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As the tittle says, I am creating a prison, but not regular prison, but prison which would include magic and technology. We are looking at a city, which specialized itself in slave trade, is highly advanced (thassilon advanced) and around small to medium sized settlement.
City was on the dry land, not near the sea, has walls made of stone and fortified by metal to withstand anything and is able to take in at the very least 1000 prisoners/slaves with ease but this isn't that important. What I need are idea's of how to shape the prison, what structure's are needed and what kind of magic would be included, not to protect it, but to keep it running.
If the question isn't clear enough, I will answer any additional questions, but again, I need idea's not about monsters, but how would this city look. I don't need the schematics for entire city, I am only using a small part of it.
Also any links to sites which describe medieval prisons might be good or anything else for that matter.
The main question would be: why are these slaves brought together? There'd be a serious risk of revolts on top of the usual trouble of feeding and sheltering a thousand people, so there had better be a good reason.
Also: medieval prisons worked nothing like modern penal institutions. There was no punishment, prisons served as places where the accused were held until their trial and where interrogations (with or without torture) were performed.
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Well, the city was established on a trade route, slave trade route. The main business of a city was selling slaves abroad. Slaves were exotic goods for them and this city "specialized" in it. I wouldn't say it was only income for the city, but it was it's main one. Every kind of slave could have been bought or sold in it, child, old man, a giant, anything you would desire really.
Constant exchange of people would most likely kill any revolts, that's my guess.
I remember a prison write up from long ago- in an old Dragon mag, I think- where the prison was essentially a huge stone wheel on its side, with each spoke in the wheel being a cell. The prisoners were not sentenced to years, but to revolutions of the wheel. Each prisoner had to push on his cell wall to turn the wheel. Any prisoner could decide not to if they wanted, but by doing so they were in effect adding to their own sentence. It was so long ago that I can't remember much more of the details, but that concept really stuck with me.
Take a look at real life prisons for starters. I'd start with Eastern State Penitentary in Pennsylvania and look at how much of a horror show it was. Since that particular place is closed (except for tours) you should be able to get your hands on actual blueprints or at least detailed maps.
As for creating the city, start with why the prison is there in the first place and work outward. Most likely any city/town houses the families of the warden and security staff, they in turn require certain basics like a market, some manner of transportation hub, etc. How much control does the warden exert over the actaul town and it's politics? Maybe the entire population consists of criminals and only after a set period of incarceration are they allowed into a "town" job. If so, then what means of control are in play to safeguard their behavior?
I have more I could add here but I am curious what everyone else has to say...
Could it be a penal colony? Prisoners are sent there to work mines/whatever and after have their sentence comuted to "Colonist" for a a quota of >insert mine product here<, are still under death sentence if they return to the homeland? "Ice Forged" by Gail Z. Martin has this as the premise of her novel. It was even a high-magic setting..until it stopped. The collapse of magic is what allows the prisoners to escape. Good novel, btw.
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Sounds like you're talking about a slave market / stable/ training facility more than a prison.
Low security hosteling and market area for the broken, then high security holding pens and training/ torture facilities for the newcomers. Low security area would look like any other market, but more manacles and tethering posts.
Magitech permanent dimensional lock on the whole area, lead-lined walls and antimagic fields applied liberally to the secure areas. Taser collars and slave brandings for the stock. Permanently lit and chilled rooms with random ghost sounds to interrupt sleep, magic mouths for repetitive training messages. Probably separate areas for each type of slave and the appropriate breaking and education specialists. More trainers than actual guards; charm magics and mundane tortures mixed for more efficient results.
Growing around the facility would be the unsecured settlement that is created around any profitable business. Undesirable for security, but unavoidable by human nature.
CoV you scare me.
Thats almost TOO detailed.
When I go for advanced magic/technology, I find that my mind always wants to go to constructs. A large, almost invulnerable monolith towering over the prisoners/slaves definitely has a nice psychological effect to go along with any pragmatic uses. The fact that they are immune to mind control, fort saves, and often magic can make for a formidable prison guard depending on the captives. While the average slave tend not to have any magic worth mentioning (although exotic ones might), if you go for more of a prison, then it is almost inevitable you will need countermeasures to magic.
For architecture, long, narrow elevators might be both a nice aesthetic and pragmatic as well. Having the captives deep underground with only one entrance and exit makes a great choke point that is easily defensible and can be cut off to trap the prisoners. Plus, an old, rickety elevator made from crude, rusting parts screams of flavor. A good source of this kind of imagery might be the PS2 game ICO, which had a focus on mixing fantasy aesthetics with dilapidated technologies in crumbling ruins that hinted at grander ages. It is a short game, so it would not be hard to look through gameplay footage online to find nice material.
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I find that it's most fun to try creating a magic prison with affordable limitations.
Is it possible to create a prison that's effectively impossible to break out of? Sure, just make it out of adamantine, staff it with 20th level barbarians and slather it with antimagic zones. Done!
But that's also really, ridiculously expensive. Real-life prisons don't all build themselves like unassailable fortresses with no regard to cost, and there would have to be some very, very real benefits to building a superprison that would cost that much to maintain. Could a prison spend millions of dollars on every single door so they can't be breached? Sure, but they don't. It's a strange idea to take so much money that you could use it to research several mythic magical secrets or go conquer other countries and admit, "I built a prison with my share." Perhaps I could believe it for a sect of people that are keeping a mad god imprisoned -- then it's a proportional benefit -- but not too many others.
But just take the idea, "I want to build a realistic prison capable of retaining mid-level spellcasters, and maybe even some monsters".
I would create it in an out-of-the-way location; I'm thinking on the top of perilous cliffs, surrounded by the ocean, where nobody but prison personnel have any business being around. I'd give some serious thought on how to trap the cliffs beneath the water to prevent an underwater approach -- few thoughts on it yet. It would probably be prudent to sculpt 'safe paths' into the cliff walls to funnel would-be intruders into specific areas, and layer those paths with traps -- probably alarm traps protected with lead and really high Perception DCs.
The prison itself would be made of manufactured stone reinforced with iron bars and embedded lead plates. It may not be scry-proof, but we're going for scry-resistant. The manufactured stone would include the foundation of the prison, which would be very thick. The primary method of travel would be by trained winged mounts (I could see this being a Korvosan prison, actually), which also patrol the skies, look out for ships, and keep an eye on the cliff walls. The prison halls may be interspersed with magical traps as well, obscured by disguised lead plates to protect against discovery by stray prisoners that manage to cast a detect magic.
The prison would be as self-sufficient as possible, creating its own food and water so it doesn't need as many shipments. This way, shipments are infrequent and treated with maximum suspicion.
All prison guards are carefully selected and trained. Candidates would be screened for having a Lawful alignment, and questioned; they would be made to swear an oath of loyalty and secrecy, which would be renewed at least twice a year (we'd like to do it more often, but those human resources costs add up). Ironically, the secrecy of the escort guards may be more difficult to maintain -- they must remain masked during the course of most of their duties, and may not reveal that they work for the prison to outsiders. It's too much of a security risk for the escort guards' identities to be public knowledge. Pamphlets with the tagline "No, that sound probably wasn't 'just a rat'" are frequently distributed warning against potential ploys of infiltrators and encouraging diligence.
The majority of the prisons' personnel are fairly low-level, but several higher-level characters are also necessary -- to serve on the riot teams, or to work on engineering teams repairing damage and constructing specialized rooms for new arrivals with specific holding requirements. Guard candidates with certain unique features may be sought out to work on different details or even to serve with specific creatures -- for example, half-orcs and dwarves may be prized on lower dungeon levels where a lightless environment is used, while blind or deaf guards may be particularly useful controlling prisoners notorious for using a commanding voice or gaze attacks.
There would be a single landing zone for new arrivals, which are brought into processing. As the primary entrance into the prison, processing is well-guarded and is the focus of a lot of the prison's defensive measures and enchantments. Each prisoner is brought to the prison blindfolded and wearing 'iron mittens', an object that blends manacles worn behind the back with gauntlets that do not allow finger movement. I'm thinking a lot of prisoners would wear iron mittens even inside the facility, but unsure -- they would be crude weapons, after all.
New arrival parties are considered hostile until proven otherwise -- even the accompanying guard and his mount are expected to follow a very rigid routine until processing is complete, with the assumption that they could be disguised infiltrators. Armed guards look on as the escort displays a signet ring, is successfully detected for Lawful alignment, briefly reveals his face to a questioner and has a brief discussion (for as much purpose as granting the questioner an opportunity to scrutinize the escort guard and determine that he's not under magical influence). Creatures that are caught with variant arcane magical writings hidden on their person will have them noted and removed -- less of a problem for the rare spellcasters that record spells with knotted cords, but a much bigger problem for spellcasters that tattoo their skin.
New arrivals are disrobed and their possessions are scrutinized for additional insight to the new arrival's intentions or abilities. Chiefly, the possessions are searched for arcane magical writings, spell components, magic items, weapons and holy symbols. New arrivals are also scanned for active magical auras (which are dispelled when possible, and identified when not), and finally, brought into the reaving room.
The reaving room could take several different forms. If you're a fan of 3.5 materials, the reaving room could contain an Arcane Ooze, which strips spellcasters of their spells known / spell slots one by one until they are empty. Or it could be a room with a Spellknife, which -- well, does the same thing but with apologetic beatings. No matter how it's performed, the point of this room is that spellcasters ideally leave spell-less.
After the reaving, new arrivals are interviewed by a questioner -- a character with lots of Sense Motive (possibly aided by detect lies or Zone of Truth, or that nifty new Compel Truth whatchamacallit spell), who runs down a laundry list of questions regarding whether the arrival has access to magical abilities; whether any magical abilities are remaining; if they have a deity; if they have any hidden paraphernalia still accessible; if they were imprisoned as part of a ploy; and so on.
After that, a shower and quarantine for 24 hours.
Whew! I've hardly gotten to the day-by-day life! And I'm out of time. Maybe more later?
Really gotta figure out something to counter those 1st level spell-like abilities though. Fire Bolt, Shift or Dimensional Steps could still cause serious problems for that prison.
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Well, creatures / people who can cause serious trouble for the prison would probably cause even more trouble for the future slave owner and thus woudn't be a top-seller anyway. Those who are known to have those powers might be locked away in deep, small chambers or even put into stasis for the rare customer who asks for such a dangerous good - those who display those powers 'unplanned' would probably be killed, after all their value diminishes with the display of dangerous powers.
I remember a prison write up from long ago- in an old Dragon mag, I think- where the prison was essentially a huge stone wheel on its side, with each spoke in the wheel being a cell. The prisoners were not sentenced to years, but to revolutions of the wheel. Each prisoner had to push on his cell wall to turn the wheel. Any prisoner could decide not to if they wanted, but by doing so they were in effect adding to their own sentence. It was so long ago that I can't remember much more of the details, but that concept really stuck with me.
Do you happen to know which issue? Or the title or author of this prison? Seems very interesting and would like to find out more. Thanks.
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Thanks everyone, it's what I am looking for, prison idea's, security idea's and similar. This prison/city was also a place for customer's to buy their slaves so it would contain sort of auction house also and even temporary guest rooms and such for them.
Just additional clarification on this city/prison; I based it around old Eurythnia, one of seven old Thassilonian empires. It's mentioned in their history that they were interested in exotic goods and slaves, so I combined both in this single city. The city was short lived tho, maybe 50 - 60 years before the fall of Thassilon and earthquake leveled it down underground, destroying big part of the city, but most remains intact due to it's solid structure.
Look at any current Government School. Some of them already have bars on the windows.
This may be unrealistic but, I would use liberal application of create greater demiplane and permanency to create the actual area. Of course with only one specific gate location that leads to this large plane. You can shape and mold the plane at the time of creation to fit your needs. Personally, I would choose it to be a dead magic zone with one permanent portal to the plane that would then be well protected with an adamantine box and door built around the portal (on the demiplane), maybe even to the extent of a whole building to house and protect the jailers from the rest of the dreck on the plane. Lots of barbarians and fighters on a non-magical plane can probably handle anybody coming in.
Not so much for slaves, but for prisoners I truly envision something like the "prison" at the end of Jet Li's movie The One. It's basically a whole planet full of criminals and only criminals from the greater multiverse. In the multiverse there are machines that can teleport you between universes, but on this prison planet there isn't one, so there is no way out. There are no guards, nothing to protect. Only criminals fighting and killing one another with nothing else to do and no where to go.
I remember a prison write up from long ago- in an old Dragon mag, I think- where the prison was essentially a huge stone wheel on its side, with each spoke in the wheel being a cell. The prisoners were not sentenced to years, but to revolutions of the wheel. Each prisoner had to push on his cell wall to turn the wheel. Any prisoner could decide not to if they wanted, but by doing so they were in effect adding to their own sentence. It was so long ago that I can't remember much more of the details, but that concept really stuck with me.Do you happen to know which issue? Or the title or author of this prison? Seems very interesting and would like to find out more. Thanks.
I'm sorry,I don't. This would've been from an issue back in the mid- to -late 80's. I left playing D&D for another game soon after that.
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Maybe not a demiplane, but the teleportation to the deep underground prison might awesome idea. It's isolated and underground. That might also stop any teleportation and invasion/escape attempts since you can't teleport to a location which you dont see, at least not with lower level spells. A simple magically hardened earth could protect it from any escapes via burrow or similar magic.
I'm sorry,I don't. This would've been from an issue back in the mid- to -late 80's. I left playing D&D for another game soon after that.I remember a prison write up from long ago- in an old Dragon mag, I think- where the prison was essentially a huge stone wheel on its side, with each spoke in the wheel being a cell. The prisoners were not sentenced to years, but to revolutions of the wheel. Each prisoner had to push on his cell wall to turn the wheel. Any prisoner could decide not to if they wanted, but by doing so they were in effect adding to their own sentence. It was so long ago that I can't remember much more of the details, but that concept really stuck with me.Do you happen to know which issue? Or the title or author of this prison? Seems very interesting and would like to find out more. Thanks.
Ok that at least gives me something to work with in trying to find the specific magazine. Do you recall if it was an actual article, or excerpt, or blurb? If it was an article I. Can quickly go through the article titles and narrow it down further. Currently, going through '83-'89 magazine articles will take some time. Any sliver of extra information will greatly help.
Ok that at least gives me something to work with in trying to find the specific magazine. Do you recall if it was an actual article, or excerpt, or blurb? If it was an article I. Can quickly go through the article titles and narrow it down further. Currently, going through '83-'89 magazine articles will take some time. Any sliver of extra information will greatly help.I'm sorry,I don't. This would've been from an issue back in the mid- to -late 80's. I left playing D&D for another game soon after that.I remember a prison write up from long ago- in an old Dragon mag, I think- where the prison was essentially a huge stone wheel on its side, with each spoke in the wheel being a cell. The prisoners were not sentenced to years, but to revolutions of the wheel. Each prisoner had to push on his cell wall to turn the wheel. Any prisoner could decide not to if they wanted, but by doing so they were in effect adding to their own sentence. It was so long ago that I can't remember much more of the details, but that concept really stuck with me.Do you happen to know which issue? Or the title or author of this prison? Seems very interesting and would like to find out more. Thanks.
Definitely an article. I remember it had a full write up on it, even a map/diagram on how it worked.
Well, creatures / people who can cause serious trouble for the prison would probably cause even more trouble for the future slave owner and thus woudn't be a top-seller anyway. Those who are known to have those powers might be locked away in deep, small chambers or even put into stasis for the rare customer who asks for such a dangerous good - those who display those powers 'unplanned' would probably be killed, after all their value diminishes with the display of dangerous powers.
Well, prize fighting and various blood sports often turn to slaves as their main source of recruitment. A sorcerer blasting spells around might end up being a popular gladiator with the crowds, and thus valuable. Plus, with sufficient control methods, some would enjoy powerful bodyguards or guardians for their homes/business/evil secret hideout.
The problem thus comes down to the ability to control the target with magic. A long lasting mind control effect would be most favorable, but a disabling effect done at will, maybe activated by a magical devise, could suffice. Still, it would be a relatively rare item that is only meant for the most valuable of slaves. Anyway I look at it, with all the previous control suggestions and these new ones, you will need a wizard on call manufacturing magical items fairly often. Even without complicated magical items, you might find it worthwhile to give the guards scrolls and wands of appropriate spells to help quell the slaves.
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Have the "prison" run by a handful of spellcasters with flesh to stone. The "slaves" are all petrified victims who are shown off to potential buyers (since as statues they can still look strong or fit or attractive) and unpetrified after a sale is made. It has ZERO upkeep (all you need is storage space, a spellcaster or two, and good record keeping skills), ZERO chance of break outs or riots, and if someone comes to free the slaves they will either have to drag out heavy statues, have expensive magical cures, or be faster than a slaver with a good mace and strong swinging arm.
The prison's overseers can even use stone shape on the slaves to mark their property, or worse, to punish them.
A statue must really misbehave to deserve punishment : )
Anti magic demiplane with a horizontal portal far above the interior ground. Put a wench outside to lift prisoners in/out. Throw in some golem guards and you're good to go.
Anti magic demiplane with a horizontal portal far above the interior ground. Put a wench outside to lift prisoners in/out. Throw in some golem guards and you're good to go.
I am pretty sure you mean a "WINCH" to lift prisoners in/out. However, I like the flavor of having a buxom wench do it.
Anti magic demiplane with a horizontal portal far above the interior ground. Put a wench outside to lift prisoners in/out. Throw in some golem guards and you're good to go.I am pretty sure you mean a "WINCH" to lift prisoners in/out. However, I like the flavor of having a buxom wench do it.
Depends on how burly she is.
Yes though. Initially I meant winch.
Anti magic demiplane with a horizontal portal far above the interior ground. Put a wench outside to lift prisoners in/out. Throw in some golem guards and you're good to go.
I like your style, we have very similar designs.
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There is a 3.5 book that would help you its called Stronghold Builders guide, it will need to be converted to PF but It will give you a base line on how to build a large stronghold what needed to do so, what up keep is needed and cost.I would advise the same. This guide is an excellent resource for such constructions.
I forget the name but back in the 20s there was a (played out?) salt mine used as a prison, every day guards would come in, throw (not enough) food on the floor and check for signs of people trying to dig escape. If signs were found all within the gallery were killed. Each day, three people were brought up to work the bellows to keep everyone from dying. If you were there and suposed to be let out, the guards would call your name three times over three days and if you didn't answer they assumed you dead.
But, with a bit of Ston Shape and a Teleport Circle and a Bottle of Air, you can build your place a mile or so down with earth blocking all access. You can use a Decanter of Endless Water to keep them hydrated and as a quick kill-em-all if they get out of hand.
If you want to go crazy, using Immobile Rods to anchor walls of force with another Bottle of Air in geosynchronous orbit with a Teleport Circle again.
Or just find some monster with an at will use of some kind of control power and hire one?
Definitely an article. I remember it had a full write up on it, even a map/diagram on how it worked.Ok that at least gives me something to work with in trying to find the specific magazine. Do you recall if it was an actual article, or excerpt, or blurb? If it was an article I. Can quickly go through the article titles and narrow it down further. Currently, going through '83-'89 magazine articles will take some time. Any sliver of extra information will greatly help.I'm sorry,I don't. This would've been from an issue back in the mid- to -late 80's. I left playing D&D for another game soon after that.I remember a prison write up from long ago- in an old Dragon mag, I think- where the prison was essentially a huge stone wheel on its side, with each spoke in the wheel being a cell. The prisoners were not sentenced to years, but to revolutions of the wheel. Each prisoner had to push on his cell wall to turn the wheel. Any prisoner could decide not to if they wanted, but by doing so they were in effect adding to their own sentence. It was so long ago that I can't remember much more of the details, but that concept really stuck with me.Do you happen to know which issue? Or the title or author of this prison? Seems very interesting and would like to find out more. Thanks.
Old news i guess- but i did find the prison again- its from Dungeon magazine #36, called "The Granite Mountain Prison".
Lead lined walls are definitely a must for any high security prison residing on the good ol' Prime Material. If someone can just poof in, grab a prisoner, and poof out, it's not very secure.
If you want tech and science to mix, perhaps have the prison be off planet? On the moon, or even another planet in the solar system. Interplanetary Teleport gets them there lickety split and then they're pretty much stuck unless they're a 17th level caster (which, let's face it, no prison is ever going to hold unless you silence them somehow, prevent them from using their hands, and pray they don't have Silent/Still Spell. On the plus side, they can't use those on Interplanetary Teleport anyway, so deprive them of at least ONE of those components, probably the tongue, and you're good unless they can Regenerate).
Your call whether it's "Space Australia" or there's actually a prison there. Could make for a neat twist if the prisoners never know they're not on Golarion any more (underground prison, only accessible by Teleportation, perhaps a tech-assisted Gate of some kind?). Some inhospitable world that requires your powerful magics and science to make the prison livable.
They escape, they have to get past multiple hurdles. Escape the prison itself, know they're on a planet that will kill them, find a way to overcome that, and THEN find a way off the planet.
Probably even better than a Demiplane, since a simple Plane Shift can get you outta that one.
Bonus points if it's a planet rich in some valuable material (some kind of Raritanium something or other), so you can put 'em to work.
Troubleshooter makes some very good points about building an affordable prison, but if you want to go in a more fantastical, "money is no object" route, consider making the entire prison a massive, intelligent construct. For further pain and automation, it can be "staffed" by non-intelligent constructs (as described by lemeres) under the prison's command. The prison has no actual doors, but merely slides around walls to create rooms, openings, and pathways. Being a construct, it can move these walls, as well as various traps, and even shackles attached to the walls/ceiling/floor as easily as other entities can move a limb.
Any situations that can't be handled with reconfiguring walls, traps, shackles, and golem-jailers are dealt with using an array of spells. That tricky rogue's escape becomes much more difficult when targeted by a Hold Person spell timed when he's trying to evade one of the traps placed in his way. Other threats can be neutralized by boxing them in with walls, and dropping a Wall of Fire or Cloudkill spell in with them. Anyone who actually manages to breach the outer wall and make a run for it is immediately targeted by Ice Crystal Teleport to return the target to a maximum-security cell. Likewise, you don't need to block people from teleporting in or out, but merely establish a permanent Teleport Trap spell that once again sends the victims to a maximum-security cell.
Of course, all of the above (minus permanent effects like the Teleport Trap) are only employed when there is already a problem. During normal operation, the prison tends to encourage prisoners to be cooperative. Prisoners with a track record of good behavior tend to be rewarded with perks like a better quality of food, or a cell with a Wall of Force window. The prison may even occasionally, but carefully, use a system of corridors between moved walls to allow such prisoners a bit of a fresh breeze. It also seeks to minimize problems through how it divides its prisoners. People who get along well may be put together, while those who tend to get in fights with each other are always kept separated. Likewise, potentially "dangerous" or otherwise potentially troublesome prisoners (such as spellcasters, and adventurers in general) are kept separate from each other, to prevent them from combining their skills towards a breakout attempt.
Old news i guess- but i did find the prison again- its from Dungeon magazine #36, called "The Granite Mountain Prison".Definitely an article. I remember it had a full write up on it, even a map/diagram on how it worked.Ok that at least gives me something to work with in trying to find the specific magazine. Do you recall if it was an actual article, or excerpt, or blurb? If it was an article I. Can quickly go through the article titles and narrow it down further. Currently, going through '83-'89 magazine articles will take some time. Any sliver of extra information will greatly help.I'm sorry,I don't. This would've been from an issue back in the mid- to -late 80's. I left playing D&D for another game soon after that.I remember a prison write up from long ago- in an old Dragon mag, I think- where the prison was essentially a huge stone wheel on its side, with each spoke in the wheel being a cell. The prisoners were not sentenced to years, but to revolutions of the wheel. Each prisoner had to push on his cell wall to turn the wheel. Any prisoner could decide not to if they wanted, but by doing so they were in effect adding to their own sentence. It was so long ago that I can't remember much more of the details, but that concept really stuck with me.Do you happen to know which issue? Or the title or author of this prison? Seems very interesting and would like to find out more. Thanks.
Just found it the other day after asking someone for help. Thanks for all the info on it. Going to modify it for a future campaign. Thanks again.