Because as a barbarian; i can do any of the following
A; remove my loin cloth and use it as a slingshot
B; ride my Roc into combat with my lance and pierce the heavens
C; pick up a school bus and hurl it
D; punt the gnome like a football
E; propel myself upward and leap into the sky
Because my Battle Oracle preffers to smoke his pipe peacefully in total cover while my Archer Fighter/Ranger fires 5 arrows with gravity bow and buffs cast on it.
Also known as:
No point in rolling, it'll just slow the fight down, just let the archer's turn come faster.
Edit:
Also having a 20ft reach (lucerne hammer, enlarge, lunge), and able to cast Oracle's Burden (Blind).
And you know, not just when the enemy is flying, but what if the enemy is on top of a roof? A high cliff? A Chasm separates you? A magic barrier? a fire? difficult terrain? on top of a wall, or behind some sort of fortification?
Then they can probably outshoot me anyway.
You don't see soldiers standing valiantly in the kill zone getting shot even when they do have ranged weapons. They find cover and try to get in a better firing position.
Don't get me wrong carrying a ranged weapon "just in case" is great. But it's going to feel a whole lot like crap when the encounter is strictly designed with an enemy in a superior position.
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Don't get me wrong carrying a ranged weapon "just in case" is great. But it's going to feel a whole lot like crap when the encounter is strictly designed with an enemy in a superior position.
Welcome to a "real" game of Pathfinder. Sometimes you are not going to be in the best of positions and you won't always get to be optimized against every creature and situation.
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I'd like to build a new character, so please shoot at me from the air?
No, seriously, I keep on running into players without range weapons too. I don't get that. I get not focusing on ranged, (and as a player I dislike the flying monsters) but having nothing with you, just in case?
I feel so understood right now ;-)
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Because I have a better chance to hit by running, jumping, and slashing with the weapon that I am specialized in, instead of shooting a bow that I have no feats and no dex for.
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Welcome to a "real" game of Pathfinder.
Don't get me wrong carrying a ranged weapon "just in case" is great. But it's going to feel a whole lot like crap when the encounter is strictly designed with an enemy in a superior position.
Didn't know there was such a thing. IS a lot like full contact checkers?
I know Acid Splash. What foe can possibly withstand 1d3 per round?
Seriously, I tend to play wizard types. If I get a bow as part of treasure, I'll carry it up until level 5 or so, assuming it doesn't encumber me. It might get used now and then, or get loaned out to a companion.
Magic missile is better for him, but that takes a spell slot. Some enemies aren't that hard to hit, so you save your spells for the ones that are.
I've got a 1st level cleric with the fire domain, so he uses the fire bolt ranged touch SLA if that's all he can do. He's used it twice, and missed. But with a dex of 10, it's no surprise. He'd have missed by even more with a crossbow. Again, he'll keep any bow he finds, since the SLA is only good for 30'. We've only been in dungeons and close melee so far, so range hasn't been an issue (yet). He's got a sling, too, but hasn't used it.
I've never played an archer, but any fighter type I play will always have a composite longbow of the appropriate strength as soon as he can get one. Full BAB and fairly decent dex? A no-brainer.
Nothing is more frustrating than watching a monster fly (or run) away with 4 hit points left, and you have to stand there and do nothing because you have no way to affect it at range. Yeah, you probably have someone else who can totally destroy it, but what if they're down or immobilized or whatever?
As has already been pointed out, if you can't start out with a ranged weapon, slings and clubs are free, and better than nothing.
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As a GM is was shocked to discover that only one of my 6 level 2 players had a ranged weapon. I discovered this when I had them face 6 kobolds with Rapid Shot and longbows, who were on the other side of a murky-water-filled chasm that had a 10" wide platform to cross (Acrobatics DC 10). ACP really hurts melee characters with no ranged weapons. The kobolds were there as front door guards and were to flee as soon as one of them was hit, but it took a few rounds before one of them was. They loosed a lot of arrows in that time.
I like to build my casters with a positive Dex mod for AC and Reflex saves, so I tend to give them at least a light crossbow anyway. You can use that bolt to Aid Another in combat, right? Even shooting into melee at first level you need to roll 12 or above, that's not a bad buff for the front-line fighters, and I think it is better than an Acid Splash.
I like to build my casters with a positive Dex mod for AC and Reflex saves, so I tend to give them at least a light crossbow anyway. You can use that bolt to Aid Another in combat, right? Even shooting into melee at first level you need to roll 12 or above, that's not a bad buff for the front-line fighters, and I think it is better than an Acid Splash.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but no, you can't Aid Another with a ranged attack.
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.
Acid Splash makes for a nice little cantrip when you have the proper bloodline and a vile of acid to use as a focus. 1d3+3 ain't a bad ranged attack to do all day at low levels. But I consider that as 'having a ranged weapon', I supposed "attack" is the better term though.
As a GM is was shocked to discover that only one of my 6 level 2 players had a ranged weapon. I discovered this when I had them face 6 kobolds with Rapid Shot and longbows, who were on the other side of a murky-water-filled chasm that had a 10" wide platform to cross (Acrobatics DC 10). ACP really hurts melee characters with no ranged weapons. The kobolds were there as front door guards and were to flee as soon as one of them was hit, but it took a few rounds before one of them was. They loosed a lot of arrows in that time.
I like to build my casters with a positive Dex mod for AC and Reflex saves, so I tend to give them at least a light crossbow anyway. You can use that bolt to Aid Another in combat, right? Even shooting into melee at first level you need to roll 12 or above, that's not a bad buff for the front-line fighters, and I think it is better than an Acid Splash.
You can't use the Aid Another action with a ranged attack sorry.
Don't get me wrong carrying a ranged weapon "just in case" is great. But it's going to feel a whole lot like crap when the encounter is strictly designed with an enemy in a superior position.Welcome to a "real" game of Pathfinder. Sometimes you are not going to be in the best of positions and you won't always get to be optimized against every creature and situation.
Because I have a better chance to hit by running, jumping, and slashing with the weapon that I am specialized in, instead of shooting a bow that I have no feats and no dex for.You actually make no dex fighters?
So, now that you've posted a couple of reasons why somebody doesn't carry a ranged weapon, are you just going to be spending the rest of the thread judging other people's play styles?
More on topic:
... I made sure I can fly to those far away guys via potions or other magic.
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Said in a voice like Beavis: "Um... because my jump check is so high it's almost like flying?" To be fair he was making a joke, it was really high, and he was playing a Thri-kreen, so... In actuality, he just plain forgot.My monk actually pulled this off against a low-flying wyvern. It was one of those brief "Hey, monks really CAN do something!" moments all monk players get now and then before reality crushes their dreams.
ive grappled a huge dragon out of the air, that was an epic momment on the table.
"the dragon turns for another pass of napalm straffing"
"i delay until the dragon is within 50 feet"
-monk jumps hits a 63 high jump (at 25% the dc),
-provokes an aoo
-dragon misses
-monk grapples and slams the dragon to the ground
-then standard action pinns the dragon.
-teammates run up and coup de grace the dragon.
best session ever.
Hah! Epic TheSideKick! Epic!
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..I used to carry a bow like you, But I kept hitting people in the knee.
I like to build my casters with a positive Dex mod for AC and Reflex saves, so I tend to give them at least a light crossbow anyway. You can use that bolt to Aid Another in combat, right? Even shooting into melee at first level you need to roll 12 or above, that's not a bad buff for the front-line fighters, and I think it is better than an Acid Splash.Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but no, you can't Aid Another with a ranged attack.
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.
Cool, thanks for correcting and clarifying.
As a GM is was shocked to discover that only one of my 6 level 2 players had a ranged weapon. I discovered this when I had them face 6 kobolds with Rapid Shot and longbows, who were on the other side of a murky-water-filled chasm that had a 10" wide platform to cross (Acrobatics DC 10). ACP really hurts melee characters with no ranged weapons. The kobolds were there as front door guards and were to flee as soon as one of them was hit, but it took a few rounds before one of them was. They loosed a lot of arrows in that time.
I would have gone around. Or something along those lines. Maybe got the rogue or ranger to sneak across if at all possible and slit a few throats perhaps discreetly threw a few unattended bows in the swamp.
I'm not shocked by your players lack of ranged weapons as I am by their lack of thought put into the situation.
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yeah, ranged weapons are useful for WAY more than just vs. a flying enemy when you can't fly.
consider hydra's: mean dudes to get into melee with.
if you can ride away on your horse, while full attacking (at penalty) or single shotting (at no penalty),
it doesn't matter if you DPR is way lower vs. your melee, because you can keep this up forever,
with the hydra forever outside of melee range while you are doing damage to it.
even with creatures with regeneration, if the whole party is doing this, it's all contributing to counteracting the regen.
(to kill a regen creature you will usually need to apply the correct damage type, but that can be done when it's below 0hp)
...but yeah, it doesn't count as a kill unless you get all personal up in their face.
say that when you are dead after flying ranged attackers nuked you from above :-)
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I...I...<hangs head in shame>
...I forgot to buy one.
My last character...
"I don't carry a ranged weapon because everything that attacks me from range only manages to tick me off!"
Grappling synthesist. Damage reduction, fast healing, and a AC so high the bbeg had to roll a 20 to hit me. Could fly, teleport, and was faster on land than anybody but the monk. If it had ranged attacks, I usually got an attack of opportunity. This character got synthesists banned from our gaming table single handed.
Because I dropped my bow and all my arrows down a deep hole when I last made an acrobatics check.
Because I am the Dm, and if they get too cocky I just through something really scary at them to humble my PCs.
..I used to carry a bow like you, But I kept hitting people in the knee.
You just made me snork drink on my keyboard.
I cast spells, have blackened limbs that give a -4 to attack with a 7th strength and it is too heavy and too hard to use.
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... after that 'incident' involving tequila, Charm Animal, twenty-three gallons of banana pudding, and a startling interruption by a Tengu, I am forbidden to even nock an arrow on pain of death and/or a SEVERE snickering behind my back.
If I sometime run out of spells and my hexes are not enough to win a puny ranged weapon will not save me. (Scarred witchdoctor)
My witch's response too. However, she's a pacifist. She only has a "kitchen knife" to threaten
As for my Skulking Slayer Scout Rogue Half-Orc:
"I haven't gotten to it yet." or "I have yet to meet a problem that can't be solved with CHARGESNEAKATTACKGREATAXE!!"
Because with my leadership feat I took Scorpian as my cohort.
Because I have a better chance to hit by running, jumping, and slashing with the weapon that I am specialized in, instead of shooting a bow that I have no feats and no dex for.
Interesting note: In 3E, Jump was str-based, in PF it is dex-based.
But have fun with your guy who has no dex for ranged attack rolls yet manages to jump really well. :p
Yes.. but "Jump to get them" is only applicable if all your ranged enemies plan to be with in jumping distance of you. Probably shouldn't be what you are relying on!
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Yes.. but "Jump to get them" is only applicable if all your ranged enemies plan to be with in jumping distance of you. Probably shouldn't be what you are relying on!
To be fair that enemy might not expect my witches hair to grapple them out of the sky from 40ft. up.
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Because I have a better chance to hit by running, jumping, and slashing with the weapon that I am specialized in, instead of shooting a bow that I have no feats and no dex for.Interesting note: In 3E, Jump was str-based, in PF it is dex-based.
But have fun with your guy who has no dex for ranged attack rolls yet manages to jump really well. :p
I don't often play a fighter, but when I do, he maxes ranks in Acrobatics :O
Especially with what type of hair the witch is grappling with...
Remember kids, don't feed the trolls.
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Cause i cant flurry with it? ;)
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So...hungry...
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Because it misfired again and blew up in my face 4 rounds back.
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... because by the time i hit something with it, the party's elf archer has nailed everything with his arrow hose.
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Cost? A sling has a cost of —.
Encumbrance? A sling has a weight of —.
Ammo? You can use scavenged rocks, for Ghu's sake.
Just mark it down on your character sheet right now. Seriously, right now. At absolute worst, you'll simply never use it. If you ever find yourself in a situation where you need a (backup) ranged weapon with a not-horrible range increment, it'll be there, having had no negative effects on you at any point.
This, really, is where the Ultimate Equipment class kits screwed up. There should have been a sling in every one of them (with maybe an exception for the wizard, since they alone are not proficient).
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Because my parents always taught me that I risk going blind every time I shoot off my load.
Because I can fly, swim while breathing underwater, and in fact have every possible speed but a burrow speed -- and ranged weapons are not much use against burrowing foes until they emerge from underground.
Because I am an oracle of life with multiple life links up. If I am firing a ranged weapon, I am also being fired at -- and I need to do my best to avoid a sudden and unexpected loss of hit points.
Because I am a mounted halfling paladin, and my mount is really fast.
Because I was just rescued from a dungeon where I was imprisoned, and my rescuers do not have enough spare ranged weapons to go around.
Because I am a 1st level commoner who does not want to become a target -- I just want to get home and away from these maniac adventurers who are escorting me there.
My crazed little halfling barbarian has a WIS of 8 and is not known for the good choices he makes.
Not having a ranged weapon (can I throw my mini-earthbreaker?) results in a wonderful series of reactions to battle. Sometimes team mates can be tossed, sometimes he can jump, or intimidate, or run around having a fit...
No matter what...it's comic gold for entertainment, and permits the ranged characters to feel useful, because when it's down to just melee he's a buzz saw.
i dont think it is so much everyone needs a ranged weapon, but everyone needs a ranged attack.....sometimes you cant reach the enemy to melee, so firing a sling from a bit of cover may be neccessary on (rare) occassion
wizards have cantrips, some of which will be ranged, so that is fine for them
I certainly feel monsters are much more deadly if they have ranged weapons....an entangled troll able to launch a javelin will at least keep the party a bit wary for example