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There's no mention of this table in the Additional Resources though. Is it reasonable to conclude that it's legality is implied by the legal archetype that uses it?
It is reasonable to conclude that the list is legal for characters that have that archetype. Though without this archetype granting access it should be assumed as not legal for other characters.
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As a Gm from gen con with this year's changeling boon, will there be an update to the additional resources to allow them add legal play choices for boon holders?
Does the boon also extend to racial feats and archtypes?
I know this has been brought up to John Compton already and he said he'd take a look, I'd imagine that yes it will get added to the AR.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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APG Extra Hex and ACG Extra Hex are both legal. The ACG version adds this:
If you are a shaman, it must be a hex granted by your spirit rather than one from a wandering spirit.
What prevents a shaman from taking the APG one listed in the additional resources page and saying "that is the APG feat I'm taking and it is legal"
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The ACG has a newer printing of the feat. It is hard to claim that they are two different feats and not an update, since they share much of the same language (unlike, for example, the two completely different Dueling weapon enhancements). It's also hard to claim being unaware of the ACG feat, given that it is in the same book as the Shaman.
EDIT: And making the APG feat illegal would unfairly punish the player of a Witch who only owns the APG.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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We seriously need a clear rule on how to handle "the same thing" appearing in two books with different, sometimes updated mechanics.
Because although people naturally assume so, there is not any rule saying you should use the newest rules, that anyone's been able to quote to me.
And if you think about it, that would undermine half the point of Additional Resources: that you can show your GM an accurate version of the ability you're using, if you own the source.
If only the version of a thing from the most recent source is legal, the other source is not sufficient. For example, if I have an item from UE, but it gets a newer printing in say, Adventurer's Armory. Because I have UE I have the right to use the item. But the newest rules are in a book that's not in the PRD and which I might not own, nor the GM.
This is less problematic if the newest source is in the PRD, which is often the case because stuff tends to go from softcovers to reprinting in hardcovers.
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Question about the Arcanist School Savant archetype in ACG: Wizards who take a Elementalist school, specifically Metal, Void and Wood (which don't work with the elementalist archetype) only have one opposition school which is predetermined (Wood to Metal, etc.) The Archetype cites the standard rule for normal schools (transmutation, Enchantment etc) meaning the usual two schools in opposition applies.
Would a school savant in Wood only take their predetermined "metal" school in opposition or would they have to pick another school as well?
Thanks in advance for an answer.
Contributor
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The Dirty Tactics book has a feat that adds a d6 precision damage to attacks.
I'm wondering if will be allowed to make the 2d6 sneak attack requirement easier for Arcane Trickster.
The feat in question specifically increases your sneak attack damage by 1d6. It seems fairly unambiguous to me, but I suppopse they could rule against it.
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Question about the Arcanist School Savant archetype...Probably best to ask this in the Rules Forum.
Actually, I'm pointing out a corner case where RAW does not seem to match RAI or even have been considered by the original designers.So this seems to be the perfect thing to point out as a possible candidate for an faq or a rules clarification.
For that I seem to be exactly in the right spot.
Thanks, I put it down as a faq candidate.
Kerney
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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Question about the Arcanist School Savant archetype...Probably best to ask this in the Rules Forum.Actually, I'm pointing out a corner case where RAW does not seem to match RAI or even have been considered by the original designers.So this seems to be the perfect thing to point out as a possible candidate for an faq or a rules clarification.
For that I seem to be exactly in the right spot.
Thanks, I put it down as a faq candidate.
Kerney
Which is a valid question, but not in the Additional Resources thread.
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Which is a valid question, but not in the Additional Resources thread.Question about the Arcanist School Savant archetype...Probably best to ask this in the Rules Forum.Actually, I'm pointing out a corner case where RAW does not seem to match RAI or even have been considered by the original designers.So this seems to be the perfect thing to point out as a possible candidate for an faq or a rules clarification.
For that I seem to be exactly in the right spot.
Thanks, I put it down as a faq candidate.
Kerney
Sorry, In my head I thought of the ACG as a "new" rescource. I then looked at the publication date and went "Its been out that long."
Sorry if I came off as a jerk.
Take care,
Kerney
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Which is a valid question, but not in the Additional Resources thread.Question about the Arcanist School Savant archetype...Probably best to ask this in the Rules Forum.Actually, I'm pointing out a corner case where RAW does not seem to match RAI or even have been considered by the original designers.So this seems to be the perfect thing to point out as a possible candidate for an faq or a rules clarification.
For that I seem to be exactly in the right spot.
Thanks, I put it down as a faq candidate.
Kerney
Sorry, In my head I thought of the ACG as a "new" rescource. I then looked at the publication date and went "Its been out that long."
Sorry if I came off as a jerk.
Take care,
Kerney
Not as a jerk, but, like many things, this was a rules question not specific to PFS. It is something the PTB at Paizo need to clarify, so that it doesn't require house rules to work right in every campaign. In which case, it is a question that belongs in the Paizo/Pathfinder/Rules Questions forums, so it can be clarified, FAQed and/or errataed.
Hmm it's been almost 2 months since the last update. Any info on when the next one will be up?
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Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
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We finished the final touches on the update a few days ago, so I anticipate it will show up on the website sometime next week.
John,
Thanks for not only for the update on additional resources but most of all what you are doing during the search for the new Campaign Coordinator as the interim coordinator. I am sure everyone is looking forward to the update and see what goodies are going to be allowed from the books added since the last additional resources.
Awesome! Thank you. Been keen to build a new character with the Dirty Tactics Toolbox!
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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It seems there is confusion about whether or not race restricted things are allowed for only the races involved or for humans with racial heritage (blah) where blah is a race that has race restricted items.
Several people saying Humans can take Kitsune race restricted feats
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It seems there is confusion about whether or not race restricted things are allowed for only the races involved or for humans with racial heritage (blah) where blah is a race that has race restricted items.
Several people saying Humans can take Kitsune race restricted feats
If they are in the Advanced Race Guide only the race in question can have them.
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If they are in the Advanced Race Guide only the race in question can have them.It seems there is confusion about whether or not race restricted things are allowed for only the races involved or for humans with racial heritage (blah) where blah is a race that has race restricted items.
Several people saying Humans can take Kitsune race restricted feats
Conversely, if they are listed in another source such as the Dragon Empires Primer, they are legal from that source.
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Conversely, if they are listed in another source such as the Dragon Empires Primer, they are legal from that source.If they are in the Advanced Race Guide only the race in question can have them.It seems there is confusion about whether or not race restricted things are allowed for only the races involved or for humans with racial heritage (blah) where blah is a race that has race restricted items.
Several people saying Humans can take Kitsune race restricted feats
Gamerskum and Imbicatus have it correct, Racial feats from the ARG are only available for that particular race, while a feat like racial heritage can let you take racial feats that are from other sources.
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If they are in the Advanced Race Guide only the race in question can have them.It seems there is confusion about whether or not race restricted things are allowed for only the races involved or for humans with racial heritage (blah) where blah is a race that has race restricted items.
Several people saying Humans can take Kitsune race restricted feats
For a bit more clarity on the topic, Racial Heritage might not be what you expect.
The blood of a non-human ancestor flows in your veins.
Prerequisite: Human.
Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You count as both human and that race for any effects related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.
The dilemma seems to be coming from the idea that either the Feat does what it says or it doesn't actually do anything.
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Please make sure to change the fact that the rat folk are both legal and illegal per the ARG.
Racial Heritage appears to grant humans/half-elves/half-orcs access to other race's prestige classes, feats, etc. They must still meet all other prereqs.
This doesn't allow you to ignore the stuff that require the character itself be a race (the books that stand out for this are Goblins of Golarion and the ARG)
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Gamerskum and Imbicatus have it correct, Racial feats from the ARG are only available for that particular race, while a feat like racial heritage can let you take racial feats that are from other sources.
Just to be clear, some (like DM Beckett above) are asserting that Racial Herritage makes those human characters Kitsune so they don't violate the Additional Resources prohibition on non-Kitsune. They are Human Kitsune and as such qualify.
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Conversely, if they are listed in another source such as the Dragon Empires Primer, they are legal from that source.If they are in the Advanced Race Guide only the race in question can have them.It seems there is confusion about whether or not race restricted things are allowed for only the races involved or for humans with racial heritage (blah) where blah is a race that has race restricted items.
Several people saying Humans can take Kitsune race restricted feats
The dragon empires primer has a prohibition similar to the arg's
Racial heritage needs a ban, a really big asterix, or a cautionary word from admiral ackbar.
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Conversely, if they are listed in another source such as the Dragon Empires Primer, they are legal from that source.If they are in the Advanced Race Guide only the race in question can have them.It seems there is confusion about whether or not race restricted things are allowed for only the races involved or for humans with racial heritage (blah) where blah is a race that has race restricted items.
Several people saying Humans can take Kitsune race restricted feats
The problem here is the misunderstanding of what /race/ character means.
Note: Alternate racial traits, racial archetypes, racial evolutions, racial feats, and racial spells are only available for characters of the associated race. Racial equipment and magic items can be purchased and used by any race as long as the specific item permits it (for example, only halflings can purchase and use solidsmoke pipeweed).
A character only has one race, no matter how many they count as, for the concerns of PFS.
When the additional resources talks about the race of your character, it has nothing to do with any feats or traits(racial or otherwise) they may have. Those are core rules things. A human is always only a human, as a half-elf is only a half-elf, as far as PFS rules are concerned. The Pathfinder rule set is more lax though, allowing you to 'count as' another race than your true race.There are actually several levels of rules to consider when you read any text related to PFS.
For example...
Say you have a spell in a core book that is described as an elf only spell. That spell would be legal for any race that is considered an elf, because the core game rules look at what your character 'counts as' when it comes to racial selection.
But, anything in the ARG that is legal for any particular race only looks at what race you selected at character creation. This is because at the PFS level of rules, your character is only one race and there is specific PFS level text limiting the selection of racial feats/spells/traits from that book. You are only the race you either were granted without a boon, or used a boon to get access to. In other words, the race limiting structure that PFS uses. No feat in the core rules can get around this. But, a boon could allow it anyway, since a boon is at the PFS level of rules.
There is of course room for them to loosen those restrictions. But, unless otherwise stated, that is how it works. Every board clarification about this restriction at least intimates this, if not outright says it.
PFS rules are more strict and should be read as so.
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The needless, illogical, and pointless hate for the Racial Heritage feat, by a select few, is dumbfounding.
It's already nearly a trap in PFS.
The typical response of dislike for the feat does not seem to be related to the power/abilities of the feat... but seems to be more related to a dislike of the arguments it starts. For my opinion, I dislike seeing troublesome rules outright banned instead of worked into something more usable. Since, this leads to more variety and options. Those very options are the reason I play Pathfinder in the first place.
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The typical response of dislike for the feat does not seem to be related to the power/abilities of the feat... but seems to be more related to a dislike of the arguments it starts. For my opinion, I dislike seeing troublesome rules outright banned instead of worked into something more usable. Since, this leads to more variety and options. Those very options are the reason I play Pathfinder in the first place.The needless, illogical, and pointless hate for the Racial Heritage feat, by a select few, is dumbfounding.
It's already nearly a trap in PFS.
I agree. I suppose I meant specifically those select few who openly state their dislike for the power/abilities, and above all, flavor, or the feat.
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Here is the current ruling:
Alternate racial traits, racial archetypes, racial feats, and racial spells are only available for characters of the associated race. Racial equipment and magic items can be purchased and used by any race as long as the specific item permits it (for example, only halflings can purchase and use solidsmoke pipeweed).
So, no, a half-orc or half-elf may not take a human-only feat.
And here is his clarification two posts later
It does not apply to all previous rulings in other books. This applies to the Advanced Race Guide. You can find my official ruling in the Additional Resources.
It's not hating on a feat, it's a ruling that's not (currently) open for discussion. If you disagree with the ruling, then that's fine, you can start another thread to petition to have it revisited. In another thread. Let's try to keep the AR thread to actual issues with the Additional Ressources page.
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Contributor
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I am not talking about the PFS Houserules.
I am talking about Player and DM complaints about any currently legal use of the feat, and/or it's existence.
This is a PFS thread, so please keep commentary to things that pertain to Pathfinder Society Organized Play. There are many, many other threads for general Pathfinder RPG things.
Further, this thread is primarily for announcements of updates to the Additional Resources document and questions related to it, not your complaints on other peoples' opinions.
Thanks.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Let's try to keep the AR thread to actual issues with the Additional Ressources page.
You misunderstand, this isn't a complaint about the restriction. This is an assertion there is no restriction.
To some, the feat Racial Heritage (Kitsune) makes you a characters of the associated race and therefore you qualify under the Additional Resources restriction as a Human Kitsune as a Kitsune Character.
Just so I'm clear, I don't share this opinion. I believe you need to be an actual Kitsune, not a Human Kitsune via Racial Heritage to take those feats. I'm just pointing out that some don't believe the restriction is restricting.