I want to see in the dark!!


Advice


What is the least expensive magic item that allows a human to do this?

Darkvision, lowlight vision, infravision (does this even still exist?)


just get the party casters to cast light. darkvision isn't any stealthier.

darkvision is such a common monster power that it can be used against you, even if you have it. being able to see 60 feet in darkness doesn't matter if the enemy can actually see the same distance or farther. light isn't any less stealthy than darkvision because you will be detected either way. because stealth effectively always autofails.


Well, I guess you could take an Oracle with the Cloudy Vision curse ... but then you'd only be able to see 30 feet (60 feet at level 5) ...


I appreciate the suggestions.

however

I understand that I can cast a spell. My question is, what is the cheapest magic item that can do it? I know there are goggles of the night at 12k, anything cheaper?

Shadow Lodge

Goggles of Night, 12k. Assuming you want it always active. Otherwise, potions are much cheaper.


Shuriken Nekogami wrote:
light isn't any less stealthy than darkvision because you will be detected either way. because stealth effectively always autofails.

Uhm, what? No, it doesn't. I even think darkness allows you to hide "in plain sight" (not the ability) from darkvision enemies, though I can't swear on that. Also, invisible with darkvision is pretty nice - invisible with Light is pretty worthless.

Grand Lodge

Vuvu wrote:
I know there are goggles of the night at 12k, anything cheaper?

A scroll of Darkvision plus a scroll of Permanency cost 825gp, plus 5k gp for casting a permanency spell on top of a Darkvision spell. Total: 5825gp.

This assumes you have Permanency on your spell lists, however. If you're not a wiz nor a sorc, you might be able to borrow a ring of spell storing and have a wizard cast permanency from the scroll and into the ring, swap it, cast permanency from the ring on yourself, put the ring back.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Shuriken Nekogami wrote:
darkvision is such a common monster power that it can be used against you, even if you have it. being able to see 60 feet in darkness doesn't matter if the enemy can actually see the same distance or farther. light isn't any less stealthy than darkvision because you will be detected either way.

A light source (not necessarily the creatures in the light) can be seen from much farther away than 60 ft. Within 60 ft, there's not much difference to a creature with darkvision, but there's a very large difference outside of 60 ft.

The Exchange

IvanSanchez wrote:
Vuvu wrote:
I know there are goggles of the night at 12k, anything cheaper?
A scroll of Darkvision plus a scroll of Permanency cost 825gp, plus 5k gp for casting a permanency spell on top of a Darkvision spell. Total: 5825gp.

Nice trick, I.S.! Although such a combo is a little vulnerable to dispel magic (well, more likely vulnerable to greater dispel, which might catch it as a side-effect of targeting some other spell on you.)


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Dragonchess Player wrote:


A light source (not necessarily the creatures in the light) can be seen from much farther away than 60 ft.

+1.

I've always thought that casting light on an object or using a torch in the underdark is akin to broadcasting your location to the enemy. There is just no way to utilize stealth while bathed in light.

I think what the OP is looking for is a cheap option that will not paint him as a target while dungeon crawling.


Light is inferior as was pointed out, but one option for a non-caster is to be an Elf. Take the Lightbringer alternate trait and you get Light as a SLA if your Int is 10 or higher. So basically unless you make it a 7 at point buy. Best with an archery focused combat guy. Cast it on the arrow. Also, Lightbringer makes you immune to light based blindness and dazzled effects, handy for an archer. It also increases your caster level by 1 for light spells, but odds are if you're a spellcasting elf you'd prefer your original traits, which includes the equivalent of Spell Penetration and being immune to Sleep.

As for Darkvision and related, I can't think of any better options than was already listed. Oracle with Clouded Vision curse gets Darkvision 30 ft, expanding to 60 ft at 5th level. Though that's all that you can ever see. If you make the Oracle melee combat focused it's not that big a loss, plus you get bonus goodies down the line.


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As was mentioned, motions are 300gp a pop, scrolls just half that, and wands are 4500, which is 90gp per cast.
They all last 3 hours.

Continiously active, you won't get cheaper than the 12k though.


Play a half-orc. I'm pretty certain there's a trait or a feat so you can look like a human despite your heritage.


Trainwreck wrote:
Play a half-orc.

Thats the main reason I play half orcs.


Mage Evolving wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:


A light source (not necessarily the creatures in the light) can be seen from much farther away than 60 ft.
I think what the OP is looking for is a cheap option that will not paint him as a target while dungeon crawling.

DING DING DING!!!

Grand Lodge

Lincoln Hills wrote:
IvanSanchez wrote:


A scroll of Darkvision plus a scroll of Permanency cost 825gp, plus 5k gp for casting a permanency spell on top of a Darkvision spell. Total: 5825gp.

Nice trick, I.S.! Although such a combo is a little vulnerable to dispel magic (well, more likely vulnerable to greater dispel, which might catch it as a side-effect of targeting some other spell on you.)

If you have a fear of enemy spellcasters and dispel magic, then you can just pump up the effective caster level of the permanency scroll. As per the rules, permanency on top of darkvision can only be dispelled by a caster with more levels.

So, you get your darkvision scroll at 375gp, plus your permanency scroll cast at 18th level at 2250gp, plus the 5k at the time of reading. Grand total, 7625gp. Number of baddies with 19 spellcaster levels in a campaign casting any dispel or antimagic at the party? Very few. In my humble opinion, fewer than the chances of losing/breaking/having stolen your googles of night.

--

Anyway, if you just want a cheap risk-free of scouting a dungeon, I'd say get a familiar or animal companion and use it to scout ahead.

Or even better, get two levels of summoner (advanced player's guide). That'll get you, for free (0 gp), a small, inconspicuous extraplanar awake 24/7, with built-in darkvision that can fly, and that allows you to see through its eyes (limited, yeah, but still).

I guess you can achieve similar combos with a druid/ranger animal companion or with a wizard/witch familiar and some spells thrown in for good measure.

Don't want to be a target? Then scout by proxy!


IvanSanchez wrote:
Or even better, get two levels of summoner (advanced player's guide). That'll get you, for free (0 gp), a small, inconspicuous extraplanar awake 24/7, with built-in darkvision that can fly, and that allows you to see through its eyes (limited, yeah, but still).

Eidolons can't fly until the Summoner is at least 5th level. At any rate, even a two level dip is hardly free. It may be worth it, but it's not free. Gotta love opportunity cost.

I do agree that familiars and similar options do make excellent scouts though.

Grand Lodge

Ranger Infiltrator archetype. http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/coreClasses/ranger.html

Sadly this costs 3 levels, the other option is two levels of ninja, and taking Darkvision ninja trick. http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/classes/ninja.html

Scarab Sages

nategar05 wrote:


Oracle with Clouded Vision curse gets Darkvision 30 ft, expanding to 60 ft at 5th level. Though that's all that you can ever see. If you make the Oracle melee combat focused it's not that big a loss, plus you get bonus goodies down the line.

Depending on how your character is built: dipping 1 level synthesist can get you darkvision 60', Low-light vision 60' and +8 to your perception rolls.

Viable if your a caster, not so much if your a melee.

Scarab Sages

Kais86 wrote:

Ranger Infiltrator archetype. http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/coreClasses/ranger.html

Sadly this costs 3 levels, the other option is two levels of ninja, and taking Darkvision ninja trick. http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/classes/ninja.html

Or two levels of shadowdancer, which also also allows you to hide in plain sight.


Artanthos wrote:
nategar05 wrote:


Oracle with Clouded Vision curse gets Darkvision 30 ft, expanding to 60 ft at 5th level. Though that's all that you can ever see. If you make the Oracle melee combat focused it's not that big a loss, plus you get bonus goodies down the line.

Depending on how your character is built: dipping 1 level synthesist can get you darkvision 60', Low-light vision 60' and +8 to your perception rolls.

Viable if your a caster, not so much if your a melee.

The problem with that is that if you only ever take one level, you'll barely have HP for the Eidolon version of you. One not even big hit and it's gone for the day. Other than that, it'd be good.


Artanthos wrote:
Kais86 wrote:

Ranger Infiltrator archetype. http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/coreClasses/ranger.html

Sadly this costs 3 levels, the other option is two levels of ninja, and taking Darkvision ninja trick. http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/classes/ninja.html

Or two levels of shadowdancer, which also also allows you to hide in plain sight.

Before you make a Shadowdancer make sure there are shadows in your world. Nothing quite like taking quite a few levels in a mostly worthless class. : P


Be a ranger, There are a few ways a human ranger can get dark vision, or at least low light vision.

Liberty's Edge

Take one level of Dark Tapestry Oracle and select the Pierce the Veil revelation.

Take two levels of shadowdancer.

Take one level of Orc bloodline sorcerer (makes you light sensitive, though, which means a -1 to attack and perception checks when in light thanks to being dazzled).

Take two levels of Natural Weapon ranger, then take Aspect of the Beast as your bonus feat (only works with low-light vision races, otherwise you just get low-light vision). This is also weak because it only gives 30ft.

(Identical drawbacks to the above:) Two levels of mooncaller druid.

Reincarnate as a creature that has darkvision (risky, only 1-in-3 shot of working, but it only costs about 4k including hiring costs and healing the neg levels).

The best option for most builds would be one level of oracle or sorcerer. The reincarnate (on average) has the same cost as the item, but has fall-out for the character depending on what creature they come back as (a kobold barbarian is no good, but a goblin rogue or bugbear barbarian? oh man). It is also a gamble and a major change for the character.

Alter self can be used to grant darkvision, but I have a hard time seeing how it could be used to make a cheaper effect (unless you become a shapechanger somehow).


StabbittyDoom wrote:


(Identical drawbacks to the above:) Two levels of mooncaller druid.

2 levels in most of the totemic shaman archtypes for druids give you an option for low-light vision: Dragon, Saurian, plus pretty much any of the animal ones (via Totemic Transformation ability) (Or if you're feeling frisky, go with Bat Shaman for 20' Blindsense)

A 1st level druid with the Cave terrain domain can give themselves (or another) limited Darkvision as well.

At the cost of 2 feats (Skill Focus (Stealth), Eldritch Heritage (Shadow)) you get darkvision of 30' that improves to 60' when you hit level 6.

Liberty's Edge

EvilMinion wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:


(Identical drawbacks to the above:) Two levels of mooncaller druid.

2 levels in most of the totemic shaman archtypes for druids give you an option for low-light vision: Dragon, Saurian, plus pretty much any of the animal ones (via Totemic Transformation ability) (Or if you're feeling frisky, go with Bat Shaman for 20' Blindsense)

A 1st level druid with the Cave terrain domain can give themselves (or another) limited Darkvision as well.

At the cost of 2 feats (Skill Focus (Stealth), Eldritch Heritage (Shadow)) you get darkvision of 30' that improves to 60' when you hit level 6.

I didn't mention the last one because it's 3 feats, the last of which doesn't hit until 11th character level and requires 15 cha. Eldritch Heritage gives you the 1st level power with the 1st feat, then the 3rd *or* 9th (but can be taken again to get the other one) with the second feat, then the 15th level power with the 3rd feat (at level 17 with 17 cha).

By the time you're 3 feats in, it's better just to take a one level dip into something to get the ability.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

We did one AP with a party that was almost all tieflings (and bought a darkvision item for the one PC who was not). Darkvision is *great*, especially for stealth missions; almost essential for stealth missions against things that have darkvision themselves (which this particular AP was crawling with, as it turned out).

The GM did enforce social sanctions against tieflings, though as the campaign has gone on their increasing political power has mitigated some of the problems. I didn't mind; I thought that added an interesting flavor. The one PC who is a human-looking tiefling has had to tie herself in knots to keep the secret--we have contingency plans for when it's exposed, as I suspect it eventually must be--and that's been entertaining.


Synthesist Summoner dip would be a good one. Life Link (or Fused Link in the case of a Synthesist) would keep your Eidolon version of you alive for most of your HP. I apologize, for earlier some guy hacked my account. I'm not sure what his stats are, but I'm pretty sure his Int was dumped at character creation.

*rolls Bluff check*

Oh well, t'was worth a shot. I blame my job for causing 2d6 Int damage.


StabbittyDoom wrote:


I didn't mention the last one because it's 3 feats, the last of which doesn't hit until 11th character level and requires 15 cha. Eldritch Heritage gives you the 1st level power with the 1st feat, then the 3rd *or* 9th (but can be taken again to get the other one) with the second feat, then the 15th level power with the 3rd feat (at level 17 with 17 cha).

By the time you're 3 feats in, it's better just to take a one level dip into something to get the ability.

Ooops, I misread the ability as the 1st level one, not the 3rd... was thinking you got it with just Eldritch. My bad! You are 100% correct, much bigger commitment otherwise.


Vuvu wrote:

What is the least expensive magic item that allows a human to do this?

Darkvision, lowlight vision, infravision (does this even still exist?)

Get a wand of Darkvision (4500gp) last for 3 hour per use

Potions also work though you still spend a lot more trying to match the charges in the wand.

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