Hello,
after (re)reading Yet Another Fantasy Gamer Comic I started thinking about how half-drow with a non-human parent would look like. I used the template from Plot & Poison as a starting point, but didn't really like it and the Plot & Poison drow are quite different from Pathfinder drow, so I made some changes.
Please comment.^^
Don't like it. Half-Drows are in effect half elves with minor changes. Dark vision for instance could stay, spell resistance and the spell like I would drop. Maybe let ONE spell like there. No need to make it +1 either.
Don't like it. Half-Drows are in effect half elves with minor changes. Dark vision for instance could stay, spell resistance and the spell like I would drop. Maybe let ONE spell like there. No need to make it +1 either.
Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I thought about that... The Plot and Poison version gave it even the complete ability adjustments of a full-blood drow, that was truly ridicoulous.
The problem is just: No CR Adjustments and everybody would take it. Free Darkvision and a spell-like ability? Heck yes! But if there is a CR Adjustment there has to be something that's worth it.Additionally drow are a bit more powerful than elves, so I don't see a big problem with their offspring being a bit more powerful too.
Don't like it. Half-Drows are in effect half elves with minor changes. Dark vision for instance could stay, spell resistance and the spell like I would drop. Maybe let ONE spell like there. No need to make it +1 either.Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I thought about that... The Plot and Poison version gave it even the complete ability adjustments of a full-blood drow, that was truly ridicoulous.
The problem is just: No CR Adjustments and everybody would take it. Free Darkvision and a spell-like ability? Heck yes! But if there is a CR Adjustment there has to be something that's worth it.
Additionally drow are a bit more powerful than elves, so I don't see a big problem with their offspring being a bit more powerful too.
Dark-vision and a spell like makes them more powerful already. There are the social problems there. There isn't ONE race that will like you. The drow will think you an abomination, kill you on sight, the elves... well, you know. And all the others will be at least VERY suspicious. I don't think a CR adjustment is needed at all.
If you think the darkvision and spell like is too much (since they will be an improved half elf, without the multiclass option though, I would say) Give them light sensitivity, that should put things on par.
Dark-vision and a spell like makes them more powerful already. There are the social problems there. There isn't ONE race that will like you. The drow will think you an abomination, kill you on sight, the elves... well, you know. And all the others will be at least VERY suspicious. I don't think a CR adjustment is needed at all.
Social problems aren't a very good way to balance things. Sure, there are groups that roleplay properly, but there also those where a party consists of Drizzt's forgotten half-brother, his second grade cousin and and his niece without having any problems when entering a village.
If you think the darkvision and spell like is too much (since they will be an improved half elf, without the multiclass option though, I would say) Give them light sensitivity, that should put things on par.
They are not an improved half-elf. A half-elf isn't just any elf hybrid, but specifically a human-elf hybrid. The template is meant mainly for cases where humans aren't involved. As I wrote it's based on the one of Plot and Poison, that did the job but had a few problems. And I don't like to add weaknesses to a template that are mainly culture-based.
In Golarion, there might be no such thing as half-drow, due to the spoiler-y nature of Drow. Half-Drow might just be normal half-elves, and, lacking darkvision, be at a substantial disadvantage in the realms of their cruel parents.
To be honest, I don't really care about Golarion, I'm a Planescape/Forgotten Realms guy who likes the Pathfinder system. :D
They are not an improved half-elf. A half-elf isn't just any elf hybrid, but specifically a human-elf hybrid. The template is meant mainly for cases where humans aren't involved. As I wrote it's based on the one of Plot and Poison, that did the job but had a few problems. And I don't like to add weaknesses to a template that are mainly culture-based.
I'm not sure "culture-based" is the word. The light sensitivity is a physical problem of the drow. It's fair to assume that it could pass to it's offspring.
Human-elf hybrid is the most likelly explanation for a "half-drow" anything else is complicated to say the least, and impossible at most. There are 2nd edition books that I do like, explaining phisiology and such, drows cannot procriate with any race, in fact, the only race that is "fair for all" are the humans, another advantage of the race.
For us to help you out, it would be better if you said what you are mixing it with.
I'm not sure "culture-based" is the word. The light sensitivity is a physical problem of the drow. It's fair to assume that it could pass to it's offspring.
I always saw it as a cultural disadvantage because at least 95% of the drow live underground with almost no light sources, while a feat exists to adapt their sight to the surface. ;-)
Human-elf hybrid is the most likelly explanation for a "half-drow" anything else is complicated to say the least, and impossible at most. There are 2nd edition books that I do like, explaining phisiology and such, drows cannot procriate with any race, in fact, the only race that is "fair for all" are the humans, another advantage of the race.
Yes, for the human-drow hybrid there are even rules in the FRCS, they just get 60-foot darkvision and are otherwise completely ordinary half-elves with black skin, silver or white hair and human eye colours.
Sure, humans are the most compatible, and those rules are fine for them, but D&D had a whole bunch of half-templates. Half-dragon, half-fey, half-fiend, half-celestial, half-nymph, half-ogre, half-troll etc. So why not a half-drow?For us to help you out, it would be better if you said what you are mixing it with.
I wrote it into the template description. Any non-elf humanoid (for example an orc, half-orc or gnoll), monstrous humanoid (like a medusa) or native outsider (like aasimar and tiefling).
I always saw it as a cultural disadvantage because at least 95% of the drow live underground with almost no light sources, while a feat exists to adapt their sight to the surface. ;-).
ADAPTATION is the word here. They all have the light sensitivity feature, the feat is to counter that. It's not like drows are born without the disadvantage, they all have it, some may adapt (buying the feat) and some not. So putting it in your template seems like a fair deal to me.
Yes, for the human-drow hybrid there are even rules in the FRCS, they just get 60-foot darkvision and are otherwise completely ordinary half-elves with black skin, silver or white hair and human eye colours.
Sure, humans are the most compatible, and those rules are fine for them, but D&D had a whole bunch of half-templates. Half-dragon, half-fey, half-fiend, half-celestial, half-nymph, half-ogre, half-troll etc. So why not a half-drow?.
Dragon, Fey, Fiend, Celestial and Nymph; can mate with anything, it's part of their nature and their phisiology. So, they can be aplied to any creature, the ogre and troll I haven't seen, and do not agree with it, even if there is something about it. Making a "half-drow" template implies that they can mate with anything, that their bloodline is strong enough to give any creature diferent abilities, which I believe it's a mistake, cause if their bloodline is strong enough to do that and their phisiology permits them to impregnate (or be impregnated) with anything, then the elves should have the same "template".
I wrote it into the template description. Any non-elf humanoid (for example an orc, half-orc or gnoll), monstrous humanoid (like a medusa) or native outsider (like aasimar and tiefling).
In the cases you are talking about (living phisical restrictions aside) I do not believe their bloodline would be strong enough to give anything too diferent than what those races already have. Even if it is, I don't think a template would be the best way to go about this, I think a case by case scenario would be better. For instance a Medusa-Drow offspring could have dark skin, dark-vision, light sensitivity and maybe some spell like or even a little Spell resistance (5+HD being the minimum possible, acording to the rules). But an orc could have completely diferent abilities. As I said, I think, case by case would be better for you to work with.
ADAPTATION is the word here. They all have the light sensitivity feature, the feat is to counter that. It's not like drows are born without the disadvantage, they all have it, some may adapt (buying the feat) and some not. So putting it in your template seems like a fair deal to me.
Well, for me it always was a balancing feature and if you wanted one of the rare drow who grew up on the surface you had to take the feat on first level, but your view is as valid.
Dragon, Fey, Fiend, Celestial and Nymph; can mate with anything, it's part of their nature and their phisiology. So, they can be aplied to any creature, the ogre and troll I haven't seen, and do not agree with it, even if there is something about it. Making a "half-drow" template implies that they can mate with anything, that their bloodline is strong enough to give any creature diferent abilities, which I believe it's a mistake, cause if their bloodline is strong enough to do that and their phisiology permits them to impregnate (or be impregnated) with anything, then the elves should have the same "template".
Well, they do exist, as do half-doppelgangers, half-minotaurs and many more. I believe a lot of them were published in the Dragon. And I think some of them are a lot weirder than for example drow-orc hybrids. That elves should also have a template is exactly what I think. As should orcs and a lot of other races (even better would be easily accessible hybrid rules like in Star Trek or more complicated ones like in The Dark Eye). The problem is, that they are weaker than drow. You either have to give someone all their abilties to merit an increase in CR (what would be dumb, no template should give everything of the base creature half-dragons don't become full dragons with extra-abilities either) or nothing because otherwise they're a free bonus. So while I'm not entirely happy with just drow having their template I can live with it because they are stronger than other elves.
In the cases you are talking about (living phisical restrictions aside) I do not believe their bloodline would be strong enough to give anything too diferent than what those races already have. Even if it is, I don't think a template...
Well, I do think like the people who wrote Plot & Poison that the offspring of drow would be different from the other parent base creature. I'm generally in favour of hybrids inheriting special abilities from their parents (maybe that's my inner Trekkie, look at Spock, Deanna Troi and B'Elanna Torres) and of the roleplaying application. It would be kind of funny if an abused half-drow child turns out even more powerful than its drow parent and wants to take revenge.
And I suppose they are quite rare, by the way. If they still possess their backgrounding from Forgotten Realms, drows are egotistic and consider themselves "Elites". There better be a good reason for one to mate with something else than another pureblood drow.
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Half-drow do exist in Golarion, but statistics-wise they're identical to half-elves. They tend to have dusky skin tones and red or violet eyes and pale hair, but are otherwise just half-elves.
Thank you James. Some people need to be reminded that not every concept needs special rules. this was the kind of thinking that led to the race bloat of 3rd Edition.
Creative Director
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And I suppose they are quite rare, by the way. If they still possess their backgrounding from Forgotten Realms, drows are egotistic and consider themselves "Elites". There better be a good reason for one to mate with something else than another pureblood drow.
They're VERY rare. I'm pretty sure we haven't had one show up in any of our products yet... and we've had some pretty outlandish critters show up in our products.
Half drow would likely be the result of the drow raping their slaves In which most of them are killed, abandoned, or used as slaves themselves. In my setting the the elves are from another continent (known by the rest of the world as the Lost World) who were enslaved by giants, like in Eberron. When the giant's empire fell the elves split into three clans: the Savaldi, Urkai, and the Drow. The first two factions left the continent and the drow stayed. The drow hate the other clans for abandoning their home land and view them as lesser beings. The other other clans view the drow as savage degenerates.
Thank you James. Some people need to be reminded that not every concept needs special rules. this was the kind of thinking that led to the race bloat of 3rd Edition.
Maybe you should read my post again. It's specifically about half-drow without a human parent. Half-elves are specifically human-elf hybrids.
And the thinking that not every concept needs special rules is exactly what made me switch from 4th edition to Pathfinder. Because that's what D&D 4th Edition is all about. Standardised, completely balanced, bland rules. It's horrible. I take the race bloat anytime over trying again to make a dragonborn works as a half-dragon. If Pathfinder starts the same thinking I'll quit D20 for good.
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In Golarion, there might be no such thing as half-drow, due to the spoiler-y nature of Drow. Half-Drow might just be normal half-elves, and, lacking darkvision, be at a substantial disadvantage in the realms of their cruel parents.
Don't forget, not with standing the spoilybits, drow breed true, so a biological halfdrow is feasible.
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Thank you James. Some people need to be reminded that not every concept needs special rules. this was the kind of thinking that led to the race bloat of 3rd Edition.Maybe you should read my post again. It's specifically about half-drow without a human parent. Half-elves are specifically human-elf hybrids.
It may be the case though that they don't breed true hybrids, dwarves and elves don't make viable off spring, dwarves and humans produce pure blooded (although shorter/stouter) human offspring. So it may just not work. That being said, if you want a pure game mechanic solution, your going to end up with some beefy half-minataur, half-celestial, half-drow fighter as people layer on the templates, and if that isn't a kid with an identity crisis I don't know what is.
It may be the case though that they don't breed true hybrids, dwarves and elves don't make viable off spring, dwarves and humans produce pure blooded (although shorter/stouter) human offspring. So it may just not work. That being said, if you want a pure game mechanic solution, your going to end up with some beefy half-minataur, half-celestial, half-drow fighter as people layer on the templates, and if that isn't a kid with an identity crisis I don't know what is.
Stacking templates is not my intention and doesn't make much sense. In 3.X there was the level adjustment, in Pathfinder there seems to be only a CR-adjustment at the moment. Counting as a Level 10 character with only one hit die may be fun on level 1. After that it becomes more and more annoying.
I would assume that you can only apply two half templates to a single creature.......
If you use logic you can only apply one half-template. The other half should be the base creature. Of course then we go into the question what happens when a half-fiendish drow has a kid with a shadow dragon. Then we would have to go into quarter-templates, the big problem with the half-templates is that the resulting creature isn't half base/half template but base + half-template. Personally I don't want to go there, weird family constellations shouldn't get that far. :D