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A lance is a two-handed weapon... except when you use it mounted it becomes a one-handed weapon. So can you really TWF with 2 lances while mounted ?
I'm pretty sure that you can get feats or archetype abilities that allow you to make 2 attacks (one with each weapon) as a standard action, a.k.a. a charge, including the extra damage on both weapons.
>.<
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Charge is a special full round action which makes an attack, not a standard action.
Charge is a special full round action which makes an attack, not a standard action.
Unless Slowed or Surprise round, then he can do as a standard.
Well then, can AM BARBARIAN TWOWEAPONRAGELANCEPOUNCE?Charge is a special full round action which makes an attack, not a standard action.
He only gets the double damage on the first attack IIRC.
I don't remember if there was an official ruling on the two lancer part of the question or not.
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Yes. You can also turn bat guano into fire by speaking loud enough.
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Lance: If I have the pounce ability and I charge with a lance, do my iterative lance attacks get the lance's extra damage multiplier from charging?
No, for two reasons.
One, because a lance only deals extra damage when you’re riding a charging mount—not when you are charging.
Two, even if you have an unusual combination of rules that allows you to ignore the above limitation, it doesn’t makes sense that those iterative attacks gain the damage bonus. To make that second attack, you have to pull the lance back and stab forward again, and that stab doesn’t have the benefit of the charge’s momentum. (The Core Rulebook doesn’t state that you only get the damage multiplier on the first attack with a lance because when the Core Rulebook was published, there was no way for a PC to charge and get multiple attacks with a weapon in the same round, so that combination didn’t need to be addressed.)
—Sean K Reynolds, 03/01/12
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Threads like this makes me die a little inside.
Me too, qutoes, me too.
Unless Slowed or Surprise round, then he can do as a standard.Charge is a special full round action which makes an attack, not a standard action.
Even then charge is a special standard action which happens to include a melee attack, not the attack action.
A lance is a two-handed weapon... except when you use it mounted it becomes a one-handed weapon. So can you really TWF with 2 lances while mounted ?
I'm pretty sure that you can get feats or archetype abilities that allow you to make 2 attacks (one with each weapon) as a standard action, a.k.a. a charge, including the extra damage on both weapons.
And hit with both while charging? No. Otherwise... :)
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So...to sum up what everyone said. You don't get a full attack at the end of a charge, and even if you somehow do (RAGELANCEPOUNCE) the extra damage only applies to the FIRST attack...stop trying to break the game or the sock gnomes will poo in your socks before you wear them.
Yeah. Basically, you CAN do it, but it's not very effective AFAIK.
go mounted archery......bows rool
I do kind like the idea of someone riding into battle with a lance under each arm
Well then, can AM BARBARIAN TWOWEAPONRAGELANCEPOUNCE?Charge is a special full round action which makes an attack, not a standard action.
He only gets the double damage on the first attack IIRC.
I don't remember if there was an official ruling on the two lancer part of the question or not.
No, that was if he wasn't riding a mount. The FAQ assumed he meant off a mount.
I would say that 2 Lances used via 2WF COULD both apply increased damage (for attacking from a Charging Mount) just going from SKR's ruling... A Lance deals extra damage when used from a Charging Mount, which applies to both. You are just getting one extra damage attack from each Lance, so SKR's invocation against Iteratives doesn't really apply. Obviously, you still need a way to take multiple attacks when your Mount charges (Pounce, 2WF Fighter, Mobile Fighter, etc)
In the end, it's the same equation as normal 2WF: instead of 1 attack, you get 2, with an attack penalty (pretty large in the case of non-light off-hand weapons, unless you are signifigantly advanced in the 2wf fighter archetype) and the off-hand always deals 'only' 1/2 STR bonus to DMG.
honestly, until Paizo clears up a bunch of rules for Mounted Combat, and interactions of the Mounts' actions with your own, as well as Charge specific rules, relying on RAW is just going to come up with really wonky results.
when the Core Rulebook was published, there was no way for a PC to charge and get multiple attacks with a weapon in the same round, so that combination didn’t need to be addressed
but the rules also apply to non-PCs.
creature with Pounce -> awaken/polymorph as needed to use Lances -> Lance Pounce per Core Rules.
The reason I ask this is because if I take the Two-Weapon Warrior's ability...
Doublestrike (Ex): At 9th level, a two-weapon warrior may, as a standard action, make one attack with both his primary and secondary weapons. The penalties for attacking with two weapons apply normally. This ability replaces weapon training 2.
...I can choose to make two attacks every time I'm entitled to only one attack, movement+attack or charge+attack, similar to cross-slashing with two swords. It's not the pounce ability, it's another that allows me to make 2 attacks when I should get only one... unless I'm reading it wrong...
In the 3.5 Player's Handbook 2, there was a feat called Two-Weapon Pounce, which allowed to you to exchange your +2 to attack rolls during a charge for an attack with your off-hand weapon. The way I see Doublestrike, stated above, it sounds like I could do such a technique with 2 lances, hence dealing double damage for each lance at the end of a charge, because it's not a bunch of iterative attacks.
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The attack at the end of a charge is not a standard action!
So...to sum up what everyone said. You don't get a full attack at the end of a charge, and even if you somehow do (RAGELANCEPOUNCE) the extra damage only applies to the FIRST attack...stop trying to break the game or the sock gnomes will poo in your socks before you wear them.
SKR's ruling was for iterative attacks, ie from a high bab bonus. Two separate lances would be a different question. As both have momentum when they're stabbed they don't need to be drawn back at all.
Realistically its a little bit out there but come on, its a FANTASY game. The spell casters aren't the only ones who get to bend the laws of physics. If you can make a 35 pound halfling that can wrestle a 2 ton elephant to the ground then holding onto 2 lances effectively in combat should be a cakewalk.
Mechanically there's a few different ways to pull this off. A beastmorph alchemist gaining pounce, the fighter two weapon fighting archtype could do this as well(i think), as well as the good old pouncing barbarian.
it dosent change the type from two handed to one handed while charging. so you cannot duel wield a two handed weapon UNLESs you are a titan mauler.
Being on a horse lets you wield the lance in one hand.
Lance: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.
So the answer is yes you can 2 weapon fight with lances while mounted but you cannot gain the benefit of a charge with lance on both lances at the same time. Pounce Only applies while you are charging, Not while your mount is charging. They could be used to do a full attack using ridet by attack however
Pounce Only applies while you are charging, Not while your mount is charging.
When the mount is charging you are charging.
Pounce Only applies while you are charging, Not while your mount is charging.When the mount is charging you are charging.
Indeed. In fact, it doesn't make sense any other way when you consider what the rules are intending to model.
So the answer is yes you can 2 weapon fight with lances while mounted but you cannot gain the benefit of a charge with lance on both lances at the same time. Pounce Only applies while you are charging, Not while your mount is charging. They could be used to do a full attack using ridet by attack however
Unfortunately no... Ride-by attack is also considered a charge.
Ride-By Attack (Combat)
While mounted and charging, you can move, strike at a foe, and then continue moving.
Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat.
Benefit: When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can’t exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack.
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I'm inspired to get a horse, some posterboard plate mail, and put together a Youtube video charging some scarecrows with two lances full in effect.
I'll get more hits than that Russian dude for sure.
So the answer is yes you can 2 weapon fight with lances while mounted but you cannot gain the benefit of a charge with lance on both lances at the same time. Pounce Only applies while you are charging, Not while your mount is charging. They could be used to do a full attack using ridet by attack howeverUnfortunately no... Ride-by attack is also considered a charge.
Ride-By Attack (Combat)
While mounted and charging, you can move, strike at a foe, and then continue moving.
Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat.
Benefit: When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can’t exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack.
Right, I confused ride-by attack and mounted skirmisher, which does give you a full attack when mounted.
SKR's ruling was for iterative attacks, ie from a high bab bonus. Two separate lances would be a different question. As both have momentum when they're stabbed they don't need to be drawn back at all.
Just to play devil's advocate..... if you are relying on momentum would/should you still get STR bonuses to attack and damage?
Just to play devil's advocate..... if you are relying on momentum would/should you still get STR bonuses to attack and damage?
It would be 3d8 +3x whatever +3x strength on one lance and 3d8 + 3x whatever +(.5X3=)1.5 strength on the other (baring a feat or ability that lets you get full strength on the other weapon)
So what you guys are saying is that I can't have 2 lances, charge an enemy and deal (1d8+str)x2 for each lance using Doublestrike, and that I must take Two-Weapon Pounce in order to do so ?
I actually got the idea from this picture.
Honestly of all the unrealistic things this game allows your characters to do, this doesn't even seem that outrageous. If a PC had Doublestrike (Ex) I'd allow it since it seems reasonable enough. Otherwise, the rules don't seem to offer any way to "double-charge", so in general I don't think you could do this.
Doublestrike (a standard action) and Charge (a full round action) are mutually exlusive actions. You can dual wield lances while mounted. Pounce appears to be the only way to make use of Two Weapon Fighting and Lances during a charge with Pathfinder. Two Weapon Pounce from 3.5 appears to work as well. But as the clarification on getting a full attack with a charge did not really take into consideration TWF I could see it going either way on gaining the Charge bonus to the first attack for each weapon or not. Discuss it with your DM and see what ruling would be appropriate.
Regardless, I see no reason you have to find a way to use charge with your dual wielding lances to feel like you are emulating that card. You are still getting reach on two weapons with 1d8/x3. A character could have their mount move a great distance and still Doublestrike at reach, keeping both yourself and your mount relatively safe and get attacks of opportunities when your enemy closes if they lack reach. Even two attacks of opportunities if you have Equal Opportunity. Two one handed weapons with reach, one could do that with Lunge but you also take a -2 ac penalty. A lance and different weapon without reach is likely more effective, but as above I see some advantages.
Honestly of all the unrealistic things this game allows your characters to do, this doesn't even seem that outrageous. If a PC had Doublestrike (Ex) I'd allow it since it seems reasonable enough. Otherwise, the rules don't seem to offer any way to "double-charge", so in general I don't think you could do this.
Why should the rules let you Double charge. Charge is a full round action isn't it? So you should only get to charge once.
Also just because you can use a lance while mounted one handed does not mean it isn't still a two handed weapon for determining what can and can't be done with it. I would interpret the statement that you can use it one handed while riding to allow you to control your mount and shield with the other hand like real-life jouster do. So I would say you cannot wield 2 lances while charging.
When did D&D become anime?
When did D&D become anime?
When anime became popular. It is a valid source of inspiration in my opinion, though not to everyone's tastes. Pathfinder is more Sword & Sworcery with pervasive magic than fitting most forms of anime fantasy, but to each their own. There are actually a number of animes with heavy D&D influence and not as many of the stereotypical traits people think of as being anime.
Why should the rules let you Double charge. Charge is a full round action isn't it? So you should only get to charge once.
Also just because you can use a lance while mounted one handed does not mean it isn't still a two handed weapon for determining what can and can't be done with it. I would interpret the statement that you can use it one handed while riding to allow you to control your mount and shield with the other hand like real-life jouster do. So I would say you cannot wield 2 lances while charging.
Honestly, the rules don't seem to allow it at all. However, I try to be flexible with them. This doesn't seem the least bit game-changing or unbalancing. How often it even comes up is a function of what monsters the GM throws at the players and in what situations. If a player asked to do this, I'd allow it on the basis of it's reasonableness under Double Strike, and it's high level of badassery.
Wear a buckler, and a phalanx soldier fighter can wield two longspears.
Is a buckler eligible to use that ability, or must it be a light/heavy/tower shield only ?
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Wear a buckler, and a phalanx soldier fighter can wield two longspears.
You have to be wielding the shield to be able to use a longspear one-handed, not just wearing it. Since you would be using a weapon with the "shield arm", you are no longer wielding the buckler shield; therefore, you cannot use a longspear one-handed without penalties.
Doublestrike (a standard action) and Charge (a full round action) are mutually exlusive actions. You can dual wield lances while mounted. Pounce appears to be the only way to make use of Two Weapon Fighting and Lances during a charge with Pathfinder.
You forgot if he was slowed.
Now being constantly under slow effect to use your combo would work but sucks mechanically.
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Wear a buckler, and a phalanx soldier fighter can wield two longspears.You have to be wielding the shield to be able to use a longspear one-handed, not just wearing it. Since you would be using a weapon with the "shield arm", you are no longer wielding the buckler shield; therefore, you cannot use a longspear one-handed without penalties.
There is nothing that supports such a claim, at least from what is in RAW. By all means, if I am wrong, I welcome you to prove me so. Wrong or right, I like to know the rules.
It's a wielding vs wielding issue. Does it mean wielding as in Defending (here the term means to have actually used it to make and attack) or wielding as in Dazzling Display(here it means having it out and ready to use).
If its the second I thought there was a feat that fixed that.