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Doh! thank you!

I'm trying to figure out "Psychopomp, Nosoi" 's skill ranks for Sage archetype.
Can someone help me figure out its sense motive Ranks? hopomp-nosoi
Sense Motive is a class skill for outsiders. so it should have +3 if there are any ranks. But it's wisdom is only a +1. So where does it get a +2 from?

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How I see it for the Sage Familiar:
Every time you level up you have to check to see if the new Int modifier gives you more skills. If it does your familiar get's its number of RHD in extra skill points that level.

Example 1: A Sage Paracletus(AEON) familiar is taken at 7th level due to Improved Familiar with the Sage Archetype, its Int increases from 11 to 12 so it Automatically gains 3 skill points due to racial hit die(RHD)+14 skill points due to Sages Knowledge skill points. It would then gain +2 SP(Sages knowledge) at every even level, or +5 SP (+2SK, +3RHD) at every odd level.(just ignore Paracletus' Extension of all for this example, no that it applies directly but it does help the Sage quite a bit.)

Example 2: Magus takes an Aether elemental at 11th level due to the untimely death of his previous Familiar. Its base Int mod is 4 and has 2 RHD, its new INT is 16 so we subtract 4(-3) from 16(+3) to get 12, then divide by 2 to see how many skill points we get per RHD, then we multiply that number by the number of RHD to get how many skill points the familiar has to spend. even levels he would get +2 SP, odd levels he would get 4 SP.

Per one of the Bestiary books we see that Outsiders get 6+Intmod per HD in skills, which both Aeons and Elementals are subtypes of. it also lists Bluff, Craft, Knowledge (planes), Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth (plus 4 additional by theme.) as class skills.
the same chart has animals(regular familiars) getting the same skills listed under what normal familiars get.

If you take apart the improved familiars to check how many ranks they have it typically works out based on the chart for monster types. (I cheat when I'm have to deal with this and use )
This also matches the saves the base Improved familiars have as well as others.

The best way to optimise this archetype is to find a High HD familiar with a super low Int to start. Give you Familiar buddy a Mask of a thousand tomes(10k) for an additional +10 to knowledge checks.

TL;DR: Sage is a pain in the butt to get started, but if you are playing a sorcerer or non-int caster with low skill points It can be really worth it to pick it up (especially if you get a Paracletus AEON for its "Extension of All" racial SQ).

"If you make a weapon out of, for example, Adamantine, and then apply the Greater Transformative property to it, then when it is transformed to any other weapon, it is an Adamantine weapon. Keep in mind that you can even transform it into an Adamantine Shield, and convey properties that way. The same goes for other material types, though you would pay the cost for the original weapon type as normal."

Add Anchoring to this for a truly awesome combo. Use trip weapon to knock npc prone, set weapon on top of prone person, activate Anchoring. Watch Loki try to lift Meow-meow.

More practical: Throw adamantine net, once it captures opponent activate Anchoring. HP for net is usually 5, Burst DC is usually 25, if recalculated for adamantine it should go up to: HP:20, DC:30 str check to make a burst check of DC:40(guess). Opponent is now entangled or worse.

All of this works best if your GT-A-***** is sentient. (Like your in a Mythic game and have Transformative familiar..)

Spell combat truestrike with a trip.
Now 20+ AC guy has to spend his (move)turn getting up and provoking AoO from everyone that threatens. Everyone gets a +4 to hit him while he's prone. When you do your AoO make it another trip. To keep him on the ground.
Won't work on dragons but it should work on any humanoids until your BAB gets higher. Also for airborne Magic Missile, after you create an illusory wall/hut/Boulder around yourself.

In trying to answer this question I ran into this:
If you look at the upgraded form of the spells II and III, the size change bonus' are listed under the Abilities gained.

(Mwahahahaha lesser thread necro!)

Beware the Kasatha Magus. That way lies two handed power attacks and a shield while casting with no added repercussions

Staring value: 25174gp 0sp 3cp + 1 Artefact
Escape From Old Korvosa
Into the Dying City
Old total: 25,174.03
Section total: 59,141
Running Total: 84,315.03 & 1 Artefact
Emperor of Old Korvosa
Section total: 32,558.5
Running Total: 116,873.53 gp & 1 Artefact
Wrath of the Arkonas
Section Total: 162,704.5 gp
Running Total: 279,578.03 & 1 Artefact
(assuming totals in brackets are accurate, which from the little double checking i did it should be, this is the new totals)
I dont have the book(yet) so I cant double check the stuff in them or I would be happy to help more.

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Isn't the whole idea of the Sorcerer that they cast LIKE magical creatures?

When you see a Dragon Sorcerer is he not getting his powers from his draconic ancestors muddied down by his humanoid parents?

So the line in dragon descriptions "like a sorcerer" isn't there to say dragons do things like sorcerers, its to remind you that they are where Sorcerers got their start/power/casting capabilities in the first place. Sorcerers get eschew materials? its because of their Fey/Dragon/Ghoul/Djin/whatever had magic in their BLOOD that passed into your sorcerer to allow them to cast in the first place.

Fluff doesn't always matter for WHAT the rules are, but for sorcerers it matters for WHY the rules are.

(My Input as a GM, and i understand that fluff is not RAW)

Scàthach Ulster wrote:

@Smurf Many many MANY MANY thanks. With that,

Running Total:25174gp 0sp 3cp + 1 Artefact

When someones working on a project that can benefit everyone in the community and asks for help. . . I was bored. . . I felt like counting. . . Helping you helped me.... You are welcome!

I based all my counts of stuff in [these] not (these)
the real reason I'm here is to see if they reprinted celestial plate.
seriously though, no rush. :-)

by my count (checked 3 times,thank Moradin for ctrl+F):
previous Running Total: 50,609gp 6sp + 1 Artefact

gp: 1351

pp: 130
gp: 36342
sp: 107
cp: 22

pp= 91
Gp= 162637
SP= 120
cp= 173
Chapter Totals
pp : 221 (2210 gp)
gp : 200330
sp : 227 (22gp 7sp)
cp : 173 (1gp 7sp 3cp)
200330+(2234gp 4sp 3cp)= 202564gp, 4sp, 3cp
New Running Total: 253174gp 0sp 3cp + 1 Artefact

I spelled out my conversions so if i got them wrong someone could fix my math : hope this helps!

draxar wrote:
If anyone's got any feedback on this it'd be very much appreciated — anything I've missed, any mistakes, and any suggestions for improving it. I've a few thoughts on that myself, which I've stuck at the end of the document, but I'd also appreciate other people's input.

I love the guide. just wondering are you planing on updating it with any of newer polymorph spells like Form of the Alien Dragon &/or the mythic stuff for shapeshifter's ?

Shapeshifting Mastery (Ex)add 1/2 teir to CL for polymorph effects. & uses Cl as BAB while polymorphed!(I'm not sure if that means your BAB is effectively your CL+1/2 mythic tier for BAB)

Shifting Mastery (Su) spend 1/minute of duration to switch forms as standard action. Take on form of SPECIFIC individuals if you want Per limitations of spell used, animals for animal shape ect.

Many Forms(Su) Alter Self at will, mythic point to do polymorph effects

Mythic Domain (Su)For the Oracles in the house with any of your liste Mysteries.

Mythic Wild Shape (Su)pick a thing you wildshape into, it doesn't count against your daily uses

Pack Wildshape (Su) your allies can wild shape with you. (^Combo much?^)

Plant Bringer (Su)you like being a plant? it just got better!

Mythic Feats: powerful shape gets better!

(Sorry for the thread necro but it was bugging me)
Using Googles definitions can be a bit off, I tend to go with:

a : the shape and structure of something as distinguished from its material
b : a body (as of a person) especially in its external appearance or as distinguished from the face : figure
c : archaic : beauty

since A doesn't work due to all humanoids i can think of being made of "flesh like materials" its would be pointless.

c doesn't work because there is no CHA bonus...

that leaves us with B. Doesn't sound like very "Generic" to me.

I'm happy the Kasatha are getting some more love. I really wish there was more support for them in Pathfinder. :)

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Bump. The Errata for the book has no fix for this.
" Taking that same logic to the Eldritch Scion, and she should actually get these bonus spells at 4th, 7th, 10th, and 13th. Does anyone feel this would be overpowered (like anything on the Eldritch Scion could possibly be overpowered to begin with)."
is something I could work with.
or even "Nope we mean it exactly as it printed currently, giving the 10th lvl spell at 7th" meaning you not only dont get the regular 7th lvl spell, but you get "blank" spell @ 13 as there are no other spells to fill it from the bloodline feature.


Quark Blast wrote:

One last try here (quoting from the rules and using actual quotation marks):

"A panicked creature must drop anything it holds and flee at top speed from the source of its fear, as well as any other dangers it encounters, along a random path. It can’t take any other actions. In addition, the creature takes a –2 penalty on all saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. If cornered, a panicked creature cowers and does not attack, typically using the total defense action in combat. A panicked creature can use special abilities, including spells, to flee; indeed, the creature must use such means if they are the only way to escape."
1) "A panicked creature must drop anything it holds"

So how does said creature use Material Components to cast spells? Huh?

If if creature cannot hold anything, then how can it manage the delicate work of spell Somatic Components?

2) "and flee at top speed from the source of its fear...along a random path. It can’t take any other actions..."

Except that it can and must take other actions.
For instance the taxing and delicate work of casting spells that aid escape.

3) And can, when cornered, and here I quote again the official statement, use "the total defense action in combat".

Total defense action? What is that? "You can defend yourself as a standard action. You get a +4 dodge bonus to your AC" Oh, a coordinated (not random!) action?

Huh? I though said creature was "panicked"? And could only run away, randomly.

And if creature has dropped its weapon as it must, and so presents no tactical threat, does "total defense" even make sense?

4) "A panicked creature can use special abilities, including spells, to flee; indeed, the creature must use such means if they are the only way to escape"

If the creature is running in circles, sorry, along a "random path", then how does the creature know said path is a "way to escape"? huh?

If creature doesn't know the way of escape then how could it matter to said creature if a...

1: Simplest answer: IF you are holding your components for that spell when you gain this condition you drop those components and run away from them. Since I can't find a place where it says you have to have them out, I'd say unless the spell says "you throw an acorn at Joe" they just disappear, but that is a Gm decision, as its generally inferred you have them in hand to cast due to needing hands free for them.

"A spell's components explain what you must do or possess to cast the spell. The components entry in a spell description includes abbreviations that tell you what type of components it requires. Specifics for material and focus components are given at the end of the descriptive text. Usually you don't need to worry about components, but when you can't use a component for some reason or when a material or focus component is expensive, then the components are important." - Components

Therefore IF you drop your components(which you tie to the spell during spell prep) you lose the capability to cast that spell.
UNLESS you have eschew materials or similar ability you are therefore unable to cast any spells that require "Material components". The Panicked condition is a penalty for Failing a roll It is typically an upgrade to the frightened/shaken conditions, usually requiring an upgrade to Panicked from one of them.

2: pan·ic(panik)-noun
-1.sudden uncontrollable fear or anxiety, often causing wildly unthinking behavior.- Google definition search.
Your character is fleeing on a path, that due to its failed save, that it feels is the best way to GTFO. By default players control how their character "thinks" and "feels", when a Fear effect is used it takes away your ability to make that call for your char. This is where the word "random" comes into play, due to most players feeling that the "gm is cheating" if the GM moves a PC in a manner they wouldn't have chosen.
"can and must" is are opinions of a rational mind which is currently not in control of the pc
3: standard action doesn't translate to "coordinated action" anywhere in the rules. "total defense" of a person who is in a state of "panic" is literally doing anything physically you can to avoid being killed, ie putting your hand over your soft places to keep the sharp thing from them. Generally a failed save means lack of coordination. the beginning of the statement is "if cornered" is kind of universal for your back is up against two walls and that's the least of your problems. there fore there is no where to randomly run too.
4:I don't see anything in this that gives you the ability to cast if you dropped your components.

A General response to this issue:
The panicked condition has 3 blanket statements, setting the "general rules" for the condition. It follows with 2 clauses in which the general rules might not cover the situation. Then is followed by an important line that this is an upgraded negative condition.
1: A panicked creature must drop anything it holds and flee at top speed from the source of its fear, as well as any other dangers it encounters, along a random path.
>>Pretty Clear: your pc runs away in a way you, the player, don't control.<<<
2: It can't take any other actions.
>>> The source of confusion IF it were a clause and not the general rule.<<<
3: In addition, the creature takes a –2 penalty on all saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.
>>> this is a carry over from Frightened (see below)<<<
Clause A: If cornered, a panicked creature cowers and does not attack, typically using the total defense action in combat.
>>>This is the writer letting us know that cowering(another condition) is very close by, then giving us an out, by saying you can still defend yourself.<<<
Clause B: A panicked creature can use special abilities, including spells, to flee; indeed, the creature must use such means if they are the only way to escape.
>>> "If" in the middle of the sentence is what make this a clause. "if" means "as long as these conditions are met THEN". meaning if anyone at your table can think of another way to escape then your character can too and thinks of them first and acts upon them.

Panicked is a more extreme state of fear than shaken or frightened.
Frightened's test has a a similar line;
Frightened is like shaken, except that the creature must flee if possible. Panicked is a more extreme state of fear.
Therefore to become panicked you must go from Shaken to Frightened to Panicked. Unless a spell/effect OVERRIDES YOUR WILL and forces you into this state directly. That is 3 saves against your best saves as a caster. (the convo is mostly geared towards wizards it seems, ignore last line if that's not the case)

if you want to get bent about this rule, realize the level of spell that's causing the issue and look for its balancing point. most fear effects cause shaken then upgrade it on subsequent uses.

In Summation
1.sudden uncontrollable fear or anxiety, often causing wildly unthinking behavior.(via google search)
by failing your save(s) it causes unthinking behavior in your PC.

On a cranky day as a GM I'd say this breaks any concentration spells you have up as well.

Bump~ In the next campaign my group is running, we'll be doing Mythic post appoc. this would be a a handy Faq to have answered.

Im very new, so I apologize for my ignorance.
it seem to me that doing something for others would be a nice way to balance things.

Perhaps Making any weapons that go over +10 into intelligent items
that use the virtue/vice to determine their Ego would help