Witch tips, trick, and voodoo magic

[Stalarious]

Ok so after reading the class guide on witches I am not going to lie I have the itch to try the out. However I have no what's good or not aside from the guide.

So I am asking all you hedge witches, shaman, and voodoo witch doctors out there what has been good combos you have found. What were something's you found out that you wish you knew before you built the witch? Was there a awesome combo that you stumbled upon I wanna here it all!

[Please Don't Kill Me]

Okay, so I made a Human Scared Witch via Racial Heritage Orc and I love it. You can even take a dip into Barbarian for a nice boost to your Hex DCs while raging. Just make sure to grab Raging Vitality for Extra effect! Even better is you can lug around an Armored Coat and sling Hexes with no penalty and when you need to cast a spell just spend a move action to remove it. I am basically our meat shield/debuffer.

What I really wanted to try after making my Witch though was a Halfling with the Jinx alternate racial trait, Malicious Eye, Bolster Jinx, and Sluggish Jinx. Just pump your up your Int and don't worry about your Cha because your Jinx save is now tied to your Evil Eye Hex! While you don't get a natural bonus to Int you can easily manage an 18 with a decent Dex and Con Score.

[Stalarious]

Awesome! that sounds really fun the halfling would be my fav. I love them as spell casters.

What about spells/hex? I keep hearing about misfurtune and evil eye any other combos out there that people are willing to share?

[Adamantine Dragon]

In keeping with the raging scarred witch, you can always take slumber to ramp up the power to crazy levels, if that's your goal.

Cackle is your friend.

Witches are powerful enough that they really don't need to be optimized to be fun to play. I avoided that temptation and went with a voodoo witch with a focus on social skills (bluff, diplomacy, intimidation) and UMD to get the benefit of non-witch wands.

Hexes, in general, are better than spells, so you can choose spells that a wizard or sorcerer might not want to choose and still be a solid combat contributor.

I like prehensile hair just for the flavor.

[Please Don't Kill Me]

Well, if you have Malicious Eye, Bolster Jinx, Iron Will, and Sluggish Jinx your Evil Eye will be potent. You can get all of those feats by 7th level and a failed Will save will give the enemy one of the following. First you can go with -5 Will Saves, -3 Fort and Ref Saves, and -1 Attack/Initiative. Or you could go -3 Will Saves/Attack and -1 Fort/Ref/Initiative Saves.

With the first option I would say just skip the Misfortune Hex if an enemy fails their save and hit them with Slumber, then they are out and a Coup de Grais should finish them off. But basically Evil Eye, Misfortune, and Slumber are your go to Hexes and anything after that is what you feel best fists your character.

[Corlindale]

Don't neglect your actual spells either. Ill Omen is a particularly nice option that goes well in combos with your hexes and other spells. It's very useful to quicken to set up your Save or Die spell. Useful enough that I'd consider taking Magical Lineage for it.

[666bender]

i played my witch the forst time last week.
i found it a good balance of buff/ debuff person.
a few tips:

1. knowledge is your friend
get high enough on all knowledges so you'll know what you are facing. especially you need to know who got good will saves or mind effecting immune.
2. avoid 1 shtick ponies.
yes, you can cna ubber debuffer, so great in what you are doing you'll force the Dm to bring a golem to grab and shut you up OR force it to have loads of great archers to kill you ...
i like to act differnt on every combat, ine debuffing, one healing and one boosting.
3. choose your spells well:
take at least 1 blast spell to act Vs swarms, 2-3 save or suck spells like blindness and rest either summoing OR buffs like enlarge person, haste and so on .
4. remember fortuen can and should be used on summoned creatures... makes them alot stronger with 2 rolls...
5. take craft wands feat. ill omen, obs. mist, cure light are all VERY worth the cost.
6. i for one, took charisma and diplomacy via trait, so i can also allure and talk of combat, gives me more to do in the game.
7. fly!! fly!! fly!!! every time the opponent is strong and on the ground.

[Stalarious]

Wow bender thats alot and it sounds like you really enjoyed your witch!

So lets stick with the raging witch so I can get some solid information if you were playing this and you start at lvl one would extra HeX be a good lvl 1 feat to grab or is there better? since I dont have the ultimate magic book yet I only have the basic to look at for reference.

[Arizhel]

I am putting this in caps because it is just that good:

META MAGIC ROD OF QUICKEN + ILL OMEN.

Low levels, Slumber hex first, then everything else. Slumber never gets old or useless. It is so much better than the spell:

1) Standard Action with no AoO.
2) No HD Limit.
3) Ever increasing DC.

MMM tasty.

No matter how good you think Slumber is, it is even better.

Int: You cannot possibly have too much of it. If possible, start with 18, and use your race to bump to 20.

Mounts. Everyone says get one, very few are specific!

COMBAT TRAINED. It costs twice as much for good reason!

The purpose of a mount is so you can use the DC 5 Ride check to Guide With Knees. This lets you move around, and cackle, and hex/cast spell/shoot a crossbow.

Core Rule Book, Page 201 wrote:

Mounts in Combat: Horses, ponies, and riding dogs can serve readily as combat steeds. Mounts that do not possess combat training (see the Handle Animal skill) are frightened by combat. If you don't dismount, you must make a DC 20 Ride check each round as a move action to control such a mount. If you succeed, you can perform a standard action after the move action. If you fail, the move action becomes a full-round action, and you can't do anything else until your next turn.

[Emphasis Added.]

If you Do Not Have a Combat Trained Mount, It Does Not Fit the Intended Purpose!

If your mount is not combat trained, it has the opposite effect of what you were trying to gain.

[Arizhel]

Oh, and get Lipstitch.

[Stalarious]

Ok whats lipstitch?

Also any items that you know of that are almost clearly made for the witch?

[Kazejin]

Useful gear from Ultimate Equipment:

Cackling Hag's Blouse:

Spoiler:

This loose-fitting blouse is adorned with grotesque fetishes and trophies, granting the wearer a +2 competence bonus on Intimidate checks. If the wearer is a witch, she gains the cackle hex. If the wearer already has the cackle hex, twice per day she can use her cackle ability as a swift action instead of a move action.

In a high-level game, you can use it to gain easy access to Cackle without needing to take it manually. However, Cackle is so useful that most witches would probably still take it manually regardless. In which case, you gain the ability to use it as a swift action twice per day. Can be helpful in situations where the action economy is tight.

Corset of Dire Witchcraft:

Spoiler:

This slimming garment is fastened with laces, buckles, and buttons and reinforced with ribs of leather or bone. A corset of dire witchcraft grants a +4 armor bonus to AC. If the wearer is a witch, each day when she communes with her familiar to prepare spells, she may enhance one hex she knows, increasing its caster level by +2 for 24 hours. This enhancement ends if the corset is is removed or if she uses it to enhance a different hex.

What's hotter than a witch with high charisma? One who wears a corset. This little beauty is a great way to put a little extra oomph behind a hex, and the awesome thing is that you can change which hex you apply it to each day. The wording in the description is questionable, since most hexes aren't based on "caster level." My interpretation is that it was meant to say class level, because well, the alternative is far too restricted to be worth the gold (only a few hexes are based directly on spells, many of which just aren't worth a CL bump at this price). Consult your GM, but if he makes the same ruling I do, then this little gem becomes a fantastic pick-up. Skip it if he stays RAW. Oh, and you'll never need to cast Mage Armor again, if that matters to you at all.

[Adamantine Dragon]

I have to say that I generally dislike any gender-specific items that push players to conform to outdated stereotypical gender roles. My witch is male, and I don't think he's going to want to wear the corset. Yes, I can flavor it as something else, but I shouldn't have to. The items should just be generic items that provide a mechanical benefit and the player should decide the gender and the fluff.

I get enough sexist silly jokes as it is.

[Kazejin]

Arizhel wrote:

Low levels, Slumber hex first, then everything else. Slumber never gets old or useless. It is so much better than the spell:

I'm just going to say, it's okay to not have Slumber at levels 1-2, but it's a great pick-up at 3rd (via Extra Hex) or 4th level, and beyond.

At level 1, Slumber is a single-round SoL, which is useful, but not outstanding. The spell is just better here (one round versus one minute). At level 2, the spell is still relevant, and still has the same save DC. Level 3 and beyond, though, is where you'd want to make that tactical switch. Being a pseudo-spellbook caster, using a spell known on a HD limited spell doesn't hurt nearly as much as it would a Sorcerer, for example. If you really need a single-round SoL at level 1 (or 2), use Daze. The HD limit is, again, quite workable at levels 1 and 2.

Adamantine Dragon wrote:

I have to say that I generally dislike any gender-specific items that push players to conform to outdated stereotypical gender roles. My witch is male, and I don't think he's going to want to wear the corset. Yes, I can flavor it as something else, but I shouldn't have to. The items should just be generic items that provide a mechanical benefit and the player should decide the gender and the fluff.

I get enough sexist silly jokes as it is.

Is re-flavoring something really that much of a hindrance? Paizo doesn't make books with mechanical crunch without putting their own flavor to it. Flavor-adjusting should be a regular consideration for any table-top RPGer in my opinion, as you can't expect every item to be a generic item, or every feat to be a generic feat, etc etc.

[Zero Crossing]

Arizhel wrote:

Oh, and get Lipstitch.

I love that spell. "Shoosh you!"

Evil Eye is a MUST. (You get to make faces at the GM!)
Vomit Swarm. (Its just super cool to say "I puke up a swarm of spiders.")

I have a PFS Standard Witch and a Home Game Half-Orc Scarred Witch Doctor. The Home game witch wins hands down. I am sure that the PFS Witch will get better at higher levels, Mobs just don't last long enough for me to get more then one or two hexes out.

[Adamantine Dragon]

Kazejin wrote:

Is re-flavoring something really that much of a hindrance? Paizo doesn't make books with mechanical crunch without putting their own flavor to it. Flavor-adjusting should be a regular consideration for any table-top RPGer in my opinion, as you can't expect every item to be a generic item, or every feat to be a generic feat, etc etc.

Putting gender-specific assumptions about ANY class should be something Paizo purposefully and by design avoids on principle. That's something that is so obvious that I find it slightly alarming that it even needs to be pointed out.

[rashiakas]

That's your opinion Adamtine Dragon. I totally like gender specific items and wouldn't mind classes/feats etc. that are gender specific as well.

[Adamantine Dragon]

rashiakas wrote:

That's your opinion Adamtine Dragon. I totally like gender specific items and wouldn't mind classes/feats etc. that are gender specific as well.

Actually I wouldn't really mind this either, if it was consistent and made some sense. However, my point is that this is directly contrary to the clear direction that game publishers have been moving for years. Just read through the core rule book and the obvious editorial decision to negate gender differences leaps out of the pages.

So I find it surprising that the same people who went to great lengths to shatter gender assumptions in their iconic characters would return to gender stereotypes for the witch class alone.

[VRMH]

Adamantine Dragon wrote:

I generally dislike any gender-specific items

Who said anything about the corset being female-only? It's a common enough garment, worn by both sexes over many time periods. Just 'cause nowadays the male versions are out of style (unless you call them kidney belts) doesn't make the Pathfinder version mono-sex.

[ChrisO]

VRMH wrote:

Who said anything about the corset being female-only? It's a common enough garment, worn by both sexes over many time periods. Just 'cause nowadays the male versions are out of style (unless you call them kidney belts) doesn't make the Pathfinder version mono-sex.

I must agree. While they're perceived as gender-specific, they are not. Men have worn them for the last few centuries, at least.

And they can look dang good on men. I have two myself, and can't wait to get my hands on a third. Do a search for Dark Garden Corset Beau Brummell to see a fine example (and, I hope, my next one...)

[Blueluck]

Adamantine Dragon wrote:

I have to say that I generally dislike any gender-specific items that push players to conform to outdated stereotypical gender roles. My witch is male, and I don't think he's going to want to wear the corset. Yes, I can flavor it as something else, but I shouldn't have to. The items should just be generic items that provide a mechanical benefit and the player should decide the gender and the fluff.

Paizo isn't being sexist when they publish a corset as a magic item. I know lots of guys who wear corsets. Here's one I particularly like, and think would look great on a male witch. Here's another.

[Stalarious]

well also you can apply the enchntment to a item of a similar slot instead of a corset make it a shirt or like the said a kidney belt(which if i am correct is like only having the belly portion of leather armor) Just because they only use one example of a enchantment on one item doesnt mean you can't apply it to other items.

This is awesome! you guys/gals rock any other tips tricks adivce out there?

[CalebTGordan]

Also the limp lash spell, but you should talk to your GM about it and look at the discussions here related to it.

High initiative is a must. Get it as high as you can so that you can beat the enemy in initiative. Debuffing them first sets the tone of how the fight will go for you.

Witches are the single enemy masters, so pick your targets well. When there are multiple targets, work with your party to decide where to focus. It may be beneficial for your party to focus on one group of enemies while you focus on a single target. For example, if there is a spellcaster behind a group of minions, your party can keep the minions off you and push them back so that you can shut down the caster.

[Stalarious]

Ok so they are the BFM(big freaking monster) killers, So They are good at single enemy debuff/killing

Are they also good with buffing the Team at the same time? I know cackle helps keep hexes going and that scarring can help with the range so, I guess is it possible for witches to dual hat jobs in combat and still be benifical not OP but benifical?

[666bender]

easily ...
take time patron , use haste , fortune, enlarge person and so on when buffing and cursing while debuffing ...
also... rememebr to summon + fortuen the summon thingy.

[Blueluck]

Stalarious wrote:

Ok so they are the BFM(big freaking monster) killers, So They are good at single enemy debuff/killing

Are they also good with buffing the Team at the same time? I know cackle helps keep hexes going and that scarring can help with the range so, I guess is it possible for witches to dual hat jobs in combat and still be beneficial not OP but beneficial?

The Fortune hex, possibly combined with scar and/or cackle is a great buff. Witches also get healing and most of the "Remove X" spells, as well as a number of good buffs like Mage Armor, Enlarge Person, Fly, etc. The Agility & Time patrons both add Haste to the list.

These are my favorite patrons, with their key spells.

• Time: Silence, Haste, Teleport
  
• Elements*: Flaming Sphere, Fireball, Flame Strike
  
• Healing: Lesser Restoration, Restoration
  
• Agility: Haste, Freedom Of Movement, Polymorph
  
• Transformation**: Beast Shape I, Beast Shape II, Beast Shape III. . .

* People denigrate the Elements patron because it's all about blasty spells, and "blasty is bad". Witches have lots of save-or-lose, and great ways to target willpower and fortitude saves with their hexes and core spell list, but adding a single direct damage spell at each level really rounds out their choice of weapons.

** I list Transformation because all witches have familiars. If you plan to use your familiar as more than a spellbook/alarm clock, Improved Familiar plus the transformation spells is a good way to make it a threat.

[cartmanbeck]

Blueluck wrote:

** I list Transformation because all witches have familiars. If you plan to use your familiar as more than a spellbook/alarm clock, Improved Familiar plus the transformation spells is a good way to make it a threat.

Question... how do you get around the fact that your familiar always has only half of your hit points? The Con bonus from Transformation literally does nothing to a Familiar as far as HP....?

[Arbane the Terrible]

cartmanbeck wrote:

Blueluck wrote:

** I list Transformation because all witches have familiars. If you plan to use your familiar as more than a spellbook/alarm clock, Improved Familiar plus the transformation spells is a good way to make it a threat.

Question... how do you get around the fact that your familiar always has only half of your hit points? The Con bonus from Transformation literally does nothing to a Familiar as far as HP....?

Ward Hex, Extended Mage Armor, and False Life, in my case. (And I still haven't used it much.)

[Kazejin]

Blueluck wrote:

* People denigrate the Elements patron because it's all about blasty spells, and "blasty is bad". Witches have lots of save-or-lose, and great ways to target willpower and fortitude saves with their hexes and core spell list, but adding a single direct damage spell at each level really rounds out their choice of weapons.

Depends on the goal, really. Unless you're hard-pressed to do damage right now when your turn comes up, you're better off using Summon Monster spells if you want to provide extra damage output to the party. A spell that continues offering damage + extra utility every round for several rounds will almost always beat casting something like Fireball in terms of damage output; unless you intend to bump it with maximize and empower, that is.

But, that being said... A very good way to make the Elements patron very useful is a little thing called Dazing Spell metamagic. A regular Fireball is lackluster. But a Dazing Fireball is something that rocks the battlefield pretty hard. It helps provide the witch with ways to dish out several reflex-based SoL's, in addition to all the will and fortitude SoL's they already possess. If that's the plan, then the Elements patron gains a lot of weight.