Is this wrong and have you done this as a DM?


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Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Assassins. They've been a part of D&D since 1st edition, heck way back in Basic D&D you could hire an assassin if I'm not mistaken (or was that a spy?).

So one character in our campaign stole a very powerful book from a very powerful NPC. Now the NPC has sent several minions after the character in the past. These minions have always demanded the book, and attacked when the character (and the party), refused to hand over the book.
The NPC is getting frustrated and is thinking to just send an assassin after the character, kill them in their sleep and take the book.

Here's my dilemma, my players really don't protect themselves very well when they rest for the evening, especially in inns (they usually get seperate rooms), so it will probably be very easily for an assassin to sneak into the character's room, coup de grace them and probably kill the character (an alchemist).

My question to you is: Is this fair? And if so, have you done it yourself and how did it go?
Reebo

Grand Lodge

Certainly fair. Give them the relevant skill checks to notice the assassin, and if they fail, the Fort save to avoid death. If you want to make it easier, have the assassin sneak up on them while they are awake.


Hi Reebo,

It's fair if you apply Perception skill check and the rules of death attack. Remember the -10 penalty due to sleep. If you fear your players will resent the death of their companion, make the death attack a paralyzing one (see death attack rules in the PFSRD under the Assassin PrC). In all cases, if the assassin succeeds, steal the book. If the hit fails, be ready to up the stakes (more hitmen, poison,...). Make them fear and hate your NPC.

Now, as a DM, you have the sequel of your campaign ready. Your players have two major villains to deal with : the assassin and the NPC who ordered the hit. They also have gained a healthy dose of paranoia which will help them in the future, no doubt. That's experience. And revenge will be sweeter afterwards, believe me. It also sends a clear message to them : don't mess with powerful NPC unless you're powerful enough yourself not to fear retaliation.

I did something quite similar during my Shackled City campaign a few years ago, and my players absolutely loved it. They tracked the assassin until they cornered and finished him, and I felt they were delighted. Then they tried to guess who ordered the hit until they crossed the path of

:
a certain beholder ;o)

Bran

Liberty's Edge

The original owner don't seem to like needlessly violence (his previous emissaries tried to talk before resorting to violence).

So why he didn't send a high level rogue instead of a assassin?

If the characters aren't taking precautions recovering the book and relieving the alchemist of some choice items wouldn't be a bit problem for a skilled thief.

Grand Lodge

Ooo, thanks Bran, you reminded me of my own Shackled City assassin story.

Shackled City spoiler:
Knowing the party was going to be at the Demonskar Ball, and thus less armored than usual, Orbius ordered Jil to assault them on their way home, and kidnap the Shackleborn member.

The party was riding in their tricked out carraige, feeling good about their accomplishments, when they saw the street ahead lined with Last Laugh members. So what do they do? Leap into the fray, of course. :)

The Shackleborn member was a fighter, and thus charged into the midst. Which played right into the enemies hands. The thugs closed ranks, cutting him off from the party. Meanwhile, Jil invisibly spider-climbed down from the roof, maneuvering into position for a Death Attack.

The party warlock with See the Unseen failed his Spot check, and then Jil struck, using the paralyzing option of Death Attack. Fighter goes down, is grabbed by Jil, and with a sly 'Mission accomplished!' taunt to the party, dimension doors him away.

Since everything was on the level dice-wise, no hard feelings were had, and the party got to be the big damn heroes before the bad guys carted him out of reach.


Diego Rossi wrote:

The original owner don't seem to like needlessly violence (his previous emissaries tried to talk before resorting to violence).

So why he didn't send a high level rogue instead of a assassin?

If the characters aren't taking precautions recovering the book and relieving the alchemist of some choice items wouldn't be a bit problem for a skilled thief.

My thoughts exactly Diego, why kill the PC when you can just have the assassin steal the book when he gets into the room. This would leave a whole nother aspect to the campaign that they could explore, if you want them to take that path, of who took the book and why, or if you want them to face the NPC, have the assassin leave a note saying who has the book and if they want it they can come and get it. If they really want the book that badly, make them work for it to get it back.


This is totally above-board, consequences-of-your-actions type stuff. That said, it's not particularly fun. What I'd probably do is have some other patron of the place discover the assassin through sheer chance. The assassin keeps going but it'll take a round or two to get to the target. That gives a legitimate reason to give the player(s) more than one Perception check to wake up. It also gives the rest of the party the opportunity to help the target; if someone other than the alchemist wakes up, they can start yelling their head off or physically intervene.

Basically by injecting another NPC you give the players a chance to save themselves. This will also teach them the lesson about not taking precautions at night.


The DM in our Kingmaker game pulled something like this, and got crucified by the players. As a player in a game, you don't want your character to die from something that you feel you have no control over. Even two fort saves (one from the coup de grace, one from the death attack) isn't enough when most threats of death come from combat.

I agree that it's legitimate, but play it cautiously. In the end, you know your players better than anyone else, so you're the best judge of how it will turn out.


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In a situation like this, I feel that the villain would place a bounty on the head of the person, place a bounty on getting the property back, or have a way to remote detonate the book.

One of the most fun ways to detonate a book is to put explosive runes on the last page and wait. 4d6 damage is usually enough to take down a book.


Does he want them dead or the book back?

If he just wants the book it seems would be cheaper (tends to draw less attention, town leaders don't get as upset, etc.) to hire a cleric/rogue for retrieval. The cleric/rogue casts Silence & Sanctuary, breaks in while there sleeping, gets the book, and leaves. If the guy wakes it shouldn't be THAT hard to get away if he has trouble yelling for help. Now if the NPC REALLY wants the guy dead, yeah go for it.

Liberty's Edge

Do you have a planned way of resurrecting the fallen character without it being costly to the party? Slapping hte party with onehand but then offering them candy with the other can help sooth any hard feelings.

Meanwhile, if it makes sense to the plot then it is worth doing. Firstly the fun of seeing the PC's face as the player dies and the relief when he gets a resurrect. The players learn a good lesson and no harm is really done - you don't let your guard down especially when you steal somehting from someone powerful! And really, seperate rooms at the inn? They should have had an assassin come and kill them a long time ago! My group always couple up. True, we don't guard when at an inn as we have no reason to be that paranoid (though in a campaign wen we had stolenan item from some scary people you can bet we did!) but we always pair up in rooms.


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Anguish's suggestion above is good. Also, how does this assassin find them? How does this assassin know which room the alchemist is in? The answers to these questions may also prompt ideas for ways the PCs can become aware they are being hunted. It could be as simple as the innkeeper saying, "Hey, Alchemist. An old friend of yours was looking for you today. Told him what room your in. Hope you don't mind."


Sometimes, the PCs need to be reminded that their actions have consequences. I see this a lot in my group. We have some players who will mouth off, be rude, and talk back to anyone; up to and including gods. They are playing chicken with the GM, assuming that the GM is not going to smite them "arbitrarily". They should be executed/smote/imprisoned and making a new character, but the GM never calls them on their behavior, so it continues.

"Why should I bow to the King?"
"He's not -MY- god!, I'm not kneeling"
"I don't care if it's a social event, I go in full combat kit, what do I care what they think?"

If the PCs are stealing things from powerful NPCs, they should expect consequences. From a "fair play" standpoint, I'd give them a bit of foreshadowing before an assassin interrupts their sleep. Unless they stole something from the head of the assassin's guild, then they should expect to wake up with a knife in their ribs...


Reebo Kesh wrote:
Assassins. They've been a part of D&D since 1st edition, heck way back in Basic D&D you could hire an assassin if I'm not mistaken (or was that a spy?).

I don't know, but new things are good, too.

Reebo Kesh wrote:


So one character in our campaign stole a very powerful book from a very powerful NPC. Now the NPC has sent several minions after the character in the past. These minions have always demanded the book, and attacked when the character (and the party), refused to hand over the book.
The NPC is getting frustrated and is thinking to just send an assassin after the character, kill them in their sleep and take the book.

Seems reasonable. Steel from a guy and the guy, especially if he's evil, will get the thing back. With interest. And mutilated enemies are quite interesting.

Reebo Kesh wrote:


Here's my dilemma, my players really don't protect themselves very well when they rest for the evening, especially in inns (they usually get seperate rooms), so it will probably be very easily for an assassin to sneak into the character's room, coup de grace them and probably kill the character (an alchemist).

Wait, I'm getting mixed signals here. You say they're totally helpless because of their cocky recklessness, and you have a dilemma? Okay I get it, I sometimes feel guilty when I get handed victories, but I always think of it as a deserved freebie to balance out the hard work I do on other stuff.

As I'm always saying: An adventurer who's tired of making sure assassins won't just stroll in at night and murderise them to death is tired of being alive.

Reebo Kesh wrote:


My question to you is: Is this fair?

Nothing to do with fair. They still have a chance of survival, and if not, consider the money it will take them to raise their dead companion from the dead a tuition fee for the school of hard knocks.


What is "fair" logical, real, etc. doesn't always make for a good gaming session. Getting murdered in your sleep isn't an epic way to die, it is a very frustrating death.

I would avoid having the kind of campaign where everyone (including the evil guys) are in constant fear of getting coup de graced without notice.

It would probably be a more enjoyable encounter for all involved if the assassin strikes after a moderate encounter, or when the characters have taken their armor off, but not when they are sound asleep.

One more thing, the DC to notice someone while you are sleeping is probably out of the range of most characters, and surviving a coup de grace generally requires rolling a 20. Considering the odds involved, ganking someone in their sleep is pretty much guaranteed death.


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So did I ever tell you about the time my PCs pissed off a rich bureaucrat and ended up with a horse's head in their bed, specifically one of their horses?

It was a warning. Then the group continued to irk the bureaucrat. Assassination attempts happened, with attempted arrow sniper shots through the window of the inn room the party had rented. One guy was downed. The party got the message.

Then again, my PCs know that I am a merciless and 'wanting to murder your face off' GM, so they also know to at least set up basic defenses. I feel no remorse if they die due to a lack of reasonable paranoia.


Seems like you've given them more than ample warnings that these people are dangerous and not to be f~!!ed with, plus they should know this is a world of assassins.

Rules are, if I recall that the PCs get to make a perception check whilst sleeping so there's always the chance the assassin can mess up his roll and step on the half-orc accidently or something else. This will wake them up and tell them to be careful when sleeping.

If you really want to give them a choice then if this is Golarian have the Red Mantis Assassin's jump them by doing something either by jumping them in a dark alley or having a staged kidnapping, making sure the PCs hear about it and go for it where they'll jump down from the shadows once the PCs are in the traps. Not all Assassin's kill the targets when they sleep. Some perfer to have a sense of honour and would perfer to face the PCs whilst they are away, but that's not to say they're above using sneaky tactics to mess with the party. Hell, you could even poison their breakfast if they don't check it over carefully. Afterall, a Inn is not an impenetrable fortress.

Dark Archive

I agree with Fergie. The question you should be asking is not, "Is it fair?" The question should be, "Is it fun?" That's the job of the GM, not making sure NPCs get their due.

That being said, what stops you from upping the power level of the opponents you have already sent against them? How about making the book cursed?

As others have mentioned, make sure it's something the PCs think they have control over.

I would have the previous owner try to negotiate for his book back, and then screw the PCs over on the deal. I love it when my PCs really hate the villain.

Dark Archive

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The paralyzing attack seems the best way; make the assassin take the sap feats in Ultimate Combat and knock the book holder out (with paralysis save; or lots of non-lethal if he makes save); and steal the book. The party will hate the NPC, set up watches better, and attempt to retrieve the book. Regardless it will instill a sense of paranoia.

Flat-out killing is no fun, and will just add a sense of GM hate. You want them to hate the NPC and want to kill him, not you.

Liberty's Edge

Personally, I'd be more inclined to send a rogue, steal the book back, and leave a dagger on their pillow with a note to the effect of:

"You owe me your life. I'll call this due when it suits me. Until then, leave my book and I in peace. You won't get another warning."


DM Aron Marczylo wrote:
Hell, you could even poison their breakfast if they don't check it over carefully. Afterall, a Inn is not an impenetrable fortress.

Was just thinking in that direction too, though maybe it should rather be dinner or the beer. That would actually be the style of the Assassins Guild of Daggermark, i believe.

Once a group i played in was wiped out by assassins because we failed to buy antitoxin KNOWING that they´d come out for us... in Thay, no hurt feelings, just a shame, because the campaign ended there.
So more mercifull and fair warning at least, how about none-lethal poisons? Blue Whinnis or Drow poison or the ingested equivalent?
Edit: I´m sure the NPC can afford something more potent with harder saves;)


My first DM that taught me was taught by his father. His father was a very deadly DM: the type that when you walk into a room, if you don't look up at the ceiling, you're more than likely rerolling characters in a few minutes.

Fortunately for me, his son didn't turn out to be the exact same, but he for sure did not care if he killed a PC. I saw one character almost die to falling off of a horse at first level: 1d6 damage (that rule still exists in Pathfinder). Our DM threw something akin to a transportable fortress, the bottom floor of which had a magic door that had at least one 9th level wizard spell to protect it (killed my character and another), more than likely more than that, though. One time the party came across a giant door and after a week of trying to open it, we finally did, just to find a CR 17 demon sealed behind it: our EPL was maybe 12 at both of the above instances.

The point is, any given world -is- deadly, and while you -are- the DM, trying to give your players a fun time, the players will learn how to counteract what you throw at them - in this case, they might lose an alchemist but they will gain the knowledge that they need to watch their backs more. Yeah, they're heroes, but heroes have enemies and if the enemies always stumble up to them and exclaim their intent to show them who's boss and NEVER learn, then your players will more than likely get bored with it. I know I like to be challenged as a player. If my character is always protected by the DM, why am I heroic?


I'm in the "Avoid death" camp, at least for the first time the stakes get escalated. Send the assassin. Have him take the book, the alchemist's formula book, anything obviously magical, and anything jewelry-ish (amulets, rings, etc). If the character is wearing the things, do a paralyzing death attack, then take them off him. Possibly follow up the paralysis with a few rounds of non-lethal sneak attacks. Make sure the character knows why the assassin is there, and why he's not dead (Stereotype: "Now you just lay there while I take that nice ring of yours. It's alway so much easier to do this once you're dead, but I have orders to leave you alive to see the error of your ways. Nighty night!")

If you want to really go all-out on this, take the player out of the room, describe what all happened, and tell him to not say anything to anyone until you give the ok. Then bring him back, and tell the rest of the party that he doesn't come down to join them in the morning, make them break down the door (or unlock it, or get the innkeeper to unlock it) and they walk in to find him lying on the bed covered with bruises and unconscious. When they wake him up, he can tell them what happened.


I'd say I fall into the camp of "Depends on the previous encounters"
You see here's my take. If they know the npc is powerful and has lots of hired goons hunting them (as mentioned) and they just bite their thumbs at them, then eventually said NPC is going to be just tired of it and want his property back. Here's the tricky part. It all depends on the NPC more than anything. What have you built him as? Is he a ruthless tyrant or overlord type? Then an assassination is in order, but given that his guys keep showing up and demanding things and fighting for it that isn't his style. I'd say the paralyzing teach them a lesson assassin is the next step. Or a scry and teleport retrieval team. If I had lots of money and didn't want to deal with a pc who stole something important from me I know I'd hire rival adventurers to get it back. Tell them about the team and let them study them and retrive the book. Whether the Pcs lose or win doesn't matter at that point, they end up with rivals and a new reason to dislike th npc. Also this could be a distraction for a rogue hired by the npc to steal the book thereby double-crossing both groups of adventurers... Lots of ideas here.


You could always make it a kidnapping. The big powerful NPC wants to deal with the thief personally. Then the party has a new quest to rescue their friend!


I'd warn the pc somehow. overhear something big going down tonight while he is in a tavern, or no-name npc shows up to warn the pc (can be written in to a bigger story arc as far as the book is concerned) or even an npc that works for the big-boss will warn the pc of the assassin for a price.

or, have the first assassination attempt fail. ie bob orders some food at the tavern, and the new waitress, Jill, after having flirted with the pc a little, gets his order wrong and gives it to some other dude. then have the other dude die from poison. when the pc realized the poison was meant for him, he will be on his guard a little more, and knows something is up.

you could also have some mangy stray dog start following the pc around, and insist on sleeping outisde the pc's door everynight, and have the dog bark at EVRYTHING that moves. i'm talkig a leaf falls from a tree, dog barks. fly whizzes by, dog barks. have the pc not get any sleep, and start getting annoyed. on the night the assassin is going to show up, either the dog barks its fool head off and finally makes the pc go nuts, or the dog is deadly quiet, because it is scared of the assassin.

it's the little things like that the pc's notice.


Give em their chance to notice (-10).
If not, let the assassin deliver the CDG, grab the book and run for it.
Then let some NPC offer advice on how to get their buddy rezzed, and introduce them to a guy (a temporary replacement PC) to help the party get their friend revived.


Normally sleeping doesn't entitle you to make a CdG attack (magically sleeping generally does). At least that's the way we've always played going back to 1st edition. Yes, a surprise round is almost a foregone conclusion in such cases.


I'd say its almost required that you do Something about the theft- whether its an assassin or just a very skilled thief (to steal it back, and maybe something the PC prizes as well).

The problem with the game world is that its not very difficult for the PC's to very quickly become more powerful than a nation's army. You have to maintain a viable game world though and when they get too big for their britches- say by stealing things from powerful people- you have to be prepared to bring things back into alignment.

An assassin, a hit squad, a couple of CR+3 demons, whatever the "evil guy" would do to get his book back.

Your PC's are thieves there- there shouldn't be any thought of mercy on them. They stole the item and if they are too daft to protect themselves from its rightful owner then they can think about that while they are rolling up a new character.

If they are gonna go around being thieves, they need to be at least somewhat smart about it or they'll end up with their heads on pikes.

-S


Usually I'll remind the players of the situation with what we call 'gut checks'. Basically an int/wisdom check to remember 'hey we pissed off that guy who sent minions to kill us...maybe an alarm spell or two are in order at least.

Edit: Note, night ambushes are just fine in my book, but just cutting a player's throat in their sleep, even if it's 'fair' wont make for a good game session.


Playing out an assasination encounter which comprises a few saving throws and a likely argument about whether for this particular night the player really intended to take a whole range of precautions is far less fun than having the players become aware that an expensive contract has been taken out on one of them.

You've got a ready made adventure rather than an argument. What do they do? Try and lay a trap for the assassin? Try and take out their employer? Maybe a friend betrays them for the money or great aunt gladys gets kidnapped.


Reebo Kesh wrote:

Assassins. They've been a part of D&D since 1st edition, heck way back in Basic D&D you could hire an assassin if I'm not mistaken (or was that a spy?).

So one character in our campaign stole a very powerful book from a very powerful NPC. Now the NPC has sent several minions after the character in the past. These minions have always demanded the book, and attacked when the character (and the party), refused to hand over the book.
The NPC is getting frustrated and is thinking to just send an assassin after the character, kill them in their sleep and take the book.

Here's my dilemma, my players really don't protect themselves very well when they rest for the evening, especially in inns (they usually get seperate rooms), so it will probably be very easily for an assassin to sneak into the character's room, coup de grace them and probably kill the character (an alchemist).

My question to you is: Is this fair? And if so, have you done it yourself and how did it go?
Reebo

It is not fair or unfair. Different groups just play differently. If you are going to move up to this level though I would give an OOC warning about possible bad things due to lack of tactis. If they refuse to heed your words then do your worse.

Sovereign Court

DM Dan E wrote:

Playing out an assasination encounter which comprises a few saving throws and a likely argument about whether for this particular night the player really intended to take a whole range of precautions is far less fun than having the players become aware that an expensive contract has been taken out on one of them.

You've got a ready made adventure rather than an argument. What do they do? Try and lay a trap for the assassin? Try and take out their employer? Maybe a friend betrays them for the money or great aunt gladys gets kidnapped.

I agree. This is a great story arc that can be shaped in a way that is dramatic and interesting.

If your game is a pure sandbox and just want the players to bump into the physics engine of the setting then I suppose just offing the character in their sleep will be part of the whole promise of having a detached GM at the helm.

However if you are a GM that tries to shape some semblance of story into the game then you'd really want to let the players become aware of contract, perhaps through an ineffectual initial attack, or maybe have an interesting social encounter where they find out about it via an odd source. Then the players can become paranoid, perhaps even lay a trap for the assassin, or make a little fortress in their favorite Inn's bedroom. If the players make no effort after a solid dramatic build up, well... then the consequences fit the player's detachment from the game.


This thread is making me so paranoid for my own characters.

Time to buy some nighttime inn defenses, such as "Create Lesser Demiplane".


Does the Npc have a good relationship with the city gaurds. the PC could be exiled from the city. Now if there is adventure in the city this can lead of tense moments of trying to sneak the npc in.


Any group who has enemies should know better than to not protect themselves.

Even in an inn, lean a sword against the door, over a pot/pan, so if someone enters, it falls and makes a ruckus, waking the party. Put caltrops on the windowsill, camouflaged by a cloth. And sleep with a weapon under your pillow.

It's not paranoia when people are out to get you.

Grand Lodge

It's not your dilemma if the party doesn't take basic precautions. The bad guy doesn't know (or care) that they are poorly defended, he just wants his book back. (Although relying on a PC to have the book on him is shaky).

If you want to be nice, then you could have an underworld buddy warn them, "I don't want to get involved, but word in the street is that Mr. Big has put a contract out on you because you have some of his property".

If you don't want to be quite so nice, have the assassin deliver the head of a cohort or an NPC they are closely tied to wth a message that Mr. Big wants his book back and this is their final warning.

Either of these allow the party to return the book and/or to improve their security. Then you turn the assassin loose.


One elementary problem seems to be that the party is still inexperienced. Help them to get this experience, for example you could stall the assassin action and have some common housebreaker steal stuff et voila, the party starts to sleep protected. Or if it is time for some assassin action, do something that doesn't kill the victim, for example the assassin gets interupted but manages to stab his target, infusing poison -> quest. Or say instead of stabbing his target, he just steals one single strand of hair... (and goes voodoo on the target if they don't bring him the book)

The Exchange

Spes Magna Mark wrote:

Anguish's suggestion above is good. Also, how does this assassin find them? How does this assassin know which room the alchemist is in? The answers to these questions may also prompt ideas for ways the PCs can become aware they are being hunted. It could be as simple as the innkeeper saying, "Hey, Alchemist. An old friend of yours was looking for you today. Told him what room your in. Hope you don't mind."

You can combine this with Anguish's idea in a nice way. If they manage to avoid the assassin due to the clue from SMM above, have him continue to track them. Have them be given lodging by a patron, or a noble and let the assassin make his move. Make the NPC that gets in the way and gets killed someone important. "You accepted my hospitality knowing that this killer was after you?"


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what you really want to avoid is an us vs them mentality. if you tell your sleeping player to roll a perception check at -10, and he fails, and then say , ok, roll a save, and then he fails, and you say ok, you died. gubnock the assassin just took you out for not returning the book, you're going to lose 99.9% of your GM Street Cred with your group.

that's a fact.

If you have any respect for your players as individuals, you will warn them somehow.

If you ever read any Robert E. Howard books, in the Novel, The "Hour Of The Dragon", King Conan sends the vile Wizard Xaltotun a letter telling him he is coming for him.

You could do that as well. have the NPC send him a letter, or even a personal messenger, "If I don't get my book back, there will be dire repercussions, as Gubnock is coming for you."

and of course a very easy Knowledge check reveals that Gubock is a vile assassin that has never failed, never been caught, and always gets his man.

and then send the stray mangy dog to the pc. :)


Swordsmasher wrote:
If you have any respect for your players as individuals, you will warn them somehow.

The problem is, if you read the OP, this is pretty much what has been done:

"Gimme book or you die" -> "no thx" -> *fight* -> *victory* -> LOL

The NPC who wants the book would have to have mental stats below 6 to just try a variant of the same thing. Trying a new approach, as natural and obvious as using assassins instead of thugs, isn't GM antagonism. It's progressive NPC antagonism, which is why arch-enemies are so great - they get to know the PCs and use that knowledge as a weapon.

An important thing is to separate NPC antagonism from GM antagonism, by (as a GM) being fair, giving unbiased chances, and making sure the players have fun, even if their character ends up getting screwed. There are lots of ways to do this:

  • If a PC gets killed or taken out of the game, provide temporary PCs so they aren't left out of the fun.
  • Allow the means for dead PCs to get rezzed. At first this might require quests or similar, until they can just raise dead on their own.
  • If a player is willing and trustworthy, and their PC is taken out, give them an NPC (even an enemy; be sure to take them aside and quickly brief them on the badguy's powers, motives and tactics, first).
  • Incorporate some "script immunity" mechanics that allow for 1 or more lucky breaks per game session. Then, even if they get killed, they can burn up script immunity and miraculously survive anyway

Shadow Lodge

I agree with both points:

A) Getting killed in your sleep isn't fun. And fun is the #1 job, period, end of story.

B) Big-time NPC's can do nasty things, and should or otherwise they're just goblins in fancy clothes.

In that light, I'd mix the two. Have the PC's meet an alchemist very similar to the targeted character, preferably more powerful than the party, by at least a level or two. They interact in the inn for a while and she offers to do something together tomorrow. Then have them awakened in the night when someone discovers the blood in the inn's hallway. The alchemist was murdered by an assassin - she didn't stand a chance - and her room ransacked. It appears as though the assassin was looking for a book of some sort.

That kind of thing.


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I've played (and DMed) at least one high-level campaign who was like that: PCs lived in fear and paranoia 24/7. They only camped at Rope Trick/refuge/mansion spells and were prone to teleporting to safe places and getting back the other day.

It sucked.

Both from a story perspective (Rope Trick is a god-awful weird spell to describe and conceptualize) and mechanic (they had to spend resources, and it allowed the 15-minute adventuring day).

And there goes a strange happening: in the next campaign (the Kingmaker AP I'm DMing) we entered a strange mutual, silent agreement. Although 2 characters are casters (enchanter wizard and oracle), the whole of the campaign is VERY low-magic. I've never changed any rules or give any warnings whatsoever, but they refrained from this kind of spells and in turn I try to be fair with them. It's been working out quite alright.

Scarab Sages

ShadowcatX wrote:

Personally, I'd be more inclined to send a rogue, steal the book back, and leave a dagger on their pillow with a note to the effect of:

"You owe me your life. I'll call this due when it suits me. Until then, leave my book and I in peace. You won't get another warning."

Simply this and nothing more.

+1!


KaeYoss wrote:
Steel from a guy

That's supposed to be steal, of course.


Fergie wrote:

Getting murdered in your sleep isn't an epic way to die, it is a very frustrating death.

[...]

One more thing, the DC to notice someone while you are sleeping is probably out of the range of most characters, and surviving a coup de grace generally requires rolling a 20. Considering the odds involved, ganking someone in their sleep is pretty much guaranteed death.

Of course it sucks. But so does being run over by a car after lying down on the highway for fun. In other words: It really sucks, but you only have yourself to blame.

Generally, I could see an unspoken agreement that inns are off limits and have in-game explanations for it. Maybe the assassin's guild this this rule where they don't shine a guy in someone else's establishment. Or breaking into the inn means extra effort, the assassin will want to be paid extra if the client insists of an inn-side job (hee hee hee), or otherwise just wait for a better opportunity.

But if you don't keep a watch when you're out adventuring and sleep in the wild or a dungeon, you practically ask to be shined.

Plus, this isn't generally, either: They have a known enemy they stole something from and who's really pissed at them and who has already made several attempts to get his stuff back. You just don't let your guard down in such situations. Just assuming that nothing will happen you in your room in the inn even though you have an enemy is a sure-fire way to be taken down.

And concerning "fairness". It might not be too fair to kill someone in their sleep, but is it fair to just ignore dangers and assume the GM will keep the kid gloves on, or maybe put him on a guild trip if he teaches you a lesson in carelessness?

Opportunity makes a thief.


KaeYoss wrote:
Fergie wrote:

Getting murdered in your sleep isn't an epic way to die, it is a very frustrating death.

[...]

One more thing, the DC to notice someone while you are sleeping is probably out of the range of most characters, and surviving a coup de grace generally requires rolling a 20. Considering the odds involved, ganking someone in their sleep is pretty much guaranteed death.

Of course it sucks. But so does being run over by a car after lying down on the highway for fun. In other words: It really sucks, but you only have yourself to blame.

Generally, I could see an unspoken agreement that inns are off limits and have in-game explanations for it. Maybe the assassin's guild this this rule where they don't shine a guy in someone else's establishment. Or breaking into the inn means extra effort, the assassin will want to be paid extra if the client insists of an inn-side job (hee hee hee), or otherwise just wait for a better opportunity.

But if you don't keep a watch when you're out adventuring and sleep in the wild or a dungeon, you practically ask to be shined.

Plus, this isn't generally, either: They have a known enemy they stole something from and who's really pissed at them and who has already made several attempts to get his stuff back. You just don't let your guard down in such situations. Just assuming that nothing will happen you in your room in the inn even though you have an enemy is a sure-fire way to be taken down.

And concerning "fairness". It might not be too fair to kill someone in their sleep, but is it fair to just ignore dangers and assume the GM will keep the kid gloves on, or maybe put him on a guild trip if he teaches you a lesson in carelessness?

Opportunity makes a thief.

Lying in the highway is not a useful analogy. The point here is that the GM wants to balance consequences against abuse of his power, since he has absolute power over the PCs. And opportunity frequently doesn't make a thief. I'm sure everyone has done something stupid like left a wallet in plain view on his car seat or forgotten it on a table in a restaurant, only to find it later exactly where he left it, or to get it back later from someone decent. Most people go unvictimized most of the time, even if they are not being sensible. It's not your job as GM to ensure that the universe punishes the PCs every time they do something you think isn't smart. That's neither fun nor believable.


Trinam wrote:
So did I ever tell you about the time my PCs pissed off a rich bureaucrat and ended up with a horse's head in their bed, specifically one of their horses?

Bonus points if it was someone's animal companion or bonded mount!

But people should read the Vlad Taltos books. They take place in a highly magical world, where resurrection is relatively cheap and quite common.

In that world there are "warning assassinations." That's where the assassin kills the guy but makes sure it isn't permanent (some wounds like destruction of the brain will make resurrection impossible, and there's also magic that will prevent it) and put his body somewhere where it'll be found. His family or people or whatever will then resurrect him - which isn't a sure thing, by the way, and when they can take him back, he'll know that there's someone who is displeased with him or his actions. This guy has resources to kill you and he doesn't really care if it turns out to be a permanent kill after all.

People who receive that warning usually back off.

The second kind of assassination is the one that sticks - i.e. you kill him in a way that will prevent his resurrection, or use magic to keep him down. The guy will go through the Gates of the Dead and be reincarnated, but for all intents and purposes, he's out of the picture.

And then there's the Morganti assassination. That's the most expensive, and when you ask an assassin to make it Morganti, you'll always have to tell him why you feel this way, and he has to buy your reason. That's because this kind of assassination is carried out with a Morganti weapon. Those destroy souls. The sucker is then dead forever. No re-incarnation because no soul.

Even people who make a living out of killing others will not do this without good reason. Plus, there's the whole thing about the Empire not liking incidents like that one bit. If you kill someone with a Morganti weapon, the Empire will be really enthusiastic about finding you. They'll throw their usual rules (no violating people's minds on a hunch, no torture, etc.) when finding such killers, and when they get him, they'll execute him with a Morganti weapon. Plus, those weapons are ancient artefacts from an old and mysterious race (and we're talking about an empire that has been around for about 250000 years, with people that can easily live 2000-3000 years, so they mean it when they say ancient), and as such not exactly common. And sorcerers can track them. So the assassin has to jump through hoops to not only pull off the job, but also do it without being caught.


Does the party realize that they have stolen something so valuable to warrant an assassin to be hired? If so, then I'd say go ahead. Sleeping characters are helpless as per raw. This can encourage the pc's to play smarter. There is a difference between stacking the odds and having consequences for actions.

What I would recommend avoiding is going overboard by possibly tpking the party.


EWHM wrote:
Normally sleeping doesn't entitle you to make a CdG attack

Of course it does. You're fricking asleep. The guy can just stand there and perfectly line up his attack. A little kid could kill you in your sleep (provided it's a psychopath kid with a knife - have nice dreams, everyone!)

The moment you notice the attacker is when he buries that blade in your neck.

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