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1- Arcane pool, cantrips, spell combat, Rime Spell
2- Spellstrike
3- Arcana: Familiar (either raven or pterosaur), Enforcer
4- Hex Magus: Slumber
5- Bonus Feat: Blindfight, Combat Expertise
6- Hex Arcana: Evil Eye, Racial: Hex Arcana- Flight
7- Medium Armor, Moonlight Stalker
8-Improved Spell Combat
9-Hex Arcana-Misfortune, Improved Familiar (Fairie Dragon)
10-Fighter Training
11-Power Attack, Spell Recall, Intensify Spell
12- Hex Arcana- Ice Tomb, Racial: Hex Arcana- Retribution or major healing
13- Heavy Armor, Extra Arcana: Arcane Accuracy
14 Greater Spell Combat
15- Arcana- Bane Blade, Craft Rod
16- Counterstrike
17-Quicken Spell, Spell Perfection:Chain Lightning
18- Hex Arcana- Summon Spirit, Racial: Lifegiver
19- Greater Spell Access, Dazing Spell
20- True Magus
This is the current proposed level 20 build for Varrel.
I have played him from 1 to 7 in CoTCT App and also in a few high level 14+ one shots.
He kicks a$$ really hard. But I admit in the fights where he can't simply nova the enemy himself (electric or cold immune Melee centric foes) his tactics is to either slumber, Ice Tomb or Evil Eye a foe for his allies to smash.
The misfortune hex has not come up that often.
I could see myself trading out the Misfortune Hex Arcana at level 9 to take Spell Scars instead.
To prep 6 extra 3rd level spells could be quite useful.
Without really considering it hard:
Haste x2
Gtr Magic Weapon ×2
Slow x2
Could be great examples of 18 spare spell levels to prep for and last all combat.
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Yeah, probably a solid green.
Awesome for utility and endurance (though hexcrafters have the best endurance of any other magai)
Blue is reserved for balls to the wall awesome.
It's pretty sweet but not moronic to not take it.
Here's one other advantage to that is awesome for the non-shocking grasp focused magus.
A spell-scar is considered a scroll so it's not a spell you cast. This means it won't cost you any of your remaining charges from chill touch or frostbite. This lets you double dip and have both of those spells running at one and STILL be able to drop the occasional intensified shocking grasps on top of the damage & debuffs from the other two.I think that ability (though not cheap) is well worth consideration.
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Re-read what you just quotedYeah, probably a solid green.
Awesome for utility and endurance (though hexcrafters have the best endurance of any other magai)
Blue is reserved for balls to the wall awesome.
It's pretty sweet but not moronic to not take it.Here's one other advantage to that is awesome for the non-shocking grasp focused magus.
A spell-scar is considered a scroll so it's not a spell you cast. This means it won't cost you any of your remaining charges from chill touch or frostbite. This lets you double dip and have both of those spells running at one and STILL be able to drop the occasional intensified shocking grasps on top of the damage & debuffs from the other two.
I think that ability (though not cheap) is well worth consideration.
Is this really legal? The scroll activation description states: "Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance."
If it is "like casting a spell" wouldn't it cancel the held charges from touch spells? I know that passage is referring to spell disruption and failure, but is your proposed use of spell scars open to DM interpretation?
Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.
It's only like casting a spell for arcane spell failure, everything else is like using an item and items do not cause your charges to go away.
While I really like where you are going with that Mathwei ap Niall, while I would say it MAY be RAW, I don't think it's RAI.
Until a dev were to ccomment I would say that is totally a GM fiat call.
You could add a guide note in italics but I probably wouldn't use it.
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While I really like where you are going with that Mathwei ap Niall, while I would say it MAY be RAW, I don't think it's RAI.
Until a dev were to ccomment I would say that is totally a GM fiat call.You could add a guide note in italics but I probably wouldn't use it.
You know me, I only ever write from the RAW point of view. Trying to get into the RAI viewpoint is like trying to guess which way the wind is going to blow 5 minutes from now, pointless.
Anyway, everything is GM's fiat, I just like to present the rules as the game is written so the GM has all the information to make that call correctly.
What are your thoughts on Weaponwand?
I can see using a wand of Frostbite here to get all the usual debuffs (fatigue, shaken, grapple - although not entangle). 50 attacks without casting any other spells plus the ability to cast other stuff if you want.
Could still use Spell Combat and add a second spell - 2nd frostbite or a shocking grasp for extra effect/damage.
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Also Illusion of Calm looks good at low levels when you're still likely to not succeed on defensive casting.
Thoughts?
So, I'm trying to make a Tiefling Hexcrafter Bladebound (and might as well...) Fiend Flayer Magus for a game that's starting at level 2 and going until 7th-9th level. Going Dervish Dance. Given that level range, I'm considering blasphemy and not taking either of the traits that gives -1 spell level, since intensified shocking grasp does nothing till 6th anyway. Taking Scaled Skin, Maw (I assume since spell combat is a full attack again, I can chain the bite to the end), prehensile tail, and vestigial wings variants.
But I am stuck on what to do... One of my traits will be Blade of Mercy, I just like it for thematic reasons for my character. Feats will be Finesse (1st), DD (3rd), and then from 5th on...just Extra Arcana / Extra Hex. Arcana Hexes will probably be Slumber (4th), Flight (5th; feat), Divinatory Strike (6th; it's just too cool not to take), and then maybe Prehensile Hair or one of the arcanas that actually spends pool points.
I'm torn on what to do with my other trait and my 5th level bonus feat, though.
Option 1: Two-World Magic for Touch of Fatigue, to combine w/ spell combat / spellstrike for a nice debuff (it's just nifty...I already have brand for infinite extra attacks) and Enforcer feat.
Option 1a: Bruising Intellect to make intimidate int-based, then Enforcer at 5th level.
Option 2: Either metamagic reducer trait on Frostbite, then Rime Spell at 5th level.
If it matters, I have 25 point but and figure my stats will be Str 12, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 5 after race. I could drop str and wis for less horrible charisma...but I don't think it's worth it, even if it means my intimidate modifier is awful.
Which route should I go?
EDIT: Bonus question! I can't afford a mithral buckler yet, is it worth 5% ASF for +1 AC from a regular masterwork buckler? I'm...really having trouble finding stuff to buy when I can't spend more than 500 gp on any one item. Probably will just get a lot of scrolls of infernal healing and other 1st level spells.
How is that so?
Does spell combat count as making a full attack action for the purpose of haste and other effects?
Yes (revised 9/9/13) This is a revised ruling about how haste interacts with effects that are essentially a full attack, even though the creature isn't specifically using the full attack action (as required by haste). The earlier ruling did not allow the extra attack from haste when using spell combat.
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.
He's not get hand-based attacks like claws since he's using his hands to sword-fight and cast...that's why I'm going with the bite. I'm not even really using it "with spell combat"...I'm using it at the end of my full attack I made as part of spell combat.
As for what I want him to do...I want a competent melee character with various options, less concerned with sheer damage output. The fatigue, demoralize, and rime spell would all be debuffing effects, so they all would fit pretty well.
Thank you for this guide. It is amazing!
Minor correction:
When discussing the Enforcer feat, you mentioned that "there is also a trait in Faiths of Purity that let's you do non lethal damage with a regular slashing weapon at no attack penalty." But there is no such trait in Faiths of Purity.
There is a trait like the one you describe, but it is in Legacy of Fire. It is called Blade of Mercy.
There is also a trait in Champions of Purity called Weapon of Peace that lets you reduce the penalty for dealing nonlethal damage with a lethal weapon to -2.
And an update:
Half-elves can now get the Elven favored class option and get an extra hex arcana every 6 levels.
Half-Elf or Half-Orc: Can a character of either of these races select human racial archetypes (such as from Advanced Race Guide)?
Yes. Half-elves and half-orcs may select racial favored class options, archetypes, traits, and so on, as if they were a full member of both races (a half-elf can select elf and human rules elements, a half-orc can select human and orc rules elements).
Edit 9/26/13: This is a reversal of an earlier ruling. This resolves a discrepancy between this FAQ and two Advanced Player's Guide FAQs.
posted March 2013
Here's a build I've made that is more of a debuffer and feels more like a Witch with some Magus thrown in. The race is Tiefling. For flavor reasons, I don't particularly want a familiar or a high Charisma. Roleplaying as a loner with anger issues. This is for PFS, so no drawbacks for me.
Str 12, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 5
Traits: Magical Lineage (Frostbite), Wayang Spellhunter (Shocking Grasp)
1. Rime Spell
2.
3. Arcana: Arcane Accuracy, Enforcer
4. Hex Magus: Slumber
5. Bonus Feat: Blindfight, Combat Expertise
6. Hex Arcana: Flight
7. Moonlight Stalker
8.
9. Hex Arcana: Discord, Intensify Spell
10.
11. Arcana: Accurate Strike, Empower Spell
12. Hex Arcana: Ice Tomb.
Questions:
1. As is, my Intimidate modifier will match my class level throughout my career. Would that make Enforcer unfeasible?
2. I'm strongly considering working Additional Traits into the build so I can use Int for Intimidate instead of Cha. I'd take it at level 5 and pick up Wayang Spellhunter then so I could be intimidating from the beginning. I'd like to be more intimidating anyway for flavor. Were I to do that, it would delay Moonlight Stalker and Intensify Spell. At that point, would it be better just to give up on Moonlight Stalker and get more Hexes/Arcanas? A +2/+2 by level 7 already seems kinda minor for my build, but it especially seems that way by level 9.
3. Since I'm focusing on magic rather than melee, would it be better to take Wayang Spellhunter for a different spell and pick up Dazing instead of Intensify? My attack stat is a 12 (maybe a 14 if I switch it and Dex around) unless I fit Weapon Finesse in somewhere or spend the money on Agile. I'm already likely to have trouble hitting unless I burn a use of Arcane Accuracy anyway. I'm thinking it would be. No Fireball because it would be too late for me to use it in PFS. Any other good options?
4. How much good would dumping my Wisdom do? If I was to take it to 10 I could offset some of my Cha penalty and if I was to take it down to 9 I could make my Str a 14. If I was to take it down to 7 I could do both. It could be interesting roleplaying a low Wisdom character, so I'm good either way with that. However, dumping my Wisdom means low Will saves (even though it's a good one.) and having NO Perception (not a class skill). What would be worth it?
5. By the way, the hex Discord is quite awesome for flavor and doesn't seem too unreasonable for effectiveness. Take a couple of allies that already don't get along and turn them on each other.
Thoughts?
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If you are building it as more Witch (debuffer) then Magus (Direct Damage) then why are you burning feats on moonlight stalker? Those are strictly for offensive damage dealing.
If you want to be a heavy debuffer with some realistic damage dealing potential then drop the moonlight stalker line and replace blindfight with additional traits to get int to intimidate.
Then swap your Dex and Str (without dervish dance the high dex is kind of wasted) and swap out Combat Expertise for either Extra Hex:Prehensile Hair or improved Trip. This will allow you to spend one of those attacks to do a combat manoeuvre for more debuff goodness on top of your regular attacks.
Wisdom determines your will save & Sense Motive/Perception score and it's usually not a good idea to dump that but go for it if you want.
Dazing is a HEAVY metamagic with it's +3 spell level change so you can't use it before 7th level (with Wayang, 10th without it) and it consumes all of your high level spell slots. Usually not worth it at that point.
That's what I was thinking. I was just trying to do everything and it wasn't working. Half of the reason I was trying so hard to fit in Moonlight Stalker was for flavor reasons.
I was considering switching my Str and Dex, but I want a good Dex to help me get through the early levels before I get good defensive stuffs. Especially since I'm not planning on playing high enough level to get heavy armor anyway.
Is there any other good option for Wayang after 5th level besides Shocking Grasp? FWIW I was planning on my 4th trait to get me Perception as a class skill.
I can't take Additional Traits and Extra Arcana at 5th, since one of them must be a Combat feat or Metamagic. I'm leaning toward a relatively low cost metamagic like Extend, Empower, or Piercing. Merciful would come in handy, but flavor says no for me. Either that or Weapon Finesse if I keep my Dex as high as it is and then boost it, which I'm strongly considering since my end-game armor will likely be a Mithril Breastplate and I'm not sure how keen my character will be on shapechanging.
Speaking of that, is there a reason that Merciful Spell is missing from the Enforcer build? No room for it? No need for it since Frostbite alone is enough?
Absolutely my 7th level feat will likely be Extra Arcana for either Spell Blending, Spell Shield, Prehensile Hair, or Evil Eye. Or something else. Or Intensify Spell if I stick with Shocking Grasp.
The new Card Caster archetype seems compatible with the Hexcrafter; what's your opinion on it?
would you still advice the hex crafter in a game without traits (so no magical lineage)? And the moonlight feat chain knowing that you coundt get a cloak of displacement?
Personally, I would. The Hexcrafter is better regardless because access to Witch hexes is much more powerful than Spell Recall. No traits and no cloaks of displacement have similar effects on all Magi regardless of archetype. In fact, Hexcrafter may be even better in a no traits campaign since without Magical Lineage Magi have an even bigger problem with maintaining resources.
the cloack question was more about the moonlight feats chain tough
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That's what I was thinking. I was just trying to do everything and it wasn't working. Half of the reason I was trying so hard to fit in Moonlight Stalker was for flavor reasons.
I was considering switching my Str and Dex, but I want a good Dex to help me get through the early levels before I get good defensive stuffs. Especially since I'm not planning on playing high enough level to get heavy armor anyway.
Is there any other good option for Wayang after 5th level besides Shocking Grasp? FWIW I was planning on my 4th trait to get me Perception as a class skill.
I can't take Additional Traits and Extra Arcana at 5th, since one of them must be a Combat feat or Metamagic. I'm leaning toward a relatively low cost metamagic like Extend, Empower, or Piercing. Merciful would come in handy, but flavor says no for me. Either that or Weapon Finesse if I keep my Dex as high as it is and then boost it, which I'm strongly considering since my end-game armor will likely be a Mithril Breastplate and I'm not sure how keen my character will be on shapechanging.
Speaking of that, is there a reason that Merciful Spell is missing from the Enforcer build? No room for it? No need for it since Frostbite alone is enough?
Absolutely my 7th level feat will likely be Extra Arcana for either Spell Blending, Spell Shield, Prehensile Hair, or Evil Eye. Or something else. Or Intensify Spell if I stick with Shocking Grasp.
There are 10,000 different ways to build a character so the only thing that matters is what you want the character to do.
The best defense is a good offense.Now to address your questions.
1. Wayang is a valid choice for any spell you intend to use with a metamagic feat. Once you narrow down what metamagic you want to take it lets you know what spells will be most effective with it.
2. We don't use merciful because the build is designed around frostbite which doesn't need it.
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The new Card Caster archetype seems compatible with the Hexcrafter; what's your opinion on it?
The card caster is a terrible archetype for the same reason that the Myrmidarch is terrible, it doesn't have any synergy with the default magus abilities.
Remember, it only modifies how spellstrike and Arcane Pool work so it's not compatible with spellcombat. This means you can never use your harrow deck in the same round you cast a spell.
Anytime you want to use your Harrowed Spellstrike ability you have to wait until the round after you cast a spell to make your attack.
This archetype is even worse then the myrmidarch in many ways to be honest. It treats your harrow deck as AMMUNITION meaning it's destroyed when it hits the target and requires you to burn your swift action every round you want to use your cards. You will never be able to use an arcana on any turn you actually want to attack with your signature ability.
Honestly, if you want to play gambit then you really need to look at the witch archetype Cartomancer, since they can actually cast a spell and attack with the card in that same round. The Card caster cannot.
Are there any alternatives to shocking grasp or frostbite to take advantage of metamagic with? I've been thinking hard about a debuff hexcrafter that focuses on shutting down enemies? How about Ill Omen or Bestow Curse? I'm building with a winter campaign in mind.
I would be leery of Bestow Curse just because it allows a save, and while Ill Omen is great, I'm not sure how you would Metamagic it. I like to give a Wand of Ill Omen to my Familiar to spam.
Trip costs top many feats and doesn't work on enough enemies. If it flies, or has no legs, or has too many legs, or is too large, you can't trip it.
My master banned Slumber when i proposed an hexcrafter bladebound for his game , he told me that he Will give it to only a witch .
Spell combat true strike with a whip works well for trip magi (also for disarm). I have a build here that uses a variety of different magi tricks, including tripping.
How about Blindness/Deafness for a debuffing Hexcrafter? Bouncing or Persistent would make for a good use of metamagic with it. Yes, it allows a save. However, by the time you consider that a debuffing Hexcrafter will have more than average trouble with hitting with his attacks (focusing on Int means lower Str and you only have so much Arcane Accuracy or True Strike) you already have a chance of Shocking Grasp not working much either. The proper metamagic makes it much more likely to be effective.
A Bouncing Blind/Deaf with Wayang is level 2 and a Persistent one is level 3. I agree that it's better for your main combat spells to be lower level if possible, but the fact that it's a medium range spell that doesn't require an attack roll makes it a better option in certain builds imo.
Why not use your INT for attack and damage?
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When I access this guide at the Zenith Games Guide to the Guides link to it, I get the guide, but Google Docs always gives the warning message "File will be deleted soon" / "You won't be able to access this file soon as it may have been trashed. If you still need access, please sign in to make a copy or download it."
I'd hate for this guide to just disappear.
I did make a copy, just in case it actually does go poof.