I meant without upsetting them (IE, becoming unfriendly which is mentioned in the check as well).So to be clear, it isn't just that you want to use the skills for things beyond the scope of what the skill says it does, but you also want to be able ignore parts of the skill you find inconvenient.
This isn't a house rule how exactly?
Because I don't. Everything I did with Diplomacy is legal within the wording of the skill, not ignoring any of it, not adding to it.
It is fasicinating to me how much can be read into rules when you want to read into them, but read out of the rules when you don't...
As fascinating as you not reading them in the first place, I'm sure? But yes, tell us a story with bears and gold.
It is fasicinating to me how much can be read into rules when you want to read into them, but read out of the rules when you don't...
Welcome to people. It's what they do.
It is fasicinating to me how much can be read into rules when you want to read into them, but read out of the rules when you don't...Welcome to people. It's what they do.
The thing that amuses me is that if he's referring to Diplomacy (I have a sneaking suspicion!) that he may wish to read it veeeeerrry caaaaarefully, and then check his dictionary. He might discover that I didn't do anything outside of the skill. Or, he might not. Who knows? :)
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It is fasicinating to me how much can be read into rules when you want to read into them, but read out of the rules when you don't...As fascinating as you not reading them in the first place, I'm sure? But yes, tell us a story with bears and gold.
Tell me how Madeline Albright and Kofi Annan used their mad diplomacy skills to get modeling contracts.
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The thing that amuses me is that if he's referring to Diplomacy (I have a sneaking suspicion!) that he may wish to read it veeeeerrry caaaaarefully, and then check his dictionary. He might discover that I didn't do anything outside of the skill. Or, he might not. Who knows? :)It is fasicinating to me how much can be read into rules when you want to read into them, but read out of the rules when you don't...Welcome to people. It's what they do.
Oh I have, and I linked it to you, and if you want me to do it again feel free to make a thread so this ongoing derail can instead be a 'rail'.
Tell me how Madeline Albright and Kofi Annan used their mad diplomacy skills to get modeling contracts.It is fasicinating to me how much can be read into rules when you want to read into them, but read out of the rules when you don't...As fascinating as you not reading them in the first place, I'm sure? But yes, tell us a story with bears and gold.
I would imagine they would need Profession (Model) for that. Or maybe Perform?
I could tell you about how that fat loveable bastard Benjamin Franklin smooched all the ladies though. Ah, good ol' Ben.
He was very charismatic by all accounts.
And not at all pretty, which seems like what you were implying with Madaline and Kofi. Though Kofi bears a striking resemblance to Morgan Freeman with his smile, so maybe he could be a model. Dunno. Morgan Freeman is a sexy beast of a man, but that might be due to his really awesome speaking ability affecting my judgment.
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And as I've said over and over to your strawman, charimsa governs personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance. Meaning anyone of these features could be low so long as the sum of them is quite high.
Being diplomatic and being charismatic aren't the same. If they were, they would be interchangable.
"Morgan Freeman oozes charisma. So hot."
"Morgan Freeman oozes diplomacy. So hot."
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Ciretose, we know you hate Ashiel and his/her logic with a passion but you're going nowhere with this.
I checked those examples Ashiel brought up and as a DM I'd allow them all at my table, and why you wouldn't is beyond me.
Either the rules are flawed in your eyes, or Ashiel is totally right on this. I'd say the former is more true through your interpretation.
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Someone who is consistently successful in influencing others is SEEN as charismatic.
Just like someone who baffles others with his amazing math skills will be seen as intelligent.
Anything that can be improved by applying yourself is a combination your basic talent, and your obtained skill. I presume that if you look up Morgan Freeman, you'll see that he has had training in being a good actor.
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And as I've said over and over to your strawman, charimsa governs personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance. Meaning anyone of these features could be low so long as the sum of them is quite high.
Being diplomatic and being charismatic aren't the same. If they were, they would be interchangable.
"Morgan Freeman oozes charisma. So hot."
"Morgan Freeman oozes diplomacy. So hot."
Just so.
Coffee Anan oozes diplomacy, but he isn't all that charismatic. Coffee Anan's diplomatic skill is not hamstrung by a poor charisma.
Morgan Freeman oozes charisma, and he can be diplomatic. Morgan Freeman can be diplomatic thanks to his charisma, but he isn't necessarily that skilled at it.
Someone who is consistently successful in influencing others is SEEN as charismatic.
Just like someone who baffles others with his amazing math skills will be seen as intelligent.
Anything that can be improved by applying yourself is a combination your basic talent, and your obtained skill. I presume that if you look up Morgan Freeman, you'll see that he has had training in being a good actor.
Indeed. I love Morgan Freeman as an actor. He is a well spoken man. I think that is part of his charm. He theoretically doesn't look any more special than anyone else, but to hear him speak and suddenly he's the coolest guy on the block. I mean, just check it out.
In this scene he just looks like a guy behind a desk. But when he speaks, lookout. :P
Being well spoken well is not the same as being diplomatic.
There is cross over in the skill set (hence the skill boost from charisma) but it isn't the same thing in the same way that being well spoken can make you more intimidating, but being well spoken isn't the same as being intimidating.
It is part of it. And in a system that does not have a mechanic for measuring any interaction beyond the existing skills, the norm in adventure paths so far has been to read more into the skills rather than less.
And being well spoken actually is not equal to being intimidating. But someone who is well spoken will have an easier time to be intimidating. And someone who is intimidating will have the listener's full attention.
And being well spoken is something you hone. You add to your vocabulary, and choose words that succinctly conveys your intention, based on the perceived level of understanding of the recipient. A disposition towards effective vocalization and good confidence helps, but ultimately, it is not a characteristic, but a set of skills. Obtained over a long- *sigh* No, I just cannot commit myself to that Taken joke.
But the point should be evident.
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It does have a mechanic. That mechanic is charisma. The easier time being diplomatic or intimidating from being well spoken comes from the charisma modifier, not in-spite of it.
But being intimidating or diplomatic doesn't make you charismatic any more than climbing well makes you strong. It means you have trained yourself to be better at a specific thing.
When you expand what a thing does beyond what is written, you give to much emphasis to it. Occasionally can you expand beyond, sure. But this seems to be more a discussion of "most of the time" rather than "rarely".
Saying it is unfair you can't be charismatic because you have a low charisma score is like saying it is unfair you can't lift things because you have a low strength score.
Unlike strength, charisma cannot be measured. There is no intrinsic thing you can do with the stat apart from modify skills, leadership and spell/class abilities.
With strength, you can lift things and hit things.
With dexterity, you can dodge things and shoot things.
With constitution you can run longer and so forth.
With intelligence you get more skill points, allowing for a broader skill set.
With wisdom, you can resist attacks on the mind.
Charisma... does jack poop apart from the aforementioned.
Personally I think Charisma models Charisma pretty darn well based on what it modifies and how it does so.
Personally I think Charisma models Charisma pretty darn well based on what it modifies and how it does so.
Oh, I agree. But the argument is that there is no table or point of reference apart from modifying class abilities and skills. Having Str 14 means you can lift twice of what a Str 10 character can. Having Cha 14 is simply 2 higher in modifiers on skills and DCs.
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Can I just that we need to remember that these skills are very much simplified in terms as to what goes on in the real world. You can have the most Charismatic person on the planet speaking at a peace talk but if he doesn't have the right information to go with it then you get no where.
Personally I think Charisma models Charisma pretty darn well based on what it modifies and how it does so.Oh, I agree. But the argument is that there is no table or point of reference apart from modifying class abilities and skills. Having Str 14 means you can lift twice of what a Str 10 character can. Having Cha 14 is simply 2 higher in modifiers on skills and DCs.
Agreed sir. Mental statistics are more nebulous than physical ones, and that's fair I think. We can easily see how much someone can lift in reality. We still don't understand the mind in all its wonders. It's a complex beast.
Agreed sir. Mental statistics are more nebulous than physical ones, and that's fair I think. We can easily see how much someone can lift in reality. We still don't understand the mind in all its wonders. It's a complex beast.Personally I think Charisma models Charisma pretty darn well based on what it modifies and how it does so.Oh, I agree. But the argument is that there is no table or point of reference apart from modifying class abilities and skills. Having Str 14 means you can lift twice of what a Str 10 character can. Having Cha 14 is simply 2 higher in modifiers on skills and DCs.Even physical stats are pretty nebulous. And very tied to each other and to the physical skills.
For example, I rock climb. The first thing you notice when you start or watching new people is that strength helps a lot at first, which makes sense if you consider it a strength based skill. But when you practice, one of the first things you do is build muscle. Are you improving your climbing skill or your base stat? As you get better, strength stays important, but becomes more focused, first grip strength and then core strength. At the same time balance and awareness of body positioning become more important as does intellectual knowledge of technique.
Overall conditioning remains important mostly for longer climbs.The same kind of thing is true of most physical activities. Getting better at them involves muscle building, muscle memory, technique and often parts of dexterity: speed, balance whatever.
Good points and agreed on all counts. This is why I try to evaluate a character not on 6 raw baseline statistics which are little more than a starting point for a character, but the whole package based on what someone can and can not do.
Wonderfully illustrated points, TheJeff. :)
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Unlike strength, charisma cannot be measured. There is no intrinsic thing you can do with the stat apart from modify skills, leadership and spell/class abilities.
It can measured as easily as intelligence or wisdom. It is a mental statistic.
Wisdom is not just "resisting attacks on the mind" and Intelligence is not just about "more skills" as you put it.
The fact is you don't want Charisma to govern what it governs because that makes it a more difficult thing to choose as a dump stat.
Which in my opinion is a good thing.
I never understood why a mental stat is supposed to govern appearance.
I never understood why a mental stat is supposed to govern appearance.I never understood how a mental slot governs vision. But it does.
Good point.
I never understood why a mental stat is supposed to govern appearance.
Because charisma is not about looks. It is about your ability socialise, your 'social intelligence' and the force of personality you exude. Somebody with a low charisma can be very attractive, but they do not exploit it, are quiet, have unsociable habits, stammer, don't put their point across etc.
I never understood why a mental stat is supposed to govern appearance.I never understood how a mental slot governs vision. But it does.
Because it's about how much attention you pay to your surroundings and how you process that information intuitively without having to think about it.
I think the perception skill is less about your actual vision and more about how good you are at noticing details.
Actually, I have to say that one thing I dislike about the whole point buy system is that you never actually see characters with low stats. "7" isn't low; anywhere from 7-11 is basically average. So you never see characters who are dumb, or who aren't wise, or who are frail, or physically feeble, or have really poor social skills.
The difference between a character with a 7 charisma and a character with 10 charisma (your normal, average guy) are pretty subtle unless you spend a lot of time with them. Think about it; it's only a -2 to diplomacy, so it only affects how people react to you (how often you fail a DC check) about 10% of the time. That is not a huge difference, and with a little practice in diplomacy you can easily make up for it.
And that's kind of a shame. It can be fun to play as someone with absolutely no wisdom, or with the interpersonal skills of Sheldon from the show The Big Bang Theory, but you never see that anymore because you just don't see characters with 3 in a stat anymore.
Racial modifiers can go a long way towards getting the sort of character you want to represent- I once played a vishkanya paladin with a wisdom score of 5.
Smart girl, but she always seemed to miss the obvious or make unfortunate mistakes. Had someone hitting on her in a bar for about half an hour before she realized what was going on, much to said person's chagrin.
Unlike strength, charisma cannot be measured. There is no intrinsic thing you can do with the stat apart from modify skills, leadership and spell/class abilities.It can measured as easily as intelligence or wisdom. It is a mental statistic.
Wisdom is not just "resisting attacks on the mind" and Intelligence is not just about "more skills" as you put it.
The fact is you don't want Charisma to govern what it governs because that makes it a more difficult thing to choose as a dump stat.
Which in my opinion is a good thing.
different cultures have different standards of what is and isn't attractive. not all traits can be defined as exclusively physical or mental.
as a few Golarion examples
a Mwangi male wants a wife who can survive the harsh jungle life, contribute to the tribe, and can perform at least simple athletic rituals reliably.
a Chelexian Noble wants a spouse who they can bend to thier will and will not oppose them. spouses showing signs of some form of weakness are chosen. whether said spouse is small framed, sickly of the body in some way, lesser in education, or just plain shy
a Keleshite Princess wants a man who has the funds to spoil her and cater to every last desire she has. she is shallow and prefers money above all else.
a Tian Samurai wants a wife whom is shorter than he, so he feels empowered, though he wants her to be able to fend off common riffraff in self defense, he doesn't wish to feel outclassed by her, he also wants a trustworthy and honest woman, who won't stab him in his sleep, won't twist his words for the worse, and won't cheat on him. if her body is thin as a twig and straight as a pole, she has earned bonus points with said samurai.
a Varisian Vagabond wants a partner whose Wanderlust rivals theirs, whom will not rat them out, is as free spirited as they, can protect their self when they get into trouble, can assist their swindling schemes, and has a taste for as many vibrant and flashy colors and patterns as they.
I never understood why a mental stat is supposed to govern appearance.Because charisma is not about looks. It is about your ability socialise, your 'social intelligence' and the force of personality you exude. Somebody with a low charisma can be very attractive, but they do not exploit it, are quiet, have unsociable habits, stammer, don't put their point across etc.
I know, but according to the charisma description in the CRB it governs appearance in addition to those things.
I know, but according to the charisma description in the CRB it governs appearance in addition to those things.I never understood why a mental stat is supposed to govern appearance.Because charisma is not about looks. It is about your ability socialise, your 'social intelligence' and the force of personality you exude. Somebody with a low charisma can be very attractive, but they do not exploit it, are quiet, have unsociable habits, stammer, don't put their point across etc.
appearance? i think that should be based on the 3 physical scores.
they might be subverted sometimes. and these aren't the only valid examples.
a character with a low constitution might usually appear to be a sickly pale due to thier predominaently sedentary lifestyle, and may be either morbidly obese, or fatally emaciated. depending on whether or not they eat.
a character with a high constitution is usually healthier, and not as washed out looking
a character with a low strength, is usually either mostly flabby, or a twig begging to be broken.
a character with high strength is usually either be well toned and refined, bulky and large, or extremely dense (as in muscle density)
a low dexterity character might usually be moving with a limp, have bad motor skills or have slow reflexes. these traits aren't known until witnessed
a high dexterity character would usually have the opposite, moving with grace and refinement, having excellent motor skills, and amazing reflexes, a high dexterity character might even be double jointed in some areas.
a strong and agile character with a reasonable relative constitution; for example might be muscular, yet lean, and built like something akin to bruce lee.
while a strong and hearty character without much dexterity, would; for example; be built like a lumbering giant akin to an ogre or troll. although not neccessarily as large in scale.
Oh dear. I just realized that my last post might have come across as arguing for charisma-as-appearance while I was actually trying to point out a bit in the rules that doesn't make sense.
I like vuron's take on the subject.Seems pretty reasonable to me too. Just worried that it encourages overspecialization. It's really easy to really pump a skill like it was no big deal, and if someone told me my Fighters could use Intimidate (even at something big like a -5) in place of Diplomacy I'd probably be hard pressed to do otherwise. I mean I get +3 from class skill, and I can take a feat that gives me Strength to Intimidate (easily outclassing the penalty by that alone), then masterwork tool (like scary armor dressings), and well hell, I'd feel like a bard using versatile performance.
Kind of rains on versatile performance's parade as well. :(
True. It's gotta be somewhat limited, so you don't obsolete other skills; but I think it'd be okay to let the fighter use Intimidate some times... Maybe in a mercenary camp, where people listen to demonstration of courage and strength more than good argumentations and nice words.
Of course, this could simply be a situational bonus; but letting Fighter use Intimidate increases his chance of success and, of course, the player's fun.
It'd not be appropriate when negotiating with the king, for example, but in the right context, it could be fun.
I like vuron's take on the subject.Seems pretty reasonable to me too. Just worried that it encourages overspecialization. It's really easy to really pump a skill like it was no big deal, and if someone told me my Fighters could use Intimidate (even at something big like a -5) in place of Diplomacy I'd probably be hard pressed to do otherwise. I mean I get +3 from class skill, and I can take a feat that gives me Strength to Intimidate (easily outclassing the penalty by that alone), then masterwork tool (like scary armor dressings), and well hell, I'd feel like a bard using versatile performance.
Kind of rains on versatile performance's parade as well. :(
True. It's gotta be somewhat limited, so you don't obsolete other skills; but I think it'd be okay to let the fighter use Intimidate some times... Maybe in a mercenary camp, hwere people listen to demonstration of courage and strength more than good argumentations and nice words.
Of course, this could simply be a situational bonus; but letting Fighter use Intimidate increases his chance of success and, of course, the player's fun.
It'd not be appropriate when negotiating with the king, for example, but in the right context, it could be fun.
intimidate need not be a threatening word, a harsh glare or sadistic smile works just as well.
intimidate need not be a threatening word, a harsh glare or sadistic smile works just as well.I like vuron's take on the subject.Seems pretty reasonable to me too. Just worried that it encourages overspecialization. It's really easy to really pump a skill like it was no big deal, and if someone told me my Fighters could use Intimidate (even at something big like a -5) in place of Diplomacy I'd probably be hard pressed to do otherwise. I mean I get +3 from class skill, and I can take a feat that gives me Strength to Intimidate (easily outclassing the penalty by that alone), then masterwork tool (like scary armor dressings), and well hell, I'd feel like a bard using versatile performance.
Kind of rains on versatile performance's parade as well. :(
True. It's gotta be somewhat limited, so you don't obsolete other skills; but I think it'd be okay to let the fighter use Intimidate some times... Maybe in a mercenary camp, hwere people listen to demonstration of courage and strength more than good argumentations and nice words.
Of course, this could simply be a situational bonus; but letting Fighter use Intimidate increases his chance of success and, of course, the player's fun.
It'd not be appropriate when negotiating with the king, for example, but in the right context, it could be fun.
Heh... Believe me, I know. My friend's Barbarian is all about creative uses of Intimidate. He and my Sorcerer have lots of fun at the expense of NPCs... Bluff, Intimidate and Diplomacy are probably my favorite skills (especially since my GM lets me use Bluff to notice when someone is lying, which makes sense, IMO). Acrobatics and Sleight of Hand are quite entertaining too, but for very different reasons.
I was mentioning the possibility of occasionally use on skill in place of another, in this case, Intimidate instead of Diplomacy. It's not something that should be always possible, much less reliable, but in some situations, I'd let the fighter do it.
Huh... Suddenly I feel the urge to play a Ninja who focus on fun and creative uses of Sleight of Hand... I suppose it'd be a lot like this.
Sleight of hand can also be used as a form of stage performance, similar to card tricks, or general party tricks a birthday magician would be capable of.
Acrobatics can be used for stuff like break dancing, circus performances, and similar stuff. like Capoeira demonstrations
True. It's gotta be somewhat limited, so you don't obsolete other skills; but I think it'd be okay to let the fighter use Intimidate some times... Maybe in a mercenary camp, where people listen to demonstration of courage and strength more than good argumentations and nice words.
Of course, this could simply be a situational bonus; but letting Fighter use Intimidate increases his chance of success and, of course, the player's fun.
It'd not be appropriate when negotiating with the king, for example, but in the right context, it could be fun.
I think in an adventure path (I forget which one, someone mentioned it on the boards a while back) it allowed people to make I think an Intimidate check to garner the attention of people before addressing them or something like that.
On the Subject of Appearance
Appearance is not the same thing as physical attractiveness. Appearance by definition is actually much different and much more akin to the traits Charisma presents. Appearance is having a good poker face, expressing what you want to portray even if it is not what you do. Someone who is very nervous or scared but intentionally doesn't show it is someone who projects a strong appearance. Someone who wants to be funny may be able to inflect things merely by adjusting their outward mannerisms to achieve the benefit they desire.
Check it out.
ap·pear·ance
[uh-peer-uhns] Show IPA
noun
1. the act or fact of appearing, as to the eye or mind or before the public: the unannounced appearance of dinner guests; the last appearance of Caruso in Aïda; her first appearance at a stockholders' meeting.
2. the state, condition, manner, or style in which a person or object appears; outward look or aspect: a table of antique appearance; a man of noble appearance.
3. outward show or seeming; semblance: to avoid the appearance of coveting an honor.
4. Law . the coming into court of either party to a suit or action.
5. appearances, outward impressions, indications, or circumstances: By all appearances, he enjoyed himself.
6. Philosophy . the sensory, or phenomenal, aspect of existence to an observer.
7. Archaic . an apparition.
Appearance is probably not what you think it means. :)
I think in an adventure path (I forget which one, someone mentioned it on the boards a while back) it allowed people to make I think an Intimidate check to garner the attention of people before addressing them or something like thatTrue. It's gotta be somewhat limited, so you don't obsolete other skills; but I think it'd be okay to let the fighter use Intimidate some times... Maybe in a mercenary camp, where people listen to demonstration of courage and strength more than good argumentations and nice words.
Of course, this could simply be a situational bonus; but letting Fighter use Intimidate increases his chance of success and, of course, the player's fun.
It'd not be appropriate when negotiating with the king, for example, but in the right context, it could be fun.
That seems rather obvious to me. Who never had a school teacher hit the desk with a ruler to make the students pay attention to her? Who never saw a movie where one of the characters, tired of listening to dozens of people arguing about a problem without reaching any decision, punches the table and says something like "SHUT UP AND LISTEN TO ME! THIS IS HOW WE GONNA DO IT...". Or a police officer firing his gun at the sky to gather everyone's attention and try to reestabilish order to a chaotic and/or violent enviorment (like a riot)?
Intimidate is more versatile than people realize. That's why it's one of my favorite skills... ^^
Unlike strength, charisma cannot be measured. There is no intrinsic thing you can do with the stat apart from modify skills, leadership and spell/class abilities.It can measured as easily as intelligence or wisdom. It is a mental statistic.
Wisdom is not just "resisting attacks on the mind" and Intelligence is not just about "more skills" as you put it.
The fact is you don't want Charisma to govern what it governs because that makes it a more difficult thing to choose as a dump stat.
Which in my opinion is a good thing.
I never said it was "just" anything. Int modifies skills, spell DCs and class abilities for certain classes. The same is true with wisdom. But unlike Charisma, there is a STATIC thing those two do, which cannot be modified with skills. See the difference? Will saves cannot be improved by sinking skill-points into it. And barring racial/class stuff, you cannot get more skill-points per level through any other means than more intelligence.
Charisma breaks the mold by not INHERENTLY doing anything except modify things that are not universal. If you disregard skills, class features and the leadership feat, there is mechanically no difference between someone with Charisma 3 and Charisma 9001.
Back in 2e AD&D, it inherently governed reaction modifier, loyalty base and max # of followers, without sinking anything into it whatsoever. That is no longer the case.
Short of house-rules, Charisma itself does nothing except modify skills and class abilities.
Charisma breaks the mold by not INHERENTLY doing anything except modify things that are not universal. If you disregard skills, class features and the leadership feat, there is mechanically no difference between someone with Charisma 3 and Charisma 9001.
I see what you did thar. :B
Tell me how Madeline Albright and Kofi Annan used their mad diplomacy skills to get modeling contracts.It is fasicinating to me how much can be read into rules when you want to read into them, but read out of the rules when you don't...As fascinating as you not reading them in the first place, I'm sure? But yes, tell us a story with bears and gold.
I want some hot Kofi!
The bluff check for seduction fits so perfectly with the idea of debonair scoundrels getting the lady. Using those looks and a glance promising more, along with maybe a few sweet words to close the deal. ; )
Instead of hammering out a contract or treaty. :|
Bluff for sed, always made sense for every group I've been in, across states and territories.
Agreed sir. Mental statistics are more nebulous than physical ones, and that's fair I think. We can easily see how much someone can lift in reality. We still don't understand the mind in all its wonders. It's a complex beast.Personally I think Charisma models Charisma pretty darn well based on what it modifies and how it does so.Oh, I agree. But the argument is that there is no table or point of reference apart from modifying class abilities and skills. Having Str 14 means you can lift twice of what a Str 10 character can. Having Cha 14 is simply 2 higher in modifiers on skills and DCs.Even physical stats are pretty nebulous. And very tied to each other and to the physical skills.
For example, I rock climb. The first thing you notice when you start or watching new people is that strength helps a lot at first, which makes sense if you consider it a strength based skill. But when you practice, one of the first things you do is build muscle. Are you improving your climbing skill or your base stat? As you get better, strength stays important, but becomes more focused, first grip strength and then core strength. At the same time balance and awareness of body positioning become more important as does intellectual knowledge of technique.
Overall conditioning remains important mostly for longer climbs.The same kind of thing is true of most physical activities. Getting better at them involves muscle building, muscle memory, technique and often parts of dexterity: speed, balance whatever.
Good points. Yeah, I saw this come out really well once. Pool, people doing laps. Fat guy of about 50 gets into the pool. I'm doing my usual think (I don't swim much), he starts accelerating. He just gets faster and faster as he gets into his rhythm, I tire myself out trying to keep up, and I can't come close to do it (I am fit, but not practiced in swimming). His form was superb. He had probably been swimming for decades. His body didn't look so crash hot, no 18s, but boy could he swim.
Intimidate is more versatile than people realize. That's why it's one of my favorite skills... ^^
Rick in the walking dead. Threatens people, makes tough choices. People don't like him much (except the hillbilly who is entertained by his antics, and Rick never tries an intimidate on him directly). Then thy survive, and the collective opinion of him rises. Then it gets hard again and he gets all growly. And so on and so on.
I have a 3.5 samurai character in the works that I hope to use soon, going to try and get a lot out of that intim for sure, maybe I will be a convert.
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Monk(Qing Gong) 6/Paladin 8/Ranger 1 (Aasimar) “Aston the Hunter”
Str: 18
Dex: 20
Con: 16
Int: 08
Wis: 23
Cha: 20
HP: 6d8 + 18
8d10 + 24
1d10 + 3
AC: 32 (35 with Barkskin) (39 with Monk's Dodge from Ki)
Touch: 32
Flat Footed: 26 (29 with Barkskin)
Fort: +25
Ref: + 23
Will: + 26
Spd: 50
Init: + 5
Traits: Quain Martial Artist,(Still deciding which trait to take)
Feats: Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), Weapon Finesse, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Power Attack, Dragon Style, Improved Natural Attack, Combat Reflexes, Cosmopolitan, Skill Focus (UMD)
Attack: +22/+22/+17/+12 2d8 + 8 (Unarmed Strike)
Attack: (Divine Bond + Favored Enemy + Bane + Smite + Power Attack + Divine Favor) +35/+35/+30/+25 2d8 + 25 + 2d6 vs (Damage increases to 2d8 + 33 + 2d6 vs Undead, Evil dragons, or evil outsiders)(Add an extra +2 to damage on the first attack when using Dragon Style)
With Divine Bond we can drop one of the enhancements to add flaming or defending, or drop both enhancements to add Holy, Flaming Burst, or Disruption.
Monk 6th: Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist: DC 19 8/day, Evasion, Fast Movement, Maneuver Training, Still Mind, Ki Pool (Magic), Ki Points 9, Ki Powers (Barkskin and True Strike)
Paladin 8th: Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 3/day, Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Mercy, Channel Positive Energy, Divine Bond, Aura of Resolve, Spells 3 1st / 2 2nd.
Ranger 1: 1st Favored Enemy, Track, Wild Empathy.
Aasimar: Native Outsiders, Darkvision 60ft, Daylight 1/day, Celestial Resistance: Acid, Cold, and Elec 5, Skilled.
Skills: Acrobatics: +12, Perception: +18 (+20 vs Favored Enemy), Sense Motive: +8(+10 vs Favored Enemy) , Stealth: +15 , Survival: +16 (+17 using Track)(+19 Tracking Favored Enemy) , Bluff: +7 , Use Magic Device: +21.
Items: Belt of Physical Perfection + 4, Headband of Mental Prowess + 4, Amulet of Mighty Fists +3 (Bane Enchantment), Monk’s Robe, Ring of Protection + 4, Bracers of Armor + 4, Cloak of Resistance + 4, Boots of Elvenkind.
I’m not too happy with my skill totals but the important skills will hit the DC’s. I’m also not too sure about Skill Focus and Cosmopolitan. I took those two for UMD in which relies on being able to find items to use because I didn’t have enough gold left to buy a wand or two.
This is a specialty build that focuses on a special type of creature but overall I do like it. I may tweak it a bit more before I’m satisfied.
Edit: Made some changes.