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*** Pathfinder Society GM. 96 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 13 Organized Play characters.


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Grand Lodge

Qaianna wrote:
Honestly, I'd trust your players and just let them know your expectations of armour and what you're looking for.

Bingo. RPGs are co-operative story telling with dice (usually). Session Zero is for getting everyone on the same page. In addition to alignments, goals, and theme, it should include setting. If your story works better without heavy armor, say so up front. Then ban it and move on. If you are running an evil game you say "no paladins", right? Same thing.

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In PF1 the falcatta could be used as a longsword. I think the clan dagger should be useable by anyone as a regular dagger. Some dwarves learn all the tricks, but usually it is just a fancy dagger.

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Mark Seifter wrote:
... allowed the party to avoid I think over 20 encounters in a 30+ room dungeon, fighting only 4 times (negotiating once, so 5 encounters).

This is heresy to some folks. Encounters and conflict are why many people play. My son is unhappy when one of my diplomancers talks us past an encounter. His logic is that I basically soloed it and prevented the rest of the party from participating/enjoying that creature.

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Sporkedup wrote:

The problem with basing more conflict on order v. chaos instead of good v. evil is that players in general will always avoid being too constrained by rules and laws in game, even if they're completely good guys. Seems most folks feel restrained enough by order in real life that they'd like to try some more free-spirited gaming.

Perhaps for casual gaming. I like Cheliax and how its sense of unity itand destiny have been corrupted by hell. This is playing with subtleties on the lawful end of the alignment spectrum. For a while now that has been my thing

Quote:
I haven't seen an interesting concept of true neutrality yet, unfortunately. A true champion of balance would have to be truly horrific from time to time to balance out the heroic acts involved in saving the world or whatever that happens in most APs. The three neutral deities in CRB (Nethys, Pharasma, and Gozreh) are all very different from each other.

The common thread for those three is the relative disregard for mortals. Magic, nature, and a well ordered life/death cycle are what is important. Basically a TN champion is dedicated to a cause that has little to do with people. Focusing on something like that seems a bit niche, but in sure someone somewhere will come up with a good story based using them.

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Must we have pan-neutral champions? I want one champion group for each of the four alignments. We have good, so evil, law and chaos are what I want to see. And I think the corners have to pick. A LG champion in the Godclaw has to be the lawful variety, not the existing good one.

I read a lot of Michael Moorcock when I was a kid. I want more law vs chaos to balance out good vs evil.

That said, I don't mind a true neutral champion, but it should be distinct, not bundled with LN and CN. I still don't like how Faiths of Balance handled things. LN and CN have as much in common as NG and NE, but no one tries to lump those two together.

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I think most Rahadoumi would like to be gods. Most folks have power fantasies. They might want to follow in Irori's footsteps, or maybe Nethys. And the starstone appeals to them as well. They just won't subjugate themselves to any divine overlord to get there.

Refusing to follow a god is not the same as opposing that god. An artist might be glad that Shelyn inspires works of art, and might even hope for inspiration, but won't actively ask for divine help. Some things are not worth the cost.

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Hmm. Replace magic traditions with ritual learning. That makes sense for communal witches but hurts the self taught variety. I don't see Granny Weatherwax being limited by what she is taught. Adding to known spells via eating scrolls just means more expensive spell acquisition. So this means broader choice than most at the cost of fewer spells and less loot.

I like this flavor for some witches, but this will be painful in PFS and published modules. As you are off saving the world, there will be little/no interaction with your coven, so you will feel the downside of the limited choice of spells. I think this will be mostly for NPCs, or home games.

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They focus on divine agents, not Gods, so whatever they think of a particular God, they will still persecute priests. A priest of Irori might be able to hide it better than most. But if directly questioned will need to lie.

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Any 20th level cleric can cast miracle. Would that make all of them candidates for sainthood?

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I like hexes all day, but real spells being infrequent. Witch != Wizard.

I never had much patron interaction as one of my witches was PFS and the other was Skull & Shackles. Premade stuff doesn't encourage the GM to adapt. :-( I'd like for patrons to matter more, but I'm not not sure how.

Potions are cool, but need to be optional. In S&S our ship was a floating chemical factory as that was a potion focused witch. And it pissed me off that alchemists could do it better. Most witches might not care about potions, but those who do should be among the best.

That witch also had flight and water breathing, so really was into utility abilities. I never thought that it felt witchy, but it was useful in play.

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I don't think of the familiar as being an independent creature, but as a projection of the witch. It has its own personality and free will, but it exists because of the witch. This is a bit like an Eidalon in reverse.

The first thing a patron teaches is how to create this being and how to bind it into an animal. The only spell a witch can prepare without a familiar is Bind Familiar. This means when a familiar is killed, the next day the witch prepares and casts Bind Familiar and is back in business. Finding a vessel (the right animal) is up to the witch. This could be tweaked for mirrors, crystals, etc.

This does nothing to stop the familiar from being so squishy, but it gets the familiar back on line more quickly. It does mean losing spells makes no sense.

What do folks think of lucky familiars? They always have Fortune for making saves, and attacks against them have Misfortune. It seems thematically right, and makes them tougher but not indestructible.

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Claudius16309 wrote:
Isn't a hex cantrip a...cantrip?

Yes. Normally cantrips are tied to specific traditions. The hex cantrips would be tied to patrons, so might be a bit more mix and match.

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Mechagamera wrote:
There could be a greater or major lesson that teaches the familiar summon fiend or celestial. No reason the lessons (except for the first lesson) have to be restricted by tradition.

That is pretty much what I was thinking, but I was trying to hand wave the mechanics a bit. I could see the spell or the ritual as the vehicle. The key is it is made available via a class feat.

Grand Lodge

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Initially I thought the witch should be able to access all four traditions, but I've come around to no divine witches. One of the cornerstones of witches is figuring things out. They are not granted powers, they are taught secrets and figure the rest out on thier own. That seems reasonable for arcane and occult. Primal is a bit more of a stretch, but OK. Divine is not self taught, even with a patron/mentor. Clerics, divine sorcerers, and oracles all do thier thing without understanding it. Totally different vibe.

The thing I really don't like about this is summoning demons and devils. Getting an imp or quasit to spy and cause mayhem feels right. If I remember summoning correctly, Summon Fiend is divine only. That means the Planar Binding ritual is how a non divine witch would have to do this. For some GMs, that won't be an issue. But for PFS, I expect it to be very rare. Summon Celestial is in the same boat, so Glynda cannot summon Archons either.

Would it make sense for the witch to have a class feat for summoning rituals? More generically, some mechanism to learn any ritual? Perhaps at the cost of fewer spells? I've never thought that standard spells were the bread and butter of this class.

Grand Lodge

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Dubious Scholar wrote:
That just makes the last focus point needlessly punishing to spend. I'm not a fan of the grit/panache 1+ stuff in 1e for the same reason. Anything that makes spending a resource more painful is bad - people already hold off on burning resources as is.

Agreed. I like cantrip hexes for weak, spam all day effects that are relatively small, plus focus hexes for the bigger stuff. I don't see any reason to limit the first because you have no mojo for the second.

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WatersLethe wrote:

Arcane - The Maiden

Primal - The Mother
Occult - The Crone

I think that works for some witches, bit not all. It wouldn't work for either that I have played, nor for the one I want to play next.

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I kinda like this. But it is a huge win for the witch. Wouldn't a single action to cast a spell break the action economy? Maybe it would be better to spend the actions normally, but the spells come from the familiar. Sensible witches will hide thier familiar on themselves (shirt pocket or whatever), but the risk takers can send it forward to engage the enemy at close range. Presumably the next round will be run and hide.

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ikarinokami wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Why aren't Ranger, Barbarian and Champion just Fighter feats?
they certainly could have been, like in previous edition of D&D.

Yeah. I was kinda hoping that PF2 was going to have just 4-6 classes that provided less than classes do now, and everyone has one or more archetypes/subclasses which provide more than just feat options.

Grand Lodge

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Rysky wrote:
Panache Mode and Finishers are cool.

Agreed. And that would fit nicely in an archetype. Too bad that would mean no Confident Finish until 2nd level, if the Dedication even provided it.

Grand Lodge

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My preference is towards fewer classes, so I have mixed feelings about this witch. I like the old witch better. As-is, it doesn't stand out, so I am not sure it deserves a class

To justify a full class, it shouldn't just be a spell caster. All hexes all day was the schtick, and I liked it. Some nerfing is fine. My main witch stopped using slumber because it was no fun. My second witch never took that hex.

I think I'd like fewer spells. That along with most hexes converted to cantrips would make the witch distinctly non wizard.

Overall I don't think the focus power mechanism feels witchy. Maybe for big stuff, but certainly not the basic hexes. And focus point cost with 24h immunity seems like a double whammy.

I think a focus spell to remove hex immunity for making a save would be good. Basically burn a point and two actions to gain the chance to try again. And perhaps a cackle variant that burns focus to sustain all active hexes.

Also I'd like a bigger tie in to rituals. Getting things done without spells feels right.

Finally I want to mention patrons. I lean towards keeping them vague. If you know who your daddy is, you are a cleric. I prefer The-Magic-Sword's approach #1 because I now *must* create a witch whose patron is the collective Godclaw. Hellknights and witches together is too awesome to pass up.

Grand Lodge

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Zwordsman wrote:
IF it had to be "not its own class" it could be an Archetype, which would be narritively interesting.

I think that investigator would be better off as an archetype. Just the essential abilities mixed in with any class. Making it a rogue racket could work, but that seems needlessly limiting. Wizard and alchemist seem investigator friendly.

I understand they want it for CSI:Absalom. Changing investigator to something other than a class could affect that AP. So I'm afraid that choice has already been made.

Grand Lodge

So non clerical operatives of Asmodeus would be Oracles to get around the alignment/world view restriction? Perhaps a few Witches where Asmodeus is the Patron? Of course there will be many other classes too, but I'm focusing on those who get class abilities directly from Asmodeus.

My reasoning isn't limited to Asmodeus. Someone who dedicates thier life to getting revenge could be a worshipper of Calistra. And she might agree to help. The alignment restriction there seems unwarranted as well.

I have a lot of respect for James Jacob, but this isn't how I'd do it. Maybe this explains why he gets the big bucks.

Grand Lodge

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I guess I'm in the minority in that I don't think Asmodeus cares what your alignment is, and that includes divine spell casters too. Becoming a cleric of his means entering into a contract. As long as you fufill your end of the bargain, nothing else matters.

So, yes, I'm OK with paladins of Asmodeus. Sure, said paladin would be LAWFUL good and have Smite Chaos. So long as the mortal does as he is told, that mortal is an effective servant/slave. Perhaps one who can do things other servants cannot. But failure do as agreed means the punitive clauses in the contract will literally mean a living hell for the mortal.

Asmodeus worship isn't a religion based on love. It is all duty, obligations, and betrayal. Lots of Spock's Beard style promotion by getting superiors to screw up. Legalistic arguments about where the lines actually are would be common. "Lawyer Up" would be a class skill/skill feat for just about everyone.

I accept that this isn't the direction that the setting has taken. But it feels like some richness, subtlety, and moral ambiguity has been lost.

FWIW non evil worshippers will have trouble staying alive in the Church of Asmodeus, much less getting to positions of power. But if that is what a PC wants to try, sure

Grand Lodge

I like the flavor of the Aldori, but I have trouble with it mechanically. A strength fighter with a longsword needs fewer feats. A rogue with Dex to damage will appreciate the d8, but again, lots of feats and likely to just be expert compared to the fighter's mastery

What am I missing? Why would I make this build?

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Any word if the 2e Kingmaker will use these GMG rules, of if it will have custom rules?

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It has been a month or two since I listened to it, but it was covered at one of the paizocon panels. I think it may have been

http://knowdirectionpodcast.com/podcasts/PC2019-038-PhilosophyBehindPathfin derSecondEdition.mp3

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The swordlord archetype is in the LOWG, but I don't see the sword itself. How much does one cost?

Also, if you have one but aren't trained, does it just act like a standard longsword?

Grand Lodge 3/5

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RealAlchemy wrote:
Agreed. I for one am tired of "neutral because society doesn't let me be evil" characters seeing how far they can push the boundaries and then complaining that good characters are the problem.

My Inquisitor of Asmodeus was trained to be LN specifically so he could operate outside of the Empire. He never did anything to jeopardize his position in the society, so he was squeeky clean. He never committed *any* evil acts. Ever. Well, just some minor mocking of Andoran (East Cheliax) and Halflings.

Personally I'm an old fart and I don't enjoy playing evil characters, but I do enjoy moral grey areas. This witch hunt to stop boundary pushing would prevent me from playing one of my favorite characters. Fortunately he is 14th level so I have a "been there, done that" attitude to this concept.

I don't have a solution to stop people from being dicks. But I want it to be clear that some concepts which are not problematic will now be illegal. Collateral damage is always unfortunate.

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Someone commented that halflings are the only race that has a special feat.

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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

As the title.

I reviewed the proficiency scaling, and I thought it was strange that the baseline is now Level + 2, with it scaling up to Level + 8. I don't mind the scaling so much, but the baseline I feel will confuse players and might make them add things when they shouldn't. Or I might get players who ask "Why do we add +2 when we're trained," to which the only valid response I have is "The Devs wanted it that way."

Level+0 is the mod for untrained skills with the Untrained Improvisation feat. Feedback from the playtest said that folks wanted untrained to be less useful, so now you need a feat to get to Level+0.

Grand Lodge 3/5

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NightTrace wrote:
Confirmed to be finished as of last night and on the final step before upload. :)

Where was this confirmation? Any place us unwashed masses can see? I feel like a kid at a candy store, but the store is padlocked.

Grand Lodge 3/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:
Paizo has a special plan for releasing the Guide, but it requires some setup. The current timeline has the new 2E Guide being unveiled on the 29th.

Did that happen? If not, what is the revised time line?

Grand Lodge

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Will regular rogues be able to do ranged ledgerdemain and impromptu sneak attack? I'm ok with regular rogues getting impromptu, but only a magical rogue (not necessarily arcane) should be able to disarm traps at 30'.

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One of my favorite PF1 characters is an arcane trickster with the Fey bloodline. I was thinking about how to represent him in PF2. I understand that mostly he'll be a rogue with the sorcerer dedication. But if an arcane trickster prestige archetype comes out, would he qualify? The Fey bloodline means the nature tradition, which isn't likely to have Mage Hand. I guess I'd have to pick a different bloodline to meet that requirement. Or am I missing something?

No, I don't have CRB2 yet. I decided to support my FLGS so I have to wait a few more days.

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One of my favorite PF1 characters is an arcane trickster with the Fey bloodline. I was thinking about how to represent him in PF2. I understand that mostly he'll be a rogue with the sorcerer dedication. But if an arcane trickster prestige archetype comes out, would he qualify? The Fey bloodline means the nature tradition, which isn't likely to have Mage Hand. I guess I'd have to pick a different bloodline to meet that requirement. Or am I missing something?

No, I don't have CRB2 yet. I decided to support my FLGS so I have to wait a few more days.

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Vidmaster7 wrote:

I can't think of any role-playing games without progression.... probably because they would be boring.

1980 era Traveller didn't have any experience based advancement. You created a character who was already skilled (and may have died in the process) and that was it. There was a training mechanism, but I believe it was 4 years of in-game time to get a +1.

No mechanical character growth is fine for a few sessions. I kinda liked that you could focus on the story without caring about advancement. But clearly that style of play is fringe at best.

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Kyrone, that seems like a fine approach, but I can also see the bane aspects tied to the primal tradition. Identify and kill is not unique to priests, even if PF1 did it that way. I agree that judgements should be tied to the cleric class.

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Bane could make you expert with the weapon and provide bonus dice. Greater Bane would be legendary with more dice. Likewise judgements could improve your save proficiencies, bump your skill level with weapons and/or armor. Fast Healing will still be a thing, right? I don't expect as-is for any crunch, but most of it can be translated.

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I hope that the gish options (spell strike, arcane pool, bane, judgement, etc) are not tied to full classes, but rather are archetypes. Bane seems natural for divine and primal traditions, so it would be nice if a single archetype handled both.

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Any idea if oracle and/or witch will straddle the different types of magic like the sorcerer does?

Grand Lodge 3/5

Has the release date for the season 1 guild guide been announced? Will it be at GenCon or just before?

Grand Lodge 3/5

Has the release date for the season 1 guild guide been announced? Will it be at GenCon or just before?

Grand Lodge

Joana, what was the figher's to hit? It should have been +6. +4 for STR (it is 18, right?), +1 for level, and +1 because fighters are expert in non-exotic weapons. I doubt if +5 vs +6 changed that much, but still. Forgetting the power attack was likely a bigger deal.

Grand Lodge 3/5

One of the silliest sessions I've ever seen involved everyone creating a goblin that would have been PFS legal except for the lack of the official goblin boon. That and "PVP is legal, always non-lethal and heals at the end of the encounter" meant for one fun WBG! I especially liked the goblin barbarian that took a nap after raging because he was tired, even if combat was still going on.

Grand Lodge 3/5

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The Citadel of Flame is a straight forward dungeon crawl. There is a little bit of non-combat, but only as a run up to fighting something.

I run the 12-18 year old game at the FLGS, and the biggest hit I had was with Mists of the Mwangi. I reskinned the gas to make the PCs impulsive. If you get hungry, you eat. If you get mad, you hit. They loved it and ended up having a souvenir collection of ears, and playing kickball with skulls. Not standard PFS, but the kids got into it.

Grand Lodge 3/5

Well done, Myles. We've got to finish getting you through Eyes of the Ten so you can run at Gamer's Armory. We'll get you that sixth star in no time.

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Stereofm wrote:
It was a pain in the beginning, but you get used to it : somehow it was decided that a square was 1.5 M (IIRC) and everybody went with that.

The first time I saw it was with traveller back around 1979 or so. They used 1.5m squares, because it was close to 5'. Also a 1.5m sided cube is about quarter the volume of a metric ton of liquid hydrogen. So when they measured spaceship size (volume) in "tons", that mapped kinda well to a grid for drawing out deck plans.

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Oh. If you want a trading company, I'd recommend Absalom. Ship based travel can get you just about anywhere, and it is on some major trading routes.

Nirmathas is a fine choice. You might want to check out the module Crypt of the Everflame as it is set there. I think Masks of the Living God is set there too. They might give you some extra background material. Dunno.

Grand Lodge

I've had fun with the standard table. I rolled an Ogre which nearly TPK'd the first levels. But a failed ambush by 5 goblins was a lot of fun.

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