You can if you're Martial Artist to avoid alignment conflicts. And really, there's nothing wow about it at all.
You can if you're Martial Artist to avoid alignment conflicts. And really, there's nothing wow about it at all.
It's the rage-cycling that is wow.
Soundstriker10/Vivisectionist10 and Pala20. Go and rape any evil creature you wish in like one round while being tough as hell. Just have to win ini to deal 0.95*(20+4,5+5+17.5)*1.1 = 49 DPR per attack. So we're facing a DPR of about 500 against evil flatfooted foes (and 308 if not flatfooted)
Martial Artist gives Rage Cycling, the ability to ignore DR for one round with a swift, and great saves; Barbarian gives pounce, rage, and other awesome rage powers. I think its a decent combo.
I was thinking about a character like this just for a multiclass, except I was going to be mostly Dex and Wis based (hopefully with an Agile AoMF); was going to be Martial Artist/Master of Many Styles 5 with Dragon and Crane Styles and then go into Serene Barbarian. A gestalt would of course make it about a million times better than a multiclass.
The way the "Class" Method works out results in the numbers coinciding to where you are a Druid with your first level B.A.B. being a +1 instead of a +0.
Same with the Fighter1/Wizard19:Sorcerer20. You are a Sorcerer with a Boost at Level 1.
If you do the running total you end up with 15(10 for the Ftr/Wiz:Sor) but start off with a +1 instead of a +0.
If you use the Increase Method you would get a +20 using either route.
As I tried saying the Tally works best. But it was stated by some of the Systems Devs that you go level by level not a Running total. I will try to dig up the Post for it.
Basically your B.A.B. is as if you took 20 Levels of a 3/4 (or 1/2) B.A.B. Class and 1 level of a Full B.A.B. Class.
As I have said it is odd. It is one of those weird interactions just like how in the Fractional B.A.B. System you can get a 16 B.A.B. on a Rogue with a single dip. As I have said the Tally is the better way. But R.A.W. for the system it is Level By Level.
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Scout/invulnerable rager
Better hope you're immune to sneak damage bad guy.
Because at level 10 I'm rage pouncing with 5d6 of sneak damage, and if feel like being a cheesehead I doubled my rogue archetype with knife master and am using a pair of kuhkris with keen and double slice and well crap, now I'm going to go fighter the rest of the way weapon focus on my knives and weapon spec and weapon training
Magus// Rogue seems like a fun one. Specifically, Myrmidarch Magus 20// Fighter 9/ Rogue 9/ Arcane Archer 2! If you can apply 3.5's ACF to PF classes, then a Myrmidarch Magus 20// Sneak Attack Fighter 17/ Arcane Archer 3 can work!
Fractional B.A.B. means that the 1 Level Dip in the right class at the right level can give them the +16 at level 20.
A Magus1/Rogue1 would only have a +0 B.A.B. R.A.W. using Fractional B.A.B. the same character has a +1.
By taking a 1 Level Dip you can get a +16. I am trying to figure out what Level it is.
BTW: I don't think I ever said it was a Fighter dip, did I?
What's Fractional B.A.B?
That is, I understand the concept of a base attack bonus that gets increased by fractions, but is this a Pathfinder concept? I've never come across any rules for this.
It is from 3.5's Unearthed Arcana. Just as the Gestalt System is.
Ah. Thanks!
As a fighter/wizard you can focus on ranged/melee touch attack spells. with the full BAB you should hit almost always.
And you can take feats like weapon specialization, improved critical and such all focused on your rays or melee spells.
Also it is very easy to later go Eldritch Knight and after the first level, you can switch out the caster for a different class.
Also Arcane Archer and Mystic Theurge would be very interesting options.
One thing I that could be pulled off in gestalt is a tripple caster. Meaning arcane, divine and psionic abilities all in one character. Just think of all the buffing you could do ^^
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One thing I that could be pulled off in gestalt is a tripple caster. Meaning arcane, divine and psionic abilities all in one character. Just think of all the buffing you could do ^^
Yeah. Someone suggested this and I really liked the idea.
If you're allowed to take PrCs that mix two classe like Mystic Theurge or Eldritch Knight, you can go full cheese. Start with wizard 3 in one side and Psion 3 on the other then 10 levels of cerebremancer and cleric, top it off with 7 levels of psion and mystic theurge. Full Arcane casting, full manifesting, divine casting at level -3. All of the spells? All of the spells. You can also shift the formula to get full divine and psionics - 3, but I like he first version better, since clerics get all their spells known at once at 17th level but the psion would only get 1 power known.
You'd basically want high Int and Wis, with Con secondary and anything else in Dex. You'd be the ultimate caster.
As I have said the Tally is the better way. But R.A.W. for the system it is Level By Level.
I disagree. RAW is unclear and could go either way. Please quote what in the gestalt rules leads you to think this is the "RAW" with certainty.
RAI is fortunately pretty clear.
We both agree that tallying is better. But I really dislike when people assert really bad rules as being "RAW," unless it's undeniably so. Because some people insist on playing "strict RAW" or have an aversion for too many "houserules" and thus the distinction of RAW or not matters, even if neither of *us* would ever play it that way.
In Unearthed Arcana it states that you go by each Level. This was left out of the d20srd and some of the later printings so they had more room.
@soupturtle: It is weird how it works out and it is only a certain level that it works that way... Though it is easier to work out with a 2 Level dip in 2 other classes.
@ Azaelas Fayth & soupturtle: soupturtle is right here. Even using fractional BAB, you'd still need 4 levels in a Full BAB class to reach +16 BAB with a 3/4 BAB class. Actually, fractional BAB is irrelevant in this case, as you'll see below.
See, under fractional BAB, a Rogue 10/ Cleric 10 would have +15 BAB under the fractional BAB rules, whereas under the regular rules, it would have +14 BAB. This is because both Rogue and Cleric are "3/4 BAB" classes, that is, they add 3/4 their level to BAB. Hence, (10x3/4)+(10x3/4) = 7,5+7,5 = 15.
It's also important to note that, in case you have a fractional BAB score (9,5 for Wizard 19, for example), you keep it fractional. You only round it down, as normal, when you're adding up the BAB to an attack roll, since a fractional roll would make no sense.
It gets more complex when you have classes with different progressions in the same build. Just group the classes in "Poor", "Medium" and "Good" groups when adding things up.
"Poor" classes advance BAB by 1/2 per level; "Medium", by 3/4; "Good", by 1.
A Fighter 6/ Cleric 5/Wizard 4/ Rogue 3/ Sorcerer 2 would be Good 6/ Medium 8/ Poor 6: (6x1)+(8x3/4)+(6x1/2) = 6+6+3 = 15 BAB vs. 14 BAB under regular rules.
Now, lets see your Rogue 19/ Fighter 1:
(19x3/4)+(1x1) = 14,25+1 = 15,25
As I said before, you round it down, hence BAB 15, sames as with Rogue 20. This is the same for R 18/F 2 and R 17/ F 3:
(18x3/4)+(2x1) = 13,5+2 = 15,5
(17x3/4)+(3x1) = 12,75+3 = 15,75
The breaking point is at Rogue 16/ Fighter 4:
(16x3/4)+(4x1) = 12+4 = 16
That is, the same as if you hadn't been using fractional BAB at all. This variant rule is interesting because it makes multiclassing hurt your BAB sensibly less, but is only really relevant if you intend to take several 3/4 or 1/2 classes!
In case you're interested in the rationale behind this, you can find it in the sidebar on Unearthed Arcana's page 73.
EDIT: To make clear as to why this alternative rule is so great for multiclassing: instead of a Rogue 16/ Fighter 4 build, consider a Rogue 1/ Monk 15/ Fighter 4 build. Now, Monk and Rogue are both "3/4 BAB" classes. Like the above build, they take 16 levels in the build. However, unlike the aforementioned build (and a Monk 16/ Fighter 4 build, for example, not to mention a Rogue 4/ Monk 12/ Fighter 4!), this one gets to level 20 with just 15 BAB under regular rules, and as such, with one attack less than the other builds. Why is that? Because you're rounding down the classes BAB before adding them up. Fractional BAB fixes that, bringing it up to par to its sister builds. It is quite a benign little rule change, to the point of being almost a given at any 3.5 table, and any PF table I DM.
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Ninja Druid. "I just saw a squirrel punch frank in the kidney and he died."
A lot of the posters have already hit the highlights! I especially like the wizard | alchemist (mindchemist) build, that's pretty swanky.
A bard (animal speaker) | ranger with a dire rat animal companion seems fun! Rock some sweet archery, summon rat swarms :P
Ranger | Fighter switch hitter build using the ranger sword and board combat style for early Shield Mastery, regular feats shore up will save, and fighter feats for achery/combat maneuvers/whatever.
And, I know arguments have been made re: bab and saves, but ...
what if you go fighter 1/rogue 19 | alchemist (vivsectionist) 20? I think (in theory) this nets you sneak at every level.
what if you go fighter 1/rogue 19 | alchemist (vivsectionist) 20? I think (in theory) this nets you sneak at every level.
See, this is why when I run gestalt, I restrict each player to take a two classes and level them to 20. No prestiging or multi-classing. Makes things slightly less cheesy.
"•Class features that two classes share (such as uncanny dodge) accrue at the rate of the faster class."
Combining two sneak attacking classes would just be a waste. I believe an argument was made for the 3E Ninja combined w/ Rogue, because the 3E Ninja had "Sudden Strike" which was basically "sneak attack, except flanking doesn't grant it." Same progression and everything. Since they're technically not the same class feature and have different names, they would have arguably stacked.
Even then, you have a horribly limited one trick pony of a build and will almost certainly pay for it.
A rogue/ alchemist wouldn't suck.
A rogue/ alchemist wouldn't suck.
No. A rogue/fighter or a rogue/wizard would stomp him pretty good, though.
A rogue/ninja is too specialized and vulnerable, assuming it were allowed. Either get BAB, 2 good saves and feats, or get godlike powers and beaucoup skills.
@StreamOfTheSky: 3.5 Ninja/Rogue or Scout/Rogue were popular.
A Rogue/Alchemist or Ninja/Alchemist is better for Action Economy. A Rogue/Fighter would be good if you took a good archetype for the Fighter.
Either Magus, Druid, or Sylvan Sorcerer combined with Master Summoner depending on whether you'd rather Spellcombat/spellstrike or a full powered animal companion plus full spellcasting on top of your mini-eidolon and standard action minute/level summon monster SLAs, and depending on how MAD you're willing to be (but if we're assuming ideal ability scores...)
Add Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) for a wand wielding familiar...perhaps also improved familiar.
Proceed to make action economy your B!+*#.
A rogue/ alchemist wouldn't suck.No. A rogue/fighter or a rogue/wizard would stomp him pretty good, though.
This is true...
I am still sold on the paladin of vengeance/ ninja (oni hunter). All the tricks of the rogue, all the tanking of the paladin, with the dpr of both. All good saves, great skills, great proficiencies, great ability synergy. This is definitely a top tier gestalt.
Vanish + smiting sneak attack is a game ender. One of the ancillary draws is the extra feats you can pick up as ninja/ rogue talents. Lack of feats is one of the main weaknesses for paladin, while something worth spending them on is the ninjas. Any one of the paladin builds can be maximized and made more appealing with the ninja backing.
In Unearthed Arcana it states that you go by each Level. This was left out of the d20srd and some of the later printings so they had more room.
@soupturtle: It is weird how it works out and it is only a certain level that it works that way... Though it is easier to work out with a 2 Level dip in 2 other classes.
So, it was in the first print, but it was left out of the later prints? You mean it was ERRATAED OUT?
You're arguing for a RAW that has been errataed out? What is this I don't even
Druid/ rogue is another top shelf combo that I don't think anyone picked up on. As is bard/fighter, bard/ paladin, bard/ barbarian, and bard/ gunslinger. Monk/ empyreal sorcerer is a good one, so was the old Carmindine monk/ wizard in 3.5. Cleric/ ranger made a beastly combo for a combat caster, just like ranger/ Druid but with slightly less synergy.
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Dervish of dawn bard/ paladin of Saranrae
full bab+ double inspire courage+smite+consolidated dex goodies(check)
d10 HD+ lay on hands shenanigans (check)
6+int skills+versatile performance(check)
all good saves+huge buffs from battle dance+ charisma to saves(...check)
Two partial spell lists with all kinds of good buffs (check)
Fluffy and crunchy gasmic? (check)
This guy/girl has everything short of full casting and does it with perfect ability score synergy (in fact, it consolidates stats down further). Versatile performance gives you more skill points than a rogue... I get giddy just thinking about all that awesome.
I feel like you would have to be an Aasimar or half celestial or something just to explain all the kick ass.
Alchemist/ Witch... I shudder to think...
rogue/mage of the viel for 3 lvls
arcane trickster/ fighter for 3 lvls
arcane trickster/arcame archer for 7 lvls
mage of the viel/arcane archer for 3 lvls
mage of the viel/rogue for 4 lvlstoo lazy to see if it works atm
Hybrid prestige classes are not allowed under the usual gestalt rules.
So, it was in the first print, but it was left out of the later prints? You mean it was ERRATAED OUT?
You're arguing for a RAW that has been errataed out? What is this I don't even
It wasn't. He probably simply couldn't find it in d20srd.org, and didn't know where to find it in Unearthed Arcana proper. I'm guessing the sidebar he's looking for simply isn't OGL. FWIW, I already pointed out where it can be found in my previous post.
Besides, as far as I know (and I may very well be wrong here), WotC never embedded errata in their book's later printings, short of these "Premium Reprints" being released only just now. At most, he got some localized version of the book (I've seen a few books in Portuguese missing pieces, sometime entire pages, of content that could be found in the original, English version).
Furthermore, Unearthed Arcana is a book of house rules. Gestalting is a house rule found there, as is fractional BAB. As a house rule, you may choose to adopt it or not. RAW has no bearing on the subject. If you decided to adopt a house rule, even if an errata said that shouldn't exist (and it doesn't), that's solely your problem, and no one else's. That is to say, there is no problem at all.
C'mon! Ranger/ Druid has synergy... Alot of it is RP, but its still a great combo.
My favorite is still the ultimate one hit wonder: paladin/cavalier. Smite Evil Challenge Charge with a lance for 4d8 + 348 + whatever other magiky enchantments you add to the lance at endgame (More against undead/dragons/evil outsiders by another 80). More if you go beastrider, and more still if you can buy a saddle of giant strength for said beastie. Plus you get some really nice personal and group buffs. This kills most of the late game bbegs in one heroic blow.
In Unearthed Arcana it states that you go by each Level. This was left out of the d20srd and some of the later printings so they had more room.
@soupturtle: It is weird how it works out and it is only a certain level that it works that way... Though it is easier to work out with a 2 Level dip in 2 other classes.
So, it was in the first print, but it was left out of the later prints? You mean it was ERRATAED OUT?
You're arguing for a RAW that has been errataed out? What is this I don't even
Nope. It was cut to expand on the Spell Points System.
C'mon! Ranger/ Druid has synergy... Alot of it is RP, but its still a great combo.Sorry. Excessively similar fluff doesn't stack. It overlaps. Gestalt natureyness with more natureyness you still just wind up with natureyness.
You can combine natureyness with angry and get angry natureness or natureyness with zen and get zen natureyness, but if you combine natureyness with natureyness, well, you may as well combine natureyness with blandness.
Ranger//Druid is actually pretty awesome in a game that allows 3E material. I should know, I just recently played one up to level 18, and he was crazy powerful. 3E has tons of alternate class features to swap out many of the identical/similar ranger class features, and Menhir Savant in PF does a wonderful job of trimming them from the druid for great alternate abilities, too.
What you're left with is a dude w/ d10 HD, full BAB, all good saves, 6 + int skill points with huge list, a whole lot of bonus feats (some early entry), full spell casting w/ a domain AND animal companion, and wildshape. I say from experience...yowza! It is the ultimate Force of Nature.
If you are working in a group you might take the Druid's AC and then use the Ranger's Hunter's Bond(Companions).
Nope. It was cut to expand on the Spell Points System.
Wait, are we still talking about the fractional BAB rules here? If so, they were never cut. Just because you can't find them doesn't mean they were gone. It's in Unearthed Arcana, page 73, on a sidebar. They were never OGC, so they were never part of the SRD in any version. Unless you have some weird translated version of UA, it is there.