PFS Summoners... are they any good... Prove it.


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I have been looking over the summoner for sometime now. looks like alot of the interesting archetypes are shot down by PFS.

In the PFS setting what makes the summoner a good choice?

Are they only good to call in cannon fodder?

What are the biggest mistakes a player makes when building his summoner.

How can I prevent a build that is a cookie cutter build that looks like any other summoner?

I see one drawback of the summoner is that unless there was a way to drop the eidolon for a alternative benefit the class is unmulticlassible. I have heard there is no combination of multiclass that summoners benefit from due to the Eidolon would fall behind.

I have always like the idea of the pokemon type summoner that could generate his own summon list as oppose the the list the spell gives.

Grand Lodge

The eidolon is your 'first summon', which you can tailor to your playstyle, and do well at it.

When it goes down? All is -far- from lost, because you drop down to the standard summon spells, which you can cast as a -standard- action instead of one round, a gargantuan difference, and last for minutes instead of rounds.

I have saved two parties from UTTER DOOM as a level 1 summoner. Eidolon went down after being quite useful, started summoning things behind enemies until victory was in hand.


Nuku is correct. The summoner is a force multiplier. The number of his high level summons is tremendous when compared to other conjurers.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DrkMagusX wrote:
I see one drawback of the summoner is that unless there was a way to drop the eidolon for a alternative benefit the class is unmulticlassible. I have heard there is no combination of multiclass that summoners benefit from due to the Eidolon would fall behind.

The Summoner isn't the only class that doesn't multi-class well, but then again, that's not the measure of a class.

For Society play though they work VERY well, but that's dependent on the skill and imagination of the player, especially one who remembers that the Eidolon is not the only feature of the class. There are times when I've gone through entire scenarios with my summoner without bringing the big beast out. It seems the class itself is designed for two distinct styles of play,one in which the Eidolon is the core feature, and another that it's the SLA's. And I took feats to bolster the utility of the latter.

Grand Lodge

Both are awesome. I went for augment summon out of the gate, but I do adore my freaky eido-buddy. I use him as my first line, but do not mourn him when he gets beat about. He's a trooper, he can take it!


In the games I've played, the summoner's pet did significant damage and had better mobility than any other melee PC. It had decent AC so it wouldn't die easily. The summoner himself had amazing battlefield control and had almost all of the skills needed for the scenario. Since the single PC effectively had 2 actions per round (if desired) the summoner could have solo'd this particular scenario.

Inquisitors and Alchemists with their combination of skills and firepower will often make other PCs look inadequate at low levels, but the summoner with his action advantage takes it to another level.

When the summoner was first created I had a feeling that this would be the case. Pet classes (whether in table top or video games) are notoriously hard to balance.

Mistakes? Even the most experienced players make many mistakes when making the Eidolon, and they're hard to audit.

Why would you need to multiclass? Summoners can do it all.

My 2 cents.

DrkMagusX wrote:
I have always like the idea of the pokemon type summoner that could generate his own summon list as oppose the the list the spell gives.

Play a home game and do whatever you want. Re-skin anything to your liking. Can't do it in PFS however.

Also, summoning a bunch of mobs isn't really PFS or player friendly. Summoned mobs can often block PCs from fighting and unless you're really fast at rolling/calculating, your turn will take too long. Discretion must be used.

Grand Lodge

we got a phrase for the summoner in our area..

"Suddenly.. Dogs.." Cause let me tell you lots of Superior Summoned Dogs have helped save our butts LOTS of times.


Never mind that with the rights summons a summoner can heal, deal ranged dps, or scout.

A good summoner not only looks at a summoned creatures capabilities in combat but what they can do out of combat.


I'm running a summoner right now, just finished Accursed Halls in Thornkeep with him. A few thoughts:

1. I built my eidolon to be useful all around. While he's definitely got Claw Claw Bite action, he also has Skilled: Perception and Skilled: UMD and Improved Natural Armor. My eidolon can use CLW wands if the party lacks a caster with the spell on their list and has a monstrous +13 Perception at level 2.

2. I buff my eidolon. That said, I'm playing a melee summoner with 18 STR and only 14 CHA, so I selected only buff spells and no-save offensives. My eidolon's walking AC at level 2 is 21 with Mage Armor. If I have slots available, I can get his AC up to 27.

3. I cannot stress how awesome it is to use your Summon Monster ability mid-combat if you or your eidolon drops. I was knocked out after my eidolon failed a save vs Cause Fear. A bard got me back to consciousness and I summoned a pony into flanking position. Against goblins. Guess how that fight ended.

Grand Lodge

I am curious, why a pony?

Grand Lodge

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Nuku wrote:
I am curious, why a pony?

Because not only does it provide flanking for a short time, it also becomes the primary target for the goblins.

Goblins, being goblins, have this thing about horses and dogs. They would either all turn and attack just the pony, or, have to make a morale check to not run away in panic from the pony.

Shadow Lodge

DrkMagusX wrote:


How can I prevent a build that is a cookie cutter build that looks like any other summoner?

This is, I think, a matter of fluff more then anything else. One character I play with thinks of his Eidolon his character's 'daughter' and ask questions like 'Is the sewer a proper play enviroment for a child' and encourages the eidolon to give 'hugs' to the people she meets.

My eidolon is my summoners barnyard pet, rather like lassie, only something resembling a veliocoraptor. I also did things like, when I bought the eagle knight vanity, my pet 'chicken' changed it's feathering to resemble the Andoran Flag, kind of like Guardian.

There are also eidolons I've seen that resemble, giant teddy bears, hindu goddesses, pornographic blow up dolls or whatever. Basically, put some thoughts into it, and you won't be cookie cutter.


My summoner presents himself as a devotee of Ragathiel. He vomits his eidolon out at the end of the summoning ritual and it is the embodiment of his sin.

Sovereign Court

Are summoners still legal for PFS play? One of my friends came up with a monk/summoner combination that was remarkably effective at low levels. His AC was 25 at third level IIRC.


Erosthenes wrote:
Are summoners still legal for PFS play? One of my friends came up with a monk/summoner combination that was remarkably effective at low levels. His AC was 25 at third level IIRC.

As long as he wasn't a synthesist summoner. The only recent "bans" were synthesists and master summoner archetypes.

Liberty's Edge

I'm playing a gnome summoner with a small eidolon.

It is winged, I can cast reduce person and I have a tiny creature with very high stealth scouting or doing other stuff. The Eidolon is female and his best friend.

The two are quite good at support in many ways. But they are not the cookie cutter combat Eidolon. Anya did take down the strongest opponent in the last fight - but this was more luck as the fighters in the group did the first 100 odd damage before she joined when it looked precarious and more for flanking purpose.


Do the Eidolons have their own summoner created personality?

Can they hold their own conversations with others?

I was just wondering if they are just the quiet body guard that can only communicate with the summoner or are they a individual with a personality but total devotion to the summoner?

Liberty's Edge

Off course I'm devoted to Yandu - but that still makes me my own personality. He dislikes it if I go into battle. He thinks its too dangerous for me. But I'm just helping out his friends.

And I've seen fighters that know less than I do - especially about the different planes.

Full stats in the profile - but Int 8 and common allow her to communicate - if she likes you of course

The Exchange

Does it fit PFS? yes as a summoner you can handle nearly every out of combat encounter, and in combat you get early entry to haste, and standard action summon monsters (assuming you don't just want a free high AC high damage melee beatstick).

First off, you're charisma based with 4x skills per level. take ease of faith and bully, and go to town on social skills.

Eidolon gets to make any 4 skills class skills, how about disable device, stealth, slight of hand, and anything else really.

for 1 Evolution point the eidolon can get a free +8 in any skill, I recommend perception and disable device, later on grab stealth.

For the eidolons feats/stats grab exotic weapon proficiency, and power attack, and presto you just saved a billion evolution points so you can spend them on increased armor and skilled, OH and get a fly speed at 5th level, cause you need that!

Now you're the fighter, the mage, the rogue, and the party face. You'll find it easy to fit into every party.

the drawbacks of playing a summoner pretty much go away in PFS.
1. Fewer total spells per day (than a wizard/cleric/druid)
-PFS adventures are between 3-5 encounters you have plenty of spells for that.
2. Fewer spells known
- this only REALLY hurts in adventures where there are multiple days to plan or do powerful things like planar binding. RARELY comes up in sanctioned PFS play however it is awesome.
3. Knowledge skills, you CAN have a pretty solid int and cha and be a decent knowledge monkey, but you probably still want the wizard/witch for this.
4. In home games enemies will have scryed you, and will pack spells like dismissal or magic cricle to screw with your summons, since it's your primary tactic, PFS doesn't do that.

The only real drawback to playing a summoner is that it's overpowered and kind of... table dominate-y. just because you CAN do all the roles doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Shadow Lodge

Haste as a 2nd level spell instead of a 3rd level spell.

Better than wizards/sorcerers there.


If I take a small size summoner and have a medium size eidolon could I effectively sit on his shoulder if I reduce size myself ? lol

I could totally act like a toy.


umm, yes, but you would take a negative to your ride skill, and would probably have to make checks frequently to stay on whenever the eidolon moves.


Benrislove wrote:


The only real drawback to playing a summoner is that it's overpowered and kind of... table dominate-y. just because you CAN do all the roles doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Just because a Summoner Can fill any of those rolls on any given day, doesn't mean he will! I am sure there are lots of people out there that play with another person who plays a summoner, and will tell you that they don't hog the lime light. That in fact the only time when you really really notice them, is when the rest of the party is in trouble, and the summoner pulls a M1-tank, I mean rabbit out of his hat.


You know, threads like this give me headaches from the wiplash.

I'm on my first longterm campaign, and still learning a lot of the ropes. I've decided (and my group thanks me) to stay away from Druid, Summoner, or heavy summon/polymorph wizard due to the sheer mass of monster manual reading involved. I'm still trying to get the spells down completely.

Usually on these boards, people talk a lot about how summoner (ninja, monk, etc) just can't compete with other builds. Seeing the 'summoners are totally overpowered!' sentiment in this thread gives me a headache.

Not that I mind- I LIKE the Summoner. I've wanted to play Yuna ever since I got my hands on FFX. It's just... ow.


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Mystically Inclined wrote:


Usually on these boards, people talk a lot about how summoner (ninja, monk, etc) just can't compete with other builds.

You must be reading different boards than I am as I have never seen such a sentiment even hinted at.

Lantern Lodge

@Cheapy
i have on quite a few occasions but that is particularity towards Synthesis.

@Mystically Inclined
out of personal experience i have found that casters are usually the worst classes to start out as due to heavy book work. Admittedly melee orientated characters require book work as well but at least not as much as selection and memorization of spells.


I love my summoner!

Unlike some (but not all) summoners, I spent my Evolutions on Skilled

Specifically, Disable Device, Perception, and Stealth. I also took my first feat as Skill Focus: Perception. I almost never break out my Eidolon, unless the party is missing a trap finder/scout.

My summons are used sparingly, and in general to provide flanking for the combat types in the party.

My thought on Summoner: You know you can do it all. You have the summons, you have the Eidolon, you have the spells. So, back off, and provide support as needed. Don't hog time or table. Just chill, and save the day as needed.


It's to the point that I refuse to play at a table with a player who's chosen to play a Summoner, because I play tanks, and every Summoner I've seen at a table makes the tanks superfluous. The question becomes "Why am I here?" and I find myself resenting the Summoner's player for making my character useless.


Huh. I've never seen duplicate roles as "useless." It's another person who is unique in their own right.

Here's how I see summoners:

A druid is a pet class where the druid is the powerhouse and the animal companion is the assistant.

A summoner is a pet class where the eidolon is the powerhouse and the summoner is the assistant.

Granted, there are variations, but that's the general case. Also, depending on the build, you can't really think of the summoner class as a spellcasting class; they're more a melee or skill class, depending on the eidolon build - with a little bit of spell casting back up.

Dark Archive

@bookrat, tell that to my summoner who casts spells like he's some wizard. He's pure battlefield control and wizardly utility. You are right in that the eidolon is a heavy, heavy class feature and the easiest and primary source of power for the summoner. They were built that way. But someone not paying much attention to the eidolon can fall back on the spellcasting and SLA and be a powerhouse at any level in a variety of ways.

I mean, my summoner is taking rings of wizardry and the rune that emulates pearls of power for spontaneous casters. My guy is a hardcore spellcaster, to the point I seriously debating making him a counterspeller....Summoners are true and often, heavy spellcasters. Just depends on playstyle. Buffers don't need to cast many spells.

@Mystically Inclined, you know, I don't know who would say the Summoner cannot compete with other classes. Maybe if you min max the best possible ways to do certain things like make a skill check, deal damage, etc, there are others who can do it better if they focus. But an eidolon can focus darn well if they want on anything the summoner tells them to. Want a VERY good skill monk? Pick the Eidolons 4 extra class skills like it tells you, put them in the proper skills, give it skill focus and perception in a given skill and take any feats that add to that skill and another (like alertness). You could have +16 on a particular skill (before stat modifiers or gear) at first level. Within 3 levels, you could have +20 or more to multiple skills. These numbers will be relevant at all levels of play. It may not be able to roll the skill check twice and take the best result like a rogue, but an eidolon can be an extremely good skill monkey.

Need a combat machine? Ok, so everybody and their mom can do combat well. But regardless of who can ACTUALLY put out the highest total possible damage in a single round, the Eidolon, if built properly, can always deal enough average damage to drop most things up to or beyond it's CR in a round of full attacking. You only need so much damage. Eidolons can also have exceptionally good AC, can acquire immunities to all elements, fly naturally or magically without gear, receive monster forms of detection, etc, etc. They're excellent in melee.

Need some magic to back you up? Eidolons can do magic. Not a lot, but they have access to spells you don't. Flashy, viscerally satisfying evocation spells. So superior to a familiar in many ways. I could go on.

The reality here is that Eidolons are like the Rogue class...you CAN make it do just about anything you want it to..and the options are EXTREMELY broad. And if you focus, it can do anything very, very well but becomes a one trick pony. If you mix things up and broaden it's horizons, you instantly lose out on how 'optimized' that pony was at its single trick. But either way, the eidolon does not have to be the best at anything to be very, very good.

-----

To the OP:
It's kinda long so it's in a spoiler.

Answers to the OP's questions:

What makes summoners a good choice? Well, if you want a versatile character, they certainly are that. If you wanted a familiar that could actually contribute without dying so easily, you get one. If you wanted to play a summoner you can. They're good at a lot of things to varying degrees and most of those degrees are all well above average. They have durability with light armor and 1d8 HP. They only require a reasonable amount of a useful, social stat which works double as a spellcasting stat INSTANTLY giving you two avenues in playing the character and two avenues of utility (social and casting). The same, single stat, also adds directly to power- the ability to summon what you called cannon fodder.

Are they good for just cannon fodder? Yes they are good for that AND then some. Is the eidolon cannon fodder? It can be..mine sure as heck isn't. He'll kill at least 2-3 guys, or control the battlefield AND substantially damage the boss so that the enemies HAVE to get rid of it. I'm talking from experience. If the eidolon is skulking around, disarming traps, pulling party members to safety, aiding another, etc, that's something that enemies would want to handle very quickly...that's not cannon fodder. Giving it knowledge skills as class skills, and giving it the +8 evolution seems like a GREAT way to get tons of information reliably without investing the skills on your own character.

And summoners can cast spells, too. Depending on your initial stat scores, even at low level you can cast quite a lot of spells. As an example, I had 19 charisma. At level 3, I could cast 4 spells per day, however at level 4, I gained +1 charisma and one additional first level spell per day as a result. I also gained 1 second level spell per day and a bonus one from high charisma for a total of 3. I nearly doubled my spells per day by gaining a single level.

At level 5, I will gain an extra first and second level spell and should be able to craft an item that provides +2 to my charisma granting me an additional +1 second level spell for a total of 3 more spells per day at that level. 10 spells a day at 5th level is MORE than enough for combat. Not as much as you need for utility, but certainly enough for combats....and you could take 0 combat spells and all utility and leave the combat to the summoned monsters and eidolon....sounds like summoners are rather useful to me beyond cannon fodder.

Mistakes? Hmm. Not re-reading the eidolons evolutions enough. I had to read the evolutions for more than a few weeks before I realized that I could not take Reach more than once. I rebuilt my eidolon with the newly freed up points and changed several feats to reflect the fact I could only have reach with one attack...

Planning, planning, planning. I think many people don't plan summoners enough, thinking they are simple and can just be jumped into like a fighter....good luck. You're making two characters, two sets of feats, skills, abilities, and can summon monsters which all have their own feats, skills abilities....plan ahead, learn the class, get a theme and figure out how to make the summoner fit that theme and do it well.

Prevent going cookie cutter? Stop reading the forums. :-P But seriously, think from a thematic point of view, get your character idea..then work on optimizing what you want from that idea...and in the case of the summoner...BE SPECIFIC. A general idea like 'I want him to be a dark and brooding guy, with a pet that kills really well' will result in cookie cutter. Saying, 'I want a guy cursed by his powers and who has following him a beast that always lurks in the shadows, watching his every move..'

That opens up doors, suggesting it gets the shadowy form evolution, the eidolon is not his friend but is part of his curse, the summoner might take feats, items and spells that reflect fear or defiance to this character plot. I mean, think outside of the box. My Eidolon is a Cerberus. How common is that?

You can multiclass the summoner. Depending on how much you like or care about your eidolon, depends on if it is worth it. Master Summoner can multiclass better than the regular summoner since the eidolon is already weakened for the archetype, missing some levels in it won't really hurt since the eidolon being at substantially reduced progression is only going to get but so good anyway. If you NEED it's features, don't multiclass. The same is true with spells. Summoners get JUST ENOUGH spells per day that they can function with magic well enough. But they also get just a small enough number that if you wanted to focus on something else you could. The catch is that most people play a summoner for the ability to use the eidolon (that's the point of the entire class) followed by the ability to, you know, summon stuff. Summoners can cast spells and also are decent in combat. When you multiclass out of the standard summoner, you instantly reduce the power of the summonable monsters, the spellcasting power and the eidolon power because they all stop progressing unless you take a prc that furthers your spellcasting progression. This leaves you with only progressing the summoners combat ability easily by taking classes like fighter or whatnot. In general, you are losing 3 major class features for slight progression in one medium class feature. It's generally not worth it, though 1-2 levels is often deemed somewhat acceptable. Still, there are exceptions. You could take summoner for just enough levels to get the amount and types of summons you want, some specific features on your eidolon and then multiclass into say, fighter, and start making yourself a combat machine with a reasonable sidekick combat machine. And just use your spells to try and compensate for the eidolon never progressing while you do.

Hope my long post clarified things for you.


John-Andre wrote:
It's to the point that I refuse to play at a table with a player who's chosen to play a Summoner, because I play tanks, and every Summoner I've seen at a table makes the tanks superfluous. The question becomes "Why am I here?" and I find myself resenting the Summoner's player for making my character useless.

I think the person making their character useless is the builder of said character. In PF there is no Tank component of the "holy trinity". There is only characters that can survive taking attacks while doing what they are meant to do (which is building a robust character that can work under pressure). If you have built your fighter to be a slow moving weak hitting ineffective waste of space (which is what I've found most PFS "tanks" are) you have nobody to blame but yourself.

Playing with a summoner whose eidolon is meant for combat is no different than playing with a party that has an additional melee character. If they build their character better than you it's easy to feel overshadowed. Its kind of like how my alchemist built to buff and go into combat felt overshadowed whenever the battle oracle/barbarian was at the same table. With the summoner what you should be resenting is the fact that the summoner has a decent melee component, while still being able to cast spells (which is the important part IMHO). The action economy of the summoner (and druid if we are being completely honest) is is the real unbalancing component.

With my PFS summoner I chose to self "nerf" by focusing on melee for both the summoner and the eidolon. My summoner has 18 strength and is proficient with a great-axe. First round is using a wand on the eidolon and moving towards combat (and eidolon pounce), second round is me and eidolon fighting (no different in actions than a combat druid). I hardly ever cast actual spells. And my eidolon despite having pounce doesn't often do more damage than the summoner (lot of attacks at a lowish damage/to hit bonus and small dice size vs 18 strength big dice damage). In terms of party balance my character fills the role of DPR (technically tankish, shield spell and mage armor with a decent dex means I don't get hit all that often, same with eidolon). The nice thing is I'm not even the most damaging character, the barbarian and paladins usually are more effective damage dealers, especially against high AC enemies. My PFS cleric at 3rd level broke the 40 damage threshold the other day (power attack, destructive smite, several buffs up, and a critical hit with a greatsword total was 2(2d6+15), would have been higher if I could have used my 2d6 channeled smite but thing was undead). My summoner at the same level could theoretically hit those numbers, but the to hit numbers are too low, and I don't have access to the same buff so in practice doesn't quite get there.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Avatar-1 wrote:

Haste as a 2nd level spell instead of a 3rd level spell.

Better than wizards/sorcerers there.

But you don't get those 2nd level spells until 4th level. I can't believe how much the cow people were having over one level difference.

Also keep in mind that unlike wizards, summoners have a very limited amount of spells known. There are a LOT of tempting spells to choose from at that level.

To the OP, no you're right, Summoners absolutely stink in PFS. Don't bother rolling one. Totally ignore the fact that I brought one to 8th level before I got distracted by another shiny.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mystically Inclined wrote:

You know, threads like this give me headaches from the wiplash.

I'm on my first longterm campaign, and still learning a lot of the ropes. I've decided (and my group thanks me) to stay away from Druid, Summoner, or heavy summon/polymorph wizard due to the sheer mass of monster manual reading involved. I'm still trying to get the spells down completely.

Usually on these boards, people talk a lot about how summoner (ninja, monk, etc) just can't compete with other builds. Seeing the 'summoners are totally overpowered!' sentiment in this thread gives me a headache.

Not that I mind- I LIKE the Summoner. I've wanted to play Yuna ever since I got my hands on FFX. It's just... ow.

If you have an Android or IOS smartphone or tablet, I highly recommend you download the Summoner app. It's for anyone who makes major use of the Summon Monster or Summon Nature's Ally spells.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

i second the thought that the only drawback to the summoner is that they can easily be overpowered. a well built eidolon can pretty well match even an archery fighter for damage at most levels and in most situations. add to that the fact that you still get your summoner's turn too and its easy to get a lot done (and to see why some people feel like they can be time hogs). a quadruped with limbs(arms) and pounce can take a martial or exotic 2-handed weapon proficiency with their first feat- that'll cover all your combat contribution needs. the summoner could focus on casting or skills pretty effectively- personally, i prefer casting (buffing others instead of/in addition to your eidolon can go a long way to make other players more accepting of your summoner). also- you're charisma based, so you can easily pick up eldritch heritage feats... the arcane bloodline will give you a familiar (at 3rd), evolved familiar (@5th) will make it tougher or more useful... improved familiar (@7th) will let you switch to one that can be an effective scout, and a UMD/wand monkey (you can even switch the evolution to Skilled[UMD]).

that's getting long... the short answer is:
- they're a good choice cause they can be good at a lot of things (and capable of doing a lot in a single round)
- if you think about your choices when building your eidolon, you don't call canon fodder, you call the cannon. if someone breaks it, you still have fodder to help finish the encounter (though even some of that fodder can be pretty useful, even out of combat with the long duration)
- the only mistake that can really gimp a summoner is forgetting to add HP/spells/etc when you level (though, like building a character- if you try to make your eidolon good at everything, he'll end up being mediocre... you're a lot better off picking one or two to focus on. and, remember you still have the summoner to be good at other stuff).
- summoners are like snowflakes, if you're paying attention each one is different- but a lot of people will just see snow.
- multiclassing is overrated, plus what class would you need to pick up when you (along with your eidolon/summoned creatures/familiar) are already good at everything?


DrkMagusX wrote:
What are the biggest mistakes a player makes when building his summoner.

Going against the flow.

Quote:
How can I prevent a build that is a cookie cutter build that looks like any other summoner?

By making a mistake.


Pinky brings up a good point. There's a huge difference between having a unique summoner mechanically and RP.

I'd shoot for one that is optimized mechanically but has a lot of RP flair. Some great examples have already been given in the thread.

And to everyone who responded to my post: thanks. I'm looking forward to the day that I play a summoner, and I'll definitely check out that app.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

I think the most original Summoner I've ever seen was a mounted Summoner whose Eidolon was both his mount, and a skill monkey. He passed over the improved damage and defense evolutions to instead focus on the Skilled evolution and boosted the Eidolon's INT and DEX. He used spells like Shield, Bull's Strength and Haste to augment his own abilities and picked up the Mounted Combat feats and proficiency with a lance. It was actually a surprisingly effective character. The eidolon mount was a highly mobile character, and generally he could augment even skills the Eidolon didn't have with a quick casting of Evolution Surge to give it the Skilled evolution in whatever skill was appropriate to the situation. Meanwhile, he himself was nearly as effective (occasionally moreso) in mounted combat as a full cavalier when his buffs were up, and could still fling battlefield control and buff spells as needed.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
DrkMagusX wrote:

Do the Eidolons have their own summoner created personality?

Can they hold their own conversations with others?

I was just wondering if they are just the quiet body guard that can only communicate with the summoner or are they a individual with a personality but total devotion to the summoner?

An eidolon has a starting intelligence of 7 and can speak and understand every language that its summoner can. They are not particularly bright in most cases, but they can definitely have their own distinct personalities. Note, however, that the near constant telepathic communication between summoner and eidolon limits how much they can disagree with each other and also guarantees that they would have the same alignment.


David Knott242

I was trying to figure out if they simple just talked monotone or carried some type of individuality. I have this imagine where I send the Eidolon to town and the tavern and he just walks all robotish. I can up his Int to where he is more able to hold a conversation. Does he start talking to people on his own? Is he like the Terminator lol.

O just had a thought of me shrunk hiding in the backpack telling him what to say lol never-mind the man behind the curtains.

The only reason I would try and multiclass is for character concept or story. I try not to minmax cause I want a good roleplay experience.


I think that's a role play call. If you want to play 7 Int as robotic, you're welcome to. I think you could also play 7 Int as the guy who is incredibly mouthy and thinks he's all that, but comes off as an idiot most of the time. Or you could go with the "dumb but good-hearted brute" image. 7 Int is still within the human norm- it's just the really Dim end of the spectrum.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There's a short story on the Paizo Web Fiction blog that should give you some insight. It features the main character from Death's Heretic who's interacting with an eidolon who's seeking aid for his summoner.

Spoiler:
(who turns out to be a total douchebag undeserving of his pets loyalty)


Mystically and Lazar: Something in line with Of Mice and Men's Lennie?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

lol- or if you want a really interesting RP experience, you could make a summoner with like a 7 or 8 Int and focus on getting the eidolon's Int as high as you can. then the eidolon would almost be your primary character and the summoner would be sort of just some sucker that it was using to allow itself access to the material world (and kind of bossing around for buffs and what not).

that would be a less combat effective eidolon (obviously) but it could start with 9 Int and the Skilled evolution (making it a half-decent skill monkey, with a decent caster for a pet); at 5th level its Int could/would go up to 10 and at 6th you could put it to 12...

Scarab Sages

I like the idea of a dragon eidolon with a sorcerer pet. I might move my summoner in that direction.


Might go for the halfling summoner whom pretends to be a human child with the Eidolon as a parent. Of course the halfling would be sneaky I guess.


LazarX wrote:
There's a short story on the Paizo Web Fiction blog that should give you some insight. It features the main character from Death's Heretic who's interacting with an eidolon who's seeking aid for his summoner. ** spoiler omitted **

A link to the story for those interested.

The Exchange

DrkMagusX wrote:

David Knott242

I was trying to figure out if they simple just talked monotone or carried some type of individuality. I have this imagine where I send the Eidolon to town and the tavern and he just walks all robotish. I can up his Int to where he is more able to hold a conversation. Does he start talking to people on his own? Is he like the Terminator lol.

O just had a thought of me shrunk hiding in the backpack telling him what to say lol never-mind the man behind the curtains.

The only reason I would try and multiclass is for character concept or story. I try not to minmax cause I want a good roleplay experience.

I once posted a while back why I think the Eidolon has such a low INT.

They aren't necessarily stupid, they're just not understanding of what is happening. Imagine a Medieval Knight in Edo, Japan. The doors are different, the food is different, the way they eat is different, the way they fight is different, the way they react to people walking in their house with shoes on is different, the way punish people is different, etc, etc. The knight isn't that stupid, he's just not used to how everything works.

In other news, I played a summoner/eidolon where the Eidolon is a spellcaster, with everything going into UMD(skilled, skill focus, stat bonus to CHA). At level 1, she could cast from a wand unles she rolled 4 or less. Perfect for CLW. I had to leave the campaign before I got to the higher levels, but I probably would have also given her a wand of Fireball, Bull Strength, Invisibility, and CMW. Worked great in the party, and everyone enjoyed her in the party.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I just remind my fellow players that my eidolon's humanoid looking head is covered with blond hair. With an intelligence of 8 (that stat got one of the two boosts that the eidolon has received so far), she comes across as a stereotypical ditz -- who just happens to tower over the rest of the party.


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Mystically Inclined wrote:
7 Int is still within the human norm- it's just the really Dim end of the spectrum.

Actually, with base Wisdom being 10, I see them being pretty much entirely as functional as most human(oid)s, while the low Int reflects the fact that they are outsiders - not very knowledgeable about common facts of the Material Plane and such, and not as quick to grasp how things work there. ("Wait, so gravity always works in the same direction here... and time just... moves at the same rate, always? This place is weird.")

Just a thought for they can function.


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Yeah, lots of funny RP there.

"Wait, you mean you people live by eating? That has to be the most backwards way to... to... that's disgusting!"

"No no, that's not disgusting. We actually enjoy it. It's what happens when we're done with the food that's disgusting."

"Why, what do you mean?"

....

"EW!!!"

"Yeah. And did anyone ever tell you how bipeds make more bipeds?"

(Cautious) "What do you mean?"

....

"THAT'S SICK!!!!!

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