| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hygiene tip:
...and if you play a guy's house that requires you remove your shoes at the door, please make sure you have clean socks on. Wearing, dingy, crusty brown smelly ass socks completely defeats the purpose of taking off your shoes.
The more you know...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I just have to ask: The "S" in your name doesn't stand for "Statham," does it?
My wife wishes I was (he's one of her 'favorite' actors... lol)! I think the other Jason is pretty busy these days.
Hygiene tip:
...and if you play a guy's house that requires you remove your shoes at the door, please make sure you have clean socks on. Wearing, dingy, crusty brown smelly ass socks completely defeats the purpose of taking off your shoes.The more you know...
Which is why I wear flip-flops when I'm not on the farm. Although my Monday night game, I am in pajamas and slippers.
Hence why we tend to pop our shoes off. :)
Yeah, you and cyz are good about that. The same isn't necessarily true of some other guests, which is why I sort of gave up on it on game days.
Hence why we tend to pop our shoes off. :)Yeah, you and cyz are good about that. The same isn't necessarily true of some other guests, which is why I sort of gave up on it on game days.
Huh, you two play together?
If nothing else, this thread illustrates the infinite variations in our domestic culture, which, in some cases, is mildy surprising.
Yeah, this is exactly what I was saying. It's all sociological. I'm curious to see if most of the similar opinions are in the same countries/areas.
I bet the "respect my house, kick him out" people are mostly American. This isn't meant to be an insult or anything, I'm just saying that America has redefined it's ideas on etiquette compared to Europe.
Sweet. The more you know... Must be a hell of a game.
Everybody I know in Taiwan removes shoes at the door. Everybody, including expats.
I went back to South Africa to bury my dad, and was aghast at the state of the floors. I removed my shoes and was told I was being rude, and had no business taking off my shoes in a house I had inherited half of....
|
The guarantee of six hours game time does help. Unlike my local game, which was cut down to three hours max.
3 hours max!?!?!?! That's crazy! The kids game I run lasts for 5 hours on average and the two adult groups I am part of last anywhere from 5 (minimum) to 14 (maximum) hours. Of course there is a meal break or two mixed into those really long sessions. ;)
As to the OP, yep, sorry, sounds like you were not an ideal guest. Just learn from the experience (which hopefully you will do, but based on some of the responses you posted, I have a bit of doubt) and move on.
|
There's a reason I dropped the local game. (Mostly because another local game was found that also runs for six hours.)6 hours is the sweet spot. It's no 3.5(!) hours, but I drive about 45 minutes one-way to my one group. I would probably drive further if needed!
Keep in mind, I'm talking Texas-local. The other games were/are an hour and a half away.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don't understand how the OP thought it was ok to dig into the host's fridge every session because it they said it was ok that one time. I don't even dig into my parents' fridge without asking every time.Not to diss on your parents, but this is very unusual. The OP may or may not be guilty of imposing on his hosts, but some hosts really are glad to share their bounty with guests. I think GrenMeera will back me up on this one.
Anecdotally, I've never met a parent who wanted to be asked permission from their own children to help themselves. Unless it's a young kid making a mess, or a high kid with the munchies clearing the whole fridge out. In fact I have friends with parents who would laugh at me if I were to ask permission to grab a drink or whatever. "Since when do you need permission? Haha!" This may be atypical too, but it's not rare IME.
Hello, I'm a perent who expects my kids to ask permission to help themselves to something. My kids are 3, 4, and 6. I DO EXPECT and reqire them to ask to go into the fridge, even the 6 year old.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I know that, I'm just getting to an origin of the custom of removing one's shoes and why it can be considered a big deal to people.
One more perspective... If the house has carpet crawlers, and you are coming from a place that has had lead paint in the past (even if it was remediated etc) taking of your shoes SIGNIFICANTLY reduces the risk of lead poisoning for those kids.
I am another Northerner who asks people to take of thier shoes. Most do, and the few that are askance at the request, I am not going to sweat. Conversely, it is often weird for me to go to someones home and leave my shoes on, though I take my cue from the host.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
If nothing else, this thread illustrates the infinite variations in our domestic culture, which, in some cases, is mildy surprising.Yeah, this is exactly what I was saying. It's all sociological. I'm curious to see if most of the similar opinions are in the same countries/areas.
I bet the "respect my house, kick him out" people are mostly American. This isn't meant to be an insult or anything, I'm just saying that America has redefined it's ideas on etiquette compared to Europe.
Kick out or ask not to return?
I think there is a pretty big difference between the two.
You can be the most polite host, but once the rude guest is gone, you have no responsibility to continue to have them over. There is being polite and then there is just playing the martyr.
It's just as likely that the people who tout the "I have a right to be rude" are also Americans. Americans are generally known as the rudest people on the planet. We even keep this up as a tradition on the Olympics, the American team is the only team that won't dip it's flag to that of the host country. We've chastised our President for being polite to other world leaders. I think that says it all.
Yeah, you are very correct on those two points! ^.^
I will say though that I believe the guest versus host etiquette has grown to favor the host in American culture. I fully believe that there is no "right" or "wrong" culture, but there are certainly cultural differences that surprise me.
Let me share an interesting example. This is NOT meant to be a criticism of a people, this is a cultural difference and nothing more. India has generally stayed very old fashioned in it's stance with guest/host relationships.
As an American, I have been extraordinarily surprised about the giving nature of a host while in India. I had to try to politely tell them to stop handing me things as gifts.
I have also had my patience severely tested when inviting these friends into my home. One of them walked out with a bag that he brought full of my refrigerated goods. >.>
In the end, every culture will view this differently. America favors the host (when pride doesn't get in the way for the case of the Olympics), while India can be viewed as favoring the guest.
You can be the most polite host, but once the rude guest is gone, you have no responsibility to continue to have them over. There is being polite and then there is just playing the martyr.
I don't think any rules of etiquette have a problem with not inviting somebody back. ^.^ You NEVER have to invite somebody back if you don't want to. Even vampire myths have adhered to this tradition. ^.^
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Gotta say, I'm a bit confused by this. WHY does it matter WHAT he took? Where is the 'it's JUST milk' attitude coming from?When company visits your house (be it friends, or professional visits of any kind, the Queen of England, or even some gamers), it's sorta courteous to offer something. Coffee, soda, beer if you got it. And if someone happens to want a glass of milk, Christ...ITS MILK. So no, it doesn't matter what the item is, there's a certain etiquette in hosting about offering something to your guests. Some of you do actually invite guests in don't you?
Lets be clear right off the bat - hosting a game night is not equivalent to hosting a dinner party. The host of a game night should not bear the full responsibility of providing for his guests as he would if he were having a party. The host has graciously offered up their home because a place was needed. In this situation the guests should overly contribute to the food and beverages. I DM and Host and my players bring drinks and snacks and pay for my share of the pizza BECAUSE I host and DM the game.
Was the dude wrong for taking it when he was told not to...I suppose so. But wouldn't have been an issue had the host been what I would consider decent.Again I stress, the host is doing you a favor by giving you a location to play - its not the other way around. This is NOT a party.
This.
100% this.
The Host is doing you a FAVOR by providing his/her establishment for the game. UNLESS the host IS the DM... then they are already getting a lot more responsibility heaped on their shoulders then any other player.
Everytime I hosted the game, I went out of my way to clean the house, shovel the drive, Stock up on toilet paper, mop the floor... JUST so I could have the privelage of having people show up and put my possessions at risk... There were more then one chair broken, more then one plate broken..
Nobody's fault, and it's all fine... But really?!? The host is expected to FEED everyone who comes over too??!?
The ONLY way that makes the LEAST amount of sense, is if it's a rotating game. Every player gets a turn in the rotation and provides a snack.
I haven't BEEN in a game like that. Typically between small apartments and kids and spouses, it's easier to pick one convient place and play there every week. Whoever has the best table/room setup and is the easiest to get to for the most people.
The Host has enough reponsibilities and we're putting them out enough, all in the interests of 'keeping the game going'. We can bring our own food.
I see it a little differently, insofar as the host doesn't have to drive. The risk and cost of someone breaking a plate don't come close to the risk and cost of an auto accident (Houston is near #1 for rear-end collisions). And in Texas, you've got crap to no public transportation, and everything is so sprawled out and traffic-y that it can easily take an hour of driving to get to a "local" game. Also, gas isn't cheap anymore.
That's a lot of cost, headache, risk, and time for the guests -- as opposed to the host, who incurs none of it.
I see it a little differently, insofar as the host doesn't have to drive. The risk and cost of someone breaking a plate don't come close to the risk and cost of an auto accident (Houston is near #1 for rear-end collisions). And in Texas, you've got crap to no public transportation, and everything is so sprawled out and traffic-y that it can easily take an hour of driving to get to a "local" game. Also, gas isn't cheap anymore.
That's a lot of cost, headache, risk, and time for the guests that the host isn't spending.
Oh I'll agree, saving gas is a wonderful perk. and I'll agree Texas sucks. (Drove a big rig for a year down there... >.< )
Where we're at, we're spread out about 40 minutes for the farthest players. And we used to drive over an hour to our weekly game. Carpooling made life a lot easier there, and we were dealing with Dorm rooms, so there wasn't the added resonsibilities of 'house, kids, spouse' that the host has to deal with now.
To say 'Your fridge is My fridge' because we're playing at YOUR house every single week... just boggles my mind.
To say 'Your fridge is My fridge' because we're playing at YOUR house every single week... just boggles my mind.
Look at my avatar, dude! That's a photograph of me DMing. So it's a good thing I'm host, so I don't have to drive! And if I'm constantly getting up to raid the fridge for beer, the least I can do is let my guests do the same, especially since they can't drink as much (and some don't drink at all, which I find bizarre and incomprehensible).
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
It's just as likely that the people who tout the "I have a right to be rude" are also Americans.
Who actually states this, outside of self-loathing fallacious fantasies?
Americans are generally known as the rudest people on the planet.
Only, we're not:
As for the rest, politics is supposed to be kept to the OT section.
To say 'Your fridge is My fridge' because we're playing at YOUR house every single week... just boggles my mind.Look at my avatar, dude! That's a photograph of me DMing. So it's a good thing I'm host, so I don't have to drive! And if I'm constantly getting up to raid the fridge for beer, the least I can do is let my guests do the same, especially since they can't drink as much (and some don't drink at all, which I find bizarre and incomprehensible).
Using my fridge to chill the drinks you've brought, or helping yourself to game night refreshments is one thing; rummaging around and saying, "Hitdice won't miss this lobster and Dom Perignon" is another.
It's not such an issue now that middle age and a steady income have hit, but pretty early on in my gaming career I realized, if you want chips and soda, you best had bring chips and soda; sharing is good manners, but you can't really depend on it.
Hell, the truth is I show up at parties with a six pack or a bottle of wine, never mind game night.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I see it a little differently, insofar as the host doesn't have to drive. The risk and cost of someone breaking a plate don't come close to the risk and cost of an auto accident (Houston is near #1 for rear-end collisions). And in Texas, you've got crap to no public transportation, and everything is so sprawled out and traffic-y that it can easily take an hour of driving to get to a "local" game. Also, gas isn't cheap anymore.
That's a lot of cost, headache, risk, and time for the guests -- as opposed to the host, who incurs none of it.
If every player in the group is fighting over getting to be host to avoid driving (due to the constant barrage of fender benders and high gas prices *snicker*) then that would change the dynamic. However, I have never experienced this. In my experience, deciding on who should host concludes with someone reluctantly accepting the responsibility.
As the DM and the host I have a lot to do before my players show up. I clean the house and I plan the game. My players are not driving to my house from the Dagobah system and they are certainly aren't under constant threat of being in a car accident. My players all drive less than 10 miles to be at my place.
My players are not driving to my house from the Dagobah system and they are certainly aren't under constant threat of being in a car accident. My players all drive less than 10 miles to be at my place.
See, like I said, your situation is a lot different from ours. I often have half the group traveling over 185 miles to get to the game (in my Savage Tide campaign a few years back, two of the players regularly drove in from Brenham, a mere 65 miles away).
Asphere must live in one of them there tiny states. :)
And one of them hippie liberal states with a lot of cars with good milage (as opposed to the giant trucks needed here to avoid the guy rear-ending you from driving OVER the vehicle and crushing it like a tin can).
If he snickers derisively at me when I mention the risk of accidents and the price of gas, I'd like him to try living here for a few months...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My players are not driving to my house from the Dagobah system
The NC-17 rated follow-up song is even better.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think we can all admit that there are benefits and drawbacks to both hosting and travelling. In the end, it probably comes down to personal preference (barring any unbalanced variables). Personally, I love hosting but I'm the odd-man-out in terms of distance from my one group .
@Kirth: I wonder what gaming in the USSR would have been like.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
OMG WHY!!!!!! WHY DID I CLICK IT!!!
NOOOooooo!
|
|
I have to admit that, as a host, it's important to recognize that there are a number of rules that essentially cannot be expected of guests, and you might as well give up trying.
1. The "no shoes" thing, which Mrs Gersen at first requested.
Am I really the only one that took my shoes off?
do you have a rug or something that sets apart a space by the entry way to store shoes? Sometimes a visual cue like that helps...
2. With shoes on in the house, I figured I could at least get them not to walk all over my Oriental rug with them on. Nope. Not happening -- people won't change their route over a floor covering. They're not being douchbags -- it just never occurs to them that the thing is even there. It's part of the scenery, not a physical object! So I ended up just moving the rug -- again, a lot simpler overall.
3. Trying to get people to not put trash in the recycling bin. In Texas, recycling apparently doesn't exist. Cans, bottles, etc. are all viewed simply as trash, and therefore get mixed in with trash, and it's a losing cause to try and educate guests regarding the difference. Usually I just tell everyone to leave their empties on the counter, and I clean and sort them afterwards.
I think I failed at this a couple times. :)
I like to host games. I have worked around some funny dietary restrictions while cooking for people (no gluten, kosher, food allergies that include milk, sulfites, apples and beef...) but you have to understand that if you have dietary restrictions, you have to ultimately be responsible for them. I what I can to accomodate people, but as my mom loved to say, "This isn't a restaurant."
Am I really the only one that took my shoes off? do you have a rug or something that sets apart a space by the entry way to store shoes? Sometimes a visual cue like that helps...
TOZ and cyz were usually very good about it, too. My previous groups, before you guys? Not so much.
I would have hoped the big wicker shoe rack right inside the door would be a visual cue, but I think it's like the rug -- people don't really visually register things like rugs and furniture that they already half-expect to see.Anyway, it's moot now, because if Bonzer (one of the kittens we adopted since the last time you were over) catches you with no shoes on, he might decide your foot is a snack or a toy... and therefore suitable to be torn apart and mangled.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's interesting and important and fun to note the important role culture plays here. Some people I have gamed with would have been offended if I brought food, others would have been aghast if we cooked food and had it waiting. As awkward as it can be, it's important to ask, especially if people are from different ethnic groups or even different parts of the country.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I find the whole post rather interesting, tbh.
I've been at games at friends' homes where I called their parents mom and dad and could go into the fridge if I felt like it and at other games where I'm pretty sure that over a 2 year period I never touched the fridge one time (except once to put something in it that I had brought for the host).
To me the greatest "issue" with the guy was not adhering to the "don't go into the fridge" stuff. While pizza isn't free, one guy's share isn't too big a deal and forgetting *three months later* to me is just something to bring up not throw the guy out for.
The striking thing really is that.. no one was willing to talk to the guy.
"Hey, please, I did ask not to drink the milk."
"oh I'm sorry, I totally forgot.. i won't do it again."
should it have touched it to begin with? of course not. but the reminding usually will bring with it an apology and then shouldn't happen again.
Forgetting the cash- same thing. "hey you forgot the money" "oh crap you are right, sorry guys" and such.. though forgeting the 2nd time around does start to sound abit like a mooch.
Snack thing, am ambivalent on.
We all usually do and always have brought our own but the host usually also has something for the group. Not sure why but throughout all different groups it tends to hammer out that way. so odd.
Assuming all else is equal and it went down as you said it did:
No means no. No excuses, really. Its their stuff, if no fridge then no fridge, even if the rule used to be "sure, fridge".
Remember to repay your buds.
The 2nd trip that you showed up to with no money would have been an excellent time to jot down an address and drop a $20 into the mail (assuming 3 month wait was due to distance) or even just make abso-freaking-lutely sure you bring cash the next time. (put a 20 in the middle of your CRB or something).
You Can remember. You just have to decide to make it your priority.
-S
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have to admit that, as a host, it's important to recognize that there are a number of rules that essentially cannot be expected of guests, and you might as well give up trying.
1. The "no shoes" thing, which Mrs Gersen at first requested. Nobody (except maybe players who have lived in Japan) will ever take their shoes off in your home unless you physically stop them at the door and specifically ask them each time they enter. No matter how many times they visit, and no matter how many people show up at once, I found myself having to do this with each person individually, with each visit. Even then, you get looks from people as if you're telling them to strip naked. I long ago gave up and figured it wasn't worth it -- cleaning up afterwards is a lot easier than enforcing the policy.
2. With shoes on in the house, I figured I could at least get them not to walk all over my Oriental rug with them on. Nope. Not happening -- people won't change their route over a floor covering. They're not being douchbags -- it just never occurs to them that the thing is even there. It's part of the scenery, not a physical object! So I ended up just moving the rug -- again, a lot simpler overall.
As a rule, I take my shoes off everywhere. Though admittedly it can be hard to get others to do it at my place :-/
As for the rug... THAT should probably be mentioned to them. It may be just a misunderstanding over the 'value' of the rug. In MY family, we always put down rugs to PROTECT the carpet or wood floor. Rugs can be replaced, where 'heavy traffic areas' can make a whole room look terrible after just a few months..
My rugs are MEANT to be walked on, and if I was at your place, I'd have just assumed the same thing. I would have thought 'walking on the carpet' would have been the 'more rude' thing, and would CERTAINLY adjust accordingly if you told me the rug held a special value to you.
if you make people take off their shoes, you must have tapochki.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Personally, I'm mindful of my host.
1. I don't chip in for food, I don't eat. (Unless I'm offered)
2. If I need a drink, I'll ask first if I may have a glass of water. I don't drink anything else unless offered.
3. If I see something I really like, I ask if I can have it and offer to replace it in the future.
4. Being Asian, I understand the no shoes rule and take mine off.
5. I don't ask for access to their wifi unless it's an urgent matter requiring connection.
6. If the host's parents are present and I have sharable food, I will offer them some.
7. I don't touch anything unless I'm given permission to.
8. I don't bring alcohol unless I've been given permission by the host.
Never had conflict since following these rules.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I still feel it is about communication. I hosted gamers in my house for years. Never had a problem because we talked to the gamers each time about what was allowed and what wasn't allowed. Not everyone attended each time.
If we were short of something, we let everyone know. Even put a sign on the fridge 'the potato salad is for a barbeque tomorrow, please don't eat any of it'.
The hosts got mad, but apparently didn't verbally communicate. They sohuld have. It is very easy to do so. Don't presume everyone knows how you want your home to be used by guests.
We tell guests, there is the fridge, help yourself, with the above exception. We even cooked food, or ordered pizza, for when all of us gamers were short of money to bring snacks.
No one was expected to go hungry while the rest of us ate. That would be very rude.
Edited a typo on one word.
We tell guests, there is the fridge, help yourself, with the above exception. We even cooked food, or ordered pizza, for when all of us gamers were short of money to bring snacks.
No one was expected to go hungry while the rest of us ate. That would be very rude.
More people need to be like this. Bravo!
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Oh sure, it's all fun and games then when everyone is fed!
But the food itself was never the issue here. The guy didn't pay back loans and stole and swore.
If the pals you were cooking for decided to help themselves to your aftershave, or deodorant, or porn mags, suddenly you find yourselves right back where these hosts were with the milk...someone who is crossing boundaries that he has been asked not to cross.
At best, he was an oblivious inconsiderate toolbag.
Everyone who has said "oh, it was just milk, they sound like uptight pricks", do you REALLY believe that ANYONE who comes into your house can take WHATEVER they want from you? And that not only do you have no right to say no, but that they have the right to get indignant about it if you do?
And this wasn't just anyone who was told no, it was the pizza bum who swears without regard for others and never has pizza money but always plenty of room for pizza. Can't pay your rent with promises to get you next time.
It doesn't shock me that he behaved like that, because his disappearance suggests he was just trolling anyways. But for people on this thread to state things like
"politeness makes me suspicious"
"people who complain when others take things they were asked not to are just uptight"
"swearing is a sign of maturity, being offended is a sign of immaturity"
It just boggles the mind.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Wow...are you shocked to discover gamers with poor socail skills and no sense of socail contract? If so, can I sell you a bridge?
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
It's kind of appalling though when people think that being a gamer is an excuse for same.Wow...are you shocked to discover gamers with poor socail skills and no sense of socail contract? If so, can I sell you a bridge?
I'd agree, it is appalling.
As evidenced in this thread, a fair portion of folks have the mentality that this rude, inconsiderate behavior is no big deal, and, in fact, is completely appropriate and that they shouldn't be considered anything but perfect guests because of it.
The gamer community (tabletop, MMO, video, etc.) seems to have an inordinate amount of people with poor social skills who seek to excuse their behavior by self-diagnosing themselves with social disorders and then rather than seek help/treatment/counseling for such, instead revel in it and expect everyone to treat them like the special snowflake that they think they are. This is what leads to comments like "Did you really expect better from gamers?"
It's a "ME ME ME, IT'S ALL ABOUT ME!" mentality at it's worst extreme.
It's really quite boorish and tiresome, and one of the big reasons I myself am attempting to recruit new members to our group from someplace OTHER than the FLGS. I want to game, but I don't want to game with the typical gamers (of which we've seen a number of in this thread), or their apologists, being described.
There really isn't an excuse for this kind of behavior.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
For my part, I only game with cool people.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This thread saddens me for two reasons:
1) That there are plenty of inconsiderate people out there.
2) There are an equal number of awesome, polite, and intelligent people out there that I will never game with because they live hundreds or thousands of miles away!