Banatine's page

Well, I only just started running ROTR recently, and all but one member of my group are totally new to tabletop roleplaying, but the few standout moments of silliness so far would be:

1. The party enter Eryliums chamber and she's already invisible, and the barbarian looks around the room and immediately decides to dive into the Runewell...

2. The party come to the rickety bridge. the rogue decides that she should go first, alone, to check it is safe. The party agree. Then the paladin says "wait, i'll come too, just in case." Fair enough, but just two of us. And then they just all walked onto the bridge at the same time...

It broke, they all held on except the Shaman, who hit the water and ended up at 0 hp. the rogue jumped to pull her out of the sea, to get pounced on by the bunyip. Then the other two decide to try and climb down the cliff to help, before realising that neither of them have climb... so they ended up down there much quicker than they expected.

Finally, the Druid Feather Falls down, saves their asses with a Flame Blade critical, and they drag their sorry selves back to Sandpoint. The goblins were laughing so hard that several of them rolled off the edge of the cliff themselves! At least it was a good excuse for the goblins to not be worried about them coming back XD

3. Beating the snot out of Orik in Thistletop, letting him live, then healing him and paying him 200G to help them out in stopping Nualia. They get to her room, he gets 2 max damage crits with his sword and shield bash (not how he's supposed to fight i know, but i was trying to weaken him a bit since the party was big enough already) and basically killed her in one round. They then went back to Sandpoint and carried on with their business, and it wasnt until 2 hours had passed that suddenly one of them went "Wait, where's Orik?"

I'd like to have a look. Anima were always one of my favourite parts of the old system, even if none of my players used it!

I assume you mean what skills could it use untrained?

In which case, it can use any skill based on Int, Wis, or Cha that is not 'Trained only'. As it does not possess Str, Dex, or Con, it cannot use any skills based on those abilities.

Oh, he knows krom. However the fact we have all realised too late is that for every person he ropes into this pointless discussion, he gains a permenant 1 point increase to his regeneration ability.

I'm not great at maths, but at this point that makes him one of the most dangerous trolls i've ever encountered.

Our Design an Iconic tier is almost sold out!

We're working on figuring out some additional limited availability tiers.

Please no. i'm already in for an iconic, if i have to choose between multiple limited exclusives, i might cry.

However, i am seriously thinking of a power named as a nice addition to having an Iconic as well. In AD&D i had a psion whose answer to 8 out of 10 problems was Disintegrate... Canas' Controlled Disintegration has a nice ring to it... (his answer to the other 2 was Telekenesis XD)

Now, I've never used psionics before, but most of my friends love it, and since I'm the only guy who buys PF books at my club, looks I'll probably be taking yet one more for the team :)

Oh yeah, reading through the PDF and just found the gravestones.

Thanks Bill, i think mine is excellent!(Michael Salt if anyone is curious XD)

So is this correct? Anyone at Gencon can buy this first and all the people who supported the kickstarter get it later after them? Seems fair. They already have our money so why not. This has taught me a good life lesson. Never ever support another kickstarter. I feel like an idiot. I can't be the only person who feels like this.

You know, you DID get access to the content of the book before anyone else (with the PDFs we got just before the con), so you're not even right on that count...

So, yeah, i think you ARE actually the only person who feels that way :)

I'll see if I can find the money to help out.

I love SGG stuff, but when it comes to dungeons I prefer having something in a hardcover. Either way, I doubt I'll be able to fight my kickstarter addiction for too long! :)

I would say i can't wait, but my bank balance was utterly decimated by Rappan Athuk, and Steampunk Musha before that, so i still need time to save up :)

Put my order in. :)

Never played RotRL before (never even read a single page!) but i love collectible stuff like this, and i love reading APs, and i'll definately find an opportunity to run it for somebody at some point... After Splinters of Faith, Slumbering Tsar, Rappan Athuk, Obsidian Apocalypse...

You know, i get the feeling i already own enough adventure material to keep players busy for the rest of my life, but i don't care!

Tonight, my tabletop group is going after the Cloister of the Frog God (new level you guys will see in the book).

They're gonna die.

SG

Skeeter, surely you can end ANY sentence about RA with that line ;)

As long as we can still get those awesome races of yours in that smaller book, I'm not gonna complain (as much as I hate to admit it, I DO have too many campaign settings already!)

I like it, but then it is clearly based on the 3.5 version of dragonborn (a.k.a. the GOOD version) and they were my all time favourite race.

Nothing about it screams OP, but i would say that part of the Draconic flight trait should be reworded, since increasing your maneuverability gives you a +4 bonus to Fly checks anyway, plus any creature with a fly speed always treats Fly as a class skill. So it COULD just say:

"Draconic Flight: Increase your Maneuverability by one step."

Coz honestly, having a +1 trait bonus on top of the +4 isn't needed :)

At this rate, we're gonna hit the 175K goal before we even find out what it is! :)

I hate to dissapoint you man, but I doubt that ponies are the plan.

Awesome though it would be, it seems a little OOT! :)

My personal gestalt (involving 3PP) is a Dragonborn (3'5 version) Paladin (Sacred Servant of Bahamut)/Dragonrider.

she was a human noblewoman born on the same day as the silver dragon queen's last daughter, and they grew up together as best friends, and eventually decided to make a sacred bond with Bahamut, and go out to rid the world of evil dragonkind! First character concept i ever made, and STILL waiting to actually play her, 7 years later... (T~T)

No. 254 has arrived in perfect condition in the UK.

I get to put my PCs through this next week, that's long enough to memorize the entire book, right? Oh well, maybe just the Desolation...

As much as i doubt it, i hope that 'very high end' includes me ($325), because i really can't afford to pledge any more (and i actually mean it this time, sadly) (T~T)

I'll have to keep checking the website, as for some reason i'm not allowed to look at the facebook page (stupid unintuitive privacy settings!)

Dang it, i can't resist my name on a tombstone! the extra players guides are nice too. I do hope that my players have higher Will saves than me! :)

Not kickstarter... I can't resist a kickstarter! Oh well, at least I have a few months to save up... I'll just go and sob in the corner until your ready to take my money!

WOO! We've hit $90K! Well done frogs, and everyone else! Let's keep it rolling, I want more free stuff!

I would have thought that this was perfectly simple.

The table shows you what enhancement bonus the sword has at any given level. It isn't written like Divine Bond or Arcane Pool because you have no option in the matter. It is an enhancement bonus, and nothing else. It's not detailed because no detail is required beyond that fact.

It never mentions the enhancement bonus before that because until you hit level 3, <insert event here> which 'awakens' the blades latent powers hasn't happened. Maybe it required a small siphoning of the magus' personal energy. Maybe you were the only person who could pull it from the anti-magic stone it was trapped in. Or whatever other plot-based explanation you feel is sufficient to explain why the rules work as they do.

oh well, looks like i CAN'T beat the compulsive collector in me after all (he just found out my bank account is much healthier than he thought!)

Just upped my pledge to Celestial Dragon... I'm gonna go cry in the corner now!

After sitting on the fence about this one for the last week or so, i finally decided to go for it.

The compulsive collector in me is screaming to go for the Master Edition, but sadly there is no way i can possibly afford it... just have to settle for the Nikobo level!

i know your trying to so this with Summoner, but just in case you didn't know, this could be exactly what your looking for!

I'm so glad to hear about this. i bought both the 3.5 pact magic books you made, and loved them all. My only problem with them was choice (having over 100 spirits to choose from made things so difficult...)

I'm actually welcoming the idea of a 'bitesize' version i can memorize, and thus not take up half the game session deciding who i'm bound to! (Playing a Soul Weaver made things even worse. If spirit selection was long, spell selection was painful!)

Just thought, quick question. I don't order stuff from america very often, so how long is delivery likely to take? i.e. If it is shipped mid-may, is it likely to arrive before the start of june?

I ask because on june 1st i'm going away for a 5-day LARP event, and i'm kinda hoping this book will be able to keep me and my friends doubly entertained while we're there (roleplay-ception!)

Okay, I find that I cannot help checking the counter several times a day to see how much has been committed. Now why this would be makes no sense to me but I am fascinated by the whole process.

Glad to know i'm not the only one! :)

Dang it, i've already used up all my money for this month...

However, i do get my annual bonus in my next paycheck! Can't wait to be a Death knight of Orcus & Tsathogga!

Archetypes are always a personal choice, i find.

for example, my favourite personal character is a Paladin of Bahamut, so for me Sacred Servant is excellent.

my second char is a Magus. Since i've always loved the idea of the armourless arcane critical master, Kensai fits me perfectly. Plus i like bladebound because an awesome talking sword is the kind of thing i love.

They aren't about power, i find. they are about style and preference. I found choosing between archetypes for maguc extremely dificult, because they are all things i want to do, but all sacrifice OTHER things i want to do.

while it is true that spellstrike only refers to the free touch attack you gain while casting the spell, i think it is written that way because all touch spells give you that free touch.

It is unfortunate that they neglected to mention anything about multiple-touch spells, but i think the most sensible interpritation is that as long are you are carrying spell charges that require touch attacks, you can use Spellstrike to deliver them. after all, Spellstrike isn't something you need to 'activate', it's just always avaliable.

I also can't see anything wrong with combining it with poolstrike. As you say, it isn't another spell, so shouldn't interfere. But then again, this multi-touch argument has been going on for some time with no resolution, so...

You could always just take both archetypes and switch between the two weapons as you like. (as an added bonus you can do rediculous galdalf-esque sword staff fighting too!)

But then, when i play a magus i'm either a Bladebound Kensai, or a Bladebound Hexcrafter Staff magus (i do like my multi-archetypes!)

Well, for arcana Spellbreaker is a given, obviously. Lingering pain is another one to consider, anything to make it harder for your prospective opponent.

Force Hook Charge is a useful spell for getting into melee range, or even dimension door if you can afford the feats to allow you to attack after casting.

If your going for high-crit weapons, the Spellblight crit feats might also be fun too.

And trust me--when your character loses an arm, a leg, an eye, your tongue, breaks a tooth, gets an ear cut off, or loses something . . . more priceless than the Crown Jewels, you will weep if you cannot just regrow it in 2d10 rounds.

That awkward moment when your GM rolls the groin on his Crit location chart!

"...If that had been permenant, i would have been VERY upset!"

Celestial Pegasus wrote:

The reason I ask is that this is coming up in a party I play in, and I'd like to figure out how to handle this 'right.' The group in question is pretty mature and cooperative, and (probably; I cannot 100% speak for them) willing to accept that the crafters should probably get something for their spending a Feat slot on the party's direct benefit when the crafters really wanted some other feat.

And that is the center of the whole problem and why this has gone on for 2000+ posts. If you believe spending a feat gives them the right to make money off the party or not? There is no 'right' way to handle this. There is only, "how our group handles this without falling apart". Have a group discussion.

Stop being sensible, you are gonna kill the thread!

this thread is kinda like your crazy old dog that eats the furniture. It makes you mad, but you still don't want to see it die. :)

now that we've hit 2K, we can all move over here, and start all over again XD

It's like a New Game +!

Valandil Ancalime wrote:

Is this a hot button issue or what? I wonder what the record for longest thread is?

Well, a lot of us keep failing our will saves and return to the thread.

:)

I have no idea what the longest thread is, but one of the goals for the last 1000 posts or so is to get to 2000+ posts.

remember that time at about 12-1300 posts where it looks like it MIGHT just stop? Now those were fun times!

Is this a hot button issue or what? I wonder what the record for longest thread is?

Quote:

Creating magical item for the party + small fee on the work = players uprorar?

For me it would depend on what was being crafted. If it was something that made me better at my group job, I would expect it to be made at cost because it makes the whole group better. If it was an item I only wanted for personal reasons and had no impact on group performance, then I would be willing to pay a little extra. Though, since our characters are presumably companions who depend upon each other in life or death situations, I would expect him to keep it reasonable, +10% or so.

It also depends on how much I was abusing the privelege. If the crafter was constantly being asked to craft stuff for the party with no chance to pursue his own goals, I would expect him to say "no" or maybe charge extra. If on the other hand, he had plenty of downtime and just wanted to charge extra because he wanted to. I would gently remind him of the many time we had saved each others lives, etc...
I did like the answer that had some extra going to either a group fund or outside account. Say a cleric crafter asking for a small donation to his church or saying, "I'm going to use those funds to make a wand of CLW".

Mother of God, a reasonable new poster has entered the fray! is this a sign of the apocalypse? XD

I can't beleive we are gonna hit 2K posts while in the middle of, literally, the most laughable argument i have EVER seen!

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry... Just don't rage. If you rage, you lose! ;)

Quote:

This essentially gives further support to my argument, that WBL is determined by cost for all character created items. Since the developers obviously intended that item creation confer no benefit to crafters or non-crafters.

Lol? You must be trolling. That quote says, very clearly, that if the non-crafters have the same gear value as the crafter then the crafter effectively gets no benefit from taking his crafting feats. Are seriously saying that it was intended that a crafter got no benefit from taking crafting feats? O.o

Yeah, let's stop feeding the troll? I'd rather we actually returned to LOGICAL, INTELLIGENT debate, and didn't argue over something so pathetic...

Banatine wrote:

IF the first half of the question wasn't relevant, why would they even bother writing it? (note, the comma does not make the first half of this sentence irrelevant...

Maybe because it's frequently paired with the question?

Look, the answer doesn't say anything about how magic items crafted and in turn given to players are handled. So I am simply defaulting to the text given, which states WBL is counted at cost not price.
ImperatorK 2 minutes ago

Quote:

Why? So you can ignore them some more? I already stated my arguments.

Calling me a "Troll" just because you disagree with me is stupid.

If anyone is, it must be you. Because I keep responding to your 'arguments' and you keep saying that I'm doing no such thing.

We aren't calling you a troll because we disagree with you.

We are calling you a troll because you are, obviously and deliberately, misinterpriting the intent in order to annoy people.

However, i will hand it to you, until you arrived i didn't think anyone would be able to make a more tenuous argument that AD... :)

IF the first half of the question wasn't relevant, why would they even bother writing it? (note, the comma does not make the first half of this sentence irrelevant...)

Are you purely doing this to further the cause of reaching 2K posts, or are are you HONESTLY saying that it isn't relevant?

Answer carefully, it will determine how seriously i can take ANY post you make from here on out.

Crafters are metagaming by selling below merchant price. How is the crafter suppose to "know about the rules" that he can't sell above 50% cost?

Accusations of "metagaming" are futile and pointless.

So, what you are saying is that PC crafters can ONLY sell for full price?

Well, that's ONE solution...

Banatine wrote:

CommandoDude wrote:

Mistwalker wrote:

Please take a look at the math, and tell me if there are any major errors in it. With the exception of Gauss, who provided a more robust math formula, no one has mentioned any errors in the above. Can you find any?

I don't know HOW that math suddenly finds the crafter having a WBL lower than the party. All I can conclude is that the math is made up.

A 3rd level party has a WBL of 3000. Say the party is 6 large, with one crafter. Everyone wants a different item that is worth 2000gp, so everyone in the party pays 1000gp to the crafter, who crafts the items. Their party's actual WBL has not changed in comparison to their expected WBL.

HOWEVER,

A crafter charging a 20% fee (as suggested) is lowering the actual WBL of his party members while substantially increasing his own.

Same scenario as before, but now the party is paying 1200 each, the crafter pays 1000 for his own item, and receives 200gp extra from his 5 teammates. The 5 non-crafters now have 2800gp, but their WBL is still 3000. The crafter now has 4000gp, but his expected WBL is still 3000.

I'm sorry, what?

If i have 3000 GP, and i pay someone 1000 Gp to make something thaw SHOULD cost me 2000, i am actually at 4000 Gp (2000 in cast, 2000 in item) i am UP.

If the crafter makes himself a 2000 gp item for 1000 gp, HE is 1000 gp UP. just like everyone else. Except that, according to the FAQ, crafters should not me making items for other party members at all, for the plethora of reasons we have discussed in this shameful debate. :)

ALL crafted items are treated as 1/2 their WBL. Players do NOT increase their WBL by buying crafted items.

No... If you read the FAQ, it said VERY CLEARLY that only the Crafters items count as 1/2 WBL, otherwise the feat would provide no mechanical benefit. the crafter SHOULD have 'double' WBL, as that is whe entire purpose of the feat...

Mistwalker wrote:

Please take a look at the math, and tell me if there are any major errors in it. With the exception of Gauss, who provided a more robust math formula, no one has mentioned any errors in the above. Can you find any?

I don't know HOW that math suddenly finds the crafter having a WBL lower than the party. All I can conclude is that the math is made up.

A 3rd level party has a WBL of 3000. Say the party is 6 large, with one crafter. Everyone wants a different item that is worth 2000gp, so everyone in the party pays 1000gp to the crafter, who crafts the items. Their party's actual WBL has not changed in comparison to their expected WBL.

HOWEVER,

A crafter charging a 20% fee (as suggested) is lowering the actual WBL of his party members while substantially increasing his own.

Same scenario as before, but now the party is paying 1200 each, the crafter pays 1000 for his own item, and receives 200gp extra from his 5 teammates. The 5 non-crafters now have 2800gp, but their WBL is still 3000. The crafter now has 4000gp, but his expected WBL is still 3000.

I'm sorry, what?

If i have 3000 GP, and i pay someone 1000 Gp to make something thaw SHOULD cost me 2000, i am actually at 4000 Gp (2000 in cast, 2000 in item) i am UP.

If the crafter makes himself a 2000 gp item for 1000 gp, HE is 1000 gp UP. just like everyone else. Except that, according to the FAQ, crafters should not me making items for other party members at all, for the plethora of reasons we have discussed in this shameful debate. :)

Look, here's the deal.

Those of you profiteers who say they are giving the party a "bargain" by charging 10% are completely and conveniently ignoring that you would be giving the party a BETTER BARGAIN by not charging a fee.

So stop even pretending that "bargain for the party" is a goal. If that were true you'd never charge ANY "interest" for "your time".

All of the tens of thousands of words of this thread defending that 10 or 20% fee is just that, rationilazation of your desire to make more gold than your party members, and using crafting as the tool to do so. It's all about the gold. Because if it was about providing the group a bargain, you wouldn't charge them a fee for the "privilege."

And those of you who want to argue that a crafter ends up at a lower WBL number because of SKR's idiotic "ruling" that crafter's WBL calculation is 1/2 price for things they craft for themselves are simply trying to have your cake and eat it too. You get exactly the same armor as your partner, but because ON YOU it is 1/2 cost, you get to whine about being "cheated" on WBL calculations.

Rationalize all you like. If it was about the bargain, you'd just provide the bargain. The very fact that you charge a fee at all is all the proof needed that it's about the gold.

And the fact that you find it so abhorrent that a crafter would EVER charge you ANYTHING beyond the cost of the raw materials, and ever value the HOURS of hard work he has put in to actually do this for you while you may or may not be doing something equally productive, is all the proof needed that it's all about the gold for YOU too. :)

Rationalize it all you like. Your argument is EVERY. SINGLE. BIT as flawed as the other. The sooner you realise that, the sooner we can start actually making some kind of progress here.

And for 10 bonus points AD, reply to this without using the word Profiteer! Coz i'm not sure it means what you think it means... I just looked it up on wikipedia, and it doesn't match what you are describing at all...

gnomersy wrote:

Selgard wrote:

Hivemind.

If you want to play the good of the many then fine but by that logic it's a good idea to drop fireballs on your ally to hit all the enemies and I think anyone you did that to would turn around and punch you in the face sooooo yeah. After all the fireball dropped on that fighter saves 4 of you from potential danger how could that possibly not be a good idea?

Players get one PC, they control that one PC, that's how the game works. I don't tell the fighter that he grapples this guy instead of swinging his sword and he doesn't tell me I craft items for free instead of for 10%. If you don't want any individuality in your games and want to collectively decide everything I guess that works for you guys if you all like it but it should never be the assumed method of play.

Its not a hive-mind everyone controls everyone.

I made my PC. I did it entirely without the group's help. (except for one oddity that I proposed a houserule for, and got accepted).

The fighter did the same (exact same actually- he had to propose a house rule too- and got it accepted)

The cleric did. (no houserule needed)
the rogue, the wizard,the magus, the ranger.. everyone made their characters themselves without group input or oversight. Not that we don't occasioally ask for each others advice- but its just that. Advice.

We are a largely good group though. If the magus coming in was evil, he'd have an issue. And we'd tell him that. he'd have a serious issue in our group, such that his character would need to not be evil to join us.

I feel relatively safe in saying that a crafter coming in thinking he was gonna charge 10% would be in the same boat. Its just not acceptable. Its not in the bounds of what we find acceptable for someone trying to join our group to do.
By that same light, if you wanted to come in and be a mass murdering psychopath who killed everything you came across without deliberation or reason- just killing because it consumed oxygen. The...

Selgard, if am i understanding this correctly, are you saying that either side of the argument is fine, as long as everyone agrees to it beforehand?

That is coming dangerously close to the kind of answer that EVERYONE might be able to agree with! And it needs to stop NOW! :)

I would have another vote in for just normal warewolf babies.

Assuming that lycanthropy is 'frowned upon', the couple are going to have to work pretty hard to cover this up in general, if anyone who is not utterly loyal finds out, and isn't silenced, you can bet that 'van helsing' is going to discover this, and do something about it.

That said, i'm not sure that either my players, or i as a GM, would have the maturity to deal with this kind of situation 'properly'. we would all just 'move it off-screen' and pretend it never happened!

I'm gonna watch to see how this progresses too!