I need you to answer a question, so I can dismiss it, or disagree


Gamer Life General Discussion

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Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Situation:
In two of my current games, I have a fellow player, who consistently asks me questions about rules, and then immediately after I answer, he says "I think you are wrong" or the like. Never agreeing with me, not even once.

We then look it up, I am right, and he responds either " ...whatever", "well that's stupid it should work this way..." or "well in 3.5 it was...".

This happens so often, that on my way to game one time, I bet one of my other fellow players driving me there 5 bucks he would say it. I won. He asked less than 5 minutes after we walked in the door.

Now, to fair, I will sometimes say "I am not sure" and then we look it up.

I even confronted him, and the response was excessive scoffing, and then dismissal, and accusations of overreaction.

So, how do I get the point across that I am trying to help, but tired of whatever the hell he is trying to do?


Simple.

"Don't ask me questions if you don't like my answers."


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It's like he views you as an authority, but is too proud or contrary to accept your answers, despite your track record. It's kind of you to continually humour his requests, despite his scoffing and disagreeing, even with evidence to the contrary. Next time he asks, consider just giving him the rulebook and letting him look it up for himself. If he bemoans your lack of assistance, remind him that the answers are in black and white for him, just as they were for you, you just took the time to learn them. His turn now!


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Bet HIM $5 on the outcome of each answer and who was right.


I like Lamontius' idea. +1

Silver Crusade

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Sounds like attention seeking behaviour and you are giving him attention. Rinse and repeat.


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Man you call it what you want Master of Stools I call it sitting on a goldmine full of $5 bills


Tape record your next couple sessions!

Also, I like the idea of giving him the option to look it up himself, but tell him if it takes more than 2 minutes you will continue and skip him until he's ready. Make it a houserule that any rule question about your character actions that take you more than 2 minutes to look up the answer slows down the game and will result in skipped turns.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Lamontius wrote:


Bet HIM $5 on the outcome of each answer and who was right.

Charge him five dollars regardless of the answer. He might be annoying h but perhaps he can fund your pizza orders ;-)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Yes, simply refusing to answer has crossed my mind.

Thing is, it seems to be some sort of passive-aggressive behavior beneath it all.

Many of the fellow players ask me questions about rules, or Golarion lore, and I am happy to help.

Refusing to help him would likely be responded with something like "it's just because I always prove him wrong", and likely be a running joke, with him saying "just don't prove him wrong, or he won't help you anymore" every time some one else asks me for help.

This is in spite of the fact that it would be entirely untrue.


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At which point you respond with "Shut your whore mouth."

Make your displeasure known, in no uncertain terms.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I suspect an angry response might be something he wants.

It would give him something to point to, and note how unstable, and over-sensitive I am.


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If his attitude genuinely bothers you, that is, it detracts from your enjoyment of the game, let him know so, in a calm voice. Do it in private or public at your discretion based on what you know of his nature. Personally, I do that sort of thing at the table; its a social group game, issues within it need to be handled socially and as a group.

Personally, I wouldn't put up with that for long, and by long, I mean more than two sessions. Life is too short to take crap from people who are asking for your help in the same sentence. That and I have dealt with enough passive-aggressive nonsense of that sort that I have little patience for it now.

"Listen, I appreciate you ask me for rule clarifications. It makes me feel good that you think I'm the go-to guy for that. But your reactions most of the time aren't cool. Yeah, were playing Pathfinder. Yeah, it evolved from 3.5. But it isn't 3.5, some things changed. And yeah, just like 3.5, Pathfinder has some weird rules that might not make sense. But constantly being negative about it makes me feel like you don't want to play, and its hard to enjoy myself if I think the guy next to me isn't. I'm cool with talking about the weird rules and the changes and such after game, but during game, I'd like it if we can just check the rules, get the answer, and keep going with the game."

There is no excuse for that sort of behavior beyond a genuine diagnosed social disorder. The long and short of it is: nobody has the right to behave in a manner at the table that diminishes the fun of the others. He could be smoking a pack of ciggarettes, farting up a tornado of flatulence, rolling dice loudly when its not his turn, talking on a cell phone constantly, or playing games on his laptop, instead of being passive-aggressive to you about the rules. While varied in severity, none of that would be deemed appropriate at most tables, so why should this sort of enjoyment-diminishing behavior be? Be calm, but firm, and ask him to stop.


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So we've determined

A.) This guy's an a!*+!!*.

and

B.) He's apparently good buddies with everybody but you (since they'd believe the b!+$*$~# you say he's planning on spoonfeeding them).

so

C.) Why do you play with these people?


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Man BBT you could just be all rolling in $5 bills all straight Indecent Proposal style just like making it rain erry day erry day all day erry day but nooooooooooo you have to be all making sense


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Or even D.) Why do you care what this one douchenozzle thinks about you?


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I was thinking this would be a meta thread.

Still is, kind of. Just more subtle.


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I had a guy that did similar things in our 3.5 days. He always used to ask questions about how certain rules worked, then when he didn't like the answer he would say one of two things. Either that isn't the way it used to work in 2nd ed, or that isn't the way it works in real life. It was frustrating and annoying beyond belief.

It turns out the guy was jealous of how much the other players looked up to me because of my 30 years of playing the game, so he was trying to proove something. Unfortunately, all of his passive agressive behavior got him was not being invited to games anymore.


Maybe ask the other party members if they would get bored if you answer his question. Is an idea.

The Exchange

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I have 4 solutions to your problem, use whatever one you like.

1- challenge him to a dance off and school him with your funky-fly moves.

2- tear out his throat. A good ol' flying eagle claw to the talkie box and he will quickly bleed out, or if he survives he'll never speak again.

3- smack the crap out of your parents for raising you to be a doormat that others feel they can abuse with no repercussions then hide in your room until the bad-wrong feelings go away.

4- answer in the most over-the-top, excessively convoluted fake rule that you can possibly make up. Something with "then you toss a d20 into the air, trying to bounce it off of your forehead and onto the table" or other such crap should do nicely. he will stop asking soon. Sarcasm is your friend (mine too!).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

@The Black Bard: Actually, I have already said almost exactly what you suggested to him, in the manner you suggested. I even asked if there was something I was doing, or had done, that offended him. His answer was, more or less, "No, we are fine, I have no idea what you are talking about, I think you are misremembering things and twisting things around. Well, whatever, I can't help it if you are what you are."

@Rynjin: He is good buddies with just about everyone else, and I really like playing with everyone else. I suppose I used to care what he thinks, but now just don't want him to ruin my fun, and my developing relationship with this new(er) gaming group.


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Well.

E.) Challenge him to a man-to-man 1 on 1 bareknuckle boxing match.

Liberty's Edge

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When he asks a question, ask him back, "Well, how do you think rule X should work?". If his answer is the same as how you would answer, say "That sounds about right." If his answer is different, say "Hmmm, maybe you should look that one up."

If he doesn't understand (or care) that his behavior gets under your skin, then don't set yourself up for it. If he asks why you are 'being this way', just say that it's time he became more familiar with the rules, and the best way is to challenge him. If he balks at it, just tell him he's being oversensitive. ;)

Silver Crusade

BBT: what happened with that guy who used to break your figs and fall asleep etc?

Is this the same guy, or do you just attract this type?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I suppose the two worst aspects of it all, is that I cannot figure out what exactly he has against me. Even straight up asking him directly has accomplished nothing, and he denies any of the incidents happened as I described, or that they did not happen at all.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

He's Gaslighting you. Not much point in calling him on it, I suspect. My recommendation honestly is pay only as much attention to him as is necessary to continue playing.
Personally, I wouldn't play in the same group with someone like that, but if you are enjoying the rest of the group, it's your call.


He's obviously just That Guy. You know the one. Or if you don't, you are the one.

That or maybe you went to middle school together and one day you threw a full bottle of Gatorade at his girlfriend because she kept spraying perfume all over you.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

BBT: what happened with that guy who used to break your figs and fall asleep etc?

Is this the same guy, or do you just attract this type?

Different guy.

He left. Everyone got sick of him. It was handled pretty quickly actually.

Also, he was just someones brother that tagged along. Not a mutual long time friend of many.

We all joke about that from time to time.


wait is this turning into some kind of Vanilla Sky thing

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

Be polite and let him know that if he insists on asking questions only to give the response that he is giving you are going to have to ask him to stop asking questions. If he pushes it, tell him you will ask him to leave the group. If he pushes it further, ask him to leave the group.

I suggest doing this privately.

Another possible solution is to talk to the either group without him about how they feel about his behavior and treatment of your answers. Find out if they have any solutions. Also find out if they would support you asking him to stop the behavior, or even asking him to leave the group. Once you have done that, have the entire group talk to him about the problem. Think of it as a gamer intervention.


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I have a houserule, in times of a rules question, I will make a call, if the player is unahppy with that call, they have 1 minute to find evidence that I am wrong, otherwise we go with it for the evening and look it up later.

I use a facebook group to communicate with my PCs, so I always post rules questions in there when they come up, with links to answers, explanations, etc.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

The questioning does not occur during gaming, mostly.

Mostly prior to, during break, and when we are wrapping up.


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Next time he does it, grab a spork, jump up on the table and scream " I swear on the kender spoon of turning, I will end you!"

This may not get the best results....but it will get A result.


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Man do you guys just hate like having crisp $5 bills or what

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

blackbloodtroll wrote:

The questioning does not occur during gaming, mostly.

Mostly prior to, during break, and when we are wrapping up.

Well, a change needs to happen. I would still talk to the group at least.

While I have only banned one person from gaming with me, a threat of doing so has been given to a few of the most disruptive people I have played with. Their behavior improved very quickly.

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

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Lamontius wrote:


Man do you guys just hate like having crisp $5 bills or what

I like crisp $20s much more.


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Lamontius wrote:
Man you call it what you want Master of Stools I call it sitting on a goldmine full of $5 bills

The fact that your icon kinda looks like the Monopoly guy makes your statement all the more hilarious.


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That's cool yeah I would have also have accepted Col. Sanders or the terrible speech guy from the matrix ergo vis a vis concordantly

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

I'm not a psychoanalyst or anything, but this dude's bwhavior stems from a competitive desire for attention. He either wants to create conflict, or he thinks he's the shizzle (which invariably leads to humiliation) and can't stop being that guy at the who knows everything. I'd buy him a drink, ask him what he needs out of gaming, and promise to help him find it. If he's a decent guy acting like a dill weed, you'll be helping him work out his issues. If he's really just a dill weed, it'll become clear and he's not worth future effort.


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blackbloodtroll wrote:

The questioning does not occur during gaming, mostly.

Mostly prior to, during break, and when we are wrapping up.

Ask him why he can't find the answer in the book himself?

Or keep track of every time he asks you a question and who is right or wrong. A simple tally of the total questions and who is right and wrong on a 3 x 5 card. After your right enough times and he questions you again just pull out the card in front of everyone and show them the actual #'s. It may shut him up or he may stop asking.

Or tell him to learn the damn rules properly.


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Yes BBT you can buy him a drink with his own $5 bill


I would suggest you create a paper trail of his behavior (either recordings of the conversations, one of the other players witnessing it, asking him to submit questions via email/facebook). After several instances of doing this you can ask him again and when he claims you are twisting things show him the evidence.


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I was with Lamontius until he suggested actually paying for the drink instead of slipping out and leaving the other guy with the check.


It reads as though you are a player and not the GM. It seems to be a strange dynamic that you are being asked rules queries rather than the GM, but understandable in some situations. If it's bothering you deflect the query to the GM. If/when the GM gets fed up with it they will eject him from the group.

Sovereign Court

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If he is denying his behaviour...

1. Get some sticky notes (you can get little one designed to use a page-savers).
2. Wait for him to challenge a ruling.
3a. Look up the ruling and then save the page with a sticky.
3b. Make a note of the important page no. on the inside cover of the book (this in case sticky notes fall out or a re tampered with)
4. Explain that you're saving it because 'it's good to be able to reference rules we've had confusion with'.
5. Keep the book on the table during play.

What does this achieve?

  • He can't pretend you are getting mixed-up about his rules fussing.
  • Once you have a few, you have a little symbol on the table gently reminding the whole group about his nagging pedantry.
  • Once you have 5 or 6 you can start sighing and saying 'must we go through all of this again' and he can't deny it.

---

One other thing.

You don't need to do the legwork. Don't play up to him, just make it a chore to bother you.

If he questions a rule just say: "I think so, why don't you look it up?" and hand him the book. Then get on with something else (get a drink, re-read part of your adventure notes, prepare minis, ask another player about that movie they watched, etc.)


Sounds like He's a power gamer looking for an edge. And then he's disappointed that his planed rules exploit doesn't cut the mustard, nor his visions of badassery.


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I had a guy who liked to turn things into "running gags". He especially favored making remarks about how good people aren't allowed to kill their enemies, after an alignment dispute we had over killing a helpless rogue who surrendered to them.

"But GM, he's a rogue, so it doesn't matter that he's tied up, he's not really helpless! Let me cut his throat already!"

Good times. Not really, that guy was a pain. I favor the passive approach, as fun as it would probably be to scam/punch/rob him. Don't voice an opinion. If you think he's wrong, tell him he might want to look it up.

Alternatively, record every dispute you have, put it all on a playlist, and stop helping him. If he tries to say he proved you wrong, start playing the montage as 'background music'. ;D

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

He is not a powergamer.

Most of his PCs are either nearly suicidal, or avoid combat at all costs.

They usually go against any form of group cooperation, and often go to lengths to insult, or betray possibly helpful NPCs.

There was also this PC he ran.


I AM a bit curious as to why BBT ignored the best idea. People stfu when it costs them money every time they're wrong.

Oh, I get it! The title was literal!

Okay not trolling. Just trying for a laugh. (Plus it was a great idea that does seem to have been ignored despite Lamo's rereferencing it.)

If you can't talk to the guy, call the others up seperately and tell them of your frustrations and ask if they mind if you dump him.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sticky situation. I like many of the ideas presented (especially charging him for services rendered).

It seems to me that what's most annoying is his dismissive responses to your factual and accurate answers (of course, I have no idea how you phrase those answers in light of his behavior, but that really doesn't matter).

I'm not sure I have any constructive advice, but a few options that spring to mind are extensions of some things already presented.

1) House rule! Every rule question that BBT answers correctly, everyone chucks a dollar in a pot. BBT gets the pot at the end of the night. (This one treats everyone fairly.)

2) Peer pressure! Every time "anyone" belittles or dismisses a correct ruling by anyone, all of the other players have to pay a dollar into a pot. The table as a whole decide who gets the pot at the end of the night. (This one pretends to assume that there is no one person who is worse than the others. If one person is worse than the others, then sooner or later, everyone else will call them on it, too.)

3) Pay the piper! If he asks a rule question and the table unanimously agrees that he has not belittled or dismissed the response, you pay him a dollar. If he dismissed or belittled the response, he pays you a dollar. If, during the previous session you paid him more than he paid you, the rule is suspended for the following session. (This one pushes for change.)

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