What are some things about the Pathfinder rules that you think most people do not know?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

How do you use a helmet to make an attack or combat maneuver check? For example, for using the Hard Headed feat?


Dot.


There are no separate stats for donkey or mule, although you can purchase them and they are mentioned as potential animal companions in a few places.

It's been suggested by Paizo you simply apply the advanced template to a pony if you need stats.


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A small little line in the skills section that might save your characters life.

"If you have 3 or more ranks in Acrobatics, you gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively instead of the usual +2, and a +6 dodge bonus to AC when taking the total defense action instead of the usual +4."


You can only use one Glove of Storing:

Glove of Storing wrote:

Glove of Storing

Price 10,000 gp; Aura moderate transmutation; CL 6th; Weight—

This device is a single leather glove. On command, one item held in the hand wearing the glove disappears. The item can weigh no more than 20 pounds and must be able to be held in one hand. While stored, the item has negligible weight. With a snap of the fingers wearing the glove, the item reappears. A glove can only store one item at a time. Storing or retrieving the item is a free action. The item is shrunk down so small within the palm of the glove that it cannot be seen. Spell durations are not suppressed, but continue to expire. If the glove's effect is suppressed or dispelled, the stored item appears instantly. A glove of storing uses up the wearer's entire hands slot. The wearer may not use another item (even another glove of storing) that also uses the hands slot.


When you're using the Weapon Finesse feat to attack with a weapon while you're also using a shield you apply the shield's armor check penalty to your attack rolls.


dot.

Shadow Lodge

I find myself bringing this one up constantly...

You can't use acrobatics to move past foes if your speed is reduced by armor or encumbrance.

Silver Crusade

ElectricMatthew wrote:

I find myself bringing this one up constantly...

You can't use acrobatics to move past foes if your speed is reduced by armor or encumbrance.

...and conversely, you can use Acrobatics in heavy armour if that armour doesn't reduce your speed, such as a dwarf wearing heavy armour.


Vod Canockers wrote:

You can only use one Glove of Storing:

Glove of Storing wrote:

Glove of Storing

Price 10,000 gp; Aura moderate transmutation; CL 6th; Weight—

This device is a single leather glove. On command, one item held in the hand wearing the glove disappears. The item can weigh no more than 20 pounds and must be able to be held in one hand. While stored, the item has negligible weight. With a snap of the fingers wearing the glove, the item reappears. A glove can only store one item at a time. Storing or retrieving the item is a free action. The item is shrunk down so small within the palm of the glove that it cannot be seen. Spell durations are not suppressed, but continue to expire. If the glove's effect is suppressed or dispelled, the stored item appears instantly. A glove of storing uses up the wearer's entire hands slot. The wearer may not use another item (even another glove of storing) that also uses the hands slot.

Seriously? I had no idea this was a rule in PF. I had several characters in 3.5 who wore a Glove of Storing on each hand, and nothing went crazy. Seems like such a petty rule.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

You may only Craft 1 magic Item per day. This was one we overlooked for almost a year!

K-Ray


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Oh and another one I just recently found out. Clerics can chose to leave a spell slot empty and spend an hour (or 15 mins if less then 25% of spell slots) during any point of the day to fill that slot. Its under Divine casters in the Magic chapter in the core book. LIFE CHANGING, well it was until I just made a crap load of scrolls.

K-Ray


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Kennethray wrote:

Oh and another one I just recently found out. Clerics can chose to leave a spell slot empty and spend an hour (or 15 mins if less then 25% of spell slots) during any point of the day to fill that slot. Its under Divine casters in the Magic chapter in the core book. LIFE CHANGING, well it was until I just made a crap load of scrolls.

K-Ray

All casters that prepare spells can do that.


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That you can take a 5-foot step at any point during a full attack. e.g. middle of a Rapid Shot attack, or a Whirlwind attack...even while Lunging during a Whirlwind attack.

One more:
You can voluntarily fail a saving roll, but you can't voluntarily fail a critical confirmation roll.

The Exchange

Off topic:
Dukai wrote:
In bestiary 2, the dinosaur, compsognathus can be taken as a familiar which grants a +4 initiative and has a poison WAY better than the greensting scorpion. Essentially there is no reason to ever take the scorpion other than for flavor. Compsognathus is better in every way. Maybe this isn't quite what the thread is about, but I found it very interesting and likely something many people will miss.

In defense of Tiny Tim, my greensting, he has better Stealth, darkvision, is lightweight (matters, as I have 7 STR), and can easily fit in my pocket (stays within arm's reach so that I get Alertness).

The Exchange

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Diego Rossi wrote:


We can add to the often forgotten rules:
- each spellbook weight 3 lbs and you need it to memorize spells.

There is a tendency to "forget" that by player that use the 7 strength wizard.

Crap. There goes the bedroll.


snobi wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:


We can add to the often forgotten rules:
- each spellbook weight 3 lbs and you need it to memorize spells.

There is a tendency to "forget" that by player that use the 7 strength wizard.

Crap. There goes the bedroll.

Just make the Big Stupid Fighter carry your non-essential gear. That's what he's there for, but don't forget to tip him a silver or give him a treat every now and then.


In 3.5 you had to kill your target to cleave in Pathfinder you just have to hit.

Silver Crusade

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I just searched this entire thread, and verified this one is new.

Few people understand the subtleties of using an appropriate-size reach weapon when one is Large (Tall) (e.g. affected by Enlarge Person). I have to explain and show this to every group I play with. Here are some issues that apply:

1. The creature takes up 4 squares and has a 20' reach. This means the creature (usually a PC) threatens in a 50' diameter donut! Here's the Paizo diagram (see the Large[Tall] template about halfway down): https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/gamemastering/combat/space-reac h-threatened-area-templates , which looks like this:

---xxxx---
-xxxxxxxx-
-x------x-
xx------xx
xx--rr--xx
xx--rr--xx
xx------xx
-x------x-
-xxxxxxxx-
---xxxx---

2. People already pointed out (in this epic thread) that soft cover applies to reach weapons and blocks AoOs. However, few people seem to know that something nearby (less than half the distance to target) of less than half height does NOT give soft cover. This means that a 12' tall PC with a reach weapon gets AoOs over the heads of nearby allies (and foes) under 6' tall, because nearby short things do not give soft cover. Thus, short PCs can stand in the front rank without blocking AoOs from their Large(Tall) companion in the 2nd rank. However, that adjacent 6'1" tall ally (or foe) WILL block AoOs from a 12' tall creature with a reach weapon. This is the only case I know of in Pathfinder in which Height becomes critically important. Moral: Reach weapon wielding PCs who expect to fight while Enlarged should be tall!

3. A Large (tall) creature using a Reach Weapon can attack out to 20'. This means it can attack something 20' away, and still get an AoO when that foe approaches. There's no way for the foe to 5' step in from 20' away. Moral: PCs are lucky that giants usually lack the sophistication to use reach weapons!

As a tactical consideration, a Large PC with a reach weapon can provide impressive defensive screening to squishy allies, especially if those squishy allies stay close and are not tall. If one goes down this path, Combat Reflexes is a must!


There is no difference in pathfinder between Large (tall) and Large (long), they both take up a 10 x 10 square.

Silver Crusade

Blindmage wrote:
There is no difference in pathfinder between Large (tall) and Large (long), they both take up a 10 x 10 square.

Incorrect! That's exactly the sort of subtlety I was talking about. Look at the diagram I linked to, and re-read the relevant rules.

The Large[Long] creature with a reach weapon only has a 10' reach. The Large[Tall] creature with a reach weapon has a 20' reach. This would apply to, for example, a Large[Long] Maralith demon using (multiple?) normal-sized long spears, versus a Large[Tall] Hill Giant using an (appropriately sized) long spear.

Also, as I pointed out, the Large[Tall] creature will have an easier time striking over nearby allies and foes, without encountering soft cover issues.

Silver Crusade

Magda Luckbender wrote:
The Large[Long] creature with a reach weapon only has a 10' reach [...] This would apply to, for example, a Large[Long] Maralith demon using (multiple?) normal-sized long spears [...]

For reference, here is the space/reach table.

For what it's worth, the Marilith demon has a natural reach of 10 ft. (since it has 10 ft. reach with its longswords), and so would probably be considered Large (tall), not Large (long).

But that doesn't have much to do with your rules claim, which is:

Magda Luckbender wrote:
something nearby (less than half the distance to target) of less than half height does NOT give soft cover. This means that a 12' tall PC with a reach weapon gets AoOs over the heads of nearby allies (and foes) under 6' tall, because nearby short things do not give soft cover. Thus, short PCs can stand in the front rank without blocking AoOs from their Large(Tall) companion in the 2nd rank. However, that adjacent 6'1" tall ally (or foe) WILL block AoOs from a 12' tall creature with a reach weapon. This is the only case I know of in Pathfinder in which Height becomes critically important. Moral: Reach weapon wielding PCs who expect to fight while Enlarged should be tall!

Based on:

Cover wrote:
Low Obstacles and Cover: A low obstacle (such as a wall no higher than half your height) provides cover, but only to creatures within 30 feet (6 squares) of it. The attacker can ignore the cover if he's closer to the obstacle than his target.

I guess you could track heights carefully if you felt like it, but it feels much more in the spirit of the game to assume for practical purposes that medium creatures take up a 5x5x5 cube, large creatures a 10x10x10, and so on. Do you have any solid rules references on counting vertical space?

Silver Crusade

Joe M. wrote:
For what it's worth, the Marilith demon has a natural reach of 10 ft. (since it has 10 ft. reach with its longswords), and so would probably be considered Large (tall), not Large (long).

You are correct. I gave a poor example.

Cover wrote:
Low Obstacles and Cover: A low obstacle (such as a wall no higher than half your height) provides cover, but only to creatures within 30 feet (6 squares) of it. The attacker can ignore the cover if he's closer to the obstacle than his target.
Quote:
Do you have any solid rules...

You just quoted the relevant rules. The wording is a little twisted. Another way to say the same thing is The attacker can ignore the cover if the obstacle is closer to the attacker than to the target, and the obstacle is no higher than one-half the attacker's height. This means that a Large[Tall] creature with a 20' reach weapon can strike over a (less than half height) adjacent ally or foe, without encountering soft cover. This implies the Large[Tall] attacker in the 2nd rank can take AoOs at a target 15' or 20' away, over the heads of the (much shorter) first rank.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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There is no such thing as Large (long) and Large (tall) in Pathfinder. The fact that some random peeps put it on their fansite does not make it part of the Pathfinder ruleset.

Look at the copyright notice on the bottom of that d20pfsrd.com page that you (Magda) linked. See how the copyright belongs to them and not to Paizo? That's because they (the fansite) wrote it themselves.

Not that you can always trust that site even when they DO attribute something to Paizo, as they have a tendency to re-write things without mentioning that they've done so.

Silver Crusade

Jiggy wrote:

There is no such thing as Large (long) and Large (tall) in Pathfinder. The fact that some random peeps put it on their fansite does not make it part of the Pathfinder ruleset.

Look at the copyright notice on the bottom of that d20pfsrd.com page that you (Magda) linked. See how the copyright belongs to them and not to Paizo? That's because they (the fansite) wrote it themselves.

Not that you can always trust that site even when they DO attribute something to Paizo, as they have a tendency to re-write things without mentioning that they've done so.

That's what I thought too, but I found the distinction on this table in the Combat chapter (didn't find the rest of the information on the table ML gave the faulty url for). The only weight it seems to carry, though, is whether the large creature has a 10 ft. reach (standard) or a 5 ft. reach (as, e.g., with the grizzly bear). So functionally I don't know that it matters any.

(And +1 to all the cautions about that website. Give me the PRD any day.)


I asked Adam Daigle about the distinction, since he's the monster dude, and said it no longer existed.

Silver Crusade

Cheapy wrote:
I asked Adam Daigle about the distinction, since he's the monster dude, and said it no longer existed.

Thanks. Glad to hear it, too.


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I think most people don't know the mythic rules yet.


That's cheating!


Well I have the book in my hands, so I thought it was fair game.


RAW, but not RAI ;)


Jiggy wrote:

There is no such thing as Large (long) and Large (tall) in Pathfinder. The fact that some random peeps put it on their fansite does not make it part of the Pathfinder ruleset.

Look at the copyright notice on the bottom of that d20pfsrd.com page that you (Magda) linked. See how the copyright belongs to them and not to Paizo? That's because they (the fansite) wrote it themselves.

Not that you can always trust that site even when they DO attribute something to Paizo, as they have a tendency to re-write things without mentioning that they've done so.

In my experience with the PFSRD vs the PRD, the PFSRD is often more accurate. If something is found to be inaccurate for whatever reason, there's usually and Editor's Note explaining the inaccuracy, and the recommended correct number.

As for fan-stuff, if it's not directly published by Paizo, most stuff that's made by fans is indicated as being Fan-Made or 3rd Party. The only thing that isn't that comes to mind is Hydra's with different heads. Each additional HD gives another minimum head the Hydra has, but the Feats and stuff that come with bonus HD aren't 'canon' because Paizo hasn't published Hydra variants of all the different possibilities.

Liberty's Edge

Please take the rules debate to another thread. This has gotten to the debase and commentary stage. We've been trying to keep this thread relatively free from side trips.

Taking the opportunity to mention that the link to the last summary (only covers) about the first 550-600 posts is linked in my profile. If I ever complete another summary, that link will be updated.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

I don't think this one has been mentioned, sorry if so:

If you take damage from an attack of opportunity while doing a combat maneuver (such as if you don't have the appropriate feat), that damage gets subtracted from your CMB attempt.

(Less clear if a foe's readied action to interrupt your CMB also inflicts the same penalty.) Discussion on that aspect of things is here.


Kennethray wrote:

You may only Craft 1 magic Item per day. This was one we overlooked for almost a year!

K-Ray

Including potions? We found this out after I had rolled up a potion-brewing Mystic Theurge to help with CLW potions. So arbitrary.


Including potions, scrolls, anything. Scribed up a scroll of a cantrip? You're done crafting for the day, bub.


Cleanthes wrote:
Including potions, scrolls, anything. Scribed up a scroll of a cantrip? You're done crafting for the day, bub.

This is just dumb. We always used the "up to 1,000 gp value per day" rule back in 3.5, things worked just fine. Not sure if it was just a house rule or official.

This makes one more rule I'm chucking out the window, next time I DM.


Verse wrote:

When using a ranged weapon, if there is anything blocking line of effect or providing cover, or a creature (enemy OR ALLY) in between you and your target, the target is given a +4 cover (soft in case of creatures) bonus to AC (unless you have certain feats).

This applies to reach weapons as well when used against targets that are not adjacent to you (such as with a spiked chain or with certain class abilities that allow you to use a reach weapon against an adjacent opponent).

I've lost count of the number of times people have been surprised by this, mainly that allies can provide an opponent with soft cover.

I really do hate this rule I'm glad our DM doesn't use it.


I'm not a fan of this rule either. I'd like to know why the devs thought it was necessary.


Cleanthes wrote:
I'm not a fan of this rule either. I'd like to know why the devs thought it was necessary.

Well, to be fair, it makes a lot of sense. If you're standing behind your BDF and you're shooting at the guy he's fighting, then he's going to be in the way. It's one of the reasons Precise Shot is necessary. Imagine if you didn't have Precise Shot....


Oops, sorry, I should have quoted it. I was talking about the "craft only 1 item a day no matter how cheap" rule. o.O

Liberty's Edge

Cleanthes wrote:
Oops, sorry, I should have quoted it. I was talking about the "craft only 1 item a day no matter how cheap" rule. o.O

Making healing wands back to back is a good thing?

You aren't working at a assembly line.

Not RAW but if you are making a scroll or potions and it cost less than 250 gp, so that you end it in 2 hours (there is a specific rule about scroll and potions crafting time), I allow the crafter to make another potion or scroll, but it is an exception and only because Brew potions is the weakest crafting feat.

PRD wrote:
Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less). Scrolls and potions whose base price is more than 250 gp, but less than 1,000 gp, take 8 hours to create, just like any other magic item.

Notice that the rules is not only that you can only make a item in a day, but that

PRD wrote:
Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours.

so, if your item price is 1,005 gp you need 16 hours to make it.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Cleanthes wrote:
Oops, sorry, I should have quoted it. I was talking about the "craft only 1 item a day no matter how cheap" rule. o.O

Making healing wands back to back is a good thing?

You aren't working at a assembly line.

Not RAW but if you are making a scroll or potions and it cost less than 250 gp, so that you end it in 2 hours (there is a specific rule about scroll and potions crafting time), I allow the crafter to make another potion or scroll, but it is an exception and only because Brew potions is the weakest crafting feat.

PRD wrote:
Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less). Scrolls and potions whose base price is more than 250 gp, but less than 1,000 gp, take 8 hours to create, just like any other magic item.

Notice that the rules is not only that you can only make a item in a day, but that

PRD wrote:
Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours.

so, if your item price is 1,005 gp you need 16 hours to make it.

Who said anything about being in an assembly line? I was the potion-brewer for a party without a dedicated healer class. I had some(read 2) levels of cleric, but the potions were to help personal healing, so that I could do other things in combat besides heal, which I kinda thought was the point of having other means of healing aside from a cleric casting Cure Wounds all day.

Taking 2 hours or 8 hours didn't make much of a difference when you have to brew during downtime to begin with.

We changed it right away to "If you can brew a potion in 2 hours, then you can brew enough potions to fill up the normal 8 hours of crafting(4)." Seriously, how the heck did the developers think cheap potions were going to wreck game balance?

Grand Lodge

Knowledge check is a free action. In some cases it is an immediate action. (As in, creature shows up, everyone gets a knowledge check, they don't have to wait till their turn.)

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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FLite wrote:
Knowledge check is a free action. In some cases it is an immediate action. (As in, creature shows up, everyone gets a knowledge check, they don't have to wait till their turn.)
The rules on Knowledge skills wrote:
Action: Usually none. In most cases, a Knowledge check doesn't take an action (but see “Untrained,” below).

Grand Lodge

yes, that is even more precise. I was really responding to people who say you can only make a knowledge check on your turn. (or that you have to spend a standard or move action to make the check.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I'm not sure how calling something an immediate action is just a less-precise way of describing that it's not an action at all, but okay.


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There's a feat to remove penalties from firing while prone.

No such penalties exist.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

FlySkyHigh wrote:

There's a feat to remove penalties from firing while prone.

No such penalties exist.

The feat got eratta'd to actually do something. It's noted in the FAQ somewhere. :)


It's OK. Until recently I missed that they actually issued a FAQ for Vital Strike/Attack Action last December, after not doing so for years after Pathfinder's release (it had been a messageboard post only up till December).

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