Was I guilty of being a bad guest?


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Silver Crusade Contributor

Freehold DM wrote:
I like Carlin in limited doses.

I liked his books.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

My dad has a vinyl album of his that has no swearing on it.


:)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Tacticslion wrote:
The problem with Carlin's idea is that then literally anything you say is perfectly okay as long as you mean it in jest. Considering words have actual meanings and some people attach great significance to those meanings, he is fundamentally incorrect. Words are used as a form of communication. If you communicate something hurtful, even on accident, you are still being hurtful and should change.

It's important to remember thqt Carlin was a comedian, not a philosopher, or a social scientist, and a lot of what he says, we can accept because he was saying it on stage and most importantly... had the talent to be funny while doing it.

Using George Carlin's standup routine as a blunt force model for one's social interactions can prove very hazardous to your standing in society.


That's entirely my own opinion and interpretation of the thing. :D


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I like to avoid swearing myself. Not out of genuine disgust at the words, but for effect. See, if you manage to be known as the person who doesn't swear, that means when you do, people realize that you mean business!


That is a common argument. I believe I have quite enough Intimidate to show people I do mean business if I do.


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Maybe it's just a personal thing but the thought of not being able to control what you say seems very odd to me. Even when I was younger and swore a lot I could always shut it off for school or parents, etc.. I guess that's why I didn't have trouble giving it up completely when I had kids.

Grand Lodge

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Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
the thought of not being able to control what you say seems very odd to me.

It's like people keep saying in this thread; everyone is different, and just because one person is able to do something with ease, does not mean everyone else can do likewise...

I'm not saying this of you, but people (in general) love to claim, "If I can do it, so can you!". But that's just not true.


Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Maybe it's just a personal thing but the thought of not being able to control what you say seems very odd to me. Even when I was younger and swore a lot I could always shut it off for school or parents, etc.. I guess that's why I didn't have trouble giving it up completely when I had kids.

Shutting it off for school or parents is one thing. That's code switching. Different circumstance, different behavior/speech patterns. Very common.

Shutting it off in the same circumstances you usually do it freely, but with maybe one person who now objects to it - that's harder.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
thejeff wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Maybe it's just a personal thing but the thought of not being able to control what you say seems very odd to me. Even when I was younger and swore a lot I could always shut it off for school or parents, etc.. I guess that's why I didn't have trouble giving it up completely when I had kids.

Shutting it off for school or parents is one thing. That's code switching. Different circumstance, different behavior/speech patterns. Very common.

Shutting it off in the same circumstances you usually do it freely, but with maybe one person who now objects to it - that's harder.

Well in regards to the OP (which I realize is very old now), the no swearing policy was in place since the beginning so it was the expected behavior for a year and a half. I agree if you have a group that's comfortable with that language, adding a new guy that doesn't like it should not automatically change the group dynamic. I also feel you should have a choice about what (and who) you allow in your home.


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Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Maybe it's just a personal thing but the thought of not being able to control what you say seems very odd to me. Even when I was younger and swore a lot I could always shut it off for school or parents, etc.. I guess that's why I didn't have trouble giving it up completely when I had kids.

Shutting it off for school or parents is one thing. That's code switching. Different circumstance, different behavior/speech patterns. Very common.

Shutting it off in the same circumstances you usually do it freely, but with maybe one person who now objects to it - that's harder.

Well in regards to the OP (which I realize is very old now), the no swearing policy was in place since the beginning so it was the expected behavior for a year and a half. I agree if you have a group that's comfortable with that language, adding a new guy that doesn't like it should not automatically change the group dynamic. I also feel you should have a choice about what (and who) you allow in your home.

Sure. And it should be easier to adjust going into a new situation. You're probably going to spend some time getting a grip on the group dynamics anyway.


thejeff wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Maybe it's just a personal thing but the thought of not being able to control what you say seems very odd to me. Even when I was younger and swore a lot I could always shut it off for school or parents, etc.. I guess that's why I didn't have trouble giving it up completely when I had kids.

Shutting it off for school or parents is one thing. That's code switching. Different circumstance, different behavior/speech patterns. Very common.

Shutting it off in the same circumstances you usually do it freely, but with maybe one person who now objects to it - that's harder.

Well in regards to the OP (which I realize is very old now), the no swearing policy was in place since the beginning so it was the expected behavior for a year and a half. I agree if you have a group that's comfortable with that language, adding a new guy that doesn't like it should not automatically change the group dynamic. I also feel you should have a choice about what (and who) you allow in your home.

Sure. And it should be easier to adjust going into a new situation. You're probably going to spend some time getting a grip on the group dynamics anyway.

As long as you agree I'm right, I can't ask for anything more.


Freehold DM wrote:
I like Carlin in limited doses.

That's fair. His routines are pretty intense.

Carlin began one of his later-life bits with: "I like people. But I like them in short bursts."

Being an introvert, I really relate to that. :D


LazarX wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
The problem with Carlin's idea is that then literally anything you say is perfectly okay as long as you mean it in jest. Considering words have actual meanings and some people attach great significance to those meanings, he is fundamentally incorrect. Words are used as a form of communication. If you communicate something hurtful, even on accident, you are still being hurtful and should change.

It's important to remember thqt Carlin was a comedian, not a philosopher, or a social scientist, and a lot of what he says, we can accept because he was saying it on stage and most importantly... had the talent to be funny while doing it.

Using George Carlin's standup routine as a blunt force model for one's social interactions can prove very hazardous to your standing in society.

QFT. Like many performers, there are different ways to interpret Carlin's acts:

1. We can take everything he said at face value, and thus come to the conclusion that he was a nutcase.

2. We can take everything he said as total BS, and thus reason that he only said it because people think it's funny and were willing to pay to hear it.

3. We can take everything he said with a grain of salt, and look for an underlying message. Which in Carlin's case is "Question everything."

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Tequila Sunrise wrote:

Carlin began one of his later-life bits with: "I like people. But I like them in short bursts."

Being an introvert, I really relate to that. :D

I find my four hour PFS sessions to be perfect chunks of time. :D


Aranna wrote:

How we speak has much the same effect as the clothes you wear. It shapes how others see us and how we see ourselves. If you speak like a street ganger then it will have much the same effect around others as dressing as a street ganger. It may be perfect for when you are hanging with a street gang but would likely cost you a job in an interview. Just as speaking in proper business manner will impress at an interview but leave you looking like a sell out to your gang buddies.

I have learned that it is a simple matter to adjust my speech to match the occasion. Think of it like role playing (something we should all be familiar with); if you are at a high society party then you speak with proper enunciation with no trace of any vulgarities and maybe even spruce up your language with a few attractive and witty words... just like the gown and jewelry you are wearing. Become high society in a high society event and you will be well received, change language to match the image you are presenting at the time.

Also it is a bit revealing the language people choose to use when they are being casual. When you are in casual mode you are at your most comfortable this is the closest to the real you.

People have many, situational, selves. The casual isn't the purest example of the real. A person lazing around in their undies and eating pizza in their time-off is not the full or complete reality of being that person, and if it is rarely who they are and why they are typically being it is questionable that this is the real, essentialised "them".

The casual as the real is complicated by those that spend so much more time being another version of themselves. Professionals, those that really give to and enjoy their work and roles, are they more real at work or casually? Jumping to say the casual is the real and everything else isn't seems a stretch. What if someone has worked a position for decades and their identity and place is really bound to this? The real then is what they are day in and day out.

I like to relax and chill out, or go casual with a few friends, but that isn't my true self. I have clients I help in my professional capacity, and when I am at my best with them and am challenged to do better and do more, that feels far more real, positive and varied than losing myself in a game or shooting the breeze with some old buddies.

I don't think the casual is the only place for realness or one's true identity.

Scarab Sages

@OP: Did you make some mistakes of your own? It sounds like you did - I certainly wouldn't be comfortable going through someone else's refrigerator like that, nor be happy with someone who did it to me. For my money, however, their refusing to say anything at the time at any of these points, then kicking you out via proxy with no chance to speak on your own behalf, is cowardly, deceitful, and unfair. There's no excuse for that.


Drinking the host's milk for 2 years should be a hanging offense. ;)

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DM Under The Bridge wrote:
Drinking the host's milk for 2 years should be a hanging offense. ;)

The same could be said for kicking this dead horse of a thread.


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Not to mention responding to someone kicking it. =)


DM Under The Bridge wrote:
Aranna wrote:

How we speak has much the same effect as the clothes you wear. It shapes how others see us and how we see ourselves. If you speak like a street ganger then it will have much the same effect around others as dressing as a street ganger. It may be perfect for when you are hanging with a street gang but would likely cost you a job in an interview. Just as speaking in proper business manner will impress at an interview but leave you looking like a sell out to your gang buddies.

I have learned that it is a simple matter to adjust my speech to match the occasion. Think of it like role playing (something we should all be familiar with); if you are at a high society party then you speak with proper enunciation with no trace of any vulgarities and maybe even spruce up your language with a few attractive and witty words... just like the gown and jewelry you are wearing. Become high society in a high society event and you will be well received, change language to match the image you are presenting at the time.

Also it is a bit revealing the language people choose to use when they are being casual. When you are in casual mode you are at your most comfortable this is the closest to the real you.

People have many, situational, selves. The casual isn't the purest example of the real. A person lazing around in their undies and eating pizza in their time-off is not the full or complete reality of being that person, and if it is rarely who they are and why they are typically being it is questionable that this is the real, essentialised "them".

The casual as the real is complicated by those that spend so much more time being another version of themselves. Professionals, those that really give to and enjoy their work and roles, are they more real at work or casually? Jumping to say the casual is the real and everything else isn't seems a stretch. What if someone has worked a position for decades and their identity and place is really bound to this? The real then is what they are day in and day out.

I like to relax and chill out, or go casual with a few friends, but that isn't my true self. I have clients I help in my professional capacity, and when I am at my best with them and am challenged to do better and do more, that feels far more real, positive and varied than losing myself in a game or shooting the breeze with some old buddies.

I don't think the casual is the only place for realness or one's true identity.

I am NOT talking about laying around in your undies. I am talking about the sort of dress you wear when you are just hanging out with people you are totally comfortable around... although maybe you hang out with others in your undies? The image is amusing anyway; imagining you showing up at your buddies house in just your undies. My father for example is an engineer, he dresses in slacks and either a button down shirt or a golf shirt... this is his casual AND his business attire. It's him at his most comfortable. That is what I mean by casual. That 'most comfortable' dress style is closest to the real you. Do you understand now?


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Aranna wrote:
....I am NOT talking about laying around in your undies. I am talking about the sort of dress you wear when you are just hanging out with people you are totally comfortable around... although maybe you hang out with others in your undies?...

Sheev does. clicky


õ . O


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Aranna wrote:
DM Under The Bridge wrote:
Aranna wrote:

How we speak has much the same effect as the clothes you wear. It shapes how others see us and how we see ourselves. If you speak like a street ganger then it will have much the same effect around others as dressing as a street ganger. It may be perfect for when you are hanging with a street gang but would likely cost you a job in an interview. Just as speaking in proper business manner will impress at an interview but leave you looking like a sell out to your gang buddies.

I have learned that it is a simple matter to adjust my speech to match the occasion. Think of it like role playing (something we should all be familiar with); if you are at a high society party then you speak with proper enunciation with no trace of any vulgarities and maybe even spruce up your language with a few attractive and witty words... just like the gown and jewelry you are wearing. Become high society in a high society event and you will be well received, change language to match the image you are presenting at the time.

Also it is a bit revealing the language people choose to use when they are being casual. When you are in casual mode you are at your most comfortable this is the closest to the real you.

People have many, situational, selves. The casual isn't the purest example of the real. A person lazing around in their undies and eating pizza in their time-off is not the full or complete reality of being that person, and if it is rarely who they are and why they are typically being it is questionable that this is the real, essentialised "them".

The casual as the real is complicated by those that spend so much more time being another version of themselves. Professionals, those that really give to and enjoy their work and roles, are they more real at work or casually? Jumping to say the casual is the real and everything else isn't seems a stretch. What if someone has worked a position for decades and their identity and place is really bound

...

You are trying to say how people dress is who they really are?

You might want to think a bit further than fashion.

To reiterate in case you haven't got it yet, people relaxing in a casual state is not all that they are, nor is it guaranteed to be who they see themselves to be, what is most important in their identity to themselves, nor does going casual cover their roles and repeated behaviour in these roles, nor is it indicative of their most central characteristics and character. Going casual may not even cover who they are most of the time, how they actually see themselves and their essential being, or what they are most comfortable being in the world.

The casual isn't just or simply the real.


Aranna wrote:
I am NOT talking about laying around in your undies. I am talking about the sort of dress you wear when you are just hanging out with people you are totally comfortable around... although maybe you hang out with others in your undies? The image is amusing anyway; imagining you showing up at your buddies house in just your undies. My father for example is an engineer, he dresses in slacks and either a button down shirt or a golf shirt... this is his casual AND his business attire. It's him at his most comfortable. That is what I mean by casual. That 'most comfortable' dress style is closest to the real you. Do you understand now?

No, how I dress when I hang out with friends says far more about their standard of dress/formality than it does mine.

Also, the example is flawed because while that state of dress may be your father at his most natural; it is also acceptable dress in virtually 100% of his social settings. That won't be true for everyone.

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