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Hey all.
So a weapon made of Wyroot
Source: Advanced Race Guide.
The root of the wyrwood tree has a peculiar quality. When a weapon constructed of wyroot confirms a critical hit, it absorbs some of the life force of the creature hit. The creature hit is unharmed and the wyroot weapon gains 1 life point. As a swift action, a wielder with a ki pool or an arcane pool can absorb 1 life point from the wyrwood weapon and convert it into either 1 ki point or 1 arcane pool point. Most wyroot weapons can only hold 1 life point at a time, but higher-quality wyroot does exist. The most powerful wyroot weapons can hold up to 3 life points at a time. Any unspent life points dissipate at dusk.
Wyroot can be used to construct any melee weapon made entirely of wood or a melee weapon with a wooden haft. Constructing a wyroot weapon that can hold 1 life point increases the weapon's cost by 1,000 gp, constructing one that can hold up to 2 life points increases the weapon's cost by 2,000 gp, and constructing one that can hold up to 3 life points increases the weapon's cost by 4,000 gp.
Say just the base 1k type
After the battle a magus pulls out his wyroot club and Coup de Grace someone
Coup de grace
Coup de Grace
As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace (pronounced "coo day grahs") to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target.
You automatically hit and score a critical hit. If the defender survives the damage, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. A rogue also gets her extra sneak attack damage against a helpless opponent when delivering a coup de grace.
Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents.
You can't deliver a coup de grace against a creature that is immune to critical hits. You can deliver a coup de grace against a creature with total concealment, but doing this requires two consecutive full-round actions (one to "find" the creature once you've determined what square it's in, and one to deliver the coup de grace).
Its an auto crit, so the target is unharmed and the weapon has one life point.
now he absorbs that life point and does it again, or to the next close to dead thing.
Lather, rinse, repeat?
Does this work?
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well, honestly you only need 1.
Wyroot says that the target is unharmed, so you could just hit the same guy over and over.
if you would rule that they still have to save vs the coup then yes, you may need more then one. still tho, getting one point back per target is pretty good after the combat.
And please as we reply let's remember this is the rules forum.
Yes. It unfortunately fails the rat-in-a-bag test.
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yeah i had not even thought about just clubbing a rat/dog/baby seal for your points.
Hey all.
So a weapon made of Wyroot ** spoiler omitted **
Say just the base 1k type
After the battle a magus pulls out his wyroot club and Coup de Grace someone
Coup de grace** spoiler omitted **...
Yes, but why stop at enemies.
Buy a bag of chickens, or fish in a barrel?Like shooting fish in a barrel indeed. You can't guarentee Crits, but you will get a few maybe.
Use when need to refill pool.
Huh, I always thought it meant that the sucking of life force doesn't harm the target...not the smack from a hard stick...
Regardless, the Coup does give a point back per target, even if they all fail the save.
I think havoc was saying that he didn't read the wyroot weapon's effect as negating the normal damage from the critical hit -- just as failing to inflict any additional damage.
For the record this is also works for Ki
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Ironically, I asked something similar to this earlier today in another thread:
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Here is the text from the material:
"When a weapon constructed of wyroot confirms a critical hit, it absorbs some of the life force of the creature hit. The creature hit is unharmed and the wyroot weapon gains 1 life point."
When it states that the creature hit is unharmed does that mean unharmed by the life force absorption or unharmed by the critical hit?
I can see it reading two ways:
1) The target is critically hit (takes critical hit point damage) and has its lifeforce drained (which doesn't harm it in any way-no negative levels, loss of con, other things associated with that concept, etc).
2) The target is critically hit (takes no hit point damage because it is unharmed) and has its lifeforce drained (which also doesn't harm it in any way).
Am I the only one confused by this?
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http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz6im8?Does-Wyroot-do-ANY-damage-on-a-critical
If things go the way I read it (option 1) you couldn't do what the OP was asking over and over. So that makes more sense to me.
One less ambiguous way to amend the wyroot description would be as follows:
When a weapon constructed of wyroot confirms a critical hit, it absorbs some of the life force of the creature hit. The wyroot weapon gains 1 life point. The life force absorption itself does not further harm the creature hit.
I'd say it is within the bounds of the RAW to say the effect never triggers on a CDG because CDG never involves confirming the critical.
Critical Hits: When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target's Armor Class, and you have scored a “threat,” meaning the hit might be a critical hit (or “crit”). To find out if it's a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to “confirm” the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target's AC, your original hit is a critical hit. (The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit, it doesn't need to come up 20 again.) If the confirmation roll is a miss, then your hit is just a regular hit.
Is it hair splitting to view confirming a critical and automatically scoring a critical as different things, yes. But it is the same hair splitting that would keep a 3.5 Bodyfeeder weapon from being broken by routine CDGing.
a Coup De Grace is an automatically confirmed critical hit. essentially a bag of rats can provide inifite Ki/AP for a gold piece a day.
I think this would be an evil act though. So maybe not available to PFS.
I think this would be an evil act though. So maybe not available to PFS.
doesn't have the evil tag, and nobody cares if you kill a rat for an arcane pool point. it's no different from allowing a gunslinger to inflict the finishing blow to recover a grit.
a Coup De Grace is an automatically confirmed critical hit. essentially a bag of rats can provide inifite Ki/AP for a gold piece a day.
Unless you cast sleep on those rats, you can't coup de grace them. So you'll kill 20 rats before you crit on average.
ytou could have bound rats in a bag.
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EDIT: Last post was pointlessly antagonistic- Sorry
You cant see the rats in the bag and therefore they have full concealment against you, and CDG cannot be used against them. Sorry powergamers, looks like you need to find something else.
Also, fyi, if I ever ran into someone doing this in a home, or convention game I would make it my personal goal to roleplay the most annoying counter character to them as I possibly could.
PFS Judges know better than to allow these kind of obviously abusive shenanigans, and would instantly judge them as evil.
Perfectly viable for a Hexcrafter.
Slumber. Crit.
EDIT: and I totally just noticed the last post date. Sorry. >_<
EDIT: Last post was pointlessly antagonistic- Sorry
You cant see the rats in the bag and therefore they have full concealment against you, and CDG cannot be used against them. Sorry powergamers, looks like you need to find something else.
Also, fyi, if I ever ran into someone doing this in a home, or convention game I would make it my personal goal to roleplay the most annoying counter character to them as I possibly could.
PFS Judges know better than to allow these kind of obviously abusive shenanigans, and would instantly judge them as evil.
Yes you can. Full concealment only makes it take 2 full rounds instead.
You can't deliver a coup de grace against a creature that is immune to critical hits. You can deliver a coup de grace against a creature with total concealment, but doing this requires two consecutive full-round actions (one to “find” the creature once you've determined what square it's in, and one to deliver the coup de grace).
I personally wouldn't allow someone to do it, if it did work. Suppose it depends on a GMs idea of what confirming the crit is and if a CDG automatically does it or not.
I think this would be an evil act though. So maybe not available to PFS.Doesn't have the evil tag, and nobody cares if you kill a rat for an arcane pool point. it's no different from allowing a gunslinger to inflict the finishing blow to recover a grit.
You might even be doing a favor for someone, getting rid of all the pesky rats scampering in their houses.
Sounds a lot like a Hungry Ghost Monk tying a guy up/chopping off all his limbs (somehow keeping him alive) and then keeping him around to wail on when you need Ki between battles.
I asked this question last week in another thread, having not realized that this thread existed, and it was pointed out that there's a nearly official almost errata stating that the hit still does damage.
a Coup De Grace is an automatically confirmed critical hit. essentially a bag of rats can provide inifite Ki/AP for a gold piece a day.
No, according to the RAW (page 197 of Core Rule book) you "automatically hit and score and score a critical hit". Doesn't say auto confirm. Since it's automatic crit, confirmation doesn't happen. I second Frankthedm.
The conclusion was that yes, it is an auto-confirmed critical so the wyroot does activate, but it's not infinite charges because the wyroot entry was semi-officially "reinterpreted" to mean that it does no EXTRA damage on crits, not that it does ZERO damage on crits. So you still probably only get one (maybe two) wyroot charges out of the CDG.
here is the link to the James Jacobs wyroot clarification
His clarification is about as clear as mud too, but the wording in wyroot is also pretty muddy, so the interpretation of "normal damage instead of x2 damage, and a ki point" is what my group is using.
The conclusion was that yes, it is an auto-confirmed critical so the wyroot does activate, but it's not infinite charges because the wyroot entry was semi-officially "reinterpreted" to mean that it does no EXTRA damage on crits, not that it does ZERO damage on crits. So you still probably only get one (maybe two) wyroot charges out of the CDG.
here is the link to the James Jacobs wyroot clarification
His clarification is about as clear as mud too, but the wording in wyroot is also pretty muddy, so the interpretation of "normal damage instead of x2 damage, and a ki point" is what my group is using.
here is a question... can you Coup de Grace for non-lethal damage (go for a KO instead of a kill?)
Thinking my Magus/Kensai, Bladebound may start to carry a "scabbard.. aka club" made of this stuff...
I realy like the knock a chicken out, CDG, cook it. The party will like you alot as you have chicken most nights. Now you just need a cart with some cages and a mule. Hope no hungry goblins or anything comes along and steal your chickens while your down in the dungeon :)
I realy like the knock a chicken out, CDG, cook it. The party will like you alot as you have chicken most nights. Now you just need a cart with some cages and a mule. Hope no hungry goblins or anything comes along and steal your chickens while your down in the dungeon :)
too cheesy....
But I'm totally for the rope of entanglement + club to the head = power ups....
Sounds like this invokes the bag of cats rule. If you can activate a power with a bag of cats the power doesn't work.
"Bag if cats rule" is this something referred to previously in forums?
here is a question... can you Coup de Grace for non-lethal damage (go for a KO instead of a kill?)
Thinking my Magus/Kensai, Bladebound may start to carry a "scabbard.. aka club" made of this stuff...
I think you can, but I also think you can legitimately kill someone with enough 'nonlethal' damage as well, if I recall the rules corrrectly. I think any nonlethal past the 'death' point shows up as lethal, which can in turn kill you.
"Bag if cats rule" is this something referred to previously in forums?
I've seen the concept in other environments. At a LARP I used to play at, a guy showed up one time wearing a bunch of baby dolls hanging from his outer garments, claiming they were physrepping real newborn babies. When he got hit with a death spell, he'd rip that baby off and keep fighting. It was a cute (if evil) idea for about five minutes before everyone spanked him for it.
As a GM, I would quickly rule that a bag of cats, or chickens, or mice, or whatever, didn't have enough life force to charge a wyroot weapon. I think performing a coup de grace on an animal large enough to participate meaningfully in combat, however, should work.