RANGER!!!!
why?
because they were the most fun to level up.
Best class EVAR
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Dwarven Synth; 12 attacks with pounce, can UMD like a bard, negotiate like a god, fly, and have a 2nd copy of himself running around. Should have the best saves in game; AC in the 70s to prevent counter rage-lance-pounce, blindsense so he can eat "sneaky ninja of doom", and the highest possible perception. Also, strength upward of 60s
Any class that has the "win init" special feature. Seriously, isn't that what the high levels are all about?
Ughbash, you got it backwards. Raw Diamonds are made out of Diamond dust. It's not an item you can craft, it is raw materials. It isn't making things, its destroying them and sifting them.
??? whats that Oterisk?
raw diamonds are dirty un-cut rocks. (or clear looking chunks that look something like quarts)
diamond chips (of various sizes) are what you have left over when you cut a raw diamond into a cut gem.
the chips can then be tumble/ground into dust.
raw diamond > cut diamond > diamond dust
diamond dust cannot become diamond (at least not without shady magic)
diamond dust should not be more valuable than cut diamond.
I removed some posts. If you don't like a thread, just click the hide link. Posting to tell everyone how wrong they are for having a thread is Not Helping.
1. Um, Alchemist.
Why? Philosopher's stone means MONEY.
Because of Money, the Alchemist is the only character that keeps improving when others reach their max. 50,000 gold per month is nothing to shake a stick at. Other casters may be able to cast Wish, but the Alchemist Doppleganger Simulacrum make him about as unkillable as any other caster. Greater Alchemical Simulacrum means you can put that Gold to immediate crafting use and make your own alchemical army.
Can he solo a Terrasque? Yes. Balor? Yes. AM Barbarian? Yes. Ninja? Yes. Wizards and Clerics want to be his friend because he can bankroll their permanency and wish and miracle needs.
I really have to do the math on whither Master of the Ledger can make truly embarrassing amounts of money when combined with teleportation magic.
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I was going to put the Wizard/Sorcerer/Witch as top but these classes don't solo well that ruled them out. As powerful as arcane full casters are they can't solo one on one when ambushed. Prepared they will dominate but in ambush a wizard can be dead before they get their first spell off. (I've seen this happen in games)Contingency.
+ Clone + Ultra-secure demi-plane within a demi-plane.
You may get him once, but I suspect you'll be meeting your god soon.
I really have to do the math on whither Master of the Ledger can make truly embarrassing amounts of money when combined with teleportation magic.
The Alchemist can drop a Doppleganger Simulacrum in each city and transfer to any one of them with a standard action as many times per day as he wants. Thanks, you just made my point better.
I removed some posts. If you don't like a thread, just click the hide link. Posting to tell everyone how wrong they are for having a thread is Not Helping.Huh? I did no such thing - I was just making a joke and getting a dot in the thread.
Then you'll be pleased to know I didn't remove any of your posts.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Then you'll be pleased to know I didn't remove any of your posts.I removed some posts. If you don't like a thread, just click the hide link. Posting to tell everyone how wrong they are for having a thread is Not Helping.Huh? I did no such thing - I was just making a joke and getting a dot in the thread.
Doh! Maybe I hit cancel instead of submit post at the last minute and completely forgot.
To make up for not deleting the post I didn't make, I think it's only fair that you post something in my name that's hilarious and on-topic.
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again ninja, nobody can detect him at all and every other class has to sleep sometimes. once AM barbarian goes to sleep it is stabbity doom time!
for all you know 2 level 20 ninjas could be fighting each other right now! and you would eve know it that wet sensation on your face is blood! invisible blood!!!!
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Answer: All of the classes
All classes are equal at level 20 given the criteria the OP gave.
I've never seen any class dominate the *entire* game. Pathfinder did the best job I've seen at having interesting and different but equal classes.
At best, you'd have ~20 charges on that staff. You'd use up your own slots and then burn through the staff charges. How are you figuring 60+? I think you're reading it such that a level 0 slot can fuel any charge. However, staves are charged with regular spells so to cast a 9th level spell you would have to have an available 9th level spell slot.
5.wizzard
Wizzards are only broken if you allow them to take Run, Leadership, Improved Familiar, and Weapon Specialization (Brick in a Sock)!
Trust me, you don't want that kind of sillyness anywhere near your carefully made world!
Could you point me to this build?
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Arcane Sorceror with the feat Craft Staff and the skill Craft Gemcutting.
Enchnant Wish onto staff...
Profit with Arcane Apothesis... 60+ wishes a day.
You know that staves can only hold a maximum of 10 charges. Also, I think you still have to pay the cost of the Wish, not sure though.
You will also need to figure out just how many charges are used with the casting of a Wish. Monster Summoning VI for example uses 3 charges per casting.
Arcane Apothesis at level 20 lets yo sue 3 spell levels instead of a charge.
You do not use the material components when using a wish off a staff.... However in the enchanting process you need to use enough material for 50 castings. 25,000 in diamond dust x 50 = 1.25 million (above wealth by level). HOWEVER you will note I also listed the skill Craft Gemcutting. When you craft something it USUALLY takes a long time, but you get the item for 1/3rd the cost (assuming you make the skill roll). So spend 410k on Raw Diamonds, use FABRICATE to turn that into 1.3 Mil of Diamond dust and enchant Wish onto your staff.
Now enjoy 60+ wishes per day at 0 cost.
Arcane Apothesis could be turned down a bit (maybe that you should spend spell slots equal to 1/2 rd the caster level of the item or something like that), but I am not sure if the diamond dust trick works.
Do you have a source that diamonds arent't just graded by weight ( carat?)?I even remember a Order of the stick comic, the apprentice bough diamond dust at a discount... the master send him right back since the spell required a certain amount of GP in dust^^|
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Could you point me to this build?5.wizzard
Wizzards are only broken if you allow them to take Run, Leadership, Improved Familiar, and Weapon Specialization (Brick in a Sock)!
Trust me, you don't want that kind of sillyness anywhere near your carefully made world!
Allow me http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rincewind , he forgot the hat though ^^
Could you point me to this build?5.wizzard
Wizzards are only broken if you allow them to take Run, Leadership, Improved Familiar, and Weapon Specialization (Brick in a Sock)!
Trust me, you don't want that kind of sillyness anywhere near your carefully made world!
I smell some eldritch knight in there...
Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10/Wizard 41 Fighter - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Brick in a Sock), Weapon Focus (Brick in a Sock)
2 Wizard 1 - Scribe Scroll, Arcane Bond: Familiar
3 Wizard 2 - Run
4 Wizard 3
5 Wizard 4 - Improved Familiar: Elemental
6 Wizard 5 - bonus feat: craft magic arms and armor -> use to craft a +1 brick in a sock
7 EK 1 - bonus feat: Leadership
8 EK 2
9 EK 3 - bonus feat: Weapon specialization: Brick in a sock
10 ...
Hm, I am not quite sure I understand the inherent danger of this build, but I may be overlooking something ;-P
It would definitely be intersting to see some spellstrike/spellcombat with brick-in-sock in there, though...
EDIT: Forgot to mention magical knack as trait :-)
As Ughbash's GM I can assure you that yes indeed I would throw the rulebook at him if he tried soemthing like that. Now I understand why he wnated the 10,000 gp in raw diamonds in my game. I am laughing so hard I almost didn't type this in.
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Just looking for some opinions. Obviously no one 'right' answer. Very much a YMMV question.
Let's say the following criteria.
1) Must be a class, multiclass combo, or class archtype from Core, APG, UC, or UM.
2) Assume standard WBL chart from Core (399). Items must come from one of the above 4 books, or rules contained within them.
3) Surviving to 20 isn't a concern, only performance once Level 20 is reached.
1. Monk (MoM-Dragon style) 2 + Fighter (Unarmed Fighter) 2 + Druid (Menhir Savant) 18
*Dino animal companion2. Wizard (arcane discovery / True name) 20
*True name multiple times level 15, 17 and 19 (18 HD creature each time)
Abuse the spell - Simulacrum (creatures of up to 40 HD)
*Jabberwock anyone? How about Pit Fiends or Balors
3. Cleric (Undead Lord) 20
*Undead army + Gate + Miracle
4. Summoner (Master) 20
*enough said
5. Gunslinger (Pistolero) 20
*Advanced firearms only
**Note - all would take leadership feat.
I can't ever include as an ultimate power a character who can be negated by a levitate spell.AM BARBARIAN
BATTY-BAT
Other martial classesWhy no spellcasters (other than BATTY-BAT) ?
Because AM BARBARIAN killed them all, obviously.
by level 20 that mount will be charging in 3 dimensions. The mount, not the barbarian so no pounce right? The ambiguity of this should disqualify it from this discussion.
Any class the player can play well and end up in a good world dominating position at Level 20 (King of Cheliax sounds nice f.i.) with an appropiate Level 18 cohort and several underlings of Level 15 that cover the bases you need to.
Really, measuring classes at level 20 after the same critera that seem appropiate to Level 10 does not lead to much unless your group favors the "level-20-is-like-level-10-only-with-bigger-numbers approach" that seems so common nowadays.
Monk (MoM-Dragon style) 2 + Fighter (Unarmed Fighter) 2 + Druid (Menhir Savant) 18
Note to self.
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by level 20 that mount will be charging in 3 dimensions. The mount, not the barbarian so no pounce right? The ambiguity of this should disqualify it from this discussion.I can't ever include as an ultimate power a character who can be negated by a levitate spell.AM BARBARIAN
BATTY-BAT
Other martial classesWhy no spellcasters (other than BATTY-BAT) ?
Because AM BARBARIAN killed them all, obviously.
RAGELANCEPOUNCE was ALWAYS overkill. If you eliminate the POUNCE, RAGELANCE most likely still more than enough kill. Especially against your more squishy variety of castys.
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Alchemist because of infinite money.
summoner because of infinite monsters.
ninja because of infinite trolling.
wizard because of infinite power.
am barbarian because of infinite awesome.
@Sangalor
I believe your wizzard would be twice as powerful as the wizzard who defeated a sourcerer, as that one only had half a brick in a sock, if memory serves.
the best thing I've heard so far is the lvl 20 commoner with his 60 wishes per day, because that sorcerer won't do much besides that.
1. Um, Alchemist.
Why? Philosopher's stone means MONEY.
Because of Money, the Alchemist is the only character that keeps improving when others reach their max. 50,000 gold per month is nothing to shake a stick at. Other casters may be able to cast Wish, but the Alchemist Doppleganger Simulacrum make him about as unkillable as any other caster. Greater Alchemical Simulacrum means you can put that Gold to immediate crafting use and make your own alchemical army.
Can he solo a Terrasque? Yes. Balor? Yes. AM Barbarian? Yes. Ninja? Yes. Wizards and Clerics want to be his friend because he can bankroll their permanency and wish and miracle needs.
^This.
A determined Alchemist can basically have well-rounded adventuring parties at his disposal via Greater Alchemical Simulacrum, and for fairly cheap. Alchemists are even well-rounded enough that all the Sims can be Alchemists and you can still fill the four basic combat roles (striker, tank, controller, healer). The Stone isn't even that necessary if we consider that the 10th level sims can be out adventuring and bringing their loot back to the boss.
An Alchemist with an Alchemist Cohort can order the cohort to get to work whipping up the simulacra whilst the boss can devote his time to making Golems or buying Permanency spells and Contingencies or whatever (or simply buying locks of wizard hair and then cloning wizards that cast it for you) and making his lair impenetrable.
Whether your DM will stand for this is another matter, since a player who actually does all this has basically become the BBEG...
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Does 3.5s 15,000,000 Gold a Day trick still work?
Because if it does I believe that beats the Alchemists 50k a month.
Does 3.5s 15,000,000 Gold a Day trick still work?
Because if it does I believe that beats the Alchemists 50k a month.
Walls of Iron in Pathfinder aren't suitable for crafting.
At least, last time I checked.
Doesn't say that on the spell page for Wall of Iron. Is there a FAQ?
Either way a smart DM would never allow that combo anyways.
Except for the last part...
Like any iron wall, this wall is subject to rust, perforation, and other natural phenomena. Iron created by this spell is not suitable for use in the creation of other objects and cannot be sold.
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Doesn't say that on the spell page for Wall of Iron. Is there a FAQ?
Either way a smart DM would never allow that combo anyways.
Except for the last part...
Like any iron wall, this wall is subject to rust, perforation, and other natural phenomena. Iron created by this spell is not suitable for use in the creation of other objects and cannot be sold.
Haha missed it, thanks.
Wizard
Cleric
Witch
Summoner
Sorcerer
Honorable mention to Druid and Oracle.
1) Magus Kensai with shatter defenses and rod wielder
2) Cleric Divine Strategist with tactics inquisition (best initiative + best all-around class)
3) Ranger Beastmaster Nirmathi Irregular
4) Alchemist Vivisectionist or Ninja, sap master with firearms
5) Summoner Synthesist DEX based dervish dance with summon eidolon and antimagic field via eldritch heritage