Creative Director
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From what I read, each rune lord had their own way of staying young and/or extending their life. Only two of them ruled for the entire duration of the Thessalonian empire. The rest were the last in a line of rune lords. Sorshen used the clones to keep herself young (or that is at least part of her secret) Oddly enough, Necromancy was a restricted school for her. The only way she could have accomplished this would have been with help from a Necromancer (quite possibly Zutha, rune lord of Gluttony.)
Actually, the way she got this taken care of was the fact that she has lots of dominate person effects and that lets her control any number of necromancy-capable creatures and characters to cast spells for her.
Question on the "From the Minds of Monsters". My group figures (metagaming) that they aren't going to have the month necessary to have more than one PC read this, so they're planning on selling it. What is it worth?
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Creative Director
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Question on the "From the Minds of Monsters". My group figures (metagaming) that they aren't going to have the month necessary to have more than one PC read this, so they're planning on selling it. What is it worth?
It's a minor artifact and as such it's price is, well, priceless.
That said...
1) The campaign isn't supposed to be on a time limit. The PCs should have time to take time off to read books like this or craft magic items or do other downtime stuff.
2) It doesn't take a month to read the book. It only takes 48 hours spread out over a minimum of 6 days. You can basically get in 8 hours of reading a day if you're not adventuring 24/7, and be done in under a week. It then recarges once it's used, so after a month another PC can read it.
If the group STILL wants to sell it... you should make finding the buyer its own adventure. Selling artifacts should never be easy or mundane. The price itself should end up being less than 50,000 gp though, I think, since if you price it TOO high, the PCs can just buy a tome of clear thought for everyone and that's kinda lame.
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From what I read, each rune lord had their own way of staying young and/or extending their life. Only two of them ruled for the entire duration of the Thessalonian empire. The rest were the last in a line of rune lords. Sorshen used the clones to keep herself young (or that is at least part of her secret) Oddly enough, Necromancy was a restricted school for her. The only way she could have accomplished this would have been with help from a Necromancer (quite possibly Zutha, rune lord of Gluttony.)
Well, I guess it didn't matter. When the party reached the trap it was the wizard who tripped it and even though he failed both of his saves he was wearing his PFS Rise of the Runelords shirt and thus was ironically given a reroll which he made his fortitude save the second time. He still has some connection with the clone for the rest of the dungeon, but he has been having some amazing dice luck since then. Doesn't look like this rune lord will be doing any rising.
1) The campaign isn't supposed to be on a time limit. The PCs should have time to take time off to read books like this or craft magic items or do other downtime stuff.
Oh,I know that. You know that. But they don't know that. And old, metagame habits are hard to break.
They're currently annoyed that they "lost" the quest the establish a trade route in the Mushfens because they inadvertently slaughtered the "good" boggards before interviewing the spearwives in the boggard village. Never even occurred to them there might be "good" troglodytes, too.
Ok, this may be in here somewhere but...
Does my PC get a bonus to her bluff for looking exactly like Sorshen. I temporarily gave her a +10 but it seems high since it makes it virtually impossible for any NPC to beat it with a Sense Motive.
On bluff modifiers:
You possess convincing proof "up to +10"
I think having an EXACT same body as her, which feels the same and looks the same, is convincing proof that you are in fact, Sorshen. So any number from +5 to +10 should be fine.
Back and again:
The PCs have left the Lady's Light. They lost two guys to the glass golem and decided to return (even thought they could have allied with Gnaeus and his employer who just came back to rescue him).
The trip back will be 8 days to Magnimar.
1 week in Magnimar to do the "Restoration" of their resurrected friends (2 negative levels require at least 1 week to remove)
6 days or less to get back (since this time they could get some magic mounts or something).
That's a lot of time for the dungeon "owner" to prepare for defenses, and since they activated the Thassilonian Centinels, she's in fact aware somewhere came in and then they left.
What do you think would be her actions?
What defenses would she prepare?
What would she do with the available Gray Maidens?
On another topic:
They also freed Gnaeus and he just rejoined with his former employer (a summoner wizard from Korvosa). The two are now aware of some powerful artifact is in the dungeon, and they also know that the group has 2 other artifacts (because the wizard used Detect Magic on them detecting 2 overwhelming auras). Do you think these two should continue by their own and "do" the dungeon while the group is away?
Should they also go for more mercenaries and come back? Maybe work as an antagonist group?
Well, it's a longshot that anyone will still be reading this, but thought it might be worth a shot.
My players tend to take an unconventional approach to a lot of situations, and I try to accommodate that where I can (in Shards of Sin they actually put themselves severely in debt to the Pathfinder Society to have Lockerbrie (sp?) raised from the dead rather than just choosing to help him by telling his wife they'd found his body).
Now they've managed to win over the Troglodyte tribes, and are considering how to take on the boggards. The troglodytes have also mentioned the existence of the nearby pyrohydra, and have mentioned that they would prefer if it was removed given that it's a reminder of their time under their cleric of whatever the hell their demon lord is called. So, the players have developed a plan to try and lure the pyrohydra into the boggard village...
What I'm wondering is if anyone else had their party try something like this, and if so, how did it turn out? How did you run the scene with luring the hydra, and so on? How did you actually handle the combat once the hydra was in the boggard village?
What I'm leaning towards doing is modifying the use of the chase deck for this purpose. I've chosen ten appropriate cards for a chase through marshlands, and have figured that I'll run it as the players having to make enough checks to keep ahead of the hydra. It'll start two or three rounds behind them, but consistently gets past the obstacles. So if they fail too many checks, the hydra catches up before they can get to the village. Any thoughts or problems with this occur to anyone?
My PCs went a more conventional route and killed the hydra, but your idea of doing a chase is brilliant. That should work! What I wonder is what happens when the PCs reach the boggard village. The hydra should be so upset at the PCs by then that I'm not sure it would attack the boggards. Or maybe since the group was proactive and had a neet idea, I would just decide it randomly attacks PCs or boggards once it's in the village, leaving the chance for the group to get out of the way if they are lucky and want to?
I think their plan is to basically lure it into the boggard village, get the boggards riled up and fighting the hydra, then bail. I'm thinking I'll run that bit on the fly depending on what actions they take when they get there. I know the sorcerer has invisibility now, so that could help.
Yep, make it work, but keep the hydra or the boggards (whoever wins that fight) on the radar for later in the game.
Yeah, I suspect they'll end up facing off against a weakened hydra. To speed things up though I may run it as a mock combat before the session, so I can just describe the combat to them quickly.
It was going to be on this coming Saturday, but we alternate Reign of Winter and Shattered Star on a weekly basis, and our Reign of Winter group got delayed, so I've got another week to prepare it.
Let's look at the Charm Person spell. Let's also look at the Enchantment school, and related rules; thus the following notes apply:
This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target's attitude as friendly). If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.
The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn't ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing. Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell. You must speak the person's language to communicate your commands, or else be good at pantomiming.
Enchantment
Enchantment spells affect the minds of others, influencing or controlling their behavior.
All enchantments are mind-affecting spells. Two subschools of enchantment spells grant you influence over a subject creature.
Subschools
Charm: A charm spell changes how the subject views you, typically making it see you as a good friend.
Compulsion: a compulsion spell forces the subject to act in some manner or changes the way its mind works. Some compulsion spells determine the subject's actions or the effects on the subject, others allow you to determine the subject's actions when you cast the spell, and still others give you ongoing control over the subject.
... and, according to saving throws under magic (though not in the generic saving throw entry, oddly enough),
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells."
... means that I believe Charm isn't intended to work that way. I think it creates a link directly to the caster in question.
For example, you have two identical twins named Bob infront of - oh, let's call him "CharmTargetOne" - and one Bob is a bard that can cast Charm Person, the other being a barbarian that doesn't; Bob-the-Bard casts Charm Person, then the CharmTargetOne is going to be charmed to Bob the Bard, but not Bob the Barbarian.
How, does that work?
Well, human emotions aren't always logical. Sometimes there's just a guy or girl that we don't like or that we do like. Perhaps it's body language (posture, grooming, etc), something odd about the facial expression, a clothing choice or something else - we just spontaneously form an emotional resonance (for or against) that person. The Charm Person spell does this. It creates a positive resonance for us. It just informs our brain, "This guy," (the one the spell has come from - it "knows" which of the two it comes from, by virtue of having come from him), "is a great guy; like him!" and our brains will like this guy, but retain their normal behavior to that guy, regardless of whether their over-all bearing was similar.
How, then, would you play this? What would be going through Gnaeus' mind?
Well, we know that he's, ...
... still under the lingering influence of a charm monster spell, but this does nothing to blunt the jealousy and depression he’s suffering at having been cast aside by the woman he has come to love. Madness has begun to eat away at him, and he’s been spending a fair amount of time lately brooding over his fate.
... and,
If captured, Gnaeus refuses to divulge any information as long as he remains charmed by “Sorshen.” The spell effect has only 2 days left of its duration from the first time the PCs encounter him, though. If the effect ends or is dispelled, the dhampir is ashamed at how long he’s been under his mistress’s control—he has no desire to confront her again, and writes off his armor as a lost cause as he wants nothing more at this point but to flee the area. Before he flees, though, he’ll certainly be willing to reward the PCs with what he knows of the area and his mistress. He can confirm that a group of Gray Maidens led by a woman named Oriana now serves the Lady of the Light, whom he has started to believe may not actually be Sorshen—he’s caught glimpses of what he believes is her “true form” three times, that of a beautiful but frightening demonic woman with bat wings and horns.
... meaning two different interpretations and four different results are possible that I can see.
1) He is susceptible to skill checks (unlike normal). Whereas normally it's impossible, under this result of interpretation, if the PCs roll well on their diplomacy, bluff, and/or intimidate to pass by without giving the pass phrase, he may speak spitefully and angrily at them, either warning them off by demanding that she's his, or warning them off by decrying her "love" as, "a mere passing spark, a fleeting moment of bliss only to be ripped from you for eternal torment thereafter!" or somesuch. This could lead to a confrontation with the most charismatic (or, barring that, best chested) PC other than Sorsha in a doomed attempt to win her love. Alternatively, he could just let them go, furious at them or her the entire time.
2) He could simply take the opportunity (no longer compelled to treat her well) to force her to accept him again. Railing against her and her fickleness, demanding that she accept him into her good graces again, he could be even more violent and unstable. The mere sight of her driving him into a maddened state, he might become even more unreasonable and furious, and possibly attempt to force her to choose him... or to force her, regardless of how she feels.
1) He goes through the same routine, perhaps noting that, "It is a true shame that I must destroy the face I've come to love - perhaps your death will win her heart." (or "your heart" for extra crazy-creepiness interpretation).
2) He becomes relatively frantic, either defensive of "his" Sorshen*, or driven even more deeply into near-madness**.
In both of these, he may continually discusses the similarities between the two.
[spoiler=All your asterisk are belong to here]* (""***)
** (Either a ""*** or something like "" and so on.)
*** In either of these two, he may come to the "epiphany" (i.e. self deception) that at last allows him to understand why he was pushed aside - his true love didn't want him to see the terrifying truth, and so pushed him away as he became too close; but his love is strong enough, and he will prove to her now that he doesn't care what she looks like, as he is willing to accept all of her, regardless of her form.
Now, all that is presuming a more or less RAI game.
In out game, I'm thinking of running it that he doesn't know, or at least giving the PC-as-Sorshen the chance to "claim" the charm from the the she-who-charmed-him or "multiply" the charm (to include herself as well) via an opposed Charisma check. (Of course, if they're mythic, like I'm planning, she may utilize the Transfer Magic mythic power or something similar.)
I'm toying with the idea, when the charm transfers (or if it "multiplies" i.e. functions on new Sorshen-PC as well as she-who-charmed-him), of whether or not to transfer his emotional state to the new one as well. If she behaves differently enough, combined with his glimpses of her "true form" (and the fact that the true form terrifies him) it could be that he doesn't care that she's not the other one. Either he loves this new one anyway, or he sees her as his salvation from the other.
Hope that helps!
I ran the encounter very much in the way that, Yes, Gnaeus is charmed, but that magical link isn't with the PC. If the PCs had approached and the Sorchen character had took charge and played the apprent role to the hilt, he'd have let her pass no problem with the appropriate check. Unfortunately that didn't happen, and as the other party members acted as equals or possibly betters to Sorchen as they talked with each other, he began to suspect something was off, either that this Sorchen is in disguise (and there's no magical link to prevent him from shifting downwards from being Friendly to this particular PC), or had in fact, in a hilarious irony, somehow been enchanted herself by these adventurers. So, because of roleplaying, he insisted on a password, and when wasn't provided the encounter pretty much ran as normal. He was apologetic to the Sorshen character and avoided actually attacking her all the same in the ensuing combat.
If for some reason Gnaeus can be convinced for the moment that this is Sorshen, and they ask him to come along, pay very careful attention to inter-party roleplay. There should be plenty of chances for Gnaeus to suspect something like a magical disguise at some point, especially if Sorshen isn't using her Glaive in combat or spells, or isn't commanding and leading the party, or simply seeing and searching rooms for the first time (take 20s and such), or fighting other guardians. Again, while the charm effect with Ashamintallu might make him immune from fallen to a less than friendly status with her, this doesn't exist with someone who only looks like Sorshen, and for that matter even if he is convinced its her, he is now able to disobey this Sorshen, and take out his anger on her about getting spurned for a new lover and taking away his breastplate. One way or another, unless he's released enitrely from the charm, he's probably going to come to blows with the party. This can make him a rather dangerous timebomb you can place inside the party.
Depends on your players and the characters they have created, if they are going to do what Major_Blackhart says then run them, if they are like my PCs and they are just going to kill everyone then i don't think that it's worth the effort of running them.
Don't forget there's the quest for a trade partnership to be forged.
What are her physical stats, height, weight, etc,. They should reflect the new body.
She has black hair and what appears to be Amber eyes on page 55.
Also, does the clone have the tattoo on her belly as well.AH.
Sorshen has black hair and amber eyes. The clone does not have the tattoo or the gems in her shoulders. She's 5' 9" and weighs about 135 pounds. All of these are subject to change if and when I stat her up for real, of course, so if those don't work for you, feel free to change them as you wish.
What about her alignment (and the alignment of the other Runelords)? I do not have The Dead Heart of Xin, maybe the "survey of the ancient rulers of Thassilon—all seven runelords detailed in one place" article includes this info?
On a side note:
http://arqute.com/ins_project/stogov/12744
Most art here is from Reign of Winter, I believe, but where in the Paizo products I find that Sorshen image?
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Sorshen's image is on page 55 of AP#62
Sorshen's image is on page 55 of AP#62
I do have AP#62, my question was about THIS Sorshen image from the gallery I linked above...
i believe it is a digital rendering of the Sorshen pawn from the pawn set
How would you get the glass golem to the final encounter? Dimension door?
@Laveral: I would say it depends on whether or not the alu demon knows that the party is there. Did they set off the sentinels in the hall after Gnaeus? Or did they take out Gnaeus or the giant? If so, the clock is ticking... Remember that she dim doors to the giant and Gnaues periodically to recharm and feed, etc... And the thassilonian sentinels give off that mental alarm
Even knocking off the gray maidens would eventually alert her, if the party is really lolly gagging...
How would you get the glass golem to the final encounter? Dimension door?
dwarf, or dwarven porter if your party lacks a dwarf:)
How would you get the glass golem to the final encounter? Dimension door?dwarf, or dwarven porter if your party lacks a dwarf:)
I am sorry, I still do not get it. Please explain?
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I am sorry, I still do not get it. Please explain?How would you get the glass golem to the final encounter? Dimension door?dwarf, or dwarven porter if your party lacks a dwarf:)
dwarves don't take penalties to movement for encumbrance, my wife and kids insist on having a dwarf in every party, to carry the luggage:)
If the party has the correct resources and a spellcaster who can cast the necessary spell, I don't see why the "hijacked" Sorshen clone can't be raised/resurrected. A scroll can also do it, if they either find one or can buy one.
Of course, if they use the Reincarnate spell instead, then the new body will not resemble the Sorshen clone.
?!? ... The party is more likely to become "overpowered" if they are allowed to loot the _un-resurrected_ character's body, than if the character is allowed to be raised/resurrected.
There is a reason why most reasonable parties amass a communal "party chest/bank": to pay for any necessary Restoration, Raise Dead, Ressurection, and other similar spells.
Say, does Gnaeus Gnaru's stats already factor in his pre-combat buffs?
I can see that it does include his Shield spell, but I can't tell if it includes his Bear's Endurance and Bull's Strength too.
Also, additionally, I can't figure out where his HP comes from... From what I can tell, he should have 71 HP, not 79.
The formula for his health should be 8+(7*4.5)+(8*3)+8. The first 8 is his initial level 1 boost... Then 7*4.5 would be the next 7 levels. The 8*3 is his ConMod for all 8 of his levels, as given by his stats, and finally the +8 is his Toughness feat.
This adds up to 71.5... So somewhere, there's 8 HP or so lacking. This conveniently corresponds to a +1 to his ConMod somewhere.
Have I missed something?
Say, does Gnaeus Gnaru's stats already factor in his pre-combat buffs?
I can see that it does include his Shield spell, but I can't tell if it includes his Bear's Endurance and Bull's Strength too.
Also, additionally, I can't figure out where his HP comes from... From what I can tell, he should have 71 HP, not 79.
The formula for his health should be 8+(7*4.5)+(8*3)+8. The first 8 is his initial level 1 boost... Then 7*4.5 would be the next 7 levels. The 8*3 is his ConMod for all 8 of his levels, as given by his stats, and finally the +8 is his Toughness feat.
This adds up to 71.5... So somewhere, there's 8 HP or so lacking. This conveniently corresponds to a +1 to his ConMod somewhere.
Have I missed something?
Favoured Class HP bonus?
Favoured Class HP bonus?
Have I missed something?
D'OH.
How did I miss that? Oh well, thanks!
I probably have to buff him somewhat anyway so my players don't steamroll him
In the near future I'm starting a game with kids aged 12-18 through my work with a mental health agency. Largely because I own and like it I'm running Shards of Sin after the Beginner Box Bash encounters. If they're into it I'd like to advance them through the AP, because why not? The question I'd like answered is this: How easily can this module be adapted for this age group in an after-school group? I read this a while back and remember a good deal about the boggards and troglodytes but considerably less about the Lady's Light itself. Is it possible to get this installment to a place that's appropriate for this group without throwing out half of it and losing the theme?
Anybody?
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Always funny to read that "nasty torture" and bloodshed in general is ok while nudity is .
Ruyan.