Goblin Squad Member
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OK, I'm getting tired of reading for people...
For some reason I don't think any location will be 'easy to find' for everyone. This one is right smack on the page most people should see.
I really hope GW clears up some of the terminology and misunderstandings as it seems to be creating a fair amount of bad blood and irritation. Preferably in one of the paizo blogs or a FAQ so it is easy to find and to put everyone on the same page. I really do want to see them do well but a million is a lot of money...
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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$60 for the game, and about $20 for a month's subscription gives a price point of ~$120 for the game and three months time included in the player pack. You can guess differently at what the industry-standard prices will be in 2014, or you can discount future money by more than 9.5%/year, but you can't share assumptions with me and claim that it isn't economically advantageous to pledge at $100 even without the early enrollment.If I invest that money in short terms gains I'll have enough to buy a fourth and maybe fifth month of subscription and I can do without the digital stuff.
That's a very specific claim: that you can get 20-40% return on investment within two years.
If you could demonstrate an investment that has that expected result (in the Bayesian sense), you wouldn't think $100 to be an expense.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Initially I was of two minds about this second kickstarter, initially I wasn’t pleased at the thought at the thought of shelling out even more money for the game. Then reality hit me and I did a few calculation for what I paid to play SWTOR, and what I’m currently continuing to pay. Suddenly I realised that the $100 Us dollar pledge isn’t such a bad deal. A digital copy of the game, plus a three month subscription, plus early entry, plus some extra goodies! I’ve already spent far in excess of that on a game that I find less than thrilling. So I very quickly pledged the $100 and now I’m feeling rather pleased with myself.
So true. I've been sitting here thinking about my first pledge of $100. And trust me the debate for dropping the money for the $500 has been bouncing around in my head like mad. I mean that's early access for myself and 5 other friends. Plus that's even more money that goes to developing this game. Hopefully more staff means a slightly faster turn around with getting this game released.
Goblinworks Founder
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I would love to donate more money to the cause but I've already put in $250 for the tech demo and really cannot justify more for a game that I may not even like. I love to encourage indie development and also innovative projects such as this but I cannot justify more in the current economical climate. If it were an investment it would be a different story but I am the consumer in this relationship, not the investor, so there is no return of investment beside having a nice new game to play and quite frankly that is not worth more than I have already spent considering I still need to purchase the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you could demonstrate an investment that has that expected result (in the Bayesian sense), you wouldn't think $100 to be an expense.
Funny, because with credit cards at 20+% APR I find the prospect of "investing" $100 in paying down a card a pretty clear way to manage that.
You don't have to be loaded to be able to spend your money smarter than this proposition. You can also just be normal and have debts.
I bet you 90% of the people who are backing have credit card debt . . .
Beyond that, managing to make a 20-40% return in 19 months isn't at all unheard of, or overly difficult using a number of different methods. "Likely" is probably something you'd like to evaluate in a "better than fifty percent" . . . but I submit to you that we have no proof that is it "likely" that GW will be able to deliver.
They have nine employees and an entire, fully functional base sandbox which is stable to complete. In 25 months.
That's not an easy deadline to meet. If they make a million, we see some more people get hired, and the dev timeline drop by six months. Again, we have no measure of how "likely" that is to happen. Even GW says it's a projection. Having worked in and played in the MMO space I can say that MORE OFTEN THAN NOT in my experience, deadlines slip. (As in, I can say it is unlikely they will actually hit Jun/Dec 2014.)
So to break it down for you simply, I can manage to, by applying $100 to my credit card balance, make what appears to be as much or more than the value of the basic game plus three month sub pretty handily within the window we're looking at for the "hopeful" release of PFO's "early enrollment" . . .
So please don't act like it's far-fetched. If anything, given market forces, I find it exceptionally unlikely that a year and a half will have seen MMO sub averages rise to $20. (That would be completely uncharacteristic of the past trends.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Been doing my reading on PFO and have now signed up and pledged $125 for early access.
Have to say that whilst I recognise that there are no guarantees this is the first MMO that I have been excited about for a very long time.
It has made me smile reading the comments about charging for beta, I for one appreciate the honesty that is being demonstrated here. Games like SWG were to all intents and purposes paid beta, Warhammer online was terrible for the first few months and whilst these were not labelled beta they had all the characteristics of one.
IF they can build a committed community early on to develop the infrastructure within the sandbox and realise the potential here, then I will be very happy indeed
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Goblin Squad Member
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You really have to understand the entire picture to get why GW is doing what they are doing. A lot of people simply don't understand the big picture GW has already painted.
Kutos to mumbles for actually doing some reading.
I actually enjoyed warhammer the first few months, but I didn't scream to the end. I played about 5 characters through the first 3 tiers before I had my first 40 which I had to power grind out because quests got annoying and tier 4 pvp mixed you with high RR 40's as you leveled. It got bad when EA-Mythic decided to unbalance the sides to balance the population bias towards destruction, it was amazing how much easier it was to excel on the Order side. Not to mention the two months of order-only xp boosting. Game was built to fail from the start, you can't have a game where the outcome of the battle is both a factor of the server population balance, and how early in the morning it is. And the fact that 100 people could swarm a castle never having to use a siege engine, and having plenty of healing to all withstand boiling oil as they pound on the door with swords...
I hate talking about warhammer, because I can never be brief.
...wait, two kickstarters for the same thing?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Personally I'd be interested to know what MMOs you've played where there was no wipe. For any MMO that I'm aware of that is aiming at the same level as Pathfinder, there has been a wipe.
Second, from what Vic Wertz and Ryan Dancey have both said on the forums, this game has the backing to release the game in 2014. It's 'money in the bank' to coin a phrase. What this Kickstarter is about is helping to release the game earlier than that projected date. As a reward for that backing, you get into beta early and we've not yet cleared up whether you will have to pay for the beta, which given the game will be free-to-play would seem at odds with their business model.
Apparently you are not reading the same things I am reading.
Subscription during early release and Subscriptions + Hybrid Microtransactions post release is what they have stated TODAY.
The problem is many people will assume that nobody has to pay during early access. What happens when they actually get their 3 months early access and it runs out and they're sitting there with a half-broken game going "why the heck am I paying for this" . . .
Again, the only people who directly profit from an earlier release are the investors and Goblinworks. They're apparently wanting to make that happen on the backs of the users. That, to me, is disingenuous, and contrary to the actual crowdfunding and investing spirit.
Well the obvious answer would be that they would promptly stop paying for it and the game would fail.
I do understand where you are coming from, and your concerns are all valid. However I think Paizo and Goblinworks have been as up front about this as they can be. What they seem to be doing is trying alternative fund-raising methods for the game. It's absolutely natural to be a bit skeptical and concerned, its never been done this way before, so why are they trying this now.
The system does have a slightly 'under-handed' feel to it. I don't think its intentional, but microtransactions are the long tried and tested means of crappy games to get cash, so its hard to shake that stigma. A second Kickstarter accentuates that, and raises the suspicion meter accordingly.
The problem is of course that everything is absolutely untested until you hit that third month in 2016 so there's nothing to allay those suspicions until then (except with what Ryan and co tell you) and if you're left with a bitter taste in your mouth, well that's a long wait for such a disappointment. Even if the game is a success I imagine there will be people that feel that way and their complaints will no doubt be loud and angry. I don't know how you can really deal with that. People get very fired up and passionate about MMO's, and almost every game post-WoW (and a few pre) have suffered from broken dreams.
I find it hard to believe the whole thing is some big con designed to line Ryan's pockets at our expense though, Paizo themselves as a company are staking their reputation on this venture, and they have a very good name in gaming, so I can't imagine them wanting to throw it away. I don't know Ryan, but he has seemed to be up front, approachable and willing to explain when and where he can. For that, I am willing to try and see what happens. If I'm disappointed at the end, well such is life and I'll happily wander the gaming forums with you venting my angst.
Going back to what Ryan has already said; beta for Pathfinder will be what would be loosely termed release for other AAA titles. What we consider a beta (bug fixes, load balancing, core gameplay design) will be done in alpha. 'Beta' for PFO will ship with a fair amount of content for playing. Think of it as an extended stress test. Ryan and Goblinworks have been forthright all along in saying that not all of the features will be implemented in-game at release. After all, what point is there in releasing with the settlement system in place when no one will be able to build a settlement for X number of months, as an example.
I really think we're getting hung up on the nomenclature here, as well as applying theme park expectations to a sandbox game. Look at Eve Online. Almost 10 years on and they are still tweaking and adding to core gameplay mechanics and it's going strong!
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Goblinworks Founder
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Personally I'm not bothered about a second or even a third kickstarter. I just can't justify forking out the money for it. I'm sure there are plenty of people that can, but I have accepted that I cannot spend another $100 after spending $250 already. I would have liked to have helped alpha test or even been in the crowd forger crew, but I don't expect it and I don't feel like I should be entitled to it. Whatever happens happens, I wish Goblinworks, Paizo and the Crowdforgers good luck in their endeavours and hope to see you 2 or 3 months after launch.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would love to donate more money to the cause but I've already put in $250 for the tech demo and really cannot justify more for a game that I may not even like.
I think this is a legit beef. I'm sure there were plenty of people who went all in for the tech demo, not knowing there would be a second round. The rewards for the second round are more significant for most of us, because they are directly about what we are here on this board about.
I wasn't around for the initial Kickstarter but didn't being part of the Goblin Squad convey some kind of benefit to jumping the queue in testing?
Ah, that does kind of suck then.
What Corwynn said. Squad badges are only applied at the end of the Kickstarter campaign so you'll get it on the 14th of January, assuming that the Kickstarter reaches the goal of $1,000,000.
Supported the first one and had no problem doing so. Will not be doing it again, and my interest overall has dropped.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was kind of expecting a kickstarter of this sort, albeit maybe not this soon. I am very excited to see this thing develop and be able to play a part in it as well.
My feedback so far:
1) Based on reactions so far it might have been wiser to drop the 'beta'-term for the 'early launch' period, since people seem hesitant to 'pay for beta' (given they associate this with something different from what is actually intended with PFO). It might be useful to set the record straight on this matter.
2) It will require A LOT of 'new'/non-Pathfinder people to back this project to reach the desired goal and more if no more incentives are added for current backers to upp their pledges. Currently I am backing with 100 USD; but with no family/friends to invite I am not spending more money on more boxes. However I would suggest you add optional add-ons to the backer levels such as:
a) Goblinworks t-shirt (such as the one for the first KS project or something similar)
b) Printed versions of the PDFs
c) Extra subscription/game time (e.g. 3, 6 and 12 month passes, and maybe even a limited 'lifetime'-subscription.
d) Printed artwork / PFO posters - maybe even ltd. editions with signatures from the core development team.
e) Exclusive design influence: Such as being able to get a named NPC, bandit-camp, area or something similar into the game. Could be limited and priced higher. (Of course conforming to the PF universe etc.)
I would personally be interested in most of the above options, but probably financially barred from participating in exclusive design inputs. This might be an incentive to get some of the current backers to up their pledges with add-ons.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've been heavily following this project since January, 2012 and started posting heavily on these forums specifically because of this:
From A Journey of a Thousand Miles Begins with a Single Step:
A question some of you are likely asking is "how do I get to be one of the first 4,500 people in at launch?" We're going to have several ways to get into the queue to play Pathfinder Online, and many of them will be based on being an active and contributing member of the global Pathfinder community.
I would never dream of telling Goblinworks that they "owed" me early access because I've been an active and contributing member of the community.
The Technology Demo Kickstarter was very clear that you were not buying anything related to the final MMO. The Goblin Squad was described like this:
From Pathfinder Online Technology Demo ($30 Pledge description):
The Goblin Squad will receive special alerts letting them know about new information first, and we’ll give special priority to Goblin Squad members throughout the development process.
I'm a member of the Goblin Squad. Actually, I'm a 3-time member because I produced a video for the http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2npg3&page=1?Help-Goblinworks-by-making-a-v ideo thread, and I've contributed sufficiently to both Kickstarters. There are no more than two dozen 3-time members. And as far as I can tell, there are not more than two 4-time members, since only Rokolith and Kryvnus were recognized for their contribution toward the "Crowdforging" term.
I would never dream of telling Goblinworks that they "owed" me early access because I'm a member of the Goblin Squad.
I was one of the first 10 people to pledge at the $175 level because I wanted to make sure my wife and I both got in as early as possible, and I finally saw an opportunity to do that. But I realize that it's still not guaranteed because the Kickstarter (God forbid) might not actually reach its funding goal.
And guess what: If the Kickstarter doesn't reach its goal, I still would never dream of telling Goblinworks they "owed" me early access.
$60 for the game, and about $20 for a month's subscription gives a price point of ~$120 for the game and three months time included in the player pack. You can guess differently at what the industry-standard prices will be in 2014, or you can discount future money by more than 9.5%/year, but you can't share assumptions with me and claim that it isn't economically advantageous to pledge at $100 even without the early enrollment.
At $60 for a box and $20/month with no first month free, PFO would have to be the WoW-killer that has long been prophesized but has never actually shown its face.
A much more reasonable small-press MMO should price itself at a $40 box with first month free and $15/month at most. I feel a $100 pledge is definitely me paying a ridiculously high premium.
Now, if the $100 pledge were an actual Collector's Edition (limited edition fluff items, physical sound track, physical tchotckes like a mouse pad and art book), then I could value that at $80-100. In that case, the number start to make more sense. If it were a digital collector's edition, with limited time permanent goodies in game and digital downloads of art and music, you could argue that was worth $60.
However, the monthly fee for three months should be priced at at most $30, and that's on the high end.
I'm willing to grant that Goblinworks isn't EA or Blizzard, but trying to say that an MMO 'should' cost $120 for the first three months is not something that makes sense to me. Even a niche game that can get away with charging more than the 800-lb gorilla in the room can't justify $120 for 90 days of play at launch, so saying $100 is a huge bargain fails. $100 is a bargain because it guarantees (for the first 2000 of us, anyway) day-one play. If you were coming in to an established game, you should expect to pay $30-40 for box+first month, and $13/month if you're willing to buy time in chunks. $70 for box and 4 months of play time is what I, as a consumer, would expect to pay for this at retail.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It might be useful to set the record straight on this matter.
Despite all the sound and fury about it, the Kickstarter was actually pretty clear that they would have paying customers during beta.
Making Pathfinder Online will require a three-step process. First we will develop the basic game systems needed to get the game into a playable state. Second, we will open the game to our first paying customers during Beta – a stage of development akin to Gmail’s initial launch; all the features in the game will work but many aspects of the complete specification will still be in development. Third we will complete the Beta phase and Release the game. On Release, all of the basic game systems will have been implemented and polished and we will be focused on adding content and expanding options.
I enjoy Kickstarter, and don't have much against the company doing it this way. That said, I have mixed feelings.
I feel that subscription-based MMO's are on the way out, and ESPECIALLY by release, that will be an obsolete concept. I would have expected that a fairly competent and forward-thinking company like Paizo/GW would have recognized this.
This is also a BAD time of year to start a Kickstarter. Waiting 'til Jan/Feb would have been far preferable. I don't think I can afford to get in on it at this point even if I wanted to.
All that out of the way, I'm very interested to see what rolls out, and I imagine the content of the finished project will be rather excellent. However, I don't see myself paying a subscription for a game like this unless it's a rather different format than most existing fantasy MMOs.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I feel that subscription-based MMO's are on the way out, and ESPECIALLY by release, that will be an obsolete concept. I would have expected that a fairly competent and forward-thinking company like Paizo/GW would have recognized this.
You should really make an effort to understand the pricing model Goblinworks has already described before you fault them for doing something they're not doing.
I feel that subscription-based MMO's are on the way out, and ESPECIALLY by release, that will be an obsolete concept. I would have expected that a fairly competent and forward-thinking company like Paizo/GW would have recognized this.You should really make an effort to understand the pricing model Goblinworks has already described before you fault them for doing something they're not doing.
Disagree. If GW wants 1 million dollars from the community to pay for the development of their game, THEY should make THE effort to let everyone know what's up.
Don't say they have done this, it just requires you to go read through both kickstarters, and all the awards, all the videos, and all the forum posts, and this, and that, and don't forget the fine print...
GW wants 1 million dollars! The fact that there are so many people (who are the built in fans for their product) who don't know whats going on, or what they are getting, or have gotten or were promised/offered/owed/etc shows a failure on behalf of GW to communicate to the community that they are milking money out of.
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Goblin Squad Member
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THEY should make THE effort to let everyone know what's up.
What specific methods should they use to inform people?
Don't say they have done this, it just requires you to go read through both kickstarters, and all the awards, all the videos, and all the forum posts, and this, and that, and don't forget the fine print...
Ain't nobody got time for that?
Seriously, since there are a thousand little points that somebody is going to complain about, and they don't have a crystal ball to know which ones aren't "clear enough" (according to some), what the hell are they supposed to do?
Do you really want them to put a list of all-caps disclaimers at the top? Would that even be sufficient?
GW wants 1 million dollars!
And the people who don't have time to read a little bit before putting their money on the line make a really good case for why some people think it should be illegal for people who aren't rich to make investments.
I'd rather live free, where I'm responsible for my own actions.
... shows a failure on behalf of GW to communicate to the community...
False. It shows a failure on behalf of the community to pay attention to the communication that GW has been desperately trying to get them to read for almost a year.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just pledged as $100 Crowdforger #400.
I have to say I am fascinated by this funding model as much as I am by the potential of the game. A couple thoughts:
-The pledges are really pre-paids since they are almost exactly equivalent in value to buying the game and paying X amount of months depending on the pledge. Because of the "soft opening" nature of the game, these pre-paids will probably increase in value as we get closer to this beta. A pragmatic mind would call it buying a share with early access as your dividend.
-Even though I did not pledge to the first kickstarter (didnt know), I really hope those that already pledged $100 to that first one find a way into that first wave (especially if it's only <200). Fair is fair.
-I understand the sneers from the MMO vets, but let's face it, whatever has been "the norm" for starting up an MMO over the past 10 years, it hasn't worked. It has been a miserable failure in producing the games we the players actually want and should have by now considering the available technology and it has been hit and miss as a business model.
-I am a fan of the Co-op business model and all of this seems very Co-op-y to me. I could see this theory being taken to the next level in the future and games being financed as Co-ops. I know it sounds like a selling line when GW says "this helps us keep the game pure without investors messing it up". But I actually believe that line. There is such a huge difference between having that cushion in the face of investors and not having it. How many titles were destroyed this past decade between the conceptual phase and the final product because of Investors caring about money over product and ending up with neither? It takes money to vote on the product and I believe micro investing from the customers who are going to actually use the product is the best quality assurance there can be, especially for a community driven product like an MMO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
To be clear, I'm not trying to say that people shouldn't voice their opinions, or even complain that they don't think the pledge amounts are worth what GW is asking for them.
But these efforts to say that Goblinworks is acting in bad faith, or has failed to effectively communicate what's going on, are ridiculous on their face.
You can't complain that "there's too much information" and "there's not enough information" in the same breath and expect to be taken seriously.
Also, I don't think I misunderstand the pricing model, unless the Kickstarter page and FAQ somehow mis-state it.
Note that I wouldn't say that Goblinworks is doing anything wrong/irresponsibly. Like Avari, I appreciate the cooperative approach of Kickstarter and don't mind at all being the investor in a situation like this.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@swordborn: Also:
Your Pathfinder Online Character > The EVE Model
This pricing skill-training model makes sense for EvE, as demonstrated.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Some thoughts on the conversation here....
- I understand the idea that GW doing a 2nd Kickstarter would leave a bad taste in peoples mouth's, it kinda caught me by surprise too.
- However most games DO require a non-refundable pre-order for Early Access to the game. They may term that access "Headstart" or whatever, but I've seen plenty of AAA MMO's do that. Granted that access is usualy a week or a weekend not 3 months and those games usualy don't start taking pre-orders so early... but frankly no AAA publisher would build the kind of game we want to see, the game GW is building, or have the kind of connection and communication with it's fans that GW does either.
- GW was absolutely transparent with how the money it raised from the first Kickstarter was spent, what it's budgets were, and what it achieved. When donating to a Kickstarter you can't really ask for more then that. GW was absolutey clear about what the funds for the 1st Kickstarter were and were not about. If people read more into it then that, then you can't blame GW for those misconceptions..and frankly some of the rewards for the 1st Kickstarter (like the autographed copy of ThornKeep) were pretty decent value in themselves.
- Closed/Open Beta's with MMO's these days are often more about advertising then anything else. GW isn't doing that with PFO because they are building PFO around a different model....part of that model includes a staggered release and gradual growth... frankly that's smart and one of the things that made me feel more confident about PFO because it helps mitigate some of the issues that a game like PFO will face....and honestly that a new studio, like GW, will face in running a live game. So instead of using Pre-Release access for advertising, it's using it to generate a little more funding up front, so it can get the game out there earlier and with more features. That improves the chances of PFO, as it means it can get a revenue stream going earlier.
- Lastly this is the Free Market at work. If people don't see any value in Early Access to PFO... or think they are getting a raw deal...they won't chip in any money for it... from what I've seen so far, I don't think that's something GW will need to worry about. Clearly those of us who are opening up our wallets see enough value here to do so. The only just cause I would have to be upset would be if GW promised one thing and delivered something else. So far there is no reason to believe that. They've delivered on exactly what they promised. I have a Thronkeep .pdf that's pretty darn cool sitting on my computer and access to a Tech Demo that looked pretty darn good to me to prove that. YMMV.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The real problem is the people who accuse Goblinworks of trying to deceive them by making them pay for Beta, even though the Kickstarter cleary says they'll be taking their first "paying customers during Beta". There's nothing anyone can say to those people that will do any good.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nihimon is right on the money. The information has been there from the get go - blogs, forums, ks updates/comments. We should strive to be informed and fair in our criticism. As a side note, N should not have to do all of this, I believe GW should be shouldering the informative communication. Either way I am glad there is someone like N in this community.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, count me in on this Kickstartar as well.
I personally find the 100 USD pledge reward pretty good for its value, as digital copy + 3 months of game is pretty close to that amount for most subscription-based MMOs. Sure, there is the detail that the game is not out yet, but otherwise it's icing on the cake.
Goblinworks, you have my absolute trust in this project. Go get 'em, goblins.
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Goblin Squad Member
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And I am not adverse to this way of doing things at all.
HOWEVER that does not mean that you also have to start charging people when they start testing for you. (Or maybe just to be fair, 3 months after they start testing for you.)
It's sufficient to say "pony up" and "first pledged, first testing" . . .
Please note that NOWHERE is it EXPLICIT that that first period will have a sub fee attached to it. This is a problem! We only know this t be true because we have asked directly for clarification. People are being asked to drop $100+ for "beta" access without a clear, honest, COMPLETE explanation of WHAT that means and (and this is very, very important) that they WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.
I'm not trying to be a jerk at all. I am trying to make this a success. But the way to do that is to be really quite abundantly super terribly absolutely clear.
I think the beta word is an unfortunate term. This reminds me more of a restaurant doing a "soft opening" than what we know as beta.
When a restaurant is in "beta" they open for some friends serve some pre-fix dishes that they are TESTING and it's like a dress rehearsal for the wait staff. Nobody pays money at these events.
What GW is describing is clearly a soft opening, where the restaurant opens for a few weeks or a month but only allows X amount of reservations and no walk ins. The menu items have been tested but certain things are subject to change and only a limited portion of the menu is available to order. The wait staff is raw but they are fully trained. The restaurant is in a phase where they can charge for their product but they are not yet the full experience it is supposed to be.
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Goblin Squad Member
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3) Because I can't pay right now, I'm not able to access a game that I really want to play and a game that I've supported in the past in the first kickstarter until an estimated 2 years after I could if I paid $100 right now. That doesn't feel right especially when people who haven't supported the first kickstarter but support the second get in. (I know I've got the awesome Thornkeep but you know what I mean). If I'd known that there was a 2nd kickstarter then I may have held back some of my cash to drop into this one.
I have a hard time believing a backer like yourself will have too much problems getting in very early. There will be back doors made for people who gave money and supported it 3 years out.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have a hard time believing a backer like yourself will have too much problems getting in very early. There will be back doors made for people who gave money and supported it 3 years out.3) Because I can't pay right now, I'm not able to access a game that I really want to play and a game that I've supported in the past in the first kickstarter until an estimated 2 years after I could if I paid $100 right now. That doesn't feel right especially when people who haven't supported the first kickstarter but support the second get in. (I know I've got the awesome Thornkeep but you know what I mean). If I'd known that there was a 2nd kickstarter then I may have held back some of my cash to drop into this one.
I would be very surprised if you weren't correct, avari3. From the beginning, Goblinworks has stated that those with more community involvement (Goblinsquad members, formed Chartered Companies, frequent posters, etc) will get preferential treatment for early access.
They have 31,500 invites to send out in the first 7 months of early access. I think that leaves plenty of room for all of the tech demo backers to get invites during that time, even with all the guaranteed slots from kickstarter2 and allowing for media slots, guild slots, etc.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Again, if they'd chosen a term like "soft opening" or "limited release", then there would be just as many people complaining that what they're doingi is "clearly a beta".
They say they pondered it for 6 months, I think they got it wrong. I would have called it a limited release and stuck to my guns on it. Forget about semantics, just from a marketing standpoint to reach the goal it makes more sense.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Another point about those who feel like their membership in the Goblin Squad was "wasted":
From Announcing Kickstarter for the Development of the Pathfinder Online MMO!:
Because the Goblin Squad is so important to us, we're contacting you first, as we promised. We hope you take advantage of this early notice to become the first to join us as we Crowdforge Pathfinder Online.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm going to look at this Kickstarter this way:
I am preordering the Digital Collector's Edition of Pathfinder Online. With this preorder, I get early access to the game, and a bunch of nifty digital goodies.
I paid for World of Tanks during its Beta. Did the same for Tribes. I don't play either of those games very much, but I'm glad I helped get things going for them.
I've also paid good chunks of money for "Collector's Edition" versions of MMOs; Guild Wars & Everquest 2. Again, I don't really play them anymore, but I enjoyed the results of my investment. Heck, I didn't even get Beta access with those two.
With this arrangement, I get all of that. Extra goodies. Three months of subscription. Guaranteed Beta access to a no wipe Beta.
Yeah, I'm totally cool with $100. Worth every shiny penny, to me.