There was also this PC he ran.
Wait, this is
Seriously, life'e too short, why are you still wasting breath on him? I understand wanting to get your gaming fix as much as the next guy, but it literally seems like every time you resolve one issue with him, he comes up with a new one.
I would prefer there be no money involved.
What about in-game gold?
This happens so often, that on my way to game one time, I bet one of my other fellow players driving me there 5 bucks he would say it. I won. He asked less than 5 minutes after we walked in the door.
Did you make this public knowledge? If not, secretly place bets with the other gamers, too. Then everyone will see what he's up to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8yQhXDquII&feature=youtube_gdata_playe r
Threaten calibration with the nozzle
He is not a powergamer.
Most of his PCs are either nearly suicidal, or avoid combat at all costs.
They usually go against any form of group cooperation, and often go to lengths to insult, or betray possibly helpful NPCs.
There was also this PC he ran.
You're still with this guy? Man... just throw him out already.
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@Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal: Well, I suppose I just have a lot of patience. Also, the sessions he misses due to his "government agent girlfriend from out of state" or a late running acting gig, are awesome.
@Experiment 626: Sort of, there was three of in the car there. It was sort of a one time thing, and I am not fond of betting.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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He is not a powergamer.
Most of his PCs are either nearly suicidal, or avoid combat at all costs.
They usually go against any form of group cooperation, and often go to lengths to insult, or betray possibly helpful NPCs.
There was also this PC he ran.
Wait, this is the actor that played the annoying PC that your character killed? The one that came back as a "guest-GM" and put some demands on you to get back at you?
WHY are you still playing with him?
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Whenever my group annoys me or does something dumb I just come here and read other peoples stories...I then appreciate what I have a lot more.
Thanks for that BBT :P
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Man I feel you, what a drag!
I say BOOT HIM!!
But also...
Have you considered PFS? Where I live, it is just beginning to pop up and I am so glad. My home group is as dysfunctional as I think a group can possibly be and still be a group. My one consolation is after a recent Con at the university, it looks like PFS will have a regular presence soon locally. Just in the nick of time!
I say that to say this. I've only played in an organized setting at the one Con recently. What do I like about it? You don't have to deal with this kind of BS! And that's really all it is, BS! It's not tolerated in organized play from my (very limited) experience and what I've heard from others with more time than me. Maybe, worst case scenario, you do that?? Play with, basically, strangers. I've noticed in a neutral environment, people tend to be a little more congenial. They don't make such an ass of themselves, and try to "fit in". This is by no means the rule of the land, but it's a fair assumption. I may have to resort to ONLY playing PFS scenarios if my fellow gamers can't grow the hell up!
Have you tried referring him to the GM for rule decisions. If/when the GM gets irritated he'll boot him, but whilst you're dealing with it he won't get involved.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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In that case, if you are not the GM and do not have the power to ask him to leave you have the option of sitting down with the GM and talking to him about the issue.
You also have the option to refuse to answer any future questions, from him and anyone in the group. The answer you could give that is polite and accurate is, "Why don't we look that up?" followed by, "Ah, see it is right there in the book. If you have a problem with that there are messageboards to help you."
i'm a little late to the party here, but +1 to GeraintElberion's idea. yes it will cost you real money, but only as much as it takes to buy sticky notes.
it'll provide proof of what you're saying, and without havign to be a jerk about it (because it IS good to keep rule references handy if someone at the table needs them).
if he complains that youre keeping tabs on him (pardon the pun), then do so for the rest of the group as well--different colored sticky notes to keep track of who's who, naturally. or maybe one of those red/blue/black switchable pens so you dont have to keep a set of sharpies on you.
you could pay for these when you start raking in all those $5 bills.
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"If you have a problem with that there are messageboards to help you."
Yeah, send him here with his alignment questions. He won't get out alive.
Wow, BBT. I have respect for that kind of patience.
Betting $5 is a tactic I like and one I've used against family members when they challenge me on scientific questions. if one of my players was this much of an ass, I'd do it there, too. However, if you're against it, I also like the idea of making a bet for character gold (make it a few hundred gold for low level characters, and a few thousand for higher level characters).
But if you really don't like that, here's what I do as an educator:
When one of my students asks a question, I usually answer with a question. I follow with a series of questions that leads them to the correct answer (with gentle hints along the way if they are struggling). If they come up with something wrong, I usually say, "that's a good thought, but what about..." until they come to the correct answer. In short, I get them to think it through, rather than just flat out answer.
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Just to iterate, I don't have the power to boot him.
Also, quitting is something I would only do when all other options are gone, or absolutely all the fun is gone.
Have you considered not sitting next to him? Possibly asking the person between you or the GM, "What do you think about that?" Just don't engage.
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Way I understand the situation.
- You join a new gaming group
- People (including the GM) ask you to help them better understand the rules and you provide them with correct answers that they appreciate
- This guy harasses you about rules clarifications before the game begins (so mostly just the 2 of you are involved in the discussion), dismisses your answers even though you are right and
denies any wrongdoing on his part, placing the blame for the awkwardness you feel squarely on your shoulders.
My analysis :
- First things first : YOU ARE RIGHT IN YOUR VIEW : he is the jerk here and he does it absolutely on purpose.
- He is jealous of the attention you are getting from the group.
- He is trying to destroy your self-esteem, so that you will end up weak-willed and easily manipulated.
- He is a born and ruthless manipulator who delights in confusing his victims so that they doubt their own feelings and convictions. He is likely a narcissistic pervert : a kind of RL psychological vampire. Also he believes quite honestly that he cannot be at fault in any way. The blame is always on other people.
- The ONLY thing you can do is stop having any interaction with him and get as far as you can as quickly as you can. He cannot be reasoned with, nor talked into correcting his behaviour, because he is in fact suffering from a form of mental illness. And he will not stop.
My advice :
If possible, get the group to get rid of him. He is only ruining things for everybody involved (except himself).
Tell other members of the group of the difficulties you are meeting with him and ask them what they think of it. You might be surprised that you are not the only one he plays mind-games with.
If nobody in the group feels the way you do, QUIT THE GROUP. We are not only talking about a hobby here. We are talking about your mental health.
I saw victims of this kind of perverts going deep into depression/nervous breakdown. I often saw these victims doubt their own sanity, starting to believe the lies their aggressor fed them.
And nowadays, when I feel that I am faced with this kind of person, I get away as fast as possible and try never to interact with them again.
In fact, I even left a new gaming group this way even though the GM was a very good friend of mine. Because I know from both experience and observation that the only result of interacting with this kind of people or trying to fight their influence is only a total loss of energy and a feeling of utter exhaustion and despair.
Yes, simply refusing to answer has crossed my mind.
Thing is, it seems to be some sort of passive-aggressive behavior beneath it all.
Many of the fellow players ask me questions about rules, or Golarion lore, and I am happy to help.
Refusing to help him would likely be responded with something like "it's just because I always prove him wrong", and likely be a running joke, with him saying "just don't prove him wrong, or he won't help you anymore" every time some one else asks me for help.
This is in spite of the fact that it would be entirely untrue.
Remember that you are right and he is wrong (in a great many ways in fact). Also that you fear that other people will believe him and not you and that he will destroy your relation to them is likely a sign that your self-esteem is already weakening.
Do not consider him as a normal sane person, because he is not !!!
Any approach that might work (and in fact make excellent sense) with a normal person will only end up in disaster for you. Because he will use interaction of any kind (even trying to defend yourself and confront him) as an opportunity to weaken your resolve and manipulate you.
The analogy to Vampires (which is often used for this kind of person) is frighteningly just. Watch the Dracula from Francis Coppola and you will likely see what I mean.
While writing this post, I realize that I might be overreacting. But really the risk that you are indeed a victim of this kind of pervert is just too frightening for me to ignore.
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I have hard time seeing it as "I am always right, and he is just jealous", for that seems conceited, which is a behavior I avidly avoid.
Also, I have hard time putting him in the role of "enemy" in my mind, as it entirely changes my interactions completely. I don't have many people I consider an enemy, but those I do, eventually know full well that I see them as such. For me, when the switch happens(which is exceptionally rare), it is, unfortunately, quite extreme.
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I have hard time seeing it as "I am always right, and he is just jealous", for that seems conceited, which is a behavior I avidly avoid.
Also, I have hard time putting him in the role of "enemy" in my mind, as it entirely changes my interactions completely. I don't have many people I consider an enemy, but those I do, eventually know full well that I see them as such. For me, when the switch happens(which is exceptionally rare), it is, unfortunately, quite extreme.
I understand both points.
However, you should always trust your feelings because they do not lie. They are the true reflection of what you live inside.
The greatest duty you have is to yourself. You have to protect yourself from harm, whether physical or psychological. Only when you are safe can you turn your attention outward.
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I suppose a final confrontation is my only option if ignoring him does not work.
If that does not work, I suppose I will be forced to leave.
That is sad, as not only am I going to miss the gaming group, I will have to take my books, dungeon tiles, miniatures, maps, face cards, and DM screen.
Also, I will no longer be there to provide Donuts and Craft Beers.
It hurts me to be forced to punish the other players due to the actions of one individual.
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However, you should always trust your feelings because they do not lie. They are the true reflection of what you live inside.
The greatest duty you have is to yourself. You have to protect yourself from harm, whether physical or psychological. Only when you are safe can you turn your attention outward.
Wholeheartedly agree regarding the duty to self.
I will point out that feelings certainly can lie, though. Having said that, feelings are never wrong. They're feelings. Nobody can ever tell you that you're not feeling them. The reasons for them might be flawed, but that doesn't absolve anyone of the fact that they exist.
And if you are feeling something negative, the best way to deal with it is to discuss it, as calmly as possible, with the people who are directly influencing those feelings.
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what the-
I thought I solved this already.
BBT dammit just think how many delicious donuts and craft beers can be obtained with this person's money, $5 at a time.
I totally agree with lamontius. And make sure he puts it on the table before you crack a book. Dont want him 'running a tab' on how wrong he is.
Pretty soon his hobby is gonna get too expensive and he'll have to find another way to spend his time.
Use the money to go to the art supply store and buy a plain white tshirt and some paint pens... Make the tshirt read
so and so thought
he knew what a rule was
and was full of crap
...... (leave enough space for a post it note you can change on the fly)
times.
This will help remind him how many times he's lost 5 bucks from being an [expletive deleted]
what the-I thought I solved this already.
BBT dammit just think how many delicious donuts and craft beers can be obtained with this person's money, $5 at a time.
Which issue are referring to?
Also, he is working on an Actor's budget, so I doubt he would bet me anything.
Actor's budget? Acting like what? a widdo baby?
Sorry. what I meant to say was 'even better! if he cant afford the bet then he just needs to suck it up and crack the book on his own.'
Maybe negotiate away his percentage of the party treasure.
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Make him jump on the correct answer as if it was his own conclusion is a great idea. In my case i would be straight up blunt and saying flat up that if he don`t like my answers, don`t ask anymore. Every time he would ask something i would point out that he will disagree with the answer and would not answer it, unless he promised that would not arguee and if he truly feels that i`m wrong, check the rulebook by himself.
LOL, since he does not believe you, tell him, Ask me no questions and I will tell you no lies.
hrrrgggght you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them pluck $5 bills from the wallet of a terrible person
(sorry BBT I am not calling you a horse and I am sure it is craft beer not water)
...unless...unless you're really a horse
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I suppose a final confrontation is my only option if ignoring him does not work.
If that does not work, I suppose I will be forced to leave.
That is sad, as not only am I going to miss the gaming group, I will have to take my books, dungeon tiles, miniatures, maps, face cards, and DM screen.
Also, I will no longer be there to provide Donuts and Craft Beers.
It hurts me to be forced to punish the other players due to the actions of one individual.
You will not be punishing them. You will be saving yourself.
If you can do it while keeping the good relations you have with these other people, good for you. If not, still good for you.
I am also in agreement with Thalandar. Your relations with the other players and GMs might be surprisingly strong. Strong enough to kick him out of there.
I still believe that it is a "him or you" matter though.
I hope for the best. Keep us informed
I really hope this doesn't sound condescending or insulting or anything, but here goes nothing:
Have you tried not taking it so personally?
What I mean by this is that he asks a rules question, and you know the answer. Even if you don't, it's in the book. You are not the arbitrator or creator of the rules. You just have ranks in Knowledge: Pathfinder Rules.
Do we blame or criticize the character for failing a knowledge check? Do we try to argue when the character succeeds and the information is given straight from the book?
I mean, getting the info straight from the book is exactly what you are doing. If he doesn't like it, that means his problem is with the good folk at Paizo, not with you.
Next time he says, "That's not the way it worked in 3.5," you could respond with, "well, Paizo and WoTC are different companies. If you don't like it, contact Paizo or bring up the topic to the GM to see if we can houserule it. But this is the way Paizo and Pathfinder ruled it." When he responds with, "Whatever," don't take it as a personal slight, but rather as a slight against Paizo.
From there, don't even bother confronting him about it. If this works, it simply won't bother you anymore.
I don't think he's taking it personaly. He's frustrated at the complete waste of time this is. I gamed with a guy like that once, and it only took twice to get me to the point where I was telling said person to look it up himself. It may have seemed rude, but when asked I merely said telling him to look it up himself is quicker than me looking it up for him, finding the correct answer, and then arguing about it for 5 minutes. I can keep looking stuff up for him if you'd all like, if you want to continue wasting game time.
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@bookrat: I have tried that. In fact, I initially considered that was the issue. I needed to be sure this was not me misinterpreting his actions.
To be sure, I carefully viewed his interactions with others, looking for similarities to his behavior towards me. There was nothing resembling the seemingly passive-aggressive behavior that he directed towards me.
Truly, I wished it to be a misunderstanding. I considered that his behavior was just part of his personality, and did it to all. Unfortunately, evidence pointed towards something else.
I was quite disappointed.
The player in question has a long history of acting...
less than gentlemanly,
in regards to BBT.
Granted, we have nothing but BBT's previous posts to go from, but barring him flat out lying or at the very least having a long history of over-dramatizing their interactions, , they guy in question would, for me at least, kill the group for me. But I've quit groups for much less than the amount of grief that this guy has caused.
Ok, maybe not much less, but certainly noticeably less.