Thanaldhu

Corwynn Maelstrom's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber. Organized Play Member. 87 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 7 Organized Play characters.


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Besides, secret rolls may be rolled by the players at GM discretion, so if you're REALLY concerned about having to roll those yourself, just have your players roll. That makes it basically no different than first edition play outside of the fact that you have to make up something when they botch a roll. The players will know the information is false, so it doesn't really matter how "good" a ruse it is—the characters are obligated to consider it real information.


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Many changes will seem harder than the way it used to be because you're just not used to doing things the new way yet. Give it time.


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As a general rule, scenarios like this are only made available after the convention. I would expect it to become available next week.


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I got hold of Sam by phone today, so you can disregard this. She took care of everything for me in about 3 or 4 minutes. *all the thumbs up*


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Orders 7942150 and 7962269 are pending and need to be merged so they will ship when everything is ready. Once they've been properly merged I can update the payment method so they're ready to go when everything is in stock. Thanks in advance!


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The order in question is 7942150.


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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

My latest order should have activated 4 subscriptions (it even says it did, and three are showing next to my name here), but I am missing the Pathfinder Accessories sub in my account. (As such I can't turn on the Pathfinder Society Scenarios free sub.) The products were listed in the pending order (Screen, Char Pack, Combat Pad, Cond Deck) so that should be fine...I hope. I just need my account to actually reflect that I have a Pathfinder Accessories sub.

Additionally, in spite of the fact that I selected the Lost Omens World Guide as my starting product, the system is telling me that I will be shipped the final P1 Campaign volume. Please adjust this so that I don't receive anything until the Lost Omens World Guide.

Thanks for your time.


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What we've done (Talen and I on Fantasy Grounds) is run SFS games and then run the AP with a different set of characters so people can just do as they please with their SFS character while waiting on their AP character to finish off the three sessions.


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And Cathulhu, as for the "yeah but all you need is one shot" thing, that's fine. The fact is that you suggested you could fire more than once. That's not the case.


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I was just pointing out that there's a built-in response to being sniped at. (Ray of Light, pg 107 if you care.)

If you want to get to the point of being able to determine where fire is coming from, I'd submit that a bunch of computer, science, and combat experts with access to powerful computers and cameras will PROBABLY be able to figure out where shots are coming from pretty quickly. I'd make them roll, but it's not going to be even remotely close to impossible. The time it takes gives the Solarian time to become fully attuned and then they fire off the Zenith Revelation. Instant melee range, even if they've retreated a bit from where you land. (Stellar Rush as a standard action.)

Now, if the GM is designing enemies that not only snipe from a thousand feet away but also do a one-sided clean up in melee against the strongest melee class in the game, well that sounds more like an issue of managing expectations. I can make NPCs that the PCs can't kill, uh, because...I just choose not to.

Personally I think this is unlikely to be as usual a counter as those using spells (Dimension Door at 10th, Teleport at 13th, or Shadow Walk at 16th, which all allow passengers) except at very high levels (17+, as Solar Acceleration is pretty much too good to pass up at 9th) but it's notable because you can just do it on round 3 (which is plenty of time to make checks to determine sniper position) and arrive fully powered up...and at 17th+, with a friend in tow—so even if the GM is fudging a little, the odds are tilted by that much.

Sniping is really good, but it's not without counters outside of sniper rifles—particularly once characters hit mid-level and can rapidly move to mitigate a sniper's line of fire, or to engage them.


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The scanning rules work well as far as I can tell. My players (who vary, as I run public Society games on Fantasy Grounds) tend to go for the scans immediately and switch to balancing shields later on as damage begins to fly. Once they have hull and shields I (semi) openly mark that on the same reference sheet as they use to track their own ship info.


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The hand wave appears to be kind of like a lot of the other ones. Things work the way you want them to. (Drone flight is an example. It just kind of works through whatever method. Firing certain weapons in unusual environments as well...they just work.)

I personally explain it as the suits having basic repair tech which deals with suit integrity.


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Yeah, and Technomancers who don't pick Magic Missile are dummies.

Every class has things which are awesome, things which are meh, and things which are highly useless except in very specific cases which will only come up in certain campaigns. (Which means your character will probably know they need those weird things by the time they have access.)

I don't see that as being some huge detraction from a given class.


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Ravingdork wrote:
Even as written, sniping with a sniper rifle is mechanically strong, if somewhat unrealistic. People just can't respond at those ranges unless they themselves carry sniper rifles.

Solarians.

"Oh, that Book Depository window...yeah, I go there. Instantly." ;)


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Snipers can only be fired once a round, period. Like all other unwieldy weapons they can never benefit from any method of gaining multiple attacks. No full attacks. (Or triple/quad...) No haste effects.

Unwieldy weapons are very good at one thing. Hitting hard once per round.


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Three sessions. One per part.

We run from 3:30 to 8:30, and only the last one was close to time, so I'd imagine 12 hours on average if you don;t go haring off in a weird direction.


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A character which has sleight of hand and stealth and which does not have their weapon drawn at almost all times?

Ok, fine, so if you get ambushed you don't get trick attack...then again, you have perception so hopefully get an action to draw your weapon while making a move for cover in the surprise round...

But honestly, if there is going to be danger, you have your weapon drawn. If there's even a whiff of trouble in a situation where it's inappropriate to be armed, you have the skills to have your weapon drawn and concealed.

If you're not playing your operative as paranoid and ready to go off at a moment's notice, you might want to reconsider your choice of class. ;)

***

The rules say no. I run SFS, so I have to say no, but I'm also inclined to just say no anyway because it's pretty simple for operatives to work around these things. They use small arms, which are very much something you can conceal if you feel things are about to go badly. In any instance where you're in a true ambush, you should be able to get a single action (to move and draw a weapon), and in those very rare cases where you just flat out don't have your weapon out, you can still do a single attack after moving and only be missing out on your TA damage for a single round...

***

As an aside, your full speed while prone is 5' because the only move you can make is a crawl. I can see how you could interpret the rule differently, but I hope you can see how it's possible to also interpret the rules as limiting prone movement to a crawl.

I think that you may have passed into a weird space and might want to step back. You appear to be making things much more complicated than they need to be.


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Bad is deliberately in quotes to indicate that it is a subjective assessment that some people could make to describe certain stat placement. Trick Attack working with skills with non-Dex attributes is a mechanical helping hand to all of those players who have an idea for their character which is not represented by the traditional key stat. (Which is usually seen as fairly important, if not the absolute most important...)

In short, we agree that characters being able to reflect the preferences of their players without being utter passed by (as would be the case were Trick Attack not usable with such a wide variety of skills) is important.


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mike roper wrote:
So I think the reason there are more than one check you can use is both flavor and the developers not wanting to pigeonhole anyone. From a power point of view having any stat higher than Dex seems less then stellar. I know there are people out there who are going to have OP with Max str, wis, int, chr and for those snowflakes they will still get to use trick attack well as anyone thanks to the options .

This right here is pretty much it. If you want to run an Operative which relies on a "non-optimal stat" (i.e. they are not a Dex monster) you can still have one which does the job with their Trick Attack. You can play a role which is "bad" mechanically and not totally screw up your combat ability.

Yes, if you are a "min-max, DPR, the party is relying on me to be perfect" type of player, it ONLY makes sense to take Ghost. But you are not the only person who plays RPGs. Your view is not the only one which matters.

For the same reason that people will play melee-specialized Vesk mystics of the god of strife, people will play Operatives that have extra high Charisma stats...and THOSE Operatives may very well take SPY, even though it's not mechanically as good. But they will still be able to do their jobs, because the designers actually bothered to give the Operative options.


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Again, it's obvious that you can, with rolled stats, have whatever.

Hell, if your GM lets you, you can just have all 26s.

Point buy, however, is the ONLY legal method for playing Starfinder in Organized Play and—since a lot of people started gaming after rolling stats was the norm—it's the preferred method for the majority of tables. As such you will see a large number of people talking about point buy characters.

Even those of us who DO allow rolling. Because obviously if someone says x is impossible, it's not going to have anything to do with rolls.


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Xenocrat wrote:
Matches wrote:
Corwynn Maelstrom wrote:
Math. That's 1 more point than a human can have even if they take 10s in all four other stats.
Am I missing something that says you don't roll ability scores anymore?
It's the same place that says you don't wear bell bottoms anymore.

I can't think of any reason for the question in regards to rolled stats. You can start with six scores of 18. The only reason you would need to know if specific scores are possible is in reference to the point buy rules.

But if you are talking about rolling, I suppose that the answer is: because they didn't roll that high...


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Math. That's 1 more point than a human can have even if they take 10s in all four other stats.


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ENHenry wrote:
We have a Ysoki Operative in the group with something like a +13 to Stealth, and in our first session, when trying to trick attack a CR 1/2, he rolled 5 or less on his d20 FOUR TIMES IN A ROW. We were all breaking out in laughter by that point.

I missed all my checks at +18 against the final encounter in AP1. It can happen. (I also missed like crazy...)


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Nothing in the overcharge text or explode property indicates that a heavy weapon would be eliminated from the benefits of an Engineer's various boosts. Supercharge Weapon will work with half value as well.

Benefit being the use of an AOE attack which is pretty much impossible to miss (targets AC5) that does a fairly massive amount of damage.

Shock casters and plasma cannons are viable for this build if you sub in heavy weapons proficiency and heavy weapons specialization at 7. You lose out on a single armor slot and improved initiative and gain a 4 to 40+ square AOE attack option.

Level 20 Plasma Cannon is 8d10 and affects 12 squares. That's 44 base average damage. Pretty much as soon as you drop a shot on 2+ targets without evasion you're ahead of the game.

Shock caster is 7d12. That 45.5 base average damage. It's going to be pretty easy to find two targets within 42 squares...

I'm not saying this is what it's best to go with. I'm just saying that it's an amusing alternative.

(Oh, as a bonus, take deadly aim. You're not missing anyway. Even at extreme ranges 5ac is incredibly easy to hit.)


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Well, if you don't care about doing things out of combat it does nothing, anyway. :)


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Level 4 character here (my other is level 3), as of tomorrow I will have run all content but Into the Unknown as a GM (have played the quests, but have not played the special)... am picking up 3 more (1-02/03/04) this weekend. (Will put me at having run 00, 01, 02x2, 03x2, 04x2 = 8 tables plus the AP, which can't be reported.) Not as many as you have run, but a fair number. I'm missing one piece of content as GM and one as a player.)

Ditch the evergreens and there are 7 weeks of dead space (har har) in there.

It's not the end of the world. I still wish that we had more scenarios. I think it would have been nice to have had 3 scenarios scheduled every 2 months and the changes to the APs. That would have been the right balance IMO.

I do not really want to do the AP again. I may feel differently in January, but for now (having finished it last week) I'm not keen on playing or running it. It was OK, but not OK enough to want to repeat it.

I'm eventually going to run Into the Unknown (I would have at the con, but multiple other GMs decided to), and I think I might be OK with running it again given I was OK with how it played. The evergreen scenario is OK. It makes me laugh because of the "oops" factor inherent in one of the sections.

And, finally, the content gets thinner the further out we get. The more the evergreens need to be repeated...which they do, shortly after your timeline stops. We'll see if we get more content as the season goes on, or if we're going to have more "dead space" to deal with...

(Note that the changes to the APs are, pricing and length issues aside, excellent. Being able to run every AP all the way through and do it in event or campaign mode is great. Probably the single best move they made with Organized Play in Starfinder.)


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I see the exploit you're referencing now. In any case, Trick Attack is one of those things that will rarely fail with an Operative who is paying attention to their setup. Even if you don't take the exploit you're not going to have too difficult a time making your checks.


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My point is that the BUILD IN QUESTION uses the mk2 to augment CON. I am saying that perhaps there is a better augment priority?


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Full attacking is not worth doing if you narrow your window of possibility to hit to too great of an extent. Improving your full attack penalties is a good thing, as such. I certainly would not say there is "almost never" a time when you would not full attack.

Taking 10 on an in combat check? If you have a *really* lenient GM who hates the mechanic... can't take 10 if you're under pressure. Combat is generally stressful. Trick Attack is meant to be rolled.


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Curious about the personal augment choices. Anyone else feel like CON is less than amazingly important? Feels like DEX/INT are better for mk2/mk1...


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Feat selection doesn't work correctly as Quick Draw requires a BAB of +1.


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Considering that there's a truly massive number of charges in a battery, the standard lines and notes field are going to be far better at tracking for, say, soldiers, than the old type of section which was mainly used for tracking the lower numbers present in Pathfinder.

A character who is running around with a variety of weapons (which, given the setting isn't entirely without merit) could potentially be tracking multiple weapons totaling hundreds of charges/ammo combined, not to mention the extra batteries/magazines they may be hauling around for their next reenactment of Rambo. Contrast with Pathfinder where mainly you were tracking 25 charge wands.

YMMV, but I'd prefer to track things inline (e.g. a weapon line might read "Laser pistol (azimuth) 17/20" after expending 3 shots in a scenario) rather than using tickboxes. (Of course, I'm personally REALLY fond of hash marks for tracking pretty much any reasonable quantity anyway.)


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For our Starfinder Society games on Fantasy Grounds, GM Talwynor and I repurposed the Pathfinder Society Inventory Tracking Sheet. It's got a new logo, a bit of a different (slightly more "modern") font treatment, the elimination of charged items from tracking, and an additional notes field wherein anything interesting and relevant to the character's gear can be easily recorded. (And, of course, it is a form-fillable PDF.)

As characters begin to level up after 1st, this tracking becomes more relevant to our brave SFS pioneers. (My own Professor Zoom will be level 2 after Tuesday, so I needed to nail down his starting equipment!) I figured there's no sense in NOT sharing the work.

Please feel free to download the inventory tracker and pass it around. The sheet is available at the following shortlink:

fbt.li/sfsinvtracker


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I feel like a bit of a dummy, but with the forums being so text-centric, it was not immediately obvious that the first line of the post was a download link.


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The Core Rulebook specifies what can be added on without re-buying the item, so you have those rules available at least. (Fusions and whatever the portable fusions are called.)


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They're equipment. They're not expendable or duration-based. They apply IMO.


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http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoInc/organizedPlay/sfsrpg

That's the Organized Play section. All you need to do to run events in the first place is register them using the Organized Play tools on the site:

https://secure.paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/myAccount

Creating an event there and adding sessions will allow you to report them.


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Why was the word snipers included in this title? Clearly the intent was, "Technomancers are the Best." No? ;)

(Also, 1000' is not 1000m, so you can only snipe from like 3 kilometers away.)


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The first boon is free. The cost is in case you want to buy more boons after the first. You are correct.


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Supercharge Weapon was pretty brutal, but so was full round Magic Missile. Hard to discount not needing to roll to hit to dish out 10.5 average damage.

All in all, Technomancers are much less crap at low level than Wizards. Which is a GOOD thing. Particularly for Society play.


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FWIW, quest 1 of the 5-pack, my Technomancer granted an Android Soldier Supercharged Weapon. His hunting rifle one-shot the boss.


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Pax Rafkin wrote:
How soon can they cast 3 level 1 spells? At level 2? (Guessing, no book in front of me) That plus spell cache and the whole party gets Weapon Surge.

No. One person per round gets it. It has a duration which lasts until the end of the technomancer's next turn.


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Standing next to an ally boosting their attack is just one way to use supercharge weapon. It's a great spell which can be adapted to the situation at hand, while maintaining your distance from the unpleasantness of a melee.


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12-14 health pool technomancer with a low-to-mid teens AC pair is not going to want to mix it up in melee if they can afford to miss it.

At 1-3 the fragility issue is so pronounced that anyone actively seeking melee has a death wish...

This is not actually a problem. A soldier is probably doing 1d12+3 or 4 (and can manage 5) per turn, and can do 2d12+6 or 8 (or even 10) if they're in the thick of it. For zero resource cost...while usually having a better AC pair and of course a bigger health pool.

It's not the technomancers you need to watch out for at low level. It's the blitz soldiers.

*** stupid edit dumped my post ***

Long story short: jolting surge is not a problem, supercharge weapon is vastly superior except in situations you want to avoid, and Starfinder is MUCH different than Pathfinder, so a) it's going to take time to adjust (Alien Archive can't come soon enough) and b) you should worry more about the resources you KNOW the party will have available, because in most cases those are the more dangerous ones.


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Pax Rafkin wrote:
This makes it difficult to design boss type NPCs. You'd have to adjust on the fly based on whether or not your casters have their level 1 spells left.

Or you can look at it from the other angle: your players need to be aware that they can't just blow through their spells and expect that they'll have an easy time with bosses.

Besides, at higher levels that 4d6 is literally almost nothing, so holding onto it is pointless. A level 11 doshko can do 4d12 on every attack, which you can easily have two of in many situations, while you can only ever cast one spell...and that's not even getting into the fact that weapons benefit from an array of damage boosts that spells don't.

Even the weapons a technomancer brings to bear at that level are a good tradeoff for that jolting surge. You're much, much more likely to spec Dex than Str as a technomancer, meaning you can full attack (say at 3d6 P with a level 10 semi-auto) and have a good chance of hitting from a safe distance, rather than having to jam your gun into an enemy in melee range, risking your delicate behind...

I thought about taking it, but eventually did the math and chose magic missile instead of jolting surge. The range is a huge issue. The squishiness of the technomancer does not lend itself to being that close to enemies. (They're not known for wearing the big, thick armor, really...) The need to do damage in close isn't something that you should dismiss, of course, but to pretend that your boss-killing strategy is going to rely on touch range spells?

Eeesh...


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There's a lot of concern about the pregens (and honestly, the pregens are their normal mediocre selves) but they CAN acquit themselves well. One MAJOR problem arises when you look at the options they're given at the start. While meant to make people feel like they are customizing their characters, the options are pretty much a trap, with only one being really decent. Also, it's important to realize what the pregens bring to the table, so I'll cover that a bit as well to make GMing this module a bit easier.

Choices and tactics matter...:

I'm just going to concern myself with the last fight, as that's the one which is truly brutal.

Ezren: His customization here is best used for the Scroll of Resist Energy (giving an effective DR of 10 to someone against the succubus' flame blade). While the other two scrolls don't suck outright, they're not nearly as beneficial as basically giving someone the ability to ignore being hammered.

As far as what Ezren will do for you? Top of the list is charm person. Managing to subdue Zadendi means being able to force her to spill the beans regarding Avalexi. This will give the party massive amounts of information to prepare from.

He also has Knowledge: Planes. He just needs to roll a *5* or better (free action) to be able to determine something regarding Avalexi's defenses or abilities. (If he compels Zadendi to help, this can be done before facing her with a bonus—up to basically knowing everything about succubi, as checks can be retried as much as you like under such circumstances—for using an appropriate library, or even just upon beginning combat for a quick rundown.) Minimally you reward successful Knowledge checks with an additional piece of information per additional 5 points of success. ON AVERAGE Ezren will recall two things about her. (As a GM I'd go with vulnerabilities first—cold iron and good—and then hit up her powers of domination and charm monster. What you reveal is up to you, of course, but skills should matter in Pathfinder, so giving trivial information seems petty to me.)

In combat he's capable of using his wand of magic missiles to good effect (she can resist them, but he's only needing to roll a 13 for his CL check, which is pretty damned decent, and 3d4+3 is going to average 10.5 damage a round) as well as casting protection from evil (remember, this forces another save on dominate/charm) and invisibility, both useful to his allies. Dispel magic (as a counterspell or after the fact) is also clearly not awful, depending on what's being tossed around.

Ezren is a very solid pregen in this module. His contributions may be less "direct" than simply blowing stuff up, but never underestimate the power of just KNOWING things in Pathfinder. I consider him to be integral to the group if you're running all pregens.

Harsk: The most useless of pregens at the best of times (except maybe at level 1), Harsk's customizations are crap as well.

Harsk has 30gp. This is arguably his single best resource. 10 cold iron bolts cost just 2 gold. A cold iron battleaxe (sadly not masterwork, so bringing him down to +6 to hit) is only 20gp. If Ezren can get a good read on what the party is up against before they approach, Harsk can go from being pretty much completely useless to only being mostly useless!

Harsk is BEST when he's simply threatening the succubus, allowing someone to flank off of him. Harsk's best use in battle outside of tossing mediocre damage (cold iron bolts hit on a 17+ for 5.5 average and even flanking he's just as bad off if not worse with a melee weapon, at +9 or +8 depending on if he's using his typical masterwork or a cold iron axe that might actually do damage) is giving a combatant resist energy (again, fire) and wielding his wand of cure moderate wounds aggressively.

My advice? Pick Harsk last. (Sorry dude. Whoever designed you hated you, that much is clear.)

Kyra: Quicken Spell means being able to fire off two spells per round—this is no joke, particularly since it basically means she can get the party ready to maul the succubus even if Ezren has *not* come through with preparatory Knowledge. Turn Undead is not awful, but not very useful in terms of the final fight. Maximize Spell LOOKS like your second best option, allowing a pair of 24 point searing light blasts, until you realize that this means both a touch attack against AC 15 and CL check against SR, meaning two consecutive rolls of 13 or better, so about a 16% chance. That's Harsk levels of badosity. (TL;DR: Quicken Spell. It's what's for dinner.)

Her Sense Motive is a good skill if the party is unaware of who "Lex" is. It can save the day. Literally. (First off, because Sense Motive opposes Bluff directly during the time that "Lex" is trying to get out of the cage, and secondly that Kyra is going to be targeted by Death Touch if she's in the party, and Sense Motive is the defense against the setup. If Kyra does well on her Sense Motive checks the fight with Avalexi can start on fairly even terms.

Align weapon doth not suck. Marisiel and Valeros can benefit *greatly* from having a good weapon. (Kyra can technically give them BOTH a good-aligned weapon in one round if she's got Quicken Spell...) Harsk can get aligned bolts as well, if necessary. Bull's Strength is a superb buff for Seelah or Merisiel and, like align weapon, it has the advantage of a long enough duration (5 minutes) that it can be used outside of the immediate pressure of combat if Kyra senses that there's going to be trouble (or the party is forewarned)—as with Ezren protection from evil is great stuff and dispel magic is an option.

Kyra's attacks are pretty awful, so she's best in support. Fortunately she does that extremely well. She's a must-have pick for a group of pregens.

Merisiel: Vital Shot will work with her Rapier. (Ideally Merisiel will be flanking and stabbing with her rapier, and any 18-20 roll being turned into a crit is welcome...particularly if she was the recipient of a bull's strength cast in which case she'll be adding an average of 6.5 damage) Thrown cold-iron daggers automatically hitting a couple of times—including if Merisiel is not visible via Stealth or invisibility thus being eligible for sneak attack—is also very welcome...making her the least-trappy character. Huzzah!

Note that Merisiel HAS a cold iron dagger. This is excellent! Note also that she has enough money to buy herself a BUNCH MORE. (They cost 4gp each.) If Ezren comes through with advanced knowledge of Avalexi's weaknesses this is a no-brainer buy.

Merisiel is literally trying to get off a steady flank and drive home precision damage with a weapon that penetrates. (Ideally, again, a good-aligned rapier.) If Merisiel has both align weapon and bull's strength a flanking attack gives her a hit on a 15+ and averages 16.5 points per round. That's very nice. To protect her, she needs to rely on Spring Attack. Getting out of the way of the succubus's retaliatory strikes is imperative.

When buffed (good weapon at least) Merisiel is very effective. I'd consider her a good top-4 pick. She does require a bit of attention from the other players to allow her to move about and execute her flanks.

Seelah: Here's a HUGE trap. Biggest one in the customizations. You have cold iron arrows, and can replace them with +1 arrows. Seems good. More damage. Better to hit. USELESS AGAINST THE BBEG. On top of that, it eliminates your ability to take the cold iron longsword +1, which on the surface doesn't seem all that interesting (even though it's 2000gp more expensive by the books) but saves her from needing to bless weapon against the succubus. Or you can grab potions, which are often tempting...but just don't. This is just an ugly bunch of choices with awful, excellent, and bad choices within the module being pretty much the other way around in most scenarios.

So, yeah...SMITE EVIL. That's +3 to hit (and AC) and +10 damage against an evil outsider. Divine bond adding +1 to the weapon is nice, or she can go for broke with keen property (threatening on a 17+)...if she's playing flanking partner (with Merisiel or Valeros) things get ugly with her hitting on a 13/14+ (+1/keen) and doing wrecking-ball levels of damage. Her average with smite evil and +1 from divine bond is 14.5 (19.5 on the first hit)...if she crits with smite evil and keen (not SUPER common, OK, but far from a real long shot) her average damage is (I kid you not) 27 (37 if she crits out of the gate)...bull's strength, you say, Kyra? *shudder*

Ah, and she can cast spells. Like bless weapon, which can give her a good weapon if she chose poorly and both burned all her smite evil uses and didn't take the cold iron longsword +1. She can also give that good weapon to her allies, as she has two castings...

As usual, Seelah is a strong choice. She's pretty much a must-have, and easily outshines Valeros in terms of front-line fighting given what she brings to the table.

Valeros: The second-best set of choices available to the pregens. Battle Fervor is great to potentially lay out more damage, and Boon Companion can be a (friend's) life-saver. There's no real wrong answer here, thankfully.

As noted, he needs a good weapon. He can better use a pair of them though. Alternatively he could swap his longsword to both hands. This affects his chance to hit and his damage. Valeros has good damage, but he suffers from a lower chance to connect with his blows than Seelah when he's wielding both weapons. In terms of spell economy and ensuring he can do the most damage, it makes sense for him to switch to two-handing his longsword. A little math to account for doing this:

+5/+0 Base Attack Bonus
+1/+2 Weapon Focus/Specialization
+3/+5 Strength
+1/+1 Weapon Training
+1/+1 Magic Longsword

So Valeros is sitting at +11/+9, OR +9/+13 if he uses Power Attack. (He loses one point of AC.) He scores on a 15+ without resorting to Power Attack, so that's good. Add in a flank and it might even be worth switching to Power Attack. On average he's doing 13.5 damage on a hit, or 17.5 if he uses Power Attack. If you took Battle Fervor he can get in two attacks like this during two rounds of combat.

He's not Seelah, but he's absolutely going to put out some damage.

***

In closing, it's not that the pregens are complete trash (well, ok, Harsk...) it's that you really do need to make good choices and not flub too many rolls. If you fail to do this, it's going to get painful...

Goblin Squad Member

Elorebaen wrote:
Honestly, you had to know walking into the place with a chip on your shoulder was going to make folks bristle?

You mean having an opinion which was something other than Paizo/Goblinworks/Lisa/Ryan, etc are perfect? Sure, I know the industry well enough to realize that I'd get fanboy heat instantly.

Doesn't make it appropriate or conducive to keeping people involved long-term. Hence the post. :)

Quote:

Oh yea, btw, no need to play the martyr :)

Until the course is due, see ya.

In order to play martyr I'd have to see myself as a victim. I'm afraid that's not in my blood. :)

See ya.

Goblin Squad Member

And my wife and I are still pledging $175.

My concerns are not outright condemnation of the project, they are raised in order to (in the great deal of time left) ensure that some kind of action may be taken in order to work on the weak points of the pitch.

I have no doubt that that can, and will, happen.

My major issue with the "game" part is that if we are to be expected to pay for early enrollment, it needs to be exceptionally good for a pre-release game . . . and I'm not seeing that right now. I don't see the path by which PFO will be worth paying as much as WoW, Rift, or EVE, even with the carrot of supposedly being MORE interactive with players than other teams have been. (And I have seen some pretty substantial interactions in the past, so that's a high bar.)

So I hope that during this KS we can see the updates start rolling out which sketch out what precisely the game WILL have in it (sure, some of that will be rough, but I mean, how many hexes, how much legroom to explore, what kinds of base systems, etc.) so that people will feel that they will not simply be throwing more money down a hole just to be allowed to test.

I'm looking forward to seeing how it all works out. The industry in general interests me, and I'm more than happy to see how different projects unfold. PFO is just one of a half dozen upcoming releases that have a fair bit of my attention. It's my hobby, after all, and I like to know not just where we've been, where we are, but also where we're going. :)

Goblin Squad Member

If the answer is already known you get this all too often here, however:

Player 1: Raises comments and concerns

Player 2: You are a wrong-thinker who is wrong.

Player 1: You're a jerk, I'm leaving.

***

And that's where I'm making the point. I don't disagree with you that your second example can be bad (either because Player 2/Dev WAS rude or because Player 1 overreacted) but I think more to the point is that when we DO know something it's still possible to disagree, and the "regulars" are too heavy-handed.

At least at times.

Goblin Squad Member

I'm sure you'll all miss me terribly as I go back to doing what I actually do for a living (writing for pay, not forum points) but as I step back and wait for the next step of crowdforging (which I hope will be broadcast to all goblin squad members and not just carried out in secret on these forums where there's a subset of folks active on a daily basis) I do have a couple of things to say which I sincerely hope some of you will read and take to heart.

First off, no matter how much you think you want the game to happen and be good, there are others whose opinions you do not agree with who want it just as much or more. The fact of the matter is that on these forums the "toe the line" folks are over-represented. In the past that might have meant I took up residence as the "opposition party" but I simply don't have time for that beyond the short burst I've delivered in the past day.

Secondly, all you folks who live and breathe the atmosphere here: your displays of arrogance and intolerance of new faces is going to damage the game. I've seen in just a single day dozens of slams delivered to people coming in as a result of the Kickstarter campaign. Expectations that people will have read all the blogs (I have, coincidentally, read the majority of them . . . but that's NOT typical) and will thus know absolutely everything and if they do not, well, they're to be crucified.

Third, every time you try to hush a dissenting voice you don't necessarily get closer to a better product. You probably will get a more homogenized one though. Remember that as crowdforging starts.

For those of you with social problems (a few of the most rabid of fanboy voices here clearly lack the ability to turn a phrase without sounding like an ass) I'd strongly suggest that you read every post three times before committing it. Put yourself in the shoes of the person you are writing to. Consider if the way in which you are quoting them and the words you are using to respond to them are really the way in which you personally would appreciate hearing things. Because honestly, most people aren't as thick-skinned as I am. They're unlikely to give back what you've dealt out. They'll simply pack up and leave.

And that's not what the game needs.

See you all in due course.

-Mathew/Corwynn

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