What would your favorite gestalt combinations be?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Ranger/Inquisitor would make for an awsome hunter type. Judgments+bane+favored enemy.

Gunslinger/Inquisitor screams steampunk bad^$$

Oracle(Possessed)/Summoner(Synthesist) Thematically they sound great together. You and your eidolon being a true gesalt type being.

Sorcerer/Monk Had a chance to play this gesalt once, and it was just fun. Lots of magic, and little or no squishiness.

Liberty's Edge

TOZ wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
The link doesnt prove your point. Though admittedly it doesnt prove mine either.

What.

Quote:
For example, a fighter 19/summoner 1 normally has a total BAB of +19 (+19 from fighter, +0 from summoner), and when fused with his eidolon this increases to +20 (+19 from fighter, +1 from the 1st-level eidolon).
This is not 3.0 Monk Unarmed BAB.

Facepalm. Wow completely the opposite of what I said.

ForgottenRider wrote:
If you had a 19 levels if fighter and 1 level in synthesist when fused you would have a BAB of 1. It would work the same way in a gestalt game.


ElyasRavenwood wrote:
Oracle/ Sorcerer. Just because i think it would be fun. Also I don't think you can really effectively do this combination any other way.

I'm playing this right now, and it's looking like it's gonna be a Lot of fun ^-^


TOZ wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
The link doesnt prove your point. Though admittedly it doesnt prove mine either.

What.

Quote:
For example, a fighter 19/summoner 1 normally has a total BAB of +19 (+19 from fighter, +0 from summoner), and when fused with his eidolon this increases to +20 (+19 from fighter, +1 from the 1st-level eidolon).
This is not 3.0 Monk Unarmed BAB.

Was half asleep when I wrote that. Actually it does prove my point. ;-)

Summoner: Does a synthesist (page 80) use his own Hit Dice or his eidolon's Hit Dice for evolutions based on Hit Dice, such as Breath Weapon and Web? What about his BAB for making attacks?
The synthesist uses the eidolon's Hit Dice for the effects of evolutions, not his summoner Hit Dice or his total Hit Dice.

When fused, use the eidolon's BAB instead of the summoner's class BAB, and add in BAB from other sources as normal. For example, a fighter 19/summoner 1 normally has a total BAB of +19 (+19 from fighter, +0 from summoner), and when fused with his eidolon this increases to +20 (+19 from fighter, +1 from the 1st-level eidolon).


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
ForgottenRider wrote:
TOZ wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
The link doesnt prove your point. Though admittedly it doesnt prove mine either.

What.

Quote:
For example, a fighter 19/summoner 1 normally has a total BAB of +19 (+19 from fighter, +0 from summoner), and when fused with his eidolon this increases to +20 (+19 from fighter, +1 from the 1st-level eidolon).
This is not 3.0 Monk Unarmed BAB.

Facepalm. Wow completely the opposite of what I said.

ForgottenRider wrote:
If you had a 19 levels if fighter and 1 level in synthesist when fused you would have a BAB of 1. It would work the same way in a gestalt game.

TOZ is correct, and he wasn't quoting you. He was quoting the official FAQ. You are incorrect. Your example is the opposite of the official FAQ response from the developers. If you had 1 level in Synth, and 19 levels in fighter, you'd have a 19 BAB when not fused, and a 20 BAB when fused.


mdt wrote:
ForgottenRider wrote:
TOZ wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
The link doesnt prove your point. Though admittedly it doesnt prove mine either.

What.

Quote:
For example, a fighter 19/summoner 1 normally has a total BAB of +19 (+19 from fighter, +0 from summoner), and when fused with his eidolon this increases to +20 (+19 from fighter, +1 from the 1st-level eidolon).
This is not 3.0 Monk Unarmed BAB.

Facepalm. Wow completely the opposite of what I said.

ForgottenRider wrote:
If you had a 19 levels if fighter and 1 level in synthesist when fused you would have a BAB of 1. It would work the same way in a gestalt game.
TOZ is correct, and he wasn't quoting you. He was quoting the official FAQ. You are incorrect. Your example is the opposite of the official FAQ response from the developers. If you had 1 level in Synth, and 19 levels in fighter, you'd have a 19 BAB when not fused, and a 20 BAB when fused.

The original comment

ForgottenRider wrote: wrote:


If you had a 19 levels if fighter and 1 level in synthesist when fused you would have a BAB of 1. It would work the same way in a gestalt game.
TCG wrote:
incorrect. You use the editions BAB for that class level just like with any other class combination. Ftr 19/ranger 1 has a BAB of +20, just like a Ftr19/synthesist 1 has a BAB of +20 when fused. That's already been addressed.

We are actually agreeing except that you think i'm saying something I'm not.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Man there is a lot of miscommunication going on here.


TOZ wrote:
Man there is a lot of miscommunication going on here.

Yea, I think something is lost in translation.

In summary to try and clarify;
FAQ says;

use the summoners BAB when not fused + any other classes BAB you may have and... (example Ftr1/synthesist 1 not fused BAB =1)

Use the Edilions BAB (which is better than the summoners) when fused + any other classes you may have. (example Ftr1/Synthesist1 Fused BAB = 2)

Does that help?


TOZ wrote:
Man there is a lot of miscommunication going on here.

Your face is a miscommunication!

Wait what? Where am I? Who are you? Who are all these people? Why does there mother dress them funny?

Shadow Lodge

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:


Yea, I think something is lost in translation.

Like the fact that mdt was answering ForgottenRider and not you?


TOZ wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:


Yea, I think something is lost in translation.
Like the fact that mdt was answering ForgottenRider and not you?

I think that probably had something to do with it. ;-)

Edit: I realized it only after posting. my bad.


TarkXT wrote:


Your face is a miscommunication!

Wait what? Where am I? Who are you? Who are all these people? Why does there mother dress them funny?

CAW!

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

I removed some posts. Please be civil when disagreeing.

Liberty's Edge

mdt wrote:
TOZ is correct, and he wasn't quoting you. He was quoting the official FAQ. You are incorrect. Your example is the opposite of the official FAQ response from the developers. If you had 1 level in Synth, and 19 levels in fighter, you'd have a 19 BAB when not fused, and a 20 BAB when fused.

I know, it was just that the FAQ example was completely the opposite of my example

Back on topic I think another cool gestalt would be alchemist 20/wizard 10 master alchemist 10 out of Magic of Faerun. Try to get a cohort with 7 level in cleric 10 master alchemist. For your 20 level alchemist grand discovery take Philospher's stone and try mixing it with potions of wish or miracle.


I just had mind burp:
Would a Knight/Cavalier be able to stack his challenges? They have the same name and are somewhat similar but are different abilities...
Thematically I could see a SGG Warmaster 20 / either Kinght or Cavalier 20

The Super Genius classes have some interesting possibilities. I'll see what I can come up with.


If by Knight you mean the 3.5 Knight, then yes you can. Be careful of your action economy though, I don't recall which actions the Knight's Challenges are.


kyrt-ryder wrote:
If by Knight you mean the 3.5 Knight, then yes you can. Be careful of your action economy though, I don't recall which actions the Knight's Challenges are.

Swwfit actions. You could challenge someone in one round, then challenge again in the next round. That's kinda hilarious to me, but the combination is pretty weak.

Now, a 3.5 Knight 11/Stalwart defender9//SGG Armiger 20 would be a sight to behold. All of those defensive powers! All that DR, that stacks too!!
I gotta stat this to see how high his defense can go.

Lantern Lodge

lets look at the hitpoints of your average CR14 military officer with 14 constitution, toughness, and favored class bonus HP, this is a conservative HP estimate of the officer.

150 (15 maximixed D10)
30 (14 Con)
15 (Favored Class)
15 (Toughness)
210 total
need 224 lethal damage to actually kill or 448 nonlethal damage.

lets look at how much nonlethal damage this roguebarian can do. i will assume he has a pre rage strength of 18 (including items), double slice, and a +2 enhancement on the damage of his unarmed strikes. this is me being a little bit generous with the strength score.

147 (average of 42d6)
28 (7x4)
21 (7x3 rage bonus)
14 (average of 7d3 unarmed)
14 (7x2)

224 lethal damage or 224 nonlethal in your case. this doesn't account for damage reduction. if lethal damage, it kills, if nonlethal, he just hit the threshold where all future damage is lethal. but the officer could be saved by something as minor as a source of 2 or more additional points of constitution, or even, a source of Damage Reduction, a source Granting DR 5 should be sufficient, but a source Granting DR of 10 or 15 would be preffered. some Basic DR would have allowed him a turn to begin to flee and call for help.

if you allowed and used 3.5 edition sources, the craven feat can add an additional 84 to the total

if you allowed and used ultimate combat, there is a 3 feat combo that adds 273 to the average damage in this case.

if you combine the 2 with the rough baseline, you are looking at 581 damage if all attacks hit. but without these sources, you would actually need lethal damage to actually kill.


Luminiere Solas wrote:
lets look at the hitpoints of your average CR14 military officer with 14 constitution, toughness, and favored class bonus HP, this is a conservative HP estimate of the officer.

That isn't an average officer. That's an exceptionally tough one. Drop the HP per HD by two and you've got an average officer.

Quote:
need 224 lethal damage to actually kill or 448 nonlethal damage.

Incorrect. Nonlethal goes to lethal as soon as nonlethal equals maximum hit points. You don't double-dip Constitution. With the above, we have an officer with 180 hp, needing 374 damage to drop from full to dead with nonlethal damage.

Quote:
lets look at how much nonlethal damage this roguebarian can do. i will assume he has a pre rage strength of 18 (including items), double slice, and a +2 enhancement on the damage of his unarmed strikes. this is me being a little bit generous with the strength score.

Why is he using unarmed strikes? Why on earth would he use unarmed strikes? That makes no sense. Try merciful weapons, flaming saps, or what-have-you. Unarmed Strikes are literally the worst possible option you could have chosen. Literally.

No, it isn't being generous with Strength. Start at 15 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con. That's only a 19 pb, and mentals are pretty much irrelevant to this character, so it could actually go much higher. Add 4 Str and Dex from a belt of physical might +4. Then add 3 Str from levels. That's 22 Strength.

Quote:

147 (average of 42d6)

28 (7x4)
21 (7x3 rage bonus)
14 (average of 7d3 unarmed)
14 (7x2)

Let's instead try:

189 (average of 42d8 sneak attack; Sacred Strike)
42 (7 attacks x +6 strength bonus)
21 (7 attacks x +3 strength bonus from greater rage)
49 (average of 7 attacks from merciful short swords)
14 (7 attacks x +2 enhancement bonus)
32 (4 primary hand attacks x +8 power attack damage)
12 (3 off-hand attacks x +4 power attack damage)

That yields 359 average damage. I never claimed that he did this particular thing with average damage; it happened once, in actual play, where the dice never roll the average.

That's nowhere close to optimized, either. It could go a lot higher. And, as mentioned, Ultimate Combat brings it to utterly ridiculous levels; Sap Adept plus Sap Master would add 546 average damage (84d8 total sneak attack from Sap Master's doubling plus 84*2 additional damage from Sap Adept). That would bring the total to 905 damage, enough to kill 2.4 of those average CR 14 officers from full health with nonlethal damage.


When playing with only Paizo published stuff...

Enhancement (Transmutation subschool) Scrollmaster Wizard / Bladebound Kensai Magus

You can ignore a huge amount of standard gold expenditures, and become a terrifying machine over time.

When playing with 3rd party stuff...

Enhancement Scrollmaster Wizard / Bladebound Cabalist Magus. And while you're at it, you tack on a level in Crossblooded sorcerer. Then you grab up an Eldritch Heritage.

By the end of things, you'll have three blood line arcana, full powers in one of the bloodlines, and a fourth bloodlines' powers of your choice.

Choose your powers right, and you could be looking at an absolutely insane amount of damage using specific spells. Or you could instead decide to be able to use any form of energy damage you like.

Or be able to use spells on every type of monster that should have been immune to them...

Lantern Lodge

@Fozbeck

with a 16 Dex, how is he getting greater 2WF, let alone improved. enhancement bonuses from items do not count towards feat prerequisites. and this roguebarian effectively dumped constitution. those rage HP won't last him forever. and his fortitude save is a joke compared to a proper barbarian.

He Wouldn't have survived very long if it weren't for the fact he gestalted barbarian and got maximized hit dice. i'm sure his will save sucked. why weren't you dropping the dominate spells and fear effects at this level?

and the CR14 officer who forgot to take toughness and favored class HP is a dead officer. i would reccomend that a smart officer take both and invest in a reliable source of damage reduction.

it seems that everyone can neglect thier constitution because they are getting free maximized hit dice.

The Exchange

Luminiere Solas wrote:

@Fozbeck

with a 16 Dex, how is he getting greater 2WF, let alone improved. enhancement bonuses from items do not count towards feat prerequisites. and this roguebarian effectively dumped constitution. those rage HP won't last him forever. and his fortitude save is a joke compared to a proper barbarian.

He Wouldn't have survived very long if it weren't for the fact he gestalted barbarian and got maximized hit dice. i'm sure his will save sucked. why weren't you dropping the dominate spells and fear effects at this level?

and the CR14 officer who forgot to take toughness and favored class HP is a dead officer. i would reccomend that a smart officer take both and invest in a reliable source of damage reduction.

it seems that everyone can neglect thier constitution because they are getting free maximized hit dice.

Actually, the enhancement bonuses do. It's temporary bonuses that don't count towards feats and such. Once the belt/headband is on for 24 hours, it becomes a permanent enhancement, thereby letting it count towards feats.


Luminiere Solas wrote:
enhancement bonuses from items do not count towards feat prerequisites.

False. If you're going to accuse me of fudging rules, perhaps you should actually know the rules yourself.

Quote:
and this roguebarian effectively dumped constitution. those rage HP won't last him forever. and his fortitude save is a joke compared to a proper barbarian.

With a d12 HD, +1 from base Con, +1 from favored class, and +1 from toughness, he has as many average hit points as your proposed Fighter would have with average hit points at level 12. And how is a +15 Fortitude save a joke at level 12 (8 base, 1 base con, 3 raging con, 3 cloak)? That's what a CR 12 monster would have for its good save. He's also got a +16 Reflex with Evasion (potentially Improved Evasion).

Quote:
He Wouldn't have survived very long if it weren't for the fact he gestalted barbarian and got maximized hit dice.

Players don't get maximized hit dice. We roll hit points.

Quote:
i'm sure his will save sucked. why weren't you dropping the dominate spells and fear effects at this level?

Because I wasn't the DM. Which I already stated. Not that you care; you've been openly hostile from the start. For the record, he failed a save against a symbol of insanity earlier in the campaign. Not that you care, again; you're out to "prove" me wrong at any cost, ignoring the fact that your goal is quite literally impossible to attain, because it actually happened.

Lantern Lodge

i'm merely trying to find alternative causes besides the roguebarian. because Full BAB/Sneak attack isn't as nasty as what a caster can do. why is it that martials can't have nice things?

so a rogue/barbarian happens to be a strength based dual wielding monstrocity? it's using boots of haste. if you were really upset about this monstrocity, why didn't you use a squad of slightly lower leveled Gestalted Archer/Casters? i'm sure 4 of them at level 9 is a reasonable encounter, each one standing on 4 seperate sniper towers at least 100 feet away surrounded by dificult terrain is a fair encounter for him. its even more fair if the whole ground is difficult terrain, the sniper towers are 100 feet high and the archer/casters are fully pre buffed and perfectly optimized for this task.

you shouldn't be using solo opponents.

there is a reason my players ask for "Extra Lives". i am quite the Killer DM. it's also why i am the least chosen DM of my groups. i literally blow through character sheets by the dozen, every session.

when i give ludicrously high point buy allotments, extra lives, a tagalong NPC healer, a monty haul of consumable utility goods and loads of DM boons, i usually have a pretty good reason for it. it's my conscience trying to be nice before i unleash my nasty multitemplated class leveled abominations of death.


So... hey guys how about a Warmaster 20/ sorcerer 20? I was thinking warmaster could be a good substitute for the usual paladin/sorcerer combo.


back on topic.

Is a mage/fighter too vanilla for an awesome multiclass?

Lantern Lodge

DM metagaming is perfectly fair, especially when players use "overpowered" options. especially when you are talking about anything over 10th level.

if players can make knowledge checks and force you to read statblocks to them, than the DM can look at the character sheets of the players and target thier weaknesses.

As a part time DM, i used a lot of metagaming.

i'm sorry if i came across as vulgar.

i don't see the roguebarian as disruptive, i see it as finally making the rogue not suck. i beleive they should have been full bab in the first place.


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

back on topic.

Is a mage/fighter too vanilla for an awesome multiclass?

Not at all, as long as you take feats to allow you casting in armor. It doesn't have the benefits of combining magic and attack in one action that a gish class normally has, and can get quite MAD, but he has a bigger spell list and BAB so it works out.

The paladin/sorcerer combo is an old favorite since both classes get a lot from high charisma.


I like Hexcrafter Magus /Armored Hulk Barbarian, yes I know I cannot cast spells and rage or use spell combat if two handing but I can debuff the enemies and buff myself than go to town.


VM mercenario wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

back on topic.

Is a mage/fighter too vanilla for an awesome multiclass?

Not at all, as long as you take feats to allow you casting in armor. It doesn't have the benefits of combining magic and attack in one action that a gish class normally has, and can get quite MAD, but he has a bigger spell list and BAB so it works out.

The paladin/sorcerer combo is an old favorite since both classes get a lot from high charisma.

Except I hate playing Paladin's. ;-) Truthfully I'd probably go ranger/wizard.

Liberty's Edge

ForgottenRider wrote:
mdt wrote:
TOZ is correct, and he wasn't quoting you. He was quoting the official FAQ. You are incorrect. Your example is the opposite of the official FAQ response from the developers. If you had 1 level in Synth, and 19 levels in fighter, you'd have a 19 BAB when not fused, and a 20 BAB when fused.

I know, it was just that the FAQ example was completely the opposite of my example

Back on topic I think another cool gestalt would be alchemist 20/wizard 10 master alchemist 10 out of Magic of Faerun. Try to get a cohort with 7 level in cleric 10 master alchemist. For your 20 level alchemist grand discovery take Philospher's stone and try mixing it with potions of wish or miracle.

Scratch master alchemist for the cohort. Just go 17 lvls cleric. We'll both get cooperative crafting.


Luminiere Solas wrote:

DM metagaming is perfectly fair, especially when players use "overpowered" options. especially when you are talking about anything over 10th level.

if players can make knowledge checks and force you to read statblocks to them, than the DM can look at the character sheets of the players and target thier weaknesses.

As a part time DM, i used a lot of metagaming.

i'm sorry if i came across as vulgar.

i don't see the roguebarian as disruptive, i see it as finally making the rogue not suck. i beleive they should have been full bab in the first place.

Yeah, see, we like to roleplay; in fact, that is the primary reason that we play gestalt almost exclusively, because it lets us play character concepts that really aren't possible (or aren't feasible) with normal multiclassing. As roleplayers, we like the world to make sense. The city guard all being uber-optimized gestalt archer|caster monstrosities because that's the only way to challenge the Roguebarian totally breaks immersion. It's fine for rollplaying because all you're looking for is challenging encounters, but if you want the world to have some internal consistency, you have to keep metagaming to an absolute minimum.

Note that it isn't metagaming for a BBEG to study the PCs over the course of the campaign and come up with specific strategies to defeat them. That's using in-character knowledge to prepare in-character strategies. Turning every city guardsman into ultra-elite soldiers is both A) incredibly time consuming, and B) metagaming.

Putting aside the fact that, again, I was not the DM for that particular play session, I'm not an incompetent DM. I TPK'd a gestalt party with a non-gestalt, by the book except for max HP, classed NPC. I run the meanest dragons in the group, with it being extremely rare for my dragons to not take out at least two gestalt party members before retreating or dying. I know what I'm doing. I'm not the world's best DM, but I know how to run a combat. And I'm advising that, in my experience, the full BAB rogue (not roguebarian in specific, any full BAB rogue) is very disruptive.

I will admit that I shouldn't have used the words "utterly broken" in my first post on the subject. That was hyperbole. It isn't broken, except in the sense that it shatters the expected damage assumptions of the game. It is, on the other hand, something that the DM will be absolutely forced to work around for every encounter for the entirety of the campaign. That is a lot of extra work for the DM.


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
VM mercenario wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

back on topic.

Is a mage/fighter too vanilla for an awesome multiclass?

Not at all, as long as you take feats to allow you casting in armor. It doesn't have the benefits of combining magic and attack in one action that a gish class normally has, and can get quite MAD, but he has a bigger spell list and BAB so it works out.

The paladin/sorcerer combo is an old favorite since both classes get a lot from high charisma.
Except I hate playing Paladin's. ;-) Truthfully I'd probably go ranger/wizard.

With some feats to mitigate the armor penalty even Fighter/Wizard could be cool.

But for ultimate gish I vote Magus (maybe with an archetype that removes spellstrike) 20 / Duskblade 13 /some PrC 7

I'm going to bed, but tomorrow I'l see what is the most magical rogue like I can make. I expect it to have some 4 or 5 classes...


If this stuff with Fozbek and Luminiere doesn't stop, I say we start flagging. I like this thread and don't want to see it burst into flames.


Druid|Magus with broad study.

If you can also multiclass, something like Druid N|Magus 6/Monk 1/Barbarian N-7 with broad study.


GâtFromKI wrote:

Druid|Magus with broad study.

If you can also multiclass, something like Druid N|Magus 6/Monk 1/Fighter N-7 with broad study.

What is broad study?


VM mercenario wrote:
If this stuff with Fozbek and Luminiere doesn't stop, I say we start flagging. I like this thread and don't want to see it burst into flames.

I'm more than happy for it to stop. If people would stop insulting me for stating my experiences in play, I would have no reason to defend myself.


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
What is broad study?

It's a Magus arcana which allow to use spell combat (and spellstrike) with an other spellcasting class. The requirement is magus level 6, so it's near useless for a multiclass character, but it should be usable for a gestalt character: it allow a gestalted druid to cast druid spells while full-attacking with wild shape.

Lantern Lodge

how about we stop this petty squabble, shake hands and agree to disagree? we appearantly have different DM styles, and i guess i took it a little too far.


GâtFromKI wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
What is broad study?

It's a Magus arcana which allow to use spell combat (and spellstrike) with an other spellcasting class. The requirement is magus level 6, so it's near useless for a multiclass character, but it should be usable for a gestalt character: it allow a gestalted druid to cast druid spells while full-attacking with wild shape.

I remember that now. I had forgotten what it was called.


Luminiere Solas wrote:
how about we stop this petty squabble, shake hands and agree to disagree? we appearantly have different DM styles, and i guess i took it a little too far.

Done and done.


ForgottenRider wrote:
It is, on the other hand, something that the DM will be absolutely forced to work around for every encounter for the entirety of the campaign. That is a lot of extra work for the DM.

Don't need a rogue/barian to smash those assumptions.

Cavalier/Paladin: Crushed.
Synthesist/Barbarian: Annihilated minced pounded pureed.
Magus/Any full bab class: Disintegrated.
Cavalier/Master Summoner: Good night. Sweet prince.
Gunslinger/Cavalier, Ranger, or Paladin: BOOM HEADSHOT!

Yeah the list goes on and one.

Liberty's Edge

TarkXT wrote:
ForgottenRider wrote:
It is, on the other hand, something that the DM will be absolutely forced to work around for every encounter for the entirety of the campaign. That is a lot of extra work for the DM.

Don't need a rogue/barian to smash those assumptions.

Cavalier/Paladin: Crushed.
Synthesist/Barbarian: Annihilated minced pounded pureed.
Magus/Any full bab class: Disintegrated.
Cavalier/Master Summoner: Good night. Sweet prince.
Gunslinger/Cavalier, Ranger, or Paladin: BOOM HEADSHOT!

Yeah the list goes on and one.

Fozbek said that not me


TarkXT wrote:
ForgottenRider wrote:
It is, on the other hand, something that the DM will be absolutely forced to work around for every encounter for the entirety of the campaign. That is a lot of extra work for the DM.
Don't need a rogue/barian to smash those assumptions.

What assumptions are you "smashing"? Nothing that you quoted was an assumption, so I have no clue what you are trying to accomplish.


Fozbek wrote:
It isn't broken, except in the sense that it shatters the expected damage assumptions of the game.

It seems in my zeal to throw down a fast quick opinion late at night i dropped the wrong poster and forgot to add the "assumptions" line.

Geatalt, by definition, shatters all assumptions that the game makes. Damage is actually one of the easiest to smash. So in the sense that it takes a lot of work for a GM to balance you are absolutely correct.


TarkXT wrote:
Geatalt, by definition, shatters all assumptions that the game makes. Damage is actually one of the easiest to smash. So in the sense that it takes a lot of work for a GM to balance you are absolutely correct.

In my experience, simply maximizing hit points takes care of the increased party power. Gestalt doesn't generally increase peak power much; it mostly increases sustained power. For important NPCs, we'll gestalt them as well to make them more special and give them more options, but 95% of the time maximum HP has kept combat parity for us.

I'll stress again that this is the result of my experience and my playgroup's experience. Your own mileage, as always, may vary.

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