I played a wizard/psion once. I told the GM upfront, I wanted to ride a dragon. I'd pay whatever price he felt appropriate, feats, money, magic items, levels, anything. By the end of the campaign I was a plane hopping archmage riding a gold dragon (lowest CR size large dragon), I can still rewrite that character sheet from memory.
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Well since you can gestalt 2 prestige classes at once here I'll make something crazy.
Side A 3 abjuration wizard 10 master specialist (CM) last 6 of ultimate magus 1 wizard
Side B 5 sage sorcerer, 4 ultimate magus (CM), 7 initiate of the sevenfold veil (CA) 4 sorcerer
At 20 level you will cast your spells at 24 level or 26 for abjuration.
you'll have a + 9 to dispel checks.
your abjuration spells will have a DC 44 to dispel.
Plus alot of other stuff that is realy sweet.
I can see where a Full BAB/Rogue could be devastating. I have never personally played a Gestalt game or run one. It always seems like it would add a lot of work for the DM for very little gain... at least from a story stand point.
But I have always liked the idea of a Gestalt at least from a fun thought process. A couple I would assume would work well.
Paladin/Rogue
Paladin/Sorc
Paladin/Magus (Blackblade/Cabalist)
Fighter(Archer)/Ranger
Fighter(Archer)/Rogue - Dont go Sniper... Its a Trap (Pun intended).
There is a PF item that gives you unlimited range on your SA.... and its cheap. Much better then giving up Trapfinding and trap sense.
Ranger/Inquisitor
Magus(Kensai)/Wizard
Druid/Ranger
Those would all seem to work well. Of course I have never actually played these so it all looks good on paper. 2 Caster classes is a waste of time. You don't break the action economy so your still only casting one spell a round. So a Wizard/Cleric is either a cleric or a Wizard each round depending on which spell he cast that round.
A Barbarian/Rogue however is both when he pounces Full Attacks with straight BAB and Full SA. At least on paper martial classes seem to mesh better then casters. Or a combo of the two.
Even then a martial/caster is either casting or full attacking. Unless one side is a Magus. Action economy is king... and a gestalt who doesn't benefit from both classes in the same round really doesn't benefit that much... at least offensively.
My 2 cents.
Monk(unsure of archetype, if any)/Gunslinger(pistolero). Super great mobility, good BAB/HD and saves all-around, virtually no MADness, alternatives (if lower damage than normal for a monk) for when the enemy closes to melee (beat face, no feat expenditure to avoid attacks of opportunity), great fun with the Leaping Shot grit deed, mitigated need for armor/avoid max dex cap, maintain reasonable AC due to Nimble, High Dex and Monk AC, high Wis. Neat little situational combat tricks all over the freakin'place. Grand old times to be had.
Gunslinger(Mysterious Stranger)/Sorcerer(Infernal(Pit-Touched))
Good party face. Nifty CON bonus, even better party face ability, Wiiiiiings. Awesome artillery abilities with high Grit, spell-pool, etc. Possibly some charm or disguise type spells to just DOMINATE all possible social interactions. Fair amount of low, but unerring, damage abilities, and average damage to touch AC b/w rays and guns+Full BAB. Probably use a musket/rifle, possibly with a shotgun to supplement. Long-range (FLYING) artillery with no weak saves, less susceptibility to things that are often the bane of gunslingers or sorcerers. Still weak to grappling, assuming enemies can reach, and Monks will be a real pain to deal with, however. Not necessarily great, but never useless. Fun stuff.
My WTF rogue: (AKA the invisible nuke)
Side 1: Time Thief (SGG) 2 / Lurk (Complete psionics) 7 / Beguiler (PHB2) 6/ Scout (Complete adventurer) 5
Side 2: Ninja Rogue (Ultimate Combat 19 / Ninja (Complete adventurer) 1
First I took only ninja 19 because I hate their capstone. Too bronken even for this. I added the ninja class because 1) Sudden strike stacks with SA and 2) This is a ninja multiclassed with ninja. This is both hilarious and awesome at the same time, to me anymay.
Time thief gives a debuff that does - 1 to all rolls the target makes for 10 minutes, though the DC of the fort test is pretty low. More importantly it allows you to have more than 1 swift action per turn or add +1d4 to an attack roll or saving throw.
Lurk gives Psionic SA 2d6, some psionic powers, initiative bonus and the augments, that include stunning and extra sneak attack.
Beguiler give some magic but most importantly allow you to, if you have Improved Feint, to feint as a swift action.
Last but not least, Scout gives fast movement, skirmish, trackless step, uncanny dodge and evasion.
Sneak attack breakdown:
10d6 if flanking
11d6 if foe without dex to AC
+2d6 if psionically focused
Can use a swift action and 6 power points for +4d6
+2d6 if he moves at least 10ft
can feint as a swift action
can do two swift action 5/day.
So for a single round:
move up to the enemy
feint as a swift action
use a time mote to get another swift action
use swift action to augment your next attack
hit once with standard action for +19d6 of precision damage
And that's without counting anything from ninja class like vanishing trick and tricks that add effects to the sneak attack. Or any magic and psionic powers. Or even deciding on a weapon or fighting style.
Now this is broken.
I removed a post and a reply to it. Be civil, please.
I removed a post and a reply to it. Be civil, please.
So, you're fast enough that I never even saw the post, much less the reply. And I've been lurking on here, like, all day, just periodically hitting refresh. Excellently done, sir.
With these rules, I would threaten to make the following
I can cast (almost) EVERY SPELL in all the books!
Levels 1-5
Sorcerer + Oracle
Levels 6-10
Witch + Druid
Levels 11-20
Mystic Theurge + Mystic Theurge
Abject silliness aside, I have three favorite gestalt builds I'd like to create.
Holy Dragon Man of Smititude!
Levels 1-10
Paladin + Sorcerer
Levels 11-20
Paladin + Dragon Disciple
(major mileage w/ charisma, and just way too cool looking)
Miniature Mounted Fury! (would be a halfling on a triceratops and take the halfling outrider replacement race trait from the APG)
Levels 1-10
Barbarian[mounted fury] + Cavalier[beastrider] (order of the sword)
Levels 11-20
Barbarian[mounted fury] + Alchemist[ragechemist]
(rage powers would be beast totem for pounce and the mounted ones so your mount rages with you. Order of the Sword cavalier @ level 8 adds your mount's strength modifier to yours when you charge. Your mount's strength balloons with yours during a rage. PLUS, you AND your mount can pounce, and your triceratops gets claw attacks to add with its gore)
Broly (from DragonballZ)
Levels 1-10
Barbarian[invulernable rager] + Alchemist
Levels 11-20
Barbarian[invulnerable rager] + Master Chymist (make sure to take the increase in size mutagen right away!)
(take Improved Unarmed Strike and all the overrun feats and just rush around the battlefield smashing things with your fists & doing your strength modifier in autodamage to anyone you successfully overrun. You should also make your bombs green when they explode.)
Not counting any archetypes...
Sorcerer/Paladin
CHA-cheese, fullCasty+fullBAB-cheese
Druid/Monk
WIS-cheese, wildshape+MonkUnarmedCombat-cheese
Summoner/Bard
Full power in light armor, CHA-cheese, plus mixing summons and Bardic buffs is... crazy.
Barbarian/Druid
RAGELANCEPOUNCE with a tough animal companion.
Fighter/Alchemist or Cavalier/Alchemist
Heavy armor! Arcane Spell Failure not applicable. Mutagens are fun, too.
Summoner/Rogue
Mainly out of pity for the Rogue, but more than offsetting the Summoner's lack of skills is nice, and having a flanking Eidolon is sweet.
Barbarian/Cavalier(Order of the Sword)
CHALLENGERAGELANCEPOUNCE with a tough animal companion.
Ftfy.
What's the class where you can have team mates act as if they have teamwork feats? Cavalier?
That class+ Master summoner
With these rules, I would threaten to make the following
...
Levels 11-20
Mystic Theurge + Mystic Theurge
I'm pretty sure there are no prestige classes allowed in gestalt build.
My choices...
AM BARBARIAN/AMY ALCHY
What's the class where you can have team mates act as if they have teamwork feats? Cavalier?
That class+ Master summoner
That's also the class for mounted combat. So now you have a faithful steed, a squire, and knights to lead.
Congratulations you jsut found me my next character for a getalt game. :D
Conjurer/Master summoner bears repeating. Waves and waves of Creatures on the field of battle.
I'm playing a halfling one in a PBP. ONly first level, but still fun.
With these rules, I would threaten to make the following
I can cast (almost) EVERY SPELL in all the books!
Levels 1-5
Sorcerer + OracleLevels 6-10
Witch + DruidLevels 11-20
Mystic Theurge + Mystic TheurgeAbject silliness aside, I have three favorite gestalt builds I'd like to create.
Can't get Mystic Theurge twice, but I'm pretty sure there was a 3.5 PrC for Druid/Arcane caster. You could take that instead.
You cast like 4 15 level characters together.
My psion/wizard/cleric/cerebremancer/mystic theurge casts like one 20th level and two 15 levels. You got more spells but I got higher level spells. They are both pretty awesome, but I like mine better because he also includes psionics.
Alright, I've been off for a while, playing the BECMI edition of the original game, and having a blast, but I am still a munchkin at heart, so I thought I'd chime in on this one:
Kain Darkwind's FrB Bbn|Cav of the Griffon (from 'Cavalier Orders')
And...
Cav of the Sword|Pal, because not since the days of 1E Unearthed Arcana has melee power been so imbalanced.
With these rules, I would threaten to make the following
...
Levels 11-20
Mystic Theurge + Mystic TheurgeI'm pretty sure there are no prestige classes allowed in gestalt build.
My choices...
AM BARBARIAN/AMY ALCHY
Read the OP, in this thread you can. Tough you can't get the same prestige class twice, like you can't take the same class twice.
Kain Darkwind's FrB Bbn
What does this mean? Bbn I'm guessing is barbarian, but what is FrB and who is Kain Darkwind?
Read the OP, in this thread you can. Tough you can't get the same prestige class twice, like you can't take the same class twice.With these rules, I would threaten to make the following
...
Levels 11-20
Mystic Theurge + Mystic TheurgeI'm pretty sure there are no prestige classes allowed in gestalt build.
My choices...
AM BARBARIAN/AMY ALCHY
your right. guess I should read instead of skim.
Kain Darkwind's FrB BbnWhat does this mean? Bbn I'm guessing is barbarian, but what is FrB and who is Kain Darkwind?
Never mind, found it. Dudes, read the OP. 3rd party is okay, homebrew isn't.
Kain Darkwind's FrB BbnWhat does this mean? Bbn I'm guessing is barbarian, but what is FrB and who is Kain Darkwind?
Kain is a poster on this forum, and he created a Barbarian Archetype after the infamous 3.5 PrC, the Frenzied Berserker. It was insanely OP (just the way I like it), but Kain's Archetype is much more likely to be allowed into a group.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/conversions/frenziedBerserkerAsBarbArchetype&page=1
Never mind, found it. Dudes, read the OP. 3rd party is okay, homebrew isn't.Kain Darkwind's FrB BbnWhat does this mean? Bbn I'm guessing is barbarian, but what is FrB and who is Kain Darkwind?
Okay, in that case, the 3.5 version of FrB|Cav of the Griffon.
Thing is Drake, you don't NEED to make full casting classes any more powerful. The full casters are already the most powerful classes in the game, and by taking two of them you're vastly expanding your options.
A Wizard/Witch, (or Sorcerer/Oracle to a lesser extent, though they're stuck a spell level behind) will have a TON of spells available and be twice as likely to have the right spell at the right time.
Actually, now that I think about it, I'd really like to try a Sorcerer/Oracle. The spell level behind kind of sucks, but doubling your spells known pool just might make up for it.
Well this is true, your only expanding your utility. While this does give you a small lateral gain in power it does nothing to shore up a classes weaknesses or work to improve upon its strengths.
If that is ok with you then yes a Double caster can have alot of utility. I however have never played a gestalt and would really want to flex my duel muscles if you get my drift lol.
Action Economy is king... So I would pick two classes that would benefit my character every round. Not one in one round... another in the next round.
Alchemist/Barbarian is a perfect example. Mutagen + Rage, ect.
Earlier, I said that I have only played one gestalt character, a dwarf fighter/soulknife. Well, here he is, fully converted to Pathfinder. I only played to him 13th level or so before the campaign ended, but I have gone ahead and statted him out all the way to 20th level. Looking at his original stats, he was a 21-point build before race, level, and magic items, so I just left him there. He is most definately not optimized, but he was certainly fun to play! His mind blade is normally in the shape of a black warhammer, faintly translucent and rippling with power.
I hope that you enjoy him!
Master Arminas
Thra’zirak of Clan Morthic (The Black Hammer of the Clan of Bold Champions)
Class: Gestalt Fighter/Soulknife
Level: 20th
Alignment: Lawful Good
Age: 114
Gender: Male
Height: 4’ 4”
Weight: 200 lbs
Hair Color: Black
Eye Color: Blue
Description: Thra’zirak (pronounced THE-rah-zee-rack) is a very large, stoutly built dwarf. A prince of Clan Morthic, he left his families halls almost six decades ago to prove himself as a worthy successor to his father Gilko’rum. Through these many long years, he has traveled across the world, in the company of other adventurers, seeking glory and honor in the dispatch of evil across the lands. Noble and compassionate in spirit, he is typically taciturn and reserved in the company of those whom he is not acquainted. But, like most dwarves, Thra’zirak (or ‘Hammer’ as most of his past adventuring companions have called him) appreciates good humor, a warm fire, and pleasant companionship. Those who earn this dwarf’s respect gain a friend until the end of days.
Recently, Hammer returned to the Halls of Morthidurum to find his ancestral home under assault from fiendish forces called forth by an exiled dwarf summoner. He rallied his people and broke the daemonic incursion, and then went in search of the summoner’s head. Although he and his companions suffered greatly in their pursuit, at the end Thra’zirak returned to Morthidurum with the head of the evil one impaled on a pike. Having proven himself to his people, Thra’zirak is now learning the art of ruling from his father’s side and preparing himself when he must ascend to the throne of his Clan.
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet (not slowed by armor or encumbrance; 20 feet without his boots of striding and springing)
Vision: Darkvision (60 feet)
Dwarven Racial Abilities: Defensive Training (+4 dodge AC vs. giant subtype); Greed (+2 bonus on Appraise for nonmagical goods containing precious metals or gemstones); Hatred (+1 bonus on attack rolls against orc and goblinoid subtypes); Hardy (+2 bonus on saving throws versus poison, spells, and spell-like abilities); Stability (+4 bonus to CMD when resisting a bull rush or trip attack); Stonecunning (+2 bonus on Perception to notice unusual stonework, such as traps or hidden doors); Weapon Familiarity (proficient with any axe, pick, or warhammer with the word dwarven in its name as a martial weapon).
Ability Scores: Str 26; Dex 20; Con 22; Int 12; Wis 12; Cha 10
Hit Die (Hit Points) : 20d10+140 (260)
BAB: +20
CMB: 28
CMD: 38
Melee Attack: +39/+34/+29/+24 (+5 mind hammer; 1d8+26+1d6 cold, 17-20/x4 +1d10 cold)
Ranged Attack: +36/+31/+26/+21 (+5 mind hammer; 1d8+26+1d6 cold, 17-20/x4 +1d10 cold)
Melee PA: +33/+28/+23/+18 (+5 mind hammer; 1d8+38+1d6 cold, 17-20/x4 +1d10 cold)
Psychic Strike: +5d8 to a living target hit in melee with the mind blade; move action to recharge
Initiative: +5
AC: 48; touch 21; flat-footed 45
Saves: Fort +26; Ref +25; Will +21
Normal Feat Progression: Diehard; Endurance; Great Fortitude; Iron Will; Lightning Reflexes; Nimble Moves; Toughness
Bonus Combat Feats (Fighter) : Blind-fight; Dodge; Greater Shield Focus; Greater Weapon Focus (mind blade); Greater Weapon Specialization (mind blade); Improved Critical (mind blade); Mobility; Power Attack; Shield Focus; Spring Attack; Weapon Specialization (mind blade)
Bonus Combat Feats (Soulknife) : Weapon Focus (mind blade)
Special Fighter Abilities: Armor Mastery (DR 5/- when using armor or shield); Armor Training 4 (-4 to ACP; +4 to max Dex); Bravery +5; Weapon Mastery (mind blade; auto confirm all critical threats; critical threat range 19-20/x3; cannot be disarmed); Weapon Training 4 (Hammers +4; Axes +3; Light Blades +2; Heavy Blades +1)
Special Soulknife Abilities: Enhanced Mind Blade +5 (Collision; Icy Burst; Ghost Touch); Form Mind Blade; Mind Blade Mastery (no Will save to manifest blade in null psionics field; change blade configurations as full-round action); Psychic Strike +5d8; Quickdraw Mind Blade; Shape Mind Blade; Throw Mind Blade
Soulknife Blade Skills: Alter Blade; Bladewind; Bladewind; Combat Slide; Deadly Blow; Improved Enhancement; Knife to the Soul; Multiple Throw; Reaper’s Blade; Two-Handed Throw
Skills: Acrobatics +28; Autohypnosis +10; Climb +15; Craft (Weaponsmith) +20; Intimidate +27; Perception +20; Ride +13; Stealth +23; Survival +10; Swim +15
Gear: +5 ghost-touch full-plate of greater acid, cold, electricity, and fire resistance; +5 ghost-touch heavy shield; +3 cold-iron dagger; ring of protection +5; ring of freedom of movement; amulet of natural armor +5; belt of physical perfection +6; boots of striding and springing; cloak of resistance +5; gauntlet of rust; handy haversack; helm of brilliance; stone of good luck; 8,000 gp
Ninja/Gunslinger possibly taking levels of fighter or paladin after gunslinger, or just going ninja/paladin, worked great for me before. Oh man that character was a monster.
I removed a post and the replies to it. Please just flag it and move on.
It is worth noting that when you look at some of the prestige classes, dual classed casters become far more viable, as a few of the prestige classes let them cast a spell from each list during the round.
For instance, mystic theurge and cerebremancer.
Last time I checked that was a huge advantage
You know some people had said in normal gestalt rules you can't take prestige classes made to combine two classes, like Mystic Theurge and Rage Prophet. I checked my Unearthed Arcana and, unless there is another source for gestalt rules I'm not aware of, there's no mentionto anything like that.
So using Cerebremancer or Mystic Theurge is totally okay.Also the double caster might not get better peak power or better action economy, but he has more endurance and, more importantly, he comes much closer to the ideal of the god wizard or schroedinger caster. With two lists of spells known and spells per day he has much more space to assign to less useful spells and keep them there just in case.
New iteration of my uber cater:
Side 1: Wizard 3/ Cerebremancer 10 /Mystic Theurge 7
Side 2: Psion 10 / Cleric 10
Now he casts as a wizard 20 /psion 20 /cleric 17. That is 9th level spells and powers on all clsses. Without taking attributes into account he can prepare six 9th level spells and knows 4 9th level powers.
If you can't break the game with that you're hopeless.
Ops, had jumped that part to check the part with the 'prestige classes' header. My bad.
BUUUTTTT since it was okayed for the purposes of this thread early on, I will keep doing it. It makes for a lot more breakage.
Continuing with my quest in seeing what monstruosities I can make:
Party of one:
Dragonrider (SGG) /Summoner
AKA 'Me, my dragon and my eidolon', or 'Who needs other players?'.
Casty killer
Side 1: Martial artist Monk 10/Arcanopath monk 10(Dragon Magazine Compendium)
Side 2: Invulnerable rager Barbarian 10/Spellbreaker Inquisitor 5/Occult slayer 5(Complete Warrior)
He needs to start from Neutral and pass to Lawful at level 10 but this thing would make casters cry.
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Oracle of Life with the Wasting Curse/Cleric with the Healing and Protection Domains.
I am eventually immune to disease, all my Cure spell heal their normal d8's but plus my level and an extra 50% at 6th level, I can Channel like no one's business, and create an Aura that makes it harder to hit my allies while boosting their saving throws.
Am I a Healbot? Yes. Do I have the slots for more damaging spells? Yes. Am I an undead's worst nightmare? Yes.
Someone please start a gestalt campaign so I can play this Healer.