Swordsmasher's page

Now, if by the time new DND is released, Paizo has released a couple big books of PrCs that allow our group to make Fighter 6/Warden of the Apocalypse 10/GodNuke 10 type characters, then maybe our eyes will wander, but until then, I think our group feels safe and secure with Pathfinder.

Warden Of The Apocalypse actually sounds like a cool class name.

Sadly, my experience with a GodNuke came when I turned my campaign over to my friend and his PC became a DMPC that basically did everything. After a few sessions of that, I brought in the cliched 'Dream Sequence' brought about by a Dragonorb (Dragonlance fans unite!) trying to win freedom.

P.H. Dungeon wrote:

Their goal seems to be to allow the guy who doesn't want a lot of extra bells and whistles to play at the same table with a guy running a more complex character and still have them balanced (maybe kind of like an essentials vs non essentials 4E character).

It sounds nice enough, but I have a lot of difficulty imagining how this game would actually look in play. I'm looking forward to seeing how they attempt to pull it off.

I can't help but think of the expression, "If you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one." If fear with this new version of the game that is what might happen. At least with 4E they had the guts to design as a system that is much different than the previous one. Sure a lot of people hate it, but the people that do like seem to like it a lot.

I think it's possible IF one player is fine knowing that he'll be simple and not flashy (if that's their thing) yet can still contribute. If players are looking for that simplicity, it stands to reason that they're not looking to be super complex or feel compelled to use all sorts of bloated rules like Feats, Powers, Skills and just enjoy the story with their small amount of options.

Where I see this being the BIGGEST problem is for DMs and having to cope with varying players of varying options with varying outcomes and trying to remain within the "mean" of those options. These alternative options are easy enought to incorporate with published adventures, yet not entirely true with homebrew ones. Imagine this: The PCs come up to a locked door. They'll be a small side note saying~ "If the players have skills, they can use Open Lock/Thivery. If they don't, and you have X race, they can use this feature. If they don't have skills or that race, then they can use X-spell found in page Y of the PHB. If they lack all of these aspects, put a Monster of level X in front of the door as guardian and make them solve this riddle with no mechanical requirement..." WTF is that? And how does a DM go...

I don't think a competent GM will have much trouble with this.

When I was stationed in Germany I ran an ongoing game with several people from my unit (some who outranked me, others whom i outranked). The campaign was written for AD&D 2E, but we had some old 1E and OD&D players that wanted to play their way, and i had some skills and powers folks.

So when it came down to it, some of the guys rolled their d20 and added some numbers to it, while others rolled and tried to get less than the relevant ability score.

In the end, it was ultimately up to the DM to adjudicate action and determine results, and possibly convert rulings.

If I had to guess, I would say Yes. Probably some laughter at first, and then the feeling of elation, and then possibly some curiosity as to what it might be like. I am betting they are just as excited as we are to see what comes next.

here's my ranger Homebrew.

Swordsmasher's Ranger

I reworked a bunch of stuff, got rid of spells, added more combat feats and changed them around some.

Also, I took Jump out of Acrobatics, and Added it, Climb, and Swim to Athletics.

Some of the feats in the combat style feats list are also homebrew, but basically (not complete writeups):

Rapid Strike: works like rapid shot but with a melee weapon.
Flurry Strike: as a standard action you can make an attack with your main and off-hand weapon.
Combat Archery, Combat Rifleman: Allow the user to shoot at a target without provoking an attack of opportunity.

and I wrapped Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot into one feat, which I called Precise Shot.

here's a preview

Rifleman: If the Ranger selects rifleman weapon style, he gains proficiency with two-handed firearms and begins play with a battered blunderbuss or musket, and only he knows how to use it properly. All other creatures treat his gun as if it had the broken condition. If the weapon already has the broken condition, it does not work at all for anyone else trying to use it. This starting weapon can only be sold for scrap (it's worth 4d10 gold when sold).
The ranger can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: Amateur Gunslinger, Deadly Aim, Focused Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload, and Weapon Focus. At 6th level, he adds Combat Rifleman and Improved Precise Shot to the list. At 9th level he adds Disengaging Shot and Pinpoint Targeting.

Hunter (Ex): A number of times per day equal to the Ranger's Wisdom modifier, the ranger can name a creature as a Favored Enemy (see the Ranger Favored Enemies table). Naming a creature as a favored enemy requires a swift action. The ranger gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks against his favored enemies. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against them. A ranger may make Knowledge skill checks untrained when attempting to identify these creatures. If the ranger chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must also choose an associated subtype (such as elves for Humanoids, or fire for outsiders). (Note that there are other types of humanoid to choose from—those called out specifically on the table below are merely the most common.) If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the ranger's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher.

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Enjoy!!!

here's some preview stuff

Necromancy Arcane School
The dread and feared necromancer commands undead and uses the foul power of unlife against his enemies.
Undead Familiar (Su): Select an undead creature whose total hit dice is no more than twice your wizard level. That undead creature is now your familiar (See Familiar's, above). This undead familiar replaces any other familiar you may have had, and you do not suffer any negative consequences for losing your other familiar. If you selected the Bonded Item feature, your wizard level is treated as being four levels lower for the purpose of your Undead Familiar's statistics and abilities. This undead familiar grants you the ability to be seen as an undead creature by other undead creatures.

Universal Arcane School
Wizards who do not specialize (known as as universalists) have the most diversity of all arcane spellcasters.
Arcane Versatility (Su): As a standard action, you can sacrifice a prepared spell to prepare another spell in its place. The wizard must have the spell in his spellbook in order to prepare it this way.
Spell Recall (Su): When preparing spells, you may select a number of prepared spells equal to your Intelligence modifier. At any point between this time and the next time you prepare spells, if that spell has been cast, you may recall that spell to memory as a swift action. At 5th level, and every five wizard levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th), you may select an additional prepared spell.
Metamagic Mastery (Su): You can add your Intelligence modifier to your Constitution modifier to determine the number of times you can activate a metamagic feat beyond the first each day.

Here's the wizard I am going to be using in my campaign. I fiddled with a lot of stuff, including adding in some of the Item familiar stuff from the Unearthed Arcana, with some tweakage.

also, just so you know, in my campaign Metamagic feats work on a per day basis. Each feat allows itself to be used once per day when the caster is casting the spell (casting time is not increased unless the feat specifically says so). The caster can also activate his metamagic feats an additional number of times each day equal to his Constitution modifier. So, if Gandalf Jr. Has a Con of 13+, and two metamagic feats, he could use each of his metamagic feats once per day, and then activiate one of them one more time each day.

I changed the powers some of the familiars grant.
I changed many of the granted powers of the specialist schools.
I also changed the spells per day column for some of the higher level spells s it fit with the rest of the pattern for spell advancement.

Here is the Link to my wizard.

The Wizard

I am a Low magic guy. My campaigns are mostly Sword and Sorcery.

Middle Earth: Yeah, but those 10 wizards were more angelic beings than actual wizards. They were calld Istari I believe. I am not googling all the spelling terms because I am short on time.

Tolkein's elves were almost as powerful as the wizards, and way more powerful than your typical Pathfinder elf.

And most of those weapons they discovered were old, many dating back to the second age, or even older, to the wars against Melkor and Morgoth and all that.

But we could debate this to death (see Gandalf Was Only a 5th Level Magic-User).

If you are running a high magic campaign, and that is your style of play, and it is stated that most people use magic in some way (Eberron as an example) then by all means allow something along those lines.

I personally feel that magic item creation should stay in the hands of those capable of wielding magic, or at least your crafter should have a magic-user nearby to enchant it.

A good example of this would be the Dragonslayer movie from the 80's.

However, I can see that someone with enough ranks in Knowledge (Arcana), Use Magic Device, or some other similar skill, could also be allowed to craft magical items in some way without actually being a spell caster. Again, depends on your style of play.

I personally never agreed that being a Master Craftsman could suddenly allow you to make magical items.

There are very few examples of it in fiction (even Theros Ironfeld had help from the silver arm and from Dragons).

And I honestly think they could have fixed their own crafting rules via this feat. ie the amount of work it takes to complete the item is in gp per day instead of per week, or something along those lines.

Then make another feat called Magical Artisan or something, which allows you to do what this version of Master Craftsman does.

I honestly don't like either version of the feat, so I am mostly an unfair person to offer advice on this.

I will say however, DO NOT BE AFRAID TO EXPERIMENT!!! Try the rules out for a bit, and if you like them, use them. If you don't like them, toss them.

And I would efinitely leave in the monkey hat requirement, if only to watch the pc's scramble for a monkey! :)

Other issues with DR in armour are those associated with critters with small/tiny etc weapons that can't do enough damage to overcome the DR but whose main ability is the added damage/ability that comes with it.

For example Sneak attacking tiny creatures, or low damage undead with ability damage/drain.

It'll mess with the CR of a number of critters.

However, I still like the idea [Unearth Arcana].

These are some of the very issues we ran into with the rules as printed in Ultimate Combat.

I think the idea of a defense bonus is great for low magic campaigns, and it's something I've even considered trying myself. I'm not sure how much I like the idea of mixing AC and DR together, though. I think if you're going to use DR to replace AC, you need to go all the way. Otherwise, you're not fixing anything. You're just adding an extra level of book keeping to the game.

I did that, via the Ultimate Combat rules. No fun at all. It makes your attack roll nearly meaningless, and puts all the importance on the damage roll. I wrote about my experiences in this thread.

I also think that DR 2/- really isn't worth it at higher levels. This is particularly true when you consider that many monsters can drop players from full hit points to unconscious in one round if they succeed on all of their attack rolls. Given that you've reduced the armor bonus of most of the standard armor, I think it's going to make for a pretty deadly game.

I never had this when I ran similar versions in 3e and 3.5. I used to think that low DR was meaningless at higher levels as well, but when it comes right down to it, with HP, all it takes is 1, and my player's old half-Orc barbarian proved that time and time again.

That said, I think you're definitely on to something, and I'd like to know how it works out in your own games.

so far, so good. I am thinking about working an increase to DR into the Fighter's Armor Training ability, and maybe a few feats.

Also, if any player really wants to have the armor provide full DR, I will probably let him. However, when we decided to use the UC armor as DR rules, my player's converted Warforged fighter suddenly had a DR of 14/-.

I got me one of them Google Sites linked from d20pfsrd, trying it out now.

I uploaded a few of them handy pdf's that contain some of the house rules I am using. Some I made up, some I collected from the d20srd.

I use them in conjunction with each other. so, hopefully the links and downloads work!

Class Defense Bonuses

Armor As DR Spiced Up

lol

4e has Bloodied.

I gots Bloody. :)

In my original document i did a long write up about the 1/2 hp, and then just decided to make a new condition called Bloody. ;)

For those NOT in the know, Bloody: Your character's current hit point total is at 1/2 or less his maximum amount.

heh heh ;)

Just steal it all from GURPS: weapons and armor.

lol

From the hours i spent playing GURPS back in the day, I still see hex maps flashing before my eyes as I am driving down the road! :)

none of my players have a Strength score over 10. Average melee damage is 1d6-1. Average ranged damage is 1d8.

@Fozbek: I am more concerned with the gimping of the importance of the attack roll in favor of the damage roll. With the defense score system as written, characters are going to be hitting at least 90% of the time. There are a lot of feats, spells, and abilities that increase the attack roll, but there is not as much to increase the damage output that is directly under the control of the player (skills, feats, powers, etc), except maybe magic spells. One such feat requires several levels in Fighter, so, in my opinion, it kind of shoehorns you into either having a big weapon with lots of strength, or not being able to do much damage at all. Or play a spellcaster.

If there were more options out there to increase damage rolls, the system would be a little better as written.

I wrote up my own class defense bonus rules, and snagged the armor as dr rules from Unearthed Arcana, and so far so good. I will post them sometime, as soon as i get my Google Sites working.

Here's how I am running the half-orc as of right now.

+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom or Charisma, -2 Intelligence: Half-Orc's are strong, and can be very wise and have strong personalities, but they tend to be unlearned.

Medium: Half-Orc's are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Normal Speed: Half-Orc's have a base speed of 30 feet.

Darkvision: Half-Orc's can see in the dark up to 60 feet.

Intimidating: Half-Orc's get a +2 bonus to intimidate checks due to their fearsome nature.

Orc Blood: Half-Orc's count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.

Half-Orc Ferocity: When the half-orc gains the Bloody condition (obviously 1/2 max hp or less), he gets a +1 bonus to attack rolls.

Powerful Blows: Whenever the half-orc deals damage with a melee attack, he adds 1 ½ times his Strength modifier to the damage (he adds twice his strength modifier when attacking with a two-handed weapon).

Languages: Half-orcs begin play speaking Common and Orc. Half-orcs with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Abyssal, Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, and Goblin.

When i was in the military (waaaay back in the 90's, lol) I got a chance to wear some armor gear, and we messed around with bean bag shotguns, just to see how much protection the flack vests gave you. And I tell you what, even with the flack vest, it still HURT. and it could knock you down.

so, maybe, a better system would be half dr half non-lethal damage.

But honestly, I wouldn't mind using the standard armor bonus system a long with an armorless defense bonus system that was decent. I can see the armor bonus as a "To Hurt mechanism" and not a "To Hit mechanism".

And, to hearken back to the old days, perhaps the armor as DR system shouldn't be DR/Armor, but certain types of weapons could bypass it. Chain shirt could be DR 4/piercing, and plate armor could be DR 9/bludgeoning.

just a few thoughts.

good luck, can't wait. and maybe an open call for freelancers and or layouters? or even $10.00 for a pdf of text?

I am considering creating an adventure that starts the players out in the arena so I plan on utilizing the performace stuff. Since this was written after the core I am looking through it to perhaps add some performance flare to previous feats or see how things will match up.

I was thinking of opening up the called shot rules to anyone that takes weapon finesse, to offset the fact that in general a dex melee fighter does not seem to have the damage output of a str one. I will probably play test this concept in a few one-shots first though.

I did just that! ala Spartacus, my players began as criminals in the arena. Things were going bad for them performance wise, until one of them made a called shot the "Vitals" area of the gladiator, and basically after kicking him in the jimmies, the fight turned around, and the enemy gladiator begged for mercy.

First, I want to say How much i love Pathfinder and how much I love UC. Good work.

Now.

I have always been looking for a good Armor as DR system. What follows is my thoughts and feelings after several sessions using the armor as DR rule printed in UC.

-I am the gamemaster.

-The Defense Score rule needs work. Honestly, my players and the bad guys were getting hit left and right. Without the armor as DR they'd be D-E-D! After the first session, I wrote some modified Class Defense Bonus rules culled from Unearthed Arcana, and that seemed to work ok.

-As written, the characters base attack bonus and all feats, abilities, etc. that increase the attack bonus are meaningless, due to the fact that the actual attack roll is nearly meaningless, unless the opponent has dodge and deflection style bonuses out the wazoo.

-What does become important is the damage roll. The pc has only a few options when it comes to increasing his damage roll, and the Armor as DR rules as printed almost railroads the weapon wielding pc's into getting bigger and badder weapons.

-And, unless I am doing something wrong, as soon as everyone has magical weapons, the system no longer works anyway, unless the armor is Adamantine. So, most everyone will be walking around with low AC's in armor that offers 0 protection against anyone equal to or slightly higher than themselves in power.

-During the game, the players were getting frustrated because they were rolling well on the attack roll (meaningless as the bad guy had a defense of 11, it was a 1st level adventure) and they couldn't get past his DR. Ultimately, they ended up pulling a Goku vs. Raditz vs. Piccolo, where the two strongest in the group would try and hold the enemy down while they took turns attacking him, because being pinned and held bypasses the armor as DR.

-And, strangely enough, at the end of the latest adventure, the pc's made level 3, two of them went and took a level of sorcerer and picked the Arcane Strike feat.

In conclusion, I really think there is a need for an armor as DR system, especially if you are using Firearms in your campaign, as I am, but I feel that this system is flawed, and either needs more work, or needs to be redone. And there needs to be a defense bonus system added to increase the AC/Defense naturally as one levels ie the base Attack Bonus. And the critical defense roll is confusing until you get the math down.

What are some of your experiences?

I am using the Wounds/Vigor as well. it seems to work well for the pc's, however, it makes combat last longer when applied to monsters and NPC's, so i am thinking about keeping them with just normal hp.

We are using the Armor as DR system, and I will tell you, i don't like it the way it is printed. Players score hits way to easily, and end up dealing very little to no damage at all. I pulled out and modified the old Class Defense Bonus system Unearthed Arcana and have been playing with that.

But as written, it makes the player's base attack bonus and all derivatives nearly meaningless, unless the opponent has a shield and a ton of deflection and dodge bonuses, etc.

what it does do is make the damage rolls more important than the attack roll, and the player has very little he can do about that, except get a bigger or better weapon.

and the critical saves are REALLY confusing until you get the math down.

I play a lot of wizards, and I always pick Mage Armor at creation. And I make scrolls of mage armor as soon as I can. That, and shield.

I have never played a straight sorcerer, as I generally mutliclass with fighter, so Mage Armor was usually one of my initial spell choices anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgvxu8QY01s

here's a link.

Whether or not you think it is bad, it HAD TO BE DONE!

Have Gun Will Travel featured a man called Paladin who traveled around the old west and blasted bad guys, sometimes fr profit ;)

if you notice several of the feats and abilities pay homage to this popular and classic show, which many of you should watch, because it was definitely groundbreaking for its time.

How often did you hear a character on tv from that time frame say things like "I don't want to kill you, but i will kill you, and your brother, and anyone else that stands in my way."

classic, man, classic.

And I LOVE the holy gun.

That would mean my player's "living construct subtype" character has a DR of 14/-.

1. Does Adamantine armor still grant DR 3/-?
1A. If so, does it stack with the DR/Armor granted by the armor?

2. Is there a minimum damage rule somewhere?

3. Can I also assume that spells that grant AC (such as Mage Armor, etc.) grants DR/Armor when cast by the spellcaster?

ok, so the DR 3/- provided by Adamantine in the normal system is not granted in the armor as DR system?

I always picture warforged as being custom built to be whatever class they're going to be. I imagine a warforged bard who uses wind instruments as having the required number of smaller, more dexterous fingers, and some kind of built in mechanism that blows out steam for him to play his instrument with. That or maybe mechanical lungs that he only uses to play the flute or whatever.

I kind of want to try a warforged druid who turns into robot versions of animals sometime.

I like this idea.

But you'd think if each warforged were custom built for their class, they would get an ability bonus that would favor members of that class.

so that would lead me to think +2 to any one ability score.

or +2 to Str, Dex, or Con; -2 Wis or Cha
or
+2 to one Int, Wis, or Cha; -2 Dex or Con.

player's choice at creation.

could also represent the component nature of the warforged.

I modified the system a bit.

what I do is I add the Max dex of the armor to the armor check penalty, and if the result is a negative number, I apply the result as a penalty to the defense bonus granted. if the result is a positive number, no bonus or penalty is subtracted.

Thus, if Joe wants to wear full plate, he would add max dex of +1 to armor check penalty -6, resulting in a -5 penalty to his defense bonus.

If joe wanted to wear a Mithral Breastplate, his max dex would be +5, and armor check penalty would be +0, so he wouldn't get a penalty to the listed defense bonus.

I'm also considering some feats, for example:

Armored Combatant (Combat)
Benefit: When wearing a armor, you may halve the penalty the armor incurs to your defense bonus.

so, in the above example, if Joe wanted to wear full plate, he would take 5, and divide by 2, result 2.5, and rounding down, gives us a -2 penalty to the defense bonus.

and possibly

Improved Armored Combatant
Prerequisite: Armored Combatant, Base Attack Bonus +6
Benefit: When wearing armor, you no longer suffer a penalty to your defense bonus.

just a few thoughts.

I am thinking about altering Uncanny Cognizance.
i was thinking at 9th, making all lies told to MY aristocrat get a -10 penalty per the Bluff skill rules, and at some point at a higher level (thinking 18th or in that area) have all Bluff checks get a -20 per the Bluff skill rules. I would apply the same penalties to Intimidate checks made against the character.

I run native american like people in my campaign.
I am part native american, having some Awesasne Mohawk blood in me.

anyway, in my campaign world, they are nomadic wanderers, and their religious beliefs consist of the Spirits. The spirits are associated with ALL domains, and individual clerics can align with a single spirit or all spirits.

clerics can select any two domains at creation.

if a cleric players decides to align with a single spirit, i usually ask him to come up with some kind of ideal, such as Strength, or Weather, or whatever (such as a divine portfolio), and usually expect him to select domains that kind of go with the theme of the spirit.

For example, let's say that Bill want to play A cleric, and worship the Bear spirit. I'd associate Bear with at least the Animal, Healing, Protection, and Strength.

for more info, check out this site

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/na-totems.html

and for some good music, check out the Bear Creek singers on youtube.

one of the npc's right now in my campaign is a native american-type barbarian scalp hunter, looking to rescue his nephew from slavers.

for more info on scalping, check out this site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalping

have fun!

I came up with this after reading through Ultimate Combat (AWESOMENESS INCARNATE!) and not finding an official one.

I loved the gunslinger, and the gun rules, and i love the armor as DR rules, however, i do think that unarmored warriors should get a treatment as well (not MONK style).

this system was designed to be used in conjunction with the Defense variant and the Armor as DR variant in Ultimate Combat. It is based on a character's armor proficiences. The defense bonus granted is effective against touch attacks. The defense bonus is based on character level and armor proficiencies, so it doesn't matter what classes you have when determining your defense bonus.

Character Level: 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/12/14/14/15/16/17/18/19/20

No Armor Prof: +0/+0/+1/+1/+1/+2/+2/+2/+3/+3/+3/+4/+4/+4/+5/+5/+5/+6/+6/+6

Light Armor: +1/+1/+2/+2/+2/+3/+3/+3/+4/+4/+4/+5/+5/+5/+6/+6/+6/+7/+7/+7

Light,Medium:+2/+2/+3/+3/+3/+4/+4/+4/+5/+5/+5/+6/+6/+6/+7/+7/+7/+8/+8/+8

Lgt,Med,Hvy: +3/+3/+4/+4/+4/+5/+5/+5/+6/+6/+6/+7/+7/+7/+8/+8/+8/+9/+9/+9

does anybody else feel this way, or know of a good system for pathfinder? i do own the old unearthed arcana, but i was never really fond of that system.

in my modified modern game, i ported in some mutants and masterminds, and the defenses there are totally skill based.

any one?

Swordsmasher wrote:

what you really want to avoid is an us vs them mentality. if you tell your sleeping player to roll a perception check at -10, and he fails, and then say , ok, roll a save, and then he fails, and you say ok, you died. gubnock the assassin just took you out for not returning the book, you're going to lose 99.9% of your GM Street Cred with your group.

that's a fact.

That's not a fact. That's your opinion. A possibility, sure, but not a fait accompli.

A different possibility is that if you keep treating the players like raw eggs ("I won't do this because it might be considered unfair by some"), they will pick up on it and walk all over you.

I've seen that happen a lot more often than I've seen stern but reasonable lessons turn the GM into a bad guy.

Chances are the players will be able to get the victim raised from the dead. That will set them back a couple thou, and it's likely the victim will feel like crap for a while until the negative levels are taken care of, but unless those players are brain dead, they will realise that they don't always get to choose their battlefields, and be better prepared next time.

if i ever played in a game where that happened, the GM would get a very serious talking to, if not called a very bad name, and I would never play in his game again, and that is a fact.

i don't play or run these games to kill my players, and to me having a player killed in his sleep ruins everything, unless it is part of a planned adventure and you tell the player beforehand.

My group doesn't use Raise Dead spells. We've been gaming together for over 13 years now, through various editions, and they have never used raise dead spells.

I also built fair encounters in which the pc has some chance of scraping by, and Not putting everything on the whim of a die roll. As i already said, if i were to try and do this, the oc would be in a situation where there would be a chance at survival.

I have ganked pc's before with assassins. but they were never asleep, and always had some kind of clue beforehand that something was going on.

my games tend to be cinematic in scope, we use action points, and the like, and in most movies there is usually a bit of tension before something happens. even in that horrid scene from deadwood, the dog barked a split second before IT happened, so if HE was smarter, he would have Ducked instead of sat there looking stupid.

GM's that kill their pc's like this are not good gm's, in my opinion. the game is about fun, and though people can say what goes around comes around, having paranoid players is never good. I as a GM am there to provide and have fun, and tell a story in a fantasical world, not gank pc's in their sleep. god, that reminds me of the old MUD days.

according to the old core rulebook that was named for the dude that ran the game, "aristocrats are usually educated and wealthy individuals born into high position. Aristocrats are the wealthy or politically influential people in the world".

i feel my class does that quite well. i am more interested in the actual mechanics of the class instead of arguing semantics over the name.

i did NOT build my aristocrat to be strictly a Noble. If i wanted it to be strictly a member of the noble class, I would have made the class a Noble, and given it more noble-ey abilities like some of the ones that were mentioned above.

class design means sometimes you have to be broad in your overall design. My aristocrat does this. If you want to be a noble, you can. If you want to be a wealthy merchant, you can.

my main reasoning for NOT making it a noble was the fact that a Wizard can be a noble without a level in a noble class, as can any other class, except for maybe a commoner (yeah, bad joke Insert Princess Bride Pun here). And many of the Noble class write ups are so broad to cover this aspect that i feel they were lacking in overall choosability. I chose to focus on the core aspect of what an aristocrat really does or is, according to the definition in that old gaming book on my shelf.

Swordsmasher wrote:

here's something I cooked up while listening to Alestorm and drinking Rum.

YAR!

Yar, captain deathbeard! Perhaps, together we can hoist our Black Sails At Midnight, and go Back Through Time and face Death Before The Mast while bearing witness to the Death Cry Of The Terrorsquid, and drink some of that Famous Ol' Spiced at the Sunk'n Norwegian! But only if ye don't get Keelhauled or Shipwrecked before ye go Scraping the Barrell once more, ha haa!

that was a rule we came up with ourselves, but if it was later in a book somewhere, great minds think alike! :)

yeah, d6 is awesome in its versatility. I especially also liked the starship combat rules. i still haven't found anything i like as much as those old d6 star wars rules.

now i am seriously thinking about running d6 again. I think my kids would get a kick out of it, and it is simple enough i think for my 5 year old (he runs marvel ultimate alliance on his pc, and can even program his own WoW macros as long as I write the emote on paper for him, lol) and my 9 year old to play, and then i could let my 3 year old roll dice for me just like when we play Pathfinder ( i usually let him LARP a bit when we play, until the combat starts, then he turnsd into the Hulk and smashes the enemies, lol).

Oh man, i so want to run a tramp ship again. Why, oh why did i sell my Platt's guides? lament, lament, and oh death! lol

what you really want to avoid is an us vs them mentality. if you tell your sleeping player to roll a perception check at -10, and he fails, and then say , ok, roll a save, and then he fails, and you say ok, you died. gubnock the assassin just took you out for not returning the book, you're going to lose 99.9% of your GM Street Cred with your group.

that's a fact.

If you have any respect for your players as individuals, you will warn them somehow.

If you ever read any Robert E. Howard books, in the Novel, The "Hour Of The Dragon", King Conan sends the vile Wizard Xaltotun a letter telling him he is coming for him.

You could do that as well. have the NPC send him a letter, or even a personal messenger, "If I don't get my book back, there will be dire repercussions, as Gubnock is coming for you."

and of course a very easy Knowledge check reveals that Gubock is a vile assassin that has never failed, never been caught, and always gets his man.

and then send the stray mangy dog to the pc. :)

You and I disagree on our views of Aristocrats. Aristocrats, IMHO, aren't just rich people. They are often old money and have certain social obligations which seperate them from the unwashed masses. This is where the concept of being "classy" comes from.

i agree with you on this. But insofar as a game is concerned, i feel that should be up to the player as a backstory, with maybe some archetype elements added in.

I could easily see a "Noble Scion" archetype, with my aristocrat getting many of the things you have said. The 'shame code' could easily replace the Passion ability, and grant some kind of ability based on the noble's behavior, or punish him. the inheritance could also easily be added in to the noble scion archetype.

for my purposes though, i wanted my core Aristocrat to be able fill a few different niches, from a Noble Scion to a slimy Rich merchant to a cocky arrogant rich young punk with more gold than brains.

many of the core classes are just generic enough to allow individual players the ability to customize the way they see their character within the confines of the class abilities itself.

Swordsmasher wrote:

with opend6, do you still face the bucket of dice syndrome?

Basically it went:

WEG Star Wars D6 -> WEG D6 Space/Adventure/Fantasy -> Open D6

So, yes, if you didn't like the prospect of picking up 12D then you'll face the same dislike with Open D6.

Me personally, I loved bucket o' dice rolling with a wild die. It had some scaling issues, but I just loved the sound of all those dice hitting the table.

Our solution to the bucket of dice was this:

Anytime you had a skill over 10d, you could subtract 10d from the dice pool, and take the average for the 10d (35), adding modifiers after the averaging. When rolling the wild die, if it came up 5 or 6, you add 10 to the average roll, and then keep rolling as normal. if the wild die came up another 6, you added another 10 to the average, up to the maximum of 60.

and I LOVED the Han Solo Corporate Sector sourcebook. Best fast draw rules i've ever seen.

I have been gaming for over half my life (i am approaching my fat-beard stage of development, early 30's and all that). I've run dozens of different games across the board, and read hundreds of gaming manuals.

Ultimate Combat is one of the BEST gaming manuals I have ever read.

I loved 99% of the book.

The only issue i had with the book was the absence of an armorless combat rule. The armorless combat option could be used in conjunction with the armor as DR rules, for those characters or campaigns that do not use armor.

i have seen many different systems used in different ways through the d20 systems, but i would like to see one that is viable for the Pathfinder game.

and coming this week to a Pathfinder game near you, Samurai Jack-tion!

I'd warn the pc somehow. overhear something big going down tonight while he is in a tavern, or no-name npc shows up to warn the pc (can be written in to a bigger story arc as far as the book is concerned) or even an npc that works for the big-boss will warn the pc of the assassin for a price.

or, have the first assassination attempt fail. ie bob orders some food at the tavern, and the new waitress, Jill, after having flirted with the pc a little, gets his order wrong and gives it to some other dude. then have the other dude die from poison. when the pc realized the poison was meant for him, he will be on his guard a little more, and knows something is up.

you could also have some mangy stray dog start following the pc around, and insist on sleeping outisde the pc's door everynight, and have the dog bark at EVRYTHING that moves. i'm talkig a leaf falls from a tree, dog barks. fly whizzes by, dog barks. have the pc not get any sleep, and start getting annoyed. on the night the assassin is going to show up, either the dog barks its fool head off and finally makes the pc go nuts, or the dog is deadly quiet, because it is scared of the assassin.

it's the little things like that the pc's notice.

Uh, no. I'm just fine with skeletons and goblins in my low-level adventures rather than xyxivorts and snoovitzes, thanks.

oh, come one! Don't be hatin on my snoovitzes!

We now have 2 bestiaries in print and another on the way and tons of creatures in each AP volume. Dear Paizo, use them, extensively. If a Paizo module or AP volume comes across an editors or developers desk and it contains a single monster that exists in the 3.5 SRD it should be immediately replaced with something new from a bestiary or previous AP volume.

Just paging through "Wake of the Watcher" I do see some new monsters, but I also see: a rogue/assassin, many many clerics, ghouls, an octopus, chuuls, spectres, yellow mold, and shambling mounds. Really? with thousands of new monsters in print this volume has an octopus, ghouls, specters, and yellow mold? An octopus?? Come on guys, use the stuff you print. I should never see another ghoul or specter in a Paizo adventure.

lol

you noticed some of that going on as well?

The class needs a _shame_ mechanic such that the Aristocrat is passionate in bringing no shame upon his house (this may include a code of behaviour which the Aristocrat will adhere to just as firmly as a Paladin adheres to LG)

I think that would be better if my Aristocrat was strictly a Noble-esque type, but my Aristocrat is supposed to be modular in the fact it can be Noble-esque, rich playboy-esque, or vile/good corporate-esque.

The Aristocrat in my game right now is an up and coming merchant, and the player uses the rogue to run many of his illicit dealings.

The Aristocrat needs a hereditary item (weapon, staff, whatever) as an option. In fact, the character class needs options for abilities gained at each level.

The hereditary item thing, i could see if the aristocrat was all Noble-ey. But my aristocrat could just buy one. I also originally used Talents at every other level, and I made the aristocrat kinda pick a reason for him being an aristocrat at character creation via a class ability (such as Purchased Nobility or Warrior Heritage) but I didn't like the way it worked. Then i later found out the Freeport Noble had a similar mechanic, and I figured the player could come up with hiw own, and not every flavor needed a crunch.

Automatically immune to bluff should be changed to something like automatic skill focus in Sense Motive.

I thought about this, but as is in my first draft i have already given several skill bonuses out there, including the whole passion ability. What I have been kicking around in my brain is a weaker-ized version of this, in which once the aristocrat makes a successful Sense Motive check against a character, or someone else fails to Intimidate him, he is immune to that character's attempts for 24 hours.

I'd give a cultural/regional package (1 martial or exotic weapon prof and 2 skills determined by cultural/regional background) - so a Dwarven Aristocrat from a house located in mining territory gets a different package from a human house on the planes known for fine horses which will be different from another human house known for it's vineyards which will be different from another elven house known for it's seaborn trade and etc.

I'd give the banner abilities of a Cavalier to the Aristocrat as a leveling option.

the cultural package things is interesting, but i think it would work better for a class that strictly noble-ey. Same for the cavalier banner option. My aristocrat is not pure noble-ey, as I believe that not all aristocrats have to be nobles or member of a noble society. Again, the player running my Aristocrat in the game right now is nowhere near a noble, he's moving towards being a merchant with ties to the black market. He said next level when his Improved Wealth and Power kicks in, he's using the cash to buy a ship and supply a crew, so he might get into pirating or even tramp shipping. we'll see.

I'd make all gear be required to be at least Masterwork (this may be part of the Aristocrat code).

i would leave this up to the player, honestly. I have known enough rich people in my everyday life to see some of them only buy the cheapest stuff that will work for their needs, and i think an aristocrat in the game could be the same way.

or, in fact, the aristocrat could feel that since he has the cash, no need to be a skimper, as there is always going to be more money, only buy the masterwork quality of everything, but again i don't think the flavor here needs a crunch.

though i just got an image of an aristocrat getting picked on by all the other aristocrats for not having the shiny masterwork armor, sword, and shield that they all have, and as a result they won't let the aristocrat join in any of their aristocrat games. :)

thank you so very much for your input. You seem to have a grasp on noble-ey type characters. I would like to see some of your noble-ey stuff as archetypes for other characters classes.

Aristocrats are scornful of attacks from attackers they aren't aware of? That's...weird.

good call, and good find. Thanks, i will have to fix the writing. The ability was intended for the Aristocrat to be aware of the attacker.

Other than the owning stuff class abilities, this seems to step directly on the rogue's toes. A middling-ability fighty sort whose main combat ability is just bringing them up to par with normal fighty sorts, while the main schtick is having a large pool of non-magical problemsolving abilities.

I don't see it that way, and honestly, thus far in my group, our Rogue and Aristocrat are complementing each other nicely. They are only level 6 right now, but so far the Aristocrat player is financing many of the rogues underhanded deeds, lol.

it would be neat to see an updated d6 version of star wars. with opend6, do you still face the bucket of dice syndrome?

here's something I cooked up while listening to Alestorm and drinking Rum. It's an Aristocrat class, and i called it the Aristocrat because honestly i couldn't think of anything better at the time. In my campaign i am using them as heroic only, so only really important npc's get to level in this class.

so here it is. (p.s. It's a Draft 1 format right now, so....)

Aristocrat
Aristocrats are those born into wealth or a high position. Many are content to live these lives of luxury, but still others want more. They turn to adventuring to increase their wealth, business ventures, and political holdings.

Hit die: d8

Class Skills
The aristocrat's class skills (and key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str), and Survival (Wis).

Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier

Base Attack progression: Medium
Good Save: Will
level / Class Features and Such
1st: 1st Passion, Influence, Retainer, Wealth and Power
2nd: Fighting Flair, Scorn -1
3rd: 1st Combat Instruction, Untraceable Funds
4th: Shrewdness, Resist Charms
5th: 2nd Passion, Improved Retainer I
6th: Scorn -2, Holding
7th: Leadership, Improved Wealth and Power
8th: 2nd Combat Instruction
9th: Uncanny Cognizance
10th: 3rd Passion, Scorn -3, Improved Retainer II
11th: Improved Followers
12th: 3rd Combat Instruction
13th: Improved Holding
14th: Scorn -4
15th: 4th Passion, Improved retainer III
16th: Supreme Wealth and Power
17th: 4th Combat Instruction
18th: Scorn -5
19th: 5th Passion
20th: Improved retainer IV, Power Of The Kings

Class Features
The following are class features of the aristocrat.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: An aristocrat is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (except tower shields).

Combat Instruction: An aristocrat gets the best combat instruction that money can buy. At 3rd level the aristocrat may select a favored weapon. The aristocrat gains a bonus combat feat which can only be used while wielding that weapon. At 8th level and every five levels thereafter the aristocrat gains an additional favored weapon and a bonus combat feat which can only be used while wielding a favored weapon.

Fighting Flair (Ex): An aristocrat may use his Charisma modifier instead of his strength modifier on melee attack rolls.

Holding: An aristocrat gains a tiny village, small castle, or medium sized mansion with enough land to support all of the vassals required to run the day to day operations of the type of estate the aristocrat wishes.
At 13th level the Aristocrat may upgrade his holding to a small town, a medium sized castle, or a large mansion.

Improved Followers (Ex): An aristocrat's wealth, power, and influence spread far through his realm, and many beings flock to his banner. He gains double the amount of followers of each level from his Leadership feat.

Influence (Ex): An aristocrat adds half her class level (minimum 1) to Diplomacy checks made to influence the attitudes of non-player characters, and can use Diplomacy to influence a given creature's attitude one additional time in a 24-hour period.

Leadership: An aristocrat has earned enough favor that people flock to him to support his causes or whims and desires. He gains Leadership as a bonus feat.

Power Of The Kings (Ex): An aristocrat's wealth, political power, or business ventures have become so great that he commands many lesser people's lives. He gains five times the normal amount of followers of each level from his Leadership feat. In addition, his holding improves to a small city, a fortified citadel, or a huge mansion. Also, his family's fortunes or business venture's mature fully, and he gains an amount of money equal to 1,000,000 gp's.

Wealth and Power (Ex): An aristocrat is teeming with money, and in most cases that equates to power. Whenever an aristocrat class level is gained, the character gains 1,000 gp's x his aristocrat class level. This includes 1st level.
At 7th level, the aristocrat's family fortunes expand, or his business ventures improved. He now gains 5,000 gp's x his aristocrat level whenever he gains a class level. At 16th level the aristocrat becomes the epitome of wealth and monetary gain. He now gains 10,000 gp's x his aristocrat level whenever he gains a class level.

Passion (Ex): At 1st level the Aristocrat selects a skill. He gets a +2 bonus to all checks made with that skill. At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the aristocrat may select an additional skill. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus to one skill (even the one just selected) increases by +2.

Resist Charms (Ex): An aristocrat gets a +4 bonus to saving throws against enchantment spells and effects.

Retainer: An aristocrat has a loyal follower that aids him in his daily life. The loyal follower is a 1st level non-heroic npc who gains xp and treasure rewards as a cohort, and is treated as a cohort for all intents and purposes. The retainer begins play with no weapons, armor, or equipment. It is up to the aristocrat to equip and arm his retainer. Should the retainer ever die, the aristocrat must pay a sum of money to the retainer's next of kin equal to 100 gp's x the retainer's level. If the aristocrat does not pay this mount, he cannot gain the services of a new retainer. If the aristocrat wishes to gain the services of a new retainer, he must buy out his current retainer's contract for a sum of money equal to 10 gp's x the retainer's level, and then offer a contract to a new retainer for a sum of money equal to 10 gp's x the retainer's level. A retainer is always an npc and can never possess heroic pc class levels.
At 5th level an aristocrat's retainer becomes more powerful, and can possess 1 level of a heroic class. At 10th level, and every five levels thereafter (15th and 20th) an aristocrat's retainer can possess an additional level in a heroic class.

Scorn: Starting at 2nd level, all attacks made against an aristocrat suffer a -1 penalty. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd.

Shrewdness (Ex): An aristocrat knows the value of knowledge, and may use his Intelligence modifier instead of his Wisdom modifier when making Will saving throws.

Uncanny Cognizance (Ex): An aristocrat is proficient in seeing through others plans and true intentions. Any Bluff and Intimidate checks made against him automatically fail. This ability has no effect if the creature attempting the Bluff or Intimidate check has four or more hit dice than the aristocrat.

Untraceable Funds (Ex): An aristocrats political and commercial dealings are now unknown to common folk for the purposes of gather information checks. In addition, the DC of any gather information check made against the aristocrat for the purposes of uncovering any political or commercial information have the DC increased by +5.
--------------------

That's my baby. It's a 1st draft, and in constant revision.

My thoughts:
I am iffy on Wealth and Power. It might need reduction in amount of cash.
if i have any more thoughts, or any playtest notes and/or glitches, i'll post em.

thanks for reading

having played Star Wars rpg's since West End's 1st edition, and on through wotc's various incarnations, I am wondering how they are going to do their RPG.

from what i saw, you guys won every award you were nominated for for the 2011 ennie awards, and i must say it is well deserved. keep up the good work.

congrats!!!!!

I am not looking for a feat or class ability to add this.

What i am looking for is if anyone has actually added the Dex mod as damage to all ranged attacks in much the same way as strength is added to melee attacks, and what their experiences with the rule were like.

I have bruited it about for a while, and I am going to try it in my new campaign, and i was looking for others input.

thanks