|
Life's gotten easier for the shapeshifting world who do not have wildshape. A ring of eloquence lets you speak in animal form, polymorphic pouch lets you access your spell components.
Unfortunately there's still one thing up in the air. Other then alter self and monstrous physique, what counts as a hand for the purpose of somantic components for spellcasting?
If you awakened an animal that took ranger levels, does that mean because that animal has no hands, it can never cast?
Heck, even quasits with claws can cast spells.
|
|
Raise dead on this thread.
For Beast Shape III, a Voonith is probably one of the best magical beast forms there is for an attacker. Bite and 4 claws, pounce, and reach on the bite, plus aquatic and a swim speed. I have used it before and it is NUTS.
If you have 10 ft reach on bite, pounce sucks because your charge ends at the closest point you can make a melee attack and at 10 ft away it ends, so you make only your bite attack. The rest are not in range.
|
If anyone's got any feedback on this it'd be very much appreciated — anything I've missed, any mistakes, and any suggestions for improving it. I've a few thoughts on that myself, which I've stuck at the end of the document, but I'd also appreciate other people's input.Love the document. Just recently acquired the ability to create the Monstrous Physique extract as an investigator, so being able to read your document that had already broken down relevant options and how they applied was a bonus. I'm curious...
How would Monstrous Physique combine with Enlarge Person in your opinion? Example: Gargoyle becomes large with all the listed changes that Enlarge Person would entail in addition to the Gargoyle changes? Just curious. Would love to see an Enlarged Large form or Enlarged Huge form. Or even better, an Enlarged, Hasted, Displaced Gargoyle. Shenanigans.
Thanks!
Sadly, it doesn't work at all.
In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
|
If anyone's got any feedback on this it'd be very much appreciated — anything I've missed, any mistakes, and any suggestions for improving it. I've a few thoughts on that myself, which I've stuck at the end of the document, but I'd also appreciate other people's input.Love the document. Just recently acquired the ability to create the Monstrous Physique extract as an investigator, so being able to read your document that had already broken down relevant options and how they applied was a bonus. I'm curious...
How would Monstrous Physique combine with Enlarge Person in your opinion? Example: Gargoyle becomes large with all the listed changes that Enlarge Person would entail in addition to the Gargoyle changes? Just curious. Would love to see an Enlarged Large form or Enlarged Huge form. Or even better, an Enlarged, Hasted, Displaced Gargoyle. Shenanigans.
Thanks!
Sadly, it doesn't work at all.
In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
Ah, you are correct. Sad face.
I see in this guide, it says that armor and weapons resize with Monstrous Physique and Giant Form. Can't find any reference to this for those spells. Am I missing an update somewhere, and if so can someone point me to it?
Multiple skim reads for the lose :(
Thanks Bob!
If anyone's got any feedback on this it'd be very much appreciated — anything I've missed, any mistakes, and any suggestions for improving it. I've a few thoughts on that myself, which I've stuck at the end of the document, but I'd also appreciate other people's input.
I love the guide. just wondering are you planing on updating it with any of newer polymorph spells like Form of the Alien Dragon &/or the mythic stuff for shapeshifter's ?
Archmage:
Shapeshifting Mastery (Ex)add 1/2 teir to CL for polymorph effects. & uses Cl as BAB while polymorphed!(I'm not sure if that means your BAB is effectively your CL+1/2 mythic tier for BAB)
Shifting Mastery (Su) spend 1/minute of duration to switch forms as standard action. Take on form of SPECIFIC individuals if you want Per limitations of spell used, animals for animal shape ect.
Many Forms(Su) Alter Self at will, mythic point to do polymorph effects
Hierophant:
Mythic Domain (Su)For the Oracles in the house with any of your liste Mysteries.
Mythic Wild Shape (Su)pick a thing you wildshape into, it doesn't count against your daily uses
Pack Wildshape (Su) your allies can wild shape with you. (^Combo much?^)
Plant Bringer (Su)you like being a plant? it just got better!
Mythic Feats: powerful shape gets better!
Hmm, hadn't spotted those; my games haven't done much with Occult Adventures, and nothing with Mythic. "You're bad enough already!" the GM said.
Will give it a go when I have time though.
Also, I've given up on the idea that d20pfsrd / the Pathfinder community website are going to do a spreadsheet of the bestiary 5 monsters, but I've spotted a list of links to them all on the Paizo site, so when I've the time I'll work out which fit where, and if they're better than what already exists.
There will be updates! Eventually…
Form the Alien Dragon provides methods to become completely immune to mind-affecting, completely immune to psychic magic, and/or gain See in Darkness, all of which can be situationally useful. Also a (low dice) Force damage breath weapon.
Looking forward to seeing the new entries from Bestiary 6.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Didn't really seem to be much for spells other than Monstrous Physique. A few new animals that might be okay (dinos and megafauna mostly), but the magical beasts aren't as good as already released creatures.viabel for use with the spell.
Deathsnatcher in B6 looks to be the new go-to for monstrous physique I and II. 6 attacks, big damage dice, flight and pounce (for MPII) are clear winners. Other than lack of dark vision, is there anything I'm missing?
Well, it's poison is supernatural, so some more anal GM's might say you don't get it.
In the same book, while lacking any other abilites that MP would give you, the Eurayle (serpentine bottom medusa) is really good for a melee focused character with a nice weapon, as it provides 6 natural attacks to use with your weapon (if only poison came online earlier).RAW you can use MPII to turn into Yig, a Large sized monstrous humanoid Great Old One. The natural attacks are ridiculously good; a 6d10 bite with poison (extraordinary, 1d6 con drain and nauseated), 2 4d8 claws with rend, a 4d10 tail slap with grab and 20 ft reach, and constrict.
It would take some work to convince a GM to let you actually turn into a Great Old One, but if you can justify it IC, or, I don't know play a metamorph alchemist and get permission out of pity, then it's the best Large form in terms of sheer killing power.
I don't really see how it would be broken. It's not going to give you anything not explicitly mentioned under the spell's description.
EDIT: Looking more closely, this seems to be what you get out of monstrous physique IV (a 6th-level spell):
- Large size and all that, that entails
- +4 size bonus to your Strength
- –2 penalty to your Dexterity
- +4 natural armor bonus
- 10-foot reach (20-feet reach with tails slap)
- bite (6d10 + Str mod plus poison), 2 claws (4d8 + Str mod plus rend), tail slap (4d10 + Str mod plus grab)
- climb 60 feet
- swim 60 feet
- darkvision 60 feet
- low-light vision
- scent
- constrict (4d10 + 1.5 Str mod)
- grab (tail slap)
- poison (Bite-injury; save as spell; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d6 Con drain + nauseated for 1 round; cure 3 consecutive saves)
- poison resistance (+8 saves vs. poison)
- rend (2 claws, 4d8 + 1.5 Str mod)
- resist acid 20, cold 20, fire 20
Before I let someone change into this in my games, I would (at a minimum) require a DC 38 knowledge (nature) check to even know who or what Yig is. I also wouldn't let a piece of a singular unique being somehow be in every spell component pouch, regardless of what the rules say.
Furthermore, I would rule that anyone attempting to mimic the might and ferocity of a great old one (or similar unique demigod) in this way (such as a sorcerer with eschew materials and a high knowledge check, for example) would immediately draw the attention of said being in some manner.
Being a material component without a cost, your 5 gp spell component pouch contains the material.
*snurk*
You can't polymorph into a unique creature last I heard. Yig is unique I believe.
You can't polymorph into a unique creature last I heard. Yig is unique I believe.
The word "unique" doesn't even appear under the polymorph rules.
I did, however, find this:
That rule should have the same effect at most tables, I'd imagine. Hard to argue you are turning into a generic member of Yig. :P
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
Ravingdork did find a cool line. I thought all of the bestiary entries are for "avatars" of gods and not the actual god? So there could be multiple Yig avatars walking around.
I couldn't find specific language agreeing with my memory. Does anyone have a link or passage talking about this concept?
You can't polymorph into a unique creature last I heard. Yig is unique I believe.The word "unique" doesn't even appear under the polymorph rules.
I did, however, find this:
That rule should have the same effect at most tables, I'd imagine. Hard to argue you are turning into a generic member of Yig. :P
That's the one. Misremembered the wording that's all. I believe it's come up before when people have wanted to turn into Grendel.
Is the green man any good for plant shape?
Ooo that's exciting been looking for a good form for a Leshy warden for a while. Realising the gallows tree was third party was a bumber.
What do green men bring to the table?
Ooo that's exciting been looking for a good form for a Leshy warden for a while. Realising the gallows tree was third party was a bumber.
What do green men bring to the table?
PLANT SHAPE I
- speed 40 ft.
- +2 size bonus to your Strength, a +2 enhancement bonus to your Constitution, and a +2 natural armor bonus
- 2 slams (1d8) and 6 vines (2d6); vines are primary attacks that have 30 foot reach, grab, and constrict
- darkvision 60 ft. and low-light vision
PLANT SHAPE II
- resist electricity 20
PLANT SHAPE III
- DR 15/epic and slashing
- regeneration 5 (deific or mythic)
Green men are a race of incredibly powerful nature guardians and thus are a valid polymorph shape.
oooo 2 slams 6 vines!
Thats so much less Rubbish than the other plant forms xD
and those Plant Shape III boost are nice too xD
oooo my Leshy Warden just got sooo much cooler.
Since green men are generally humanoid in form, have a pair of hands, and can speak languages, it doesn't necessarily interfere with spellcasting either. :D
ooo Ash the Vanara Leshy Warden is going to be a walking talking tree man a lot more often, fits his roots and vines themed casting too :P
ooo I need to get book 6 now .-.
Ravingdork did find a cool line. I thought all of the bestiary entries are for "avatars" of gods and not the actual god? So there could be multiple Yig avatars walking around.
I couldn't find specific language agreeing with my memory. Does anyone have a link or passage talking about this concept?
If I remember correctly, the statted "gods" are usually demigods, demonlords, empyreal lords and other "not full gods"-gods that can still be killed by mortal effort.
I do vaguely remember one explicit avatar (of an elder god,I think?), thought, and its statblock actually included an "If it dies, the god can reform it instantly, but it usually reforms somewhere distant and might or might not care". But said avatar still only existed in one place at a time.
Some maybe silly questions here - glad if someone could give an good opinion on this:
Lets say I have a character like a monk with an AC-Bonus from Wisdom and a scaling Damage from levels (or the flurry of blows feature)
What carries over with an polymorph ?
I think nothing if it is a not humanoid form, but Form of the Giant for example would make use of all this features.
So no kungfu-fighting Tiger, but a kungfu-fighting giant.
What do you think ? Any rules options ?
(Just for Information: I am the GM, but I have a very interested Player)
Technically, since these are all abilities gained from class levels, they should all carry over. The question is whether he could make use of them - iirc, you can't use natural weapons for a flurry of blows, so that is out, for example. Same for increased damage, because again, the tiger is using natural weapons, not unarmed strikes. Unless, of course, the tiger is somehow still able to make unarmed strikes, in which case both the flurry and the damage increase would still work. Also, I vaguely remember a feat that allows some monk options with natural weapons, which would probably also allow tiger claws and bites.
In either case, I don't think there's anything stopping wisdom to AC from working.
Thank you, that insight helps a lot - I was really confused with all this options
This may fall into the 'too stupid to comment' range, but:
What is the RAW/RAI ruling/view on the difference between shapechange and shapeshift? How does you group view any difference, if any.
So, 'surfacing' again after another long disappearance. Combination of time and the possibility of actually playing another shapeshifter have put this back in my mind.
The main thing I'm going to be working on is updating for Beastiary 5 & 6. One of the thing's that's stopped me getting round to this before is that the spreadsheet of full monster stats I used to use seems to be no longer updated. I've pulled out most of the stuff for B5, just need to go through it, then B6.
Main question I have for people is... what else do I look at? I continue to have the general opinion that where a spell/ability tells you exactly what you're getting out of it (e.g. Form of the Dragon, or indeed the Esoteric version) is lower priority than getting the cross referencing of the Beastiaries, but I'm interested in what else people think I should be looking at.
- B5 & B6 added to my list, obviously
- Examining the Shifter class - I'm actually not that impressed given the limited breadth of shapeshifting, open to it, but I'll give it a proper look, and see how the extra benefits that the aspects get work with the given forms.
- Fey Form, which'll require going back through everything and looking from B1 onwards.
- Form of the Esoteric Dragon
- Shapeshifting via Boons/Obediences. Have spotted that the Lantern King gets Polymorph Any Object and Shapeshift as the second and third boons, which you can therefore via those, possibly also using Feysworn or Evangelist.
Any other important spells or sources I'm missing?
There's more wild shape feats. Mutated shape, energised wild shape and frightful shape are all worth a look.
Shaping focus can be used with a 4 level druid dip rather than the other way round - once you've spent 4 levels on non-druid classes you may be far enough behind on the spellcasting that you decide to just be the best huge animal you can. Seen with a monktopus.
An old feat is emergency attunement. How to switch polymorph spells without casting a new spell.
A couple of forms I remember off the top of my head. Cerynitis (B5) is a large magical beast with a 180' land speed, Euryale (B6) is a type of elder medusa (separate entry, not advanced by class or template, not mythic) with 6 snake bite attacks w/10' reach & poison which is still a medium monstrous humanoid. I know Ravingdork made a list.
A new spell is Magical Beast Shape (Ultimate Wilderness) for those really big or small magical beasts. I haven't looked up what it can turn you into, it being a 7th level sorc/wiz spell which is outside the levels I play. Ooze shape is another new spell but it's forgettable. Someone didn't want you turning into oozes with any interesting powers or unusually good attacks.
On the shifter, a FAQratta broke their wild shape into 1 hour increments, which means they can do so many times a day. This makes the shifter's rush feat more useful. They also get to make iterative attacks with a natural attack if they only use one - it's a class ability at levels 6/11/16 so no dipping if you want that though. Some adjustments to major forms. Read up the UW errata before dismissing, basically.
The Shapechanger bloodline from Legacy of the First World. Turn a 1 minute per level transmutation spell that effects only you (Most polymorph spells, though there are some nice non-polymorph options) into a 10 minute per level spell and eventually a 1 hour per level spell. In particular Giant Shape into a troll is all day regeneration, and you can cast resist energy/protection from energy against fire and acid yourself.
Oooh, nice. Lots of ways that could be combined into things, just a pity you can't use it on the Spell Likes from the Latern King.
I'm probably going to avoid going into the nitty gritty of exact builds, though I might link back to your comment here for people to see an example that takes it further — my aim is less 'Here is an unbelievable Oh Em Eff Gee Combo!' and more putting the options in people's hands to combine as they desire.
I particularly like...
Wow, that's pretty spectacular. You could probably get even more mileage out of the sorcerer variant multiclass - it grants the ability at 7th and 9th levels instead of having to wait until 11th for Improved Eldritch Heritage, it's actually less feat intensive without the Skill Focus tax, and best of all there's no Cha requirement, so it can make a solid addition to polymorphers of any casting class in the game.
Ooh, and what if you combined this with the multimorph arcane discovery? Now you can cast just a single spell and change forms all day, shifting between them as often as you want!
I'll have a look at what's more and less easily combineable.
As for Fey Form, I'd put that as last on your todo as Planar Adventures could have an outsider morph spell (Subscribers should confirm the presence/absence a week or so before true release), and I'd imagine it would be more efficient to check bestiaries for both simultaneously. I've done a rough check and none of the options seem too great though.I wouldn't be so quick to discount fey form. First of all, it's one of those lovely spells where your gear changes size instead of melding, so you can keep your weapons, armor, spell components, etc. What's more, it's on the spell list of several classes that don't have many other polymorph options, like witch, shaman, and hunter.
It's not a case of dismissing it, it's more that if I'm going to do six full bestiaries, plus those APs that are in the compiled spreadsheets, it'll be easier to do that once for Fey and Outsiders together, than twice, once each.
It's a month 'till Planar Adventures, and I'm not going to get through everything else before then…
There's more wild shape feats. Mutated shape, energised wild shape and frightful shape are all worth a look.
Shiny, will look at those and add them in. And probably just do a search on 'shape' 'wildshape' and 'polymorph' and 'transmutation' for anything relevant.
Shaping focus can be used with a 4 level druid dip rather than the other way round - once you've spent 4 levels on non-druid classes you may be far enough behind on the spellcasting that you decide to just be the best huge animal you can. Seen with a monktopus.
Will note that, though again, more about giving options than writing builds.
An old feat is emergency attunement. How to switch polymorph spells without casting a new spell.
Not bad, though not as good as Multimorph
A new spell is Magical Beast Shape (Ultimate Wilderness) for those really big or small magical beasts. I haven't looked up what it can turn you into, it being a 7th level sorc/wiz spell which is outside the levels I play. Ooze shape is another new spell but it's forgettable. Someone didn't want you turning into oozes with any interesting powers or unusually good attacks.
Ah yes, I'd remembered then forgotten the Magical Beast Shape. Pity about Ooze shape, but I can add it in anyway — if it doesn't give you much then it'll actually be quicker to add the options.
On the shifter, a FAQratta broke their wild shape into 1 hour increments, which means they can do so many times a day. This makes the shifter's rush feat more useful. They also get to make iterative attacks with a natural attack if they only use one - it's a class ability at levels 6/11/16 so no dipping if you want that though. Some adjustments to major forms. Read up the UW errata before dismissing, basically.
Aye, but they get one Beast Shape II form with a few extra buffs to it. Or a bunch of Beast Shape II options if you're an Ooze.
They're a not bad Bestial Fighter. They just really don't feel as shifting as the shapeshifting class we've been wanting since Pathfinder came out — if Shapeshifting is your focus, they're not the best class, and that seems ridiculous given their name.
I'll cover them, say what they can and can't do. But I ain't gonna hide my disappointment.
Vouivre is listed as five natural attacks and a breath weapon. It misses the real prize: None of those weapons take up the hands which it has. With multiattack that's your full BAB worth of weapon attacks, then those five natural attacks at a mere -2 each. You also have a free head so you can use any bite/gore you otherwise acquire (Ring of Rat Fangs is cheap), plus you could acquire claws via magic item/spell (Shadow Claws is low level and minutes level) and have up to '''8''' natural attacks (If only it had pounce...).
... okay, that's a messed up form. Will admit, I didn't read the whole description of everything, which is why I miss stuff like that. Will mention it, though I may add a "Your GM may tell you to sod off" note on the combination.
Oh it's good to see that you'll be updating!
Combination of being in a PF game again, having resigned myself to the fact that the spreadsheet that made my life easier isn't getting updates, and someone using Google Docs to request permission to make changes to the documents — my response to that was "Bugger off it's my baby!" but it did remind me that there was a fair bit to update.
Worth noting that Lymnieris's second obedience boon is a permanent Greater Polymorph. It can be cast on allies too, but you can only have one active at a time.
Oooh, shiny. I'll have a look through all the Boons when I get round to them as there are a few nice things there — I've been looking at a Sin Monk/Latern King Evangeist for the Skull and Shackles game I'm in, because the game tends towards relatively few long dungeoncrawls and more 'one big fights', and the ability to have 140 minutes of Shapechange a day at level 14 is pretty tempting.