|
Catfolk, drow, hobgoblins, kobolds, orcs and ratfolk are all currently illegal? Is there a particular reason? Are they being rebalanced? Are any of these confirmed as illegal longterm or scheduled to become legal again at a particular time?
It seems odd to ban all of these races.
They're basically banned because they don't really fit into civilization in the humanocentric world that is Golarion, so it's not really all that odd to ban those races at all.
|
I can guarantee that Drow will never happen. And Half-Drow will never happen (they don't exist in Golarion).
It is highly unlikely that any "evil" races like Orcs, Kobolds, or Hobgoblins will ever see play in Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
As for the others, I have no idea if there are any plans to make them available at some point in the future, but if they aren't "evil" they have at least that going for them.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
It is highly unlikely that any "evil" races like Orcs, Kobolds, or Hobgoblins will ever see play in Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
Andrew, I'd like to introduce you to someone currently running around in PFS games near you...
Not that I like seeing evil races in PFS, personally, but they can be done properly by good players, I think. The trick is limiting them so that they are something special, I suppose, and not simply running rampant through the world.
|
I hope we never see anymore "evil" races opened up for PFS. I'm of the opinion that we've already go too many [races]. One way to increase the likelihood of an evil race to become legal, or at least limited is if Paizo publishes a splatbook with player options.
The goblins were a one time thing. I doubt there will be anything else like it.
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
I hope we never see anymore "evil" races opened up for PFS. I'm of the opinion that we've already go too many [races]. One way to increase the likelihood of an evil race to become legal, or at least limited is if Paizo publishes a splatbook with player options.
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
I think I remember Mike's response to someone, in the past, asking about kobold PCs in the future, "No."
It sounded pretty definitive :-)
I have no issues with that. But I don't know a lot of people who can tell their bosses to shove off, unless they want to lose their job.
|
I'm absolutely fine with not seeing more monstrous races as being "PC-enabled".
If goblins were available to everyone all the time, We Be Goblins! wouldn't have much (if any) of its associated draw; without WBG!, we'd have more trouble pulling in Pathfinder players in general.
Allowing goblins, kobolds, and the like as one-shot characters or as homeplay is just fine, but preserving the boundary between what is and what is not in theme with the campaign is far more important.
(though Sheila Heidmarch had some pretty interesting comments on newer recruits to the Pathfinder Society early on in one of the season 4 adventures that I really liked)
Vermin are people, too!
I agree! Kobolds should be legalized at once! The Paizo staffmembers are obviously just consumed with envy.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm certainly not a fan of too many races, but lots of people want variety. I had hoped that buying a hard copy of the APG would act as a "play a featured race boon". No photocopies or use of a PDF, so if you wanted a second one, shell out some more bucks. Likewise a real copy of "Kobolds of Golarion" has a "play one Kobold" boon page. While this isn't friendly to folks with a tight budget, if you really want to play a goblin, you can eventually scrape together enough for Goblins of Golarion.
Personally I find the whole Asian theme to more of a problem for "suspension of disbelief" than the monstrous and elemental races. The leaps of fantasy logic to justify a human ninja in Ustalav is worse than a tree hugging orc. Likewise for a drow PC: I don't want them to become routine, but I think that they're more thematically consistent around the Inner Sea than any kitsune or nagaji.
|
|
I'm certainly not a fan of too many races, but lots of people want variety. I had hoped that buying a hard copy of the APG would act as a "play a featured race boon". No photocopies or use of a PDF, so if you wanted a second one, shell out some more bucks. Likewise a real copy of "Kobolds of Golarion" has a "play one Kobold" boon page. While this isn't friendly to folks with a tight budget, if you really want to play a goblin, you can eventually scrape together enough for Goblins of Golarion.
Personally I find the whole Asian theme to more of a problem for "suspension of disbelief" than the monstrous and elemental races. The leaps of fantasy logic to justify a human ninja in Ustalav is worse than a tree hugging orc. Likewise for a drow PC: I don't want them to become routine, but I think that they're more thematically consistent around the Inner Sea than any kitsune or nagaji.
two words... Quiachang Kane (David Carradine in Kung Fu).
Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston
|
I'm certainly not a fan of too many races, but lots of people want variety. I had hoped that buying a hard copy of the APG would act as a "play a featured race boon". No photocopies or use of a PDF, so if you wanted a second one, shell out some more bucks. Likewise a real copy of "Kobolds of Golarion" has a "play one Kobold" boon page. While this isn't friendly to folks with a tight budget, if you really want to play a goblin, you can eventually scrape together enough for Goblins of Golarion.
Personally I find the whole Asian theme to more of a problem for "suspension of disbelief" than the monstrous and elemental races. The leaps of fantasy logic to justify a human ninja in Ustalav is worse than a tree hugging orc. Likewise for a drow PC: I don't want them to become routine, but I think that they're more thematically consistent around the Inner Sea than any kitsune or nagaji.
It's really a bit awkward to have ALL of your books on PDF, then have to carry around ONE hardcover book.
|
From a Golarion perspective the Drow have been presented as a secretive race who are hunted mercilessly by an entire secret society of Elves. Signs of Weakness (i.e good or neutral behavoir) are expunged immediately by having the perpetrator sacrificed to their demon lord masters.
Thus there are huge barriers to playing a Drow in PFS. Having a Goblin PC is a bit of a stretch but it's positively easy next to the prospect of a Drow PC.
|
Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover
|
All that asian hate again? What´s wrong with ninjas?
On my part, it´s rather boring to haev everything so human centered. After all, it´s a high magic fantasy setting. There should have been several non-human big and mighty emperies or states. As it is, there are some, but only in the "asian"-themed part of the world.
There was a thread about "inclusion" some days ago somewhere else on this board. I think being able to play a lot of other races than human, which might even be partly evil, or have huge nations of non-humans, gives great oportunities to discover inclusion and exclusion principles ingame.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Welcome to Golarion, Hayato Ken. All your suggestions make perfect sense in a generic "high fantasy" setting, but that's not the way James Jacobs and the Paizo staff decided to take Golarion lo those 7 years ago. The campaign is human-centered, and the campaign world is human-dominant by a considerable margin.
|
|
As soon as we find a race of people that live to around 1,000 years old, we can study them and see what type of society they would create. There is a reason going all the way back to Gygax the fantasy world is human-centric: We have no idea what a non-human-centric world would look like (this is why Gygax made it that only humans could go to max level).
|
Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover
|
Yeah i know that and i´m actually not moaning about it, since i really like Golarion. Only sometimes it´s a bit boring, but you can make up for that with the different themed nations.
I also think it makes sense to have a lot of stuff restricted in PFS, since that adds something cool that you kind of have to earn.
|
|
It's really a bit awkward to have ALL of your books on PDF, then have to carry around ONE hardcover book.
The intent was to give the folks who shelled out money limited access to the new races. I don't know how you could prevent making multiple copies from the PDF, but if you could, that would be fine by me. It is all moot now anyway.
No more playing evil races? What happens to all the humans in play now?
Blame the "Humans are the best, **** the rest" mentality of Golarion.
Welcome to Golarion, Hayato Ken. All your suggestions make perfect sense in a generic "high fantasy" setting, but that's not the way James Jacobs and the Paizo staff decided to take Golarion lo those 7 years ago. The campaign is human-centered, and the campaign world is human-dominant by a considerable margin.
The humanocentric nature of Golarion is one of the few things I really HATE (and I rarely use that word) about said campaign world as a whole. I don't have to worry about the silly restrictions of PFS myself, but I hope for the sake of those who do that they get more options for interesting races and characters in the future. Meanwhile, I'll either change a few of the human cultures of Golarion to actually be non-human (like making the Ulfen and Kellids into Dwarves instead) or just work on my own, non-humanocentric campaign world instead.
|
|
Since this is all about "Why is <race xyz> illegal", I'll bring up Gillmen! They are well-established in Golarion lore, they are not evil, they are not mechanically imbalanced (actually they are likely to be announced a weak race), and yet they are cool with all their "Azlant is my father, Azlant is my mother" background!
This coming from a person who opposes monster races (Aasimar/Tiefling/Tengu included).
Hi Brock.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
From a Golarion perspective the Drow have been presented as a secretive race who are hunted mercilessly by an entire secret society of Elves. Signs of Weakness (i.e good or neutral behavoir) are expunged immediately by having the perpetrator sacrificed to their demon lord masters.
Thus there are huge barriers to playing a Drow in PFS. Having a Goblin PC is a bit of a stretch but it's positively easy next to the prospect of a Drow PC.
I was always under the impression that in a fantasy RPG, the PC's were meant to be exceptions to the usual rules regarding race, class, alignment, and other things that get them stereotyped, i.e. all Drow being evil. In my opinion, it's a loss to ban all these races, not a benefit. I don't even know why the Catfolk have been banned from playable status...seriously, they're only about as unbalanced as elves. Maybe they don't have their own society per se, but they do what they can to fit in wherever they end up. And that sounds like a lot of missed opportunities for good storytelling to me.
Just my two coppers...
Gungnir
|
|
In my opinion, it's a loss to ban all these races, not a benefit. I don't even know why the Catfolk have been banned from playable status...seriously, they're only about as unbalanced as elves.
Patience. Just like other races that were once illegal (aasimar, tiefling, tengu, all the boon races) I am sure that some other races will make their way to us. Heck, I never thought Grippli would make it and lo and behold, we are getting a few of those come Gencon. We may eventually see Catfolk become legal for PFS play.
However, if you feel like you MUST play a catfolk, as others have mentioned in the past, please do look into a homegame. Hey, if you manage to play in Rise of the Runelords, Shattered Star or Reign of Winter, you will even get PFS credit for it!
|
|
And Half-Drow will never happen (they don't exist in Golarion).This gets passed around on the PFS threads a lot and it's really confusing folks interested in the setting.
Half-drow do exist. Mechanically, they're half-elves.
Half-drow can exist all you want in your homegame, just as countries with names like 'England' and 'The United States'. No one is stopping you.
As far as canon Golarion goes, which is what PFS is grounded in, there is no such thing as a half-drow. A drow that has a child with a non-drow will either have a 100% drow child or a 100% other-parent-race child. There is no mixing of drow blood in Golarion.
Edit: Now if you wanted to flavor your half-elf character as a half-drow, most of the time I wouldnt case (just like I dont care why the tengu is yellow, red, blue, or any color other than black). If you want to say your skin is ashen and your hair white, sure, go for it. Let's play a game and have some fun instead of arguing over what your imaginary character in a game based on make-believe actually looks like or is allowed to look like.
|
|
And Half-Drow will never happen (they don't exist in Golarion).This gets passed around on the PFS threads a lot and it's really confusing folks interested in the setting.
Half-drow do exist. Mechanically, they're half-elves.
Half-drow can exist all you want in your homegame, just as countries with names like 'England' and 'The United States'. No one is stopping you.
As far as canon Golarion goes, which is what PFS is grounded in, there is no such thing as a half-drow. A drow that has a child with a non-drow will either have a 100% drow child or a 100% other-parent-race child. There is no mixing of drow blood in Golarion.
1. Where is this stated?
2. Why would James Jacobs say otherwise?
|
|
And Half-Drow will never happen (they don't exist in Golarion).This gets passed around on the PFS threads a lot and it's really confusing folks interested in the setting.
Half-drow do exist. Mechanically, they're half-elves.
The developers have chimed in. I'm sorry I don't have the time to find the specific link at the moment. If I remember, I'll do so later today when I get home from work.
But Mark Moreland has said, and I paraphrase as I don't recall the exact quote, "Drow aren't interested in making half-drow. Half-drow just don't exist in Golarion. And if that lone half-drow ever did exist, it would be so rare and fantastical that it would be worth a novel or entire AP to build a story around they why, where, and how of it."
I'm gonna go with what one of the Developers of Golarion has to say, rather than what people posting on the boards have to say about half-drow in Golarion.
|
|
And Half-Drow will never happen (they don't exist in Golarion).This gets passed around on the PFS threads a lot and it's really confusing folks interested in the setting.
Half-drow do exist. Mechanically, they're half-elves.
Half-drow can exist all you want in your homegame, just as countries with names like 'England' and 'The United States'. No one is stopping you.
As far as canon Golarion goes, which is what PFS is grounded in, there is no such thing as a half-drow. A drow that has a child with a non-drow will either have a 100% drow child or a 100% other-parent-race child. There is no mixing of drow blood in Golarion.
1. Where is this stated?
2. Why would James Jacobs say otherwise?
1. Read my post above.
2. It is highly possible that James Jacobs was talking about the game rules, not the setting of Golarion.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
Yeah, the million other options you have for race x archetype combinations aren't interesting at all. /sarcasm
Tangental:
Do I want to play Klinok? Hells yes. Will I pout if I don't? No, I've enough to keep me busy.
Amusingly, I've yet to think of a good concept for a Tengu, nor for the Kitsune/Nagarah/shadow gnome thingy boon I have.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
How do the elf PCs with darkvision that keep popping up in play get it? I thought it was from the ARG, and they were said to have some Drow blood? (which is why my PC is always careful when asking who has Darkvision at the table, not singleing out the Elves so that I don't insult anyone - you know asking "Hay elf, you part drow?" just doesn't go over well).
Amusing Darkvision aside (Kingdom of the Impossible spoilers)
We discover the place is well lit. Enuck exclaims, "Enuck's darkvision work really good!"
|
|
No, James Jacobs was explicitly talking about Golarion.
Ban half-drow from PFS if you guys feel you have to, but suggesting they can't exist in the setting is really confusing for folks primarily interested in the setting.
Half-drow do not exist in Golarion, and if there were one or two that did exist (which is incredibly unlikely given that drow are irredeemably evil and not interested in making half-drow—except maybe driders) they'd be the focus of a large story like an AP or a novel or something like that rather than a dime-a-dozen PC concept. While we have half-drow traits in the ARG, that's more for folks using the Pathfinder RPG rules for their own games than for the Pathfinder Campaign Setting specifically.
|
|
Besides non-evil drow still existing in Golarion canon(in Second Darkness, disproving the "irredeemable" part), there's still that matter that James Jacobs's(the creative director of the setting) statement on the matter directly contradicts the statement.
Again, I'm not talking about PFS' ban on any drow-related characters. I'm talking about the statements made to justify that ban that innacurately paint the setting.