick. Works well with slayer/archer too, I have a player using it very effectively.

One level of fighter for heavy armor and a feat.

You get both those things and more out of cavalier (gendermae) assuming you need power attack, or one of the other bonus feats it provides. It more limited, but since most people dipping fighter will want power attack anyway, the cavalier is a stronger dip.

But so is the summoner, the synth is not more op, and arguably less op. But the entire class is pretty poorly designed from a balance perspective whether synth or not. An eidilon just tends to be much easier to break than other martial classes. The only reasonable variant is the first world summoner, who is probably somewhat under powered.

I've seen a fair number of standard and synth summoners, and the flying reach pounce is good whether someones inside or not. When he's not inside he can also buff him every round, making him even better. Ring of invisibility plus overland flight will make the summoner nearly untouchable assuming he just sits back and buffs. He can then apply all remaining gear to his summon because he's not a real target, so the eidilon is near full wbl with a self-buffing bard companion.

A wizard will probably take a PRC, certainly after level 8 there is little reason to stay in the class, and depending on school it may not be worth staying in until 8. Sorcerers have much more incentive to stay in their class.

A wizard can make all the knowledge checks.

A sorcerer can rock all the social things.

The real question is, why not play an Arcanist! Best of all worlds, bloodline, school and more!

It can be any skill. It gives you +your level in skill ranks, but they don't stack with points you already have in the skill, they overlap, so you use whichever is higher.

Clectabled is correct. It grants you skill points for a single skill, which is locked in like the headband. They clarified this a few years back, unfortunately I don't have a link to that discussion.

When ever you run a game you get a chronicle just as if you were a player, and you can apply it to a pre existing character or a new character.

The GM section for PFS is Chapter 7(Page 30) of the season 5 ruleset. Page 37 specifically talks about applying your chronicles and such.

I don't think this thread was referring to PFS specifically. But I will say, MOST pfs builds are built for DPS, and you usually have plenty at the table. I have had 2 games where nearly everyone was a control caster of some kind. Its hilarious when the enemies are blinded, stunned, in pits and prone, and the party collectively is doing like 10d6 damage a round;) Having a heavy hitter in that situation is certainly better than the defense, since all the enemies are worthless anyway.

That being said, the defense game is hard to win. I actually have a few defensive builds that work quite well, but it takes much more rule mastery and optimizing to make them work. And a lot of money has to be thrown into defense. By level 10 or so, if you aren't rocking 33+ AC, your badly loosing the AC game, and I won't go the defense route unless I can reasonably get to 35+ by level 10.

I agree, killing is better defense than AC in PF, most of the time.

Clectabled wrote:

Sound to me like you created an encounter specifically to kill a PC.. That's always fun as a player.. (please note the sarcasm)

It was a published scenario. The encounter was published by people who had never met the OP or his group. Not really the GM creating an encounter specifically to kill someone.

The boss fights of AP's can be stupidly hard. I ran Carrion Crown, and I will vouch they have boss encounters that are basically made to TPK the party if they can't figure out one little thing, or fail a DC 24 saving throw at level 9. Wiped out my entire party the opening round on a boss fight, following his tactics. Only the Animal Companion survived, who ironically enough actually then killed the boss.

Run some games and apply your GM credit to your character.

Oops, I suck, ignore me.

You should've just coup de gras him, no problem with rule interpretation there.

"You take 20 damage, give me a DC 30 fort save. Roll a nat 20 or you die."

Seriously though, this sounds like the crap that would happen when I GM'd in middle school. I'd evaluate whether you really want to run for people like that. GMing is hard work, and if your group is sissies, well, I may just drop the group.

Others have said killing sleeping PC's is a low blow, but I disagree. Does the party have a chance to set up watch? Do they have spells that can help protect them? I wouldn't start doing it a lot, but once or twice in a campaign is legit. Sure, it sucks when you die that way, but in RL bad guys would do that.

Summons rock, although cutting down to core material gives you slightly less to work with. What you need to realize is it an extremely versatile spell and they have their purpose at the right time. Admittedly, if your encounters last 2-3 rounds...you may want to focus on the other conjuration spells. Your GM should probably up the anti, too. When I run non-pfs games I design encounters to last 7-10 rounds, to drain peoples resources more and give some near useless abilities more use.

So, with summon monster 4 you have a many choices, but a few good situational ones are:

1) Earth Elemental - see invisbility7 if the opponent is touching the ground, make sure you can hit with your glitterdust. Granted, see invisibility does the same thing but it doesn't punch afterwards and has less versatility in a spell slot.

2) Mephits - there are 12 mephits, some have one or 2 good spells. For instance, Summon an ooze mephit, have it stinking cloud and acid arrow, then fly in to its doom. It will eat a hit or two that should have gone to someone else.

3) Assuming Superior summoning: 1d3+1 Dretches. First round drop x stinking clouds. The saves only DC 13, but 4 of those really increases the odds of failure. Afterwards they can run in and attack, as they are immune to the stinking cloud effects.

4) The Dire Boar: He's got 5 HD so gains DR at this level. Not the best meat shield, but gives flanking and will take a few hits.

5) Giant Wasp: Against flying enemies. Heck, if you don't have a strong range party you may be one of the few people who can do anything.

6) Lantern Archons: Ignore all DR attacks. Great when the GM throws a DR 15/adamntine creature before the party can really deal with it.

7) Hound Archon: Have a decent aura and decent attacks. Big DR and SR, he should survive a while and do some damage.

8) Aurochs: If you have superior summoning and can roll 2 on the d3 their trample ability gets pretty good.

And summoning only gets better as you level. One of my favorite is the Lilend Azata at summon monster 6. The turn she comes into play she can bard song as a move action, cast one of her awesome spells as a standard, and you get a full round of actions, to lay down some haste. Remember, the goal of a conjuration wizard usually shouldn't be to do damage, its to control the battlefield.

Maybe check out Treantmonks guide. I think its a core only, so you have a little more versatility then whats in there, but not much.

The other thing Zen Archer would bring to the table is flurry of bows, which means you don't need many shot and rapid shot, freeing up two feats. Even a single level gets you flurry (eliminating two feats from the build), gets you another needed bonus feat, and gives bonuses on all three saves. You do technically loose a BAB, but only for qualifying for feats (which does suck) or when making a single shot.

After playing a zen archer with several fighter/ranger archery builds in PFS, I believe the rapid shot/many shot bonus is slightly superior to flurry though. Still, only slightly.

Ya, that was my thinking on a potential witch build. Mix with sluggish jinx and knock some -5 on saves, and -3 on attacks. Its a pretty steep feat investment, but it would be cool. Just want to know how it works. I assume you'd need to take all three saving throw boosts.

Another bump for thoughts.

Pretty good. Read through all the core races and the PFS legal alternate races.

I only have 2 notes and their both under tiefling.

1) Their paladin favored class ability is probably one of the best. Its twice as good as the halfling/gnome ability for the purpose of healing themselves. Add on greater mercy and fey foundling and your healing ridiculous HP's/lay on hands, when used on you only, which should be most of them.

2) You missed Improved Fiendish Sorcery as a feat. This ability probably makes Variant Tieflings the scariest sorcerer in the entire game. If he is a Rakshasa variant tiefling that takes crossblooded abyssal/infernal with Shadow/Rakshasa and picks up improved fiendish sorcery he can effectively be rocking a 24 Cha at level 1 for the purpose of everything having to do with being a sorcerer! Sure, your limited on bloodlines, but none of those bloodlines are too bad and some even have some synergies together. While probably not as broken as say the scarred witchdoctor, its still pretty broken. DC 18 level 1 spells before spell focus, plus all the other goodies of high Cha for sorcerer abilities.

Sandals Of Quick Reaction: When the wearer acts during a surprise round, he can take a standard and a move action during the surprise round. If the wearer already has the ability to take a standard and a move action during the surprise round, he instead gains a +10 circumstance bonus to speed when acting during a surprise round.

Works great with my diviner/arcane trickster. Nothing like blasting a foe for 150 damage and getting to sneak away. They hate that.

Also, a single level dip in Sohei(which you can combine with Master of many styles) gives you a whole lot of goodness. I did it with my reach rogue so he could also attack adjacent(hes a cleaving rogue, skulking slayer) and I get great mileage out of it. All the +'s to saves and dragon style to charge on difficult terrain. Monks are super front loaded.

I think "not" splitting the party is over rated, as long as the right characters are splitting. My Arcane Trickster Split from the party all the time, and he never actually got into trouble while split from the party, only when he was with the party. Worse case situation, he has a +35 escape artist and dimension door. Oh, and a +54 stealth.

I played a ninja before that who always went off on his own. Pretty sure most the reason that guy did is because I stole extra treasure while on scouting missions anyway. I truly believe the rogue class is all about beating the wealth of the rest of the party (to stay competitive) and scouting is a great way to do that.

I think it depends on if your winning the defense game right now or not, or if you will be in the future. How many enemies need to roll nat 20's to hit you? My Crane Style Zen Archer monk at level 11 is generally running between 35 AC and 43 AC, depending on the buffing I have up. At 35, a fair number of opponents can actually hit me, but at 43, even most BBEG's need to crit to hit. I did fight one the other day with a +27 on his main attack, but all the rest were +22. Considering I can block one melee attack a round (plus I have snatch arrows) it would be foolish for me to get hit more. I haven't even been hit (with a weapon) since I took crane wing. Only getting hit on crits, and blocking that crit is epic. Plus I have Jingasa, in case I happen to get crit twice in a round, I can block one and reduce the other.

Now if my AC was 31, I'd be getting hit a lot more, and then I would consider taking it. Basically, if you are winning AC, keep the AC bonus and save a feat. If you are loosing the AC battle, and enemies are hitting you on 10's, then its worth considering.

That is my interpretation as well. I saw people arguing against that on the site, which is why I ask. Its the difference in a worthless class ability and a decent class ability. Having 2 medium earth elemental per day at level 9 is alright. Having one medium earth elemental that ruins your life if he dies is a terrible ability, especially since he will die, hard.

I am considering building a Stone Lord and have questions about the Stone Servant Special Ability.

After scouring the site there seems to be conflicting opinions on this, but I couldn't find anything official, so maybe I can get something here now.

The Ability in question is Stone Servant: At 5th level, a stonelord may call a Small earth elemental to her side, as a paladin calls her mount. This earth elemental is Lawful Good in alignment and possesses the celestial template, and it increases in size as the stonelord gains levels, becoming Medium at 8th level, Large at 11th level, Huge at 14th level, Greater at 17th level, and Elder at 20th level.

This ability replaces divine bond.

Ok, so my interpretation is that the only part of the Paladins Divine Bond that applies to the Stone Servant is the following:

Once per day, as a full-round action, a paladin may magically call her mount to her side. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the paladin's level. The mount immediately appears adjacent to the paladin. A paladin can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every 4 levels thereafter, for a total of four times per day at 17th level.

There for, when it dies it doesn't give you all the terrible minuses, which makes sense as its so weak. What do other people think?

My next question is, if this is the case, if it dies, when do you get a new one? Can you summon one for each use of call you have? Seems very ambiguous.

Thats really it. Really interested in trying this archetype, but it really rests on this ability right now, and I want to find out more, something official would be even better. Thank you.

Alright, shamelessly bumping my own post, game starts this Sunday, hoping to get that final player still.

It depends partly on what Paizo wants PFS to be: Do they want PFS to be a gateway drug to playing home games or do they see PFS as an end in its own? I don't think Paizo intends PFS to be the primary method of consuming Pathfinder for most of their customers, I think they want players to "grow out" of PFS and start playing home games. Restricting content is a good way to...

I think PFS ends up becoming the end all more often than not now. This is based solely on my personal experience, what I've seen at FLGS, and my online group.

A lot of people from both my online group and FLGS started off running/playing campaigns. Lets face it, campaigns fall apart, and based off what I hear from others and personal experience, its more the norm than the exception. In real life people burn out, move, die, get married, get divorced, get new jobs. In game, parties get wiped, betray each other, half the party dies, plot characters die, etc.

When your the GM and a game dies for some reason, its demoralizing and takes a lot out of you. So those people find PFS, a lot of them don't do campaigns anymore. Don't need to worry about those normal gaming things happening and ruining the game.

If the GM burns out I can bring the character to a new table. If Billy and Suzy get married and move to Spain there are other players.

Now, a few people who started with PFS at FLGS and online have started campaigns. But I've only seen two of those go past about level 6-7, out of probably 30. Mostly they all just play PFS now.

Sorry, total derail, not my overall intention.

What about expanding on the core races more? Make them more exciting. Back in 3.5 I know some of the settings had multiple races of Elves, gnomes, etc. It keeps the game more core while opening up new options. I know they did that some with the races guide, but why not give each race its own book that expands on its core options a little? Maybe that will help both sides of the fence, those who want options and those who want less exotic races.

Agreed Tactical Monkey, they should make up their minds on it.

I personally have Tieflings and Aasmir characters, but I think they were poor choices in races to open up. Mechanically they are better than nearly any other race at nearly any job. They have flooded the market sort of speak with the number out there. I would not mind if they were removed in future updates even though I've used them for a lot of builds, a few of which wouldn't have worked without those races.

From a pure numbers standpoint the core races are 8-11 BP's to build, while Tieflings are 13 and Aasmir are 15. They also have some crazy things they can do.

That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing different races potentially introduced, but I think it should be limited to BP 11 races and less, heck, maybe even say 8 or less. Nothing stronger than a half-orc. The power creep with Tiefling and Aasmir was nearly equivalent to what the APG or Ultimate books have done to the game, IMO.

Elemental races are a good choice and seem flavorful in Golarion.

30 years old this month.

Wow, filled up fast - I have one spot open if anyone wants it.

Hello All! So I am planning on running a Pathfinder Society(PFS) game in the style of a campaign. For those that don't know Pathfinder Society is organized play. Basically this means that you make a character, and you can play him anywhere he is of the legal level that there is a PFS game. I would like to get something going with a somewhat regular group of players, the less PFS experience the better, because that means you can play whatever I end up running on any given day.

Day: Bi-Weekly on Sundays.

Time: 2 PM EST

What: Pathfinder Society Games

Ran On: Map Toools .xx(probably .87)

Voice: Dolby Axon - Free

Rules: http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety

Attendance: If you have stuff going on, its fine, we won't need you. If you miss too many games though you may fall too far behind and not be able to carry on with the party.

If this sounds like something you may be interested in let me know. Adios!

Starts in 30, would like to get one more!!

1. Vincent playing Cerise, half-elf witch 6
2. Morten Fighter or Ranger/rogue both 5-6
3 Charlie Gunslinger 7
4
5
6

Short notice, so I don't know if anything will happen but going to try and run this.

Map Tools .87
Google Hangouts for voice

1. Vincent playing Cerise, half-elf witch 6
2. Morten Fighter or Ranger/rogue both 5-6
3
4
5
6

My buddy plays a Shadow Dancer Paladin, shes a great character both power wise and RP wise.

Also, he pointed out while reading the guide Toughness is probably better than its rated, because it also grants hp's to the shadow.

Really, Adept is really good for an NPC class for a party, but if your really set on not doing that...

What DrDeth says. One of the best NPC class you could have really. Helps the team soak damage, keep them alive, have the iconic buffs, and get rid of debilitating status effects. It really allows the rest of the team to shine, with a class that is contributing a lot without seeming like it contributes a lot.

And, I know healing is sub-optimal, I actually say this often in PFS when I hear the whine of "we don't have a healer.", which happens often. Still, a healer isn't completely worthless, and it really really allows the party to shine while contributing almost passively.

I think lose-lose is fine, just as long as they aren't over used. Sometimes in real life all options are lose-lose too unfortunately, its a part of life.

I'm in the minority, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with this scenario...but...

How are your players? Are they OK with moral dilemmas? I have literally seen a long term game fall apart because it had to many moral dilemmas (granted, it was more than 1). While I find its ok, it really needs to be ok with your players. Not just the one put into the situation either. In the campaign that I was in that fell apart someone quit because they didn't like the situation the GM put MY character in, that had basically no affect on them what so ever.

If your players are mature enough and not whiny, then I see no problem with it. But...you are most likely railroading them, which is fine, giving the illusion of options when there are none is the best way to rail run (feels more real than someone forcing you to do everything). If I was playing in that game, I would die(not really I know), its the right(and only) option. Now, that being said, there is a book that has Paladin credos for the different gods. I don't actually own it, but I know reading through it two of the deities would be MORE inclined to let it slide. If I wasn't one of those deities though, there is absolutely no choice, and you ARE railroading. If the player didn't take the hard road and not kill the kid, I'd question his value to my campaign(as a RPer).

If you feel ok with everything, and your players can deal with, it then go ahead. Remember though, it is their story too, and if its gonna make the players hate the game, walk away from the idea.

I ran a game where the cap was 18 and the min was 8, AFTER racial modifiers. You know what, casters are still awesome and out pace other classes at higher levels, but they maintained balance longer, and MAD characters were more doable.

In my main PFS group, we have a 2 level challenge going on. Make a PC that has no more than 2 levels in any class/PRC. Trying to make things that work is actually a lot of fun. Course, PFS pretty much ends at 11, so I haven't built past that point, but we have a lot of cool gish builds coming off that.

If I play in a campaign again I'd like to do a throwing weapons guy. Too hard to do in PFS, since you can't make custom items and there are 2 belts that are almots required for throwing.

Lab_Rat wrote:

1) Mustering: We as players already register our characters on Paizo's website and can locate events near us but I wish it went a step further. I wish that once we found that event we could sign up for it and muster right on Paizo's website instead of having to utilize a third party site.

I'd like to expand on this. Paizo knows who's played what. Groups I deal with have tried various methods of keeping track in order to find available scenarios, but they all require constant maintenance.

If the "who's played what" was opened up, it would greatly improve the mustering process.

+1 this! I have three different spreadsheets I fill out for three different groups, and they aren't even always updated. I know I usually will fillout 1 or 2, but leave the third one blank for months, then go drop a bunch of scenarios on it. If we could have a quick chart of everyone's PFS #, with what they'd ran and played, it would make organizing events much easier.

Don't you get sneak attack if you flank an opponent as a person with sneak attack? Also if this is true then don't you also have the ability to pick deadly range as a ninja trick which extends your sneak attack range by 10 feet each time you pick this so then you could shoot your pistol and keep getting sneak attack at ranged if you keep your opponent flanked or flank not possible with ranged weapons?

You can't flank with ranged weapons. I thought they put out a feat that let you, but I haven't seen it, so I think I must've been mistaken. Even without the trick to extend SA range, you can SA within 30 feet, which is fine for a pistol user.

Hmm, Alternative to fighter could be a level or two dip in monk. Assuming a two level dip you loose 2 hps, and a BAB, but gain 4 SP's (I think you were building for a skill monkey), improved unarmed strike(most the time you can't bring your weapons somewhere a few times in a career, its nice to have then, or for AOO's), and much better saves. Especially the low Will, which will be a problem for you. Not saying its a good idea, but it is an interesting alternative to fighter dip for feats.

You know, a mythic tier additional retirement arc wouldn't be so bad. That may be kind of cool actually.

Awesome, his were the first guide I read after Treantmonks! His posts are extremely well thought out and helpful. I think he'll make a great addition. Congratulations!

I don't think there are any. Being ill suited as a mount gives a -5 to ride checks, that may be a reasonable penalty.

Get a Military Saddle.

How many Bullets would get sneak attack damage ? (I went for the lowest possible outcome, could be much higher damage the other way)

Although I don't know if there's official answer, only the first bullet would get it. I should have clarified on simultaneous attacks on different targets. For instance, my arcane trickster uses fiery shuriken. He pops out of stealth and throws one of each of the fiery shurikens at 5 targets, all get SA damage. When I throw all five at one target, only the first gets SA. Thats the way its ruled at nearly every table, and what makes sense as well. Others may rule differently, but that is most common. I did once have a GM tell me I could SA on all the hits.

Does Rapid shot and double barreled pistol actually allow you to fire 4 Bullets in a turn ? (I guessed yes)

Should be a yes. Reducing reload time to 2 free actions per barrel, unless the GM rules reloading goes up to a Full-round action, but I don't think thats raw.

Does invisibility affect all the attacks you make in the turn you started invisible or just the first attack ? (I assumed all)

Just the first. In general, I try and assume the harshest reading of RAW when partaking in character design. If it ends up being more lenient excellent! If not, you planned for that.

I wish it was a Halfling instead of a human as i think they are cooler, any way to do this with out putting me way behind on feats and damage in early levels ?

Take a 1 or 2 level dip into fighter? It is harsh, but halfling gunslinger would be way cooler and more original.

So, a potential, if crazy way to get a lot of SA that synergizes with your charisma build would be an Oracle of Waves with water sight, and take obscuring mist as one of your spells. Stay in a cloud of smog, people can't see you, lots of SA's! I believe there is also a mask that lets you see through fog, but I don't know how you could reliably get obscuring mist then, UMD maybe. Still, when you get rapid shot and +6 BAB, getting 6 attacks with SA damage may be brutal.

All previous/current editions are really. I still see some 2e games going on online. Someone came to our PFS group for a while from 2e, and dropped after a few levels to go back to 2e.

Generally only the first attack will get sneak attack. If all attacks go out simultaneously and hit multiple targets they all get SA, but bullets don't go out that way - need spells pretty much. Greater Invisibility would give you SA on all hits though.

That is why I proposed amongst an intimate group that agrees ahead of time. I wouldn't want to customize encounters when I go to FLGS, largely because I don't know who will be at my table. We have players there who are stupidly broken, and ones who broke their PC's. Especially without knowing ahead of time who was at my table, but when I do know player X, Y & Z will be there, and they kill BBEG's in the first round 90% of the time, I know I can up the ante.

I don't like to play or run when the players can just stomp the scenario. If your with a group where you know the PC's, and everyone agrees, what harm is there in that? Once again, I know it will never happen, but it would make the game more enjoyable to prep, run and play.

I agree with both of those statements, yet the homebrews I have both ran and played in tend to have much less save or die(or be out for 1d4 minutes or whatever) than PFS. Sure, they may come up occasionally, but not every 2-3 sessions. I've played to a game that went to 17 where the GM didn't use one of those on us, and it was significantly more difficult than PFS overall. The problem is, that situation comes up enough in PFS(in my experience from 5-9 and up once every 2 sessions those get thrown around), if your not ready for it when it does happen, and your the only PC between the BBEG and TPK, its nice to be up for the challenge. And it feels amazing when you solo the CR 11 boss that was gonna TPK the party to boot!

Well, there are over 20 people in my regular group, so thats not really a successful solution. I think allowing some degree of flexibility with a party that you have GM'd for 2 or more times in the past is reasonable, at least if its disclosed to them ahead a time. I know myself and several GM's in our group would like that, and the players would agree too. In particular myself, I'm pretty sure one of my greatest strengths as a GM is encounter design and I'd be up to the task. It'd actually add a great deal of enjoyment to the game for me personally, because thats one of my favorite parts of the game as a whole. I know it won't happen, just saying it'd be cool.

Other people still matter. He's not *that* insanely optimized, though he may be holding back to trick me.

That being said, I'm not 100% sure I agree with the fact you don't need to insanely optimize. At high levels there are a lot of save or effectively be dead for the remainder of this battle effects. My Zen Archer has on three occasions been the only to make a save in one of these situations, and been in at least 2 other situations where only him and one other player were left. 2 of the three my ZA where BBEG's of a scenario.

I've also seen several situation where only 2 characters (often not me) make the necessary save. And you watch and hope that they can win this fight or you know your dead. And you cringe when one of those guys that's still up is known for making poor characters.

Now, I don't think any of my other characters are as optimized as my Zen Archer, and haven't chosen to stay as optimized. Still, I've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary.