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As the guy who asked the original question I am still amazed how good this thread has been. Thanks for everybody who has responded. In case you are interested I decided to keep playing dnd with my friends. None are Christian but can be spiritual. I do stay away from the demon and devil stuff. Have a great weekend whether you are a believer or not.
As the guy who asked the original question I am still amazed how good this thread has been. Thanks for everybody who has responded. In case you are interested I decided to keep playing dnd with my friends. None are Christian but can be spiritual. I do stay away from the demon and devil stuff. Have a great weekend whether you are a believer or not.
Hope it works out well for you. We all have different comfort levels (that's not really a religion-exclusive), but as long as your gaming group are all on the same page, it shouldn't be an issue.
To quote the Human Torch: Game on!
In all honesty I do think there is some chance that role playing games can cause problems for the fundamentally religious, but probably not for the reasons obvious on the surface.
Many forms of religion tend to insulate themselves from criticism. It is blasphemy/heresy to even entertain the thought. However, in this game you are free to constantly imagine and criticize divinity as much as any other aspect of the game. This invariably leads to the inadvertent criticism of actual religions when certain things just don't add up. One case in point.
I personally don't think this is a bad thing, but I do think it is bad for religion.
As the guy who asked the original question I am still amazed how good this thread has been. Thanks for everybody who has responded. In case you are interested I decided to keep playing dnd with my friends. None are Christian but can be spiritual. I do stay away from the demon and devil stuff. Have a great weekend whether you are a believer or not.
Have fun!
I'm really glad you decided to go with it. It's been a lot of fun for me and my friends (the majority of whom are Christian). I hope it turns out to be for you guys, too! :)
Has this thread been resurrected?
EDIT: It appears so. : /
fify
Negative Level? What is that?
Maybe it was true res?
Actually, the thread was reincarnated and is now about why paladins are horrible and no one should play one.
My goblin paladin, Doodlebug Anklebiter, was awesome.
Best character I ever had, even if he ended up both a werewolf and a vampire.
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Negative Level? What is that?The subject of the spell gains one permanent negative level when it is raised, just as if it had been hit by an energy-draining creature.
Ahhh... silly me I missed the obvious reference.
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If your pastor disapproves of you pretending to be a paladin of Iomedae and killing orcs for experience points, why not tell him you're a Nazirite serving YHWH and slaying Philistines for their foreskins?
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The old grizzled mercenaries sat around the tables quietly drinking what passed for ale in these parts.
That was until a rookie brought up the Foreskin war.
All shuddered except one enraged veteran, who took the rookie outside and beat him unconscious with a bucket.
There's a word for massive protests all over the world... circumagitation.
As the guy who asked the original question I am still amazed how good this thread has been. Thanks for everybody who has responded. In case you are interested I decided to keep playing dnd with my friends. None are Christian but can be spiritual. I do stay away from the demon and devil stuff. Have a great weekend whether you are a believer or not.
That's excellent news, Nick.
Best of lucks with the campaign!
Thanks klaus for the encouragement
For the dice gods!
Wait, this thread is still around?
Wait, this thread is still around?
Yes. And it had a happy outcome.
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If the OP is still reading this, then I would just like to say this:
In my experience, Christians play Pathfinder the same way that everyone else does: with pencil, paper, and dice.
I am not Christian (I'm a reformed Methodist who found Wicca), but my wife and many of my friends are. None of them have any problems with RPGs. My family are all Christian. None of them have any problem with RPGs. I have known Christians who play (you should pardon the pun) religiously. I have known religious leaders who play (including both Christian and Jewish).
Fact is, it is a game, and I believe that most everyone except Jack Chick and Pat Robertson understand this.
I don't recall that Jesus ever spoke out against acting or role-play. The magic spells in Pathfinder/D&D don't work; they aren't real! If you need further proof, just look here.
(Anyone who fails to see the humor in that link needs to have a doctor check them over. You're probably suffering from muggle-itis.)
Thanks whtknt for the kind words. Thanks Trinite also. As I have said good discussion all around and it helped with the initial dilemma. Now just to find some more people in the Essex area to play with.
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I don't recall that Jesus ever spoke out against acting or role-play. The magic spells in Pathfinder/D&D don't work; they aren't real! If you need further proof, just look here.
(Anyone who fails to see the humor in that link needs to have a doctor check them over. You're probably suffering from muggle-itis.)
Likewise, the game is designed to reward violent actions. That is not to say that it can not be played other ways, but the game itself is really designed to do. It is designed so that players are attacked (or attack others), beat or kill them, take their stuff, and grow wiser in the process and ability to continue to do so. This is not only a religious issue (for some people), but a personal one for others who might not follow any particular faith, and is also not just for Christians and Jews. Many faiths teach concepts of violence/murder/theft/etc. . . is wrong/last resort/not acceptable behavior, and for some people, even pretending or playing as another fictional person just leads to an undesired temptation for them out of game. Similar to how some people that do not like horror, gore, or violence, even if they can realize that it's just a movie or fun, will avoid watching certain movies or shows to avoid feeling uncomfortable.
In a lot of ways, it's more dependent upon how the game portrays and enables different aspects of the game, as well as ho individual groups focus on different aspects. For example, in the World of Darkness, the actual real truth of things is never revealed, leaving many possibilities for if G-d does or does not exist, in addition to what other gods, demons, lack of gods, or other faiths might also exist, and all be true at the same time. In most D&D settings, people know, as fact that the gods do exist. They come down and occasionally do things, they grant spells to some of their followers, and they have a direct hand in both the history and mythology of the worlds. There is no concept of faith, but at the same time, for the players, it's basically fact that they are (mostly) required to accept. A group can, for instance strongly downplay this, either casting the gods more into the roles of powerful angels, or sweeping them under the rug and having priests and champions of "the light", "justice", "the powers of heaven", or "goodness".
Or make it a point to play the game so that fighting and killing is an absolute last resort and will generally have a great deal of socio-political ramifications, (the town doesn't care that the guy that attacked is Evil, it's still wrong to kill them). They can avoid things like interacting with Demons and Devils, particularly in any not-strictly-evil or unquestionably wrong capacity. For many religious people, there is no middle ground, no greater good in this sort of thing. Period. The idea of saving 20 people by A.) putting their souls at risk (and also very much damning/risking your own) as well as B.) being tempted by the enemy while at the same to granting them another foothold to grow stronger and damn others is unquestionably wrong, and will never be worth it, even if the story, in game depends on it. That is how their understanding of it works, and it does not matter how the DM rules it, because that is irrelevant.
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It's less that people think that spells actually work, and more that (for individuals of faith), aspects of RPG's have some things that are (spiritually and behaviorally speaking), issues.
You basically just said that the issue is that there are issues.
Even understanding that it is just a game and an expression of fun. For example, for (some) Jews and Christians, the fact that most settings and base assumptions (Core game) are set in a world where both there are multiple gods, and faith in them is largely based on what they can give you, (ie spells, Feat/Trait access, etc. . .), and also that usually the base assumption is that most people are required to follow one of those gods and also general assumption is that almost all people are faithful, but only to the presented faiths (which might not be desirable to the players out of game). The fact that it is make-believe does not really make it more desirable or palatable if they have an issue with being required to do something that they are not comfortable with even in make-believe.
They are not required to do anything. Their character probably worships a deity. But they are not their character. They are two separate things. This is make-believe. If a make-believe fantasy world manages to threaten someone's real-world faith, their real-world faith is paper thin.
Likewise, the game is designed to reward violent actions.
Under certain circumstances. Which is fine, because the Bible rewards violent actions under certain circumstances. The Church has rewarded violent actions under certain circumstances. This is nothing new, and, again, would serve as an example of paper-thin faith.
I do not so much have a problem with them following a fantasy faith, but I do have a problem in that I am required to follow an in game faith that I nether got to have any creative impact in and that I just generally do not like a great portion of. I am not comfortable with the idea of being required to play a priest of established gods, or lacking the ability to be a follower of a general, much more desirable concept, such as "the light", and ignoring those aspects of the setting I am not comfortable with.
It doesn't strike you as problematic (or, perhaps, indicative of a larger, more personal issue that you have neglected to examine) that you believe that your real-world faith dictates that you can't comfortably play a honest-to-God Cleric in a make-believe fantasy world?
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It doesn't strike you as problematic (or, perhaps, indicative of a larger, more personal issue that you have neglected to examine) that you believe that your real-world faith dictates that you can't comfortably play a honest-to-God Cleric in a make-believe fantasy world?
Not to offend the non-believers here, but these kind of comments do not help Christians, and can be very disparaging, especially to someone that may in fact, be questioning their faith. Christianity is a deeply personal journey between Christ and the believer; each person's walk with Christ is different, and what one Christian finds to be a stumbling block to their faith, another Christian does not. And a common stumbling block to a Christian's faith is role playing. This may be silly for a non-believer, but to essentially point and laugh at something we Christian's take very seriously is not very productive...
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How?
The same way you watch day time television, or go to Starbucks, or read a Harry Potter book. You just do. None of these things should conflict with your faith.
When I was ~14 my mom brought my church's pastor in for an intervetion because she thought tabletop RPGs were a tool of the devil and taking me down a path of evil. Over about a half an hour she described the hobby in extreme detail. After she was done she looked to Pastor Verny expecting some righteous vindication.
He responded something like this:
Pastor: Is he doing drugs?
Mom: No.
Pastor: Is he hanging out with the wrong crowd?
Mom: No.
Pastor: How are his grades?
Mom: Great.
Pastor: Is he doing his chores?
Mom: Yes.
Pastor: Then what's the problem?
Mom: I... He... Nothing I guess.
How?
The same way you watch day time television, or go to Starbucks, or read a Harry Potter book. You just do. None of these things should conflict with your faith.
You'd be surprised by how many think that the whole Harry Potter thing is the tool of the Devil.
Yes, it's silly, but apparently there's only one book that's allowed to contain unicorns, zombies, devils, giants and other monsters.