That feels about right from my perspective -- we had around 7-9 at the same timespot (don't remember exactly right now). My players basically built a city everywhere they got a building for free or reduced cost.
We're between books 5 and 6 and the PCs' kingdom has 5 cities, only one with 2 districts. We are using a heavily modified version of the kingdom rules, though, so money has not been abundant. The large territorial gains suggested at the end of 5 would probably have destroyed the economy, so the PCs found ways not to make them.
I think they are about to add Nitivka's Crossing, and yes, there is an obvious problem with Brevoy but they seem to be in a position to pull it off after helping Restov secede from Brevoy two years ago.
We've played about 5 years total.
My group has one city Olegton and just filled their first district. They have had a hard time on economy rolls and we do role play quite a bit, so its a slower pace. We just started the second module and they are in the 33rd month of exploration/kingdom building with 15 hexes. I've supplemented their BP's at times with a couple trade agreements, one recent agreement was with Varnhold which will provide to a segway into module 3. Another agreement was made with Loy Rezbin for Tatzlford. I've been creative in helping the group succeed with their economy.
I've incorporated quite a bit of background character information such as: one of the players, the ruler, is from House Garess (Issia) while most of the other players are Rostlanders. Building tension and potential future loyalty concerns.
I am quite satisfied with how the game has developed.
To be blunt why should the players establish more than their capital city? From a gamist point of view it´s not very effective unless you have already so much income that you want more cities to build more buildings each month.
From an RP view it's far easier to protect 1 city than 10.
One plague roll on the events table could paralyze your kingdom, if you only have one city. Similarly, putting all your eggs into a single proverbial basket can result in terrible issues should something (or a string of somethings) bad happen to it.
I have a rule that a district must be at least 50% full before another district is added. This slows the valuable economy down, but an easy way around it is establishing a new city, which has a new district.
Instead of getting abusive, my players opted for a city per player that wants one. This has worked out really well, because two players that had minimal input in the nation building are now taking active part in building up "their" city.
The players have also decided that Sootscale should get his own city, and as the GM, I now get a stipend of BP to build a city, which is nice for me, and an excellent roleplaying idea.
Edit: Oh, yeah, the point of the thread- we have four cities. Waypoint (the capital, run by the Duke), Olegtown (finally part of the kingdom, and ran by the Treasurer and headmaster of the thieves' guild), "The Town" (run by the General, and loaded with barracks, garrisons, and breweries), and Dragon Roost (Sootscale's mines and underground city). A fifth town will be established for the other Kolbold (and magister, of all things) once his mines are up and running.
We are finishing up book two, but took a lot of time to build up the kingdom, to the tune of five or so years.
** spoiler omitted **
I'll bring this up to the tech team. In the future, a post to Website Feedback or an email to webmaster@paizo.com is much appreciated (this is just so we can keep website discussion in the right place and not distract from the main thread topic). :)
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Let's see. We have our capitol city of Shrikewall (2 districts). Then there is Olegsburg where Oleg's outpost was. Then there is Tatzlford where we defeated the tatzlworms. Finally, there is Elkhaven at the Temple of Erastil. Each one has one district. NPC's actually run the cities, although as Duke, the DM and I pretty much run the domain turns.
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Let's see. We have our capitol city of Shrikewall (2 districts). Then there is Olegsburg where Oleg's outpost was. Then there is Tatzlford where we defeated the tatzlworms. Finally, there is Elkhaven at the Temple of Erastil. Each one has one district. NPC's actually run the cities, although as Duke, the DM and I pretty much run the domain turns.
Oh, and we just started the Varnhold Vanishing.
Were just finished book two, 17 Month playtime (since first city foundation).
My players kingdom (Greenland, very creative...) consists of 2 Hexes and three citys (Major City (Staglords Fort), Tatzleford and one in the south).
I think without the approach of the gnome tatzelford would be never settled. :)
The southern city is the private "playgorund" for our intrigant rogue-diplomat and founded only two month ago (while the rest of the group think it's founded by NPCs. Yes the player created more intrigues then "Game of Thrones" and if this will come up, their kingdom will crumble to dust *evil smile*).
Our GM has allowed 2 years between each book but no progression during the books. Seems to help keep people focused. We are 3 years in and currently size 59 with 5 cities (2 recently founded). Still have a year to run before book 3 so I would guess we would be at 6 to 8 cities by then.
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Our GM has allowed 2 years between each book but no progression during the books. Seems to help keep people focused. We are 3 years in and currently size 59 with 5 cities (2 recently founded). Still have a year to run before book 3 so I would guess we would be at 6 to 8 cities by then.
I'm running it in two groups with rough equivalent of time frames. The group that is almost done (halfway through book 6) has 8 cities (in order of settlement: Stag Fort, Oleg's, Tatzlford, Fey Ruins, Varnhold, Candlemere, Fort Drelev, Pitax - they may add one or two more, but their kingdom is running smoothly as is). The second group is about halfway through book 4 and has only 3 cities (Stag Fort, Oleg's, Tatzlford).
End of Chapter 5 having annexed Pitax, 10 years' game time.
My group's kingdom has roughly the following numbers:
Size: 245 hexes (4 completely undeveloped)
Cities: 11 (after razing Fort Drelev to the ground rather than let Pitax sack it) - also does not count the minor spots on the map that are "RAW" cities in Pitax.
* Total of 80 fully developed city districts, 38 of them in Pitax.
Economy ~+1700 w/o ruling council
Loyalty ~+1800 w/o ruling council
Stability ~+1600 w/o ruling council
Estimated monthly income: 1,400 BP
End of Chapter 5 having annexed Pitax, 10 years' game time.
My group's kingdom has roughly the following numbers:
Size: 245 hexes (4 completely undeveloped)
Cities: 11 (after razing Fort Drelev to the ground rather than let Pitax sack it) - also does not count the minor spots on the map that are "RAW" cities in Pitax.
* Total of 80 fully developed city districts, 38 of them in Pitax.Economy ~+1700 w/o ruling council
Loyalty ~+1800 w/o ruling council
Stability ~+1600 w/o ruling councilEstimated monthly income: 1,400 BP
It is probable a good this your moving on to book 6. :)
It is probable a good this your moving on to book 6. :)End of Chapter 5 having annexed Pitax, 10 years' game time.
My group's kingdom has roughly the following numbers:
Size: 245 hexes (4 completely undeveloped)
Cities: 11 (after razing Fort Drelev to the ground rather than let Pitax sack it) - also does not count the minor spots on the map that are "RAW" cities in Pitax.
* Total of 80 fully developed city districts, 38 of them in Pitax.Economy ~+1700 w/o ruling council
Loyalty ~+1800 w/o ruling council
Stability ~+1600 w/o ruling councilEstimated monthly income: 1,400 BP
It is indeed. <evil grin>
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It is indeed. <evil grin>It is probable a good this your moving on to book 6. :)End of Chapter 5 having annexed Pitax, 10 years' game time.
My group's kingdom has roughly the following numbers:
Size: 245 hexes (4 completely undeveloped)
Cities: 11 (after razing Fort Drelev to the ground rather than let Pitax sack it) - also does not count the minor spots on the map that are "RAW" cities in Pitax.
* Total of 80 fully developed city districts, 38 of them in Pitax.Economy ~+1700 w/o ruling council
Loyalty ~+1800 w/o ruling council
Stability ~+1600 w/o ruling councilEstimated monthly income: 1,400 BP
they should make a go at uniting the whole river kingdoms. next empire?
they should make a go at uniting the whole river kingdoms. next empire?It is probable a good this your moving on to book 6. :)End of Chapter 5 having annexed Pitax, 10 years' game time.
My group's kingdom has roughly the following numbers:
Size: 245 hexes (4 completely undeveloped)
Cities: 11 (after razing Fort Drelev to the ground rather than let Pitax sack it) - also does not count the minor spots on the map that are "RAW" cities in Pitax.
* Total of 80 fully developed city districts, 38 of them in Pitax.Economy ~+1700 w/o ruling council
Loyalty ~+1800 w/o ruling council
Stability ~+1600 w/o ruling councilEstimated monthly income: 1,400 BP
It is indeed. <evil grin>
By and large, one of the players has made ridiculous strides on doing so, taking his "side project" that I explicitly instructed him not to take any larger than ~120 hexes and abusing the RAW Annexation rules. According to him he has gobbled up pretty much everything else excepting the druid enclave and a few other spots on the southwestern frontier with Kyonin and perhaps the northwestern quadrant close to Numeria. He might not have gotten ahold of the southeastern-eastern frontiers of the River Kingdoms as well.
He is anticipating war with Choral to the north in Brevoy (the civil war having concluded much in Choral's favor), taking a swipe at Treerazor itself and contemplating "taking the fight to the Pactmasters" (who were the ones that opened a 2nd front against him after Daggermark and Mivon declared war upon his kingdom while Pitax engaged the main group's kingdom) via gate or the like.
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they should make a go at uniting the whole river kingdoms. next empire?It is probable a good this your moving on to book 6. :)End of Chapter 5 having annexed Pitax, 10 years' game time.
My group's kingdom has roughly the following numbers:
Size: 245 hexes (4 completely undeveloped)
Cities: 11 (after razing Fort Drelev to the ground rather than let Pitax sack it) - also does not count the minor spots on the map that are "RAW" cities in Pitax.
* Total of 80 fully developed city districts, 38 of them in Pitax.Economy ~+1700 w/o ruling council
Loyalty ~+1800 w/o ruling council
Stability ~+1600 w/o ruling councilEstimated monthly income: 1,400 BP
It is indeed. <evil grin>
By and large, one of the players has made ridiculous strides on doing so, taking his "side project" that I explicitly instructed him not to take any larger than ~120 hexes and abusing the RAW Annexation rules. According to him he has gobbled up pretty much everything else excepting the druid enclave and a few other spots on the southwestern frontier with Kyonin and perhaps the northwestern quadrant close to Numeria. He might not have gotten ahold of the southeastern-eastern frontiers of the River Kingdoms as well.
He is anticipating war with Choral to the north in Brevoy (the civil war having concluded much in Choral's favor), taking a swipe at Treerazor itself and contemplating "taking the fight to the Pactmasters" (who were the ones that opened a 2nd front against him after Daggermark and Mivon declared war upon his kingdom while Pitax engaged the main group's kingdom) via gate or the like.
** spoiler omitted **
How are you doing that? Are you doing a lot of hand waiving? What stats are you giving to the rest of the River Kingdoms?
How are you doing that? Are you doing a lot of hand waiving? What stats are you giving to the rest of the River Kingdoms?
He is 'interpreting' the guidebook of the River Kingdoms rather literally as far as I can tell. I told him what area he could have and the hex size cap I was fine with.
As a matter of nonimportance to the main group of PCs, I felt it unnecessary to spend many hours on a sidebar. He said he was pressing forward with expanding beyond the limit I set, so I let it slide for most of the areas in question. Some I set the foot down given his political inclinations.
Lastly, "month" (opening act of Chapter 6) when expanded is going to be Very Bad when expanded in scale and scope I think.
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How are you doing that? Are you doing a lot of hand waiving? What stats are you giving to the rest of the River Kingdoms?He is 'interpreting' the guidebook of the River Kingdoms rather literally as far as I can tell. I told him what area he could have and the hex size cap I was fine with.
As a matter of nonimportance to the main group of PCs, I felt it unnecessary to spend many hours on a sidebar. He said he was pressing forward with expanding beyond the limit I set, so I let it slide for most of the areas in question. Some I set the foot down given his political inclinations.
Lastly, "month" (opening act of Chapter 6) when expanded is going to be Very Bad when expanded in scale and scope I think.
Hmm, ok. I was going to populate even the 'empty spaces with bandit towns etc. I know they absolutely want to expand beyond the AP. It'll be a lot of work but I think it would be fun.
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http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/97762/%5BPFRPG%5D-Mor-Aldenn-Setting- Guide
I put this setting at the place of mivon and moved mivon to the east where there is an open area from the map overlaps. still working out the kinks though. it maybe that instead of one group I will be starting 2 real soon so will need different directions to approach the stolen lands.
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http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/97762/%5BPFRPG%5D-Mor-Aldenn-Setting- Guide
I put this setting at the place of mivon and moved mivon to the east where there is an open area from the map overlaps. still working out the kinks though. it maybe that instead of one group I will be starting 2 real soon so will need different directions to approach the stolen lands.
that's awesome thanks for sharing.
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that's awesome thanks for sharing.http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/97762/%5BPFRPG%5D-Mor-Aldenn-Setting- Guide
I put this setting at the place of mivon and moved mivon to the east where there is an open area from the map overlaps. still working out the kinks though. it maybe that instead of one group I will be starting 2 real soon so will need different directions to approach the stolen lands.
Your welcome. I have been looking at other 3rd party stuff to fill the gaps. some interesting stuff out there, so if you find some or have ideas I would like to here so can maybe use too.
Hmm, ok. I was going to populate even the 'empty spaces with bandit towns etc. I know they absolutely want to expand beyond the AP. It'll be a lot of work but I think it would be fun.How are you doing that? Are you doing a lot of hand waiving? What stats are you giving to the rest of the River Kingdoms?He is 'interpreting' the guidebook of the River Kingdoms rather literally as far as I can tell. I told him what area he could have and the hex size cap I was fine with.
As a matter of nonimportance to the main group of PCs, I felt it unnecessary to spend many hours on a sidebar. He said he was pressing forward with expanding beyond the limit I set, so I let it slide for most of the areas in question. Some I set the foot down given his political inclinations.
Lastly, "month" (opening act of Chapter 6) when expanded is going to be Very Bad when expanded in scale and scope I think.
Well, if you want Quick n Dirty, take my Pitax - compare # hexes (122) to [insert River Kingdom here], digest into simple proportion.
Mivon you could just clone n go, using the armies with different (CR x) critters and such to vary it up a bit. Granted, once one River Kingdom falls, the rest are going to scramble...
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Hmm, ok. I was going to populate even the 'empty spaces with bandit towns etc. I know they absolutely want to expand beyond the AP. It'll be a lot of work but I think it would be fun.How are you doing that? Are you doing a lot of hand waiving? What stats are you giving to the rest of the River Kingdoms?He is 'interpreting' the guidebook of the River Kingdoms rather literally as far as I can tell. I told him what area he could have and the hex size cap I was fine with.
As a matter of nonimportance to the main group of PCs, I felt it unnecessary to spend many hours on a sidebar. He said he was pressing forward with expanding beyond the limit I set, so I let it slide for most of the areas in question. Some I set the foot down given his political inclinations.
Lastly, "month" (opening act of Chapter 6) when expanded is going to be Very Bad when expanded in scale and scope I think.
Well, if you want Quick n Dirty, take my Pitax - compare # hexes (122) to [insert River Kingdom here], digest into simple proportion.
Mivon you could just clone n go, using the armies with different (CR x) critters and such to vary it up a bit. Granted, once one River Kingdom falls, the rest are going to scramble...
Yea your Pitax has got some serious teeth!
Yea your Pitax has got some serious teeth!Hmm, ok. I was going to populate even the 'empty spaces with bandit towns etc. I know they absolutely want to expand beyond the AP. It'll be a lot of work but I think it would be fun.How are you doing that? Are you doing a lot of hand waiving? What stats are you giving to the rest of the River Kingdoms?He is 'interpreting' the guidebook of the River Kingdoms rather literally as far as I can tell. I told him what area he could have and the hex size cap I was fine with.
As a matter of nonimportance to the main group of PCs, I felt it unnecessary to spend many hours on a sidebar. He said he was pressing forward with expanding beyond the limit I set, so I let it slide for most of the areas in question. Some I set the foot down given his political inclinations.
Lastly, "month" (opening act of Chapter 6) when expanded is going to be Very Bad when expanded in scale and scope I think.
Well, if you want Quick n Dirty, take my Pitax - compare # hexes (122) to [insert River Kingdom here], digest into simple proportion.
Mivon you could just clone n go, using the armies with different (CR x) critters and such to vary it up a bit. Granted, once one River Kingdom falls, the rest are going to scramble...
And they still got their lunch handed to them. ;)