They may have fought for a lord but they definitely didn't tote around banners. Since when do you envision samurais charging into battle waving big flags? It's a silly mechanic for them to have.
True, they wore them on their back.
I think the designers and developers would say that they aren't aiming for precise historical verisimilitude. When you do this sort of thing you take a real-world concept and develop it creatively in a way you think will be fun and balanced in the game, rather than adhering slavishly to historical detail. There is no reason fantasy samurai should be exactly like real-world historical samurai.
No he is right a Samurai never retreated, they do tactical withdraws.
And Musashi is not a samurai, he is a rounin Kensai, Big difference.
and yes they did wear banners on there back, it was on a pole mounted on their back.
Um samurai definately carried banners. Not in hand, they were strapped to their backs. As for retreating, in fact samurai often retreated and followed a far more practical code in their heydey. It is only when Japan began to mordernize and the Samurai fell out of favor that the romanticized 'never surrender never retreat' attitude became widely accepted.
They may have fought for a lord but they definitely didn't tote around banners. Since when do you envision samurais charging into battle waving big flags? It's a silly mechanic for them to have.
Also.. mounts don't really fit the 'wandering samurai' archetype. Mounts don't fit samurai in many cases. Did musashi have a mount? Nope. So yeah, that's the feedback there.
Sorry man, your info is wrong.
banner
mount
banners AND mounts
more banners and mounts
actual historical banners
and just to drive it home, a period illustration of a samurai, on a horse, with a banner
that first banner pic was really cool
Nice bunch of links.
No he is right a Samurai never retreated, they do tactical withdraws.
To misquote General Oliver Smith :-)
Samurai don't retreat they advance in a different direction!
And Musashi is not a samurai, he is a rounin Kensai, Big difference.
Musashi was Samurai. Remember Samurai is a social class and only inherited by birth by the time of Musashi. A Ronin was a Samurai, they just lacked a lord. Hideyoshi outlawed peasants from picking up weapons and getting elevated to Samurai status.
|
There's an old traditional festival (since Kamakura era [edit: or since Heian era, if based on its legend]) of samurai riders still remaining in the nearby prefecture of where I live:
Samurai Gunners, and Samurai riders with banners in their back.
Sweet ya found one with the matchlocks, people always forget they used those.
For other gunner Samurai, take a loot at the movie Kagemusha (Akira Kurosawa!).
Might see if I can find it. I tend to like the historical samurai much more then the modern over romanticized take on the samurai.
There was a whole scene in the most iconic samurai movie ever (Seven Samurai) where they made their banner, explained the symbols on it, and flew it into battle.
So this thread has been properly stomped, yes?
Good info all around, y'all. I feel very educated on the Samurai, and am more confident that the Cavalier was a good choice.
Good movies for Samurai reference (Kurosawa movies):
Ran
Kagemusha
Seven Samurai
Sanjuro
Yojimbo
Hidden Fortress
Rashomon
Here are a couple of great reference books also:
The Book of Five Rings. Miyamoto Musashi trans.Thomas Cleary ISBN:0-7607-0444-9, this edition also includes The Book of Family Traditions on the Art of War by Yagyu Munenori.
Samurai:An Illustrated History. By Mitsuo Kure. Library of Congress Control Number: 2001094950. This one is a great picture and historical reference. Tons of a samurai is a cavalier illustrations and photos of reenactments of historical battles,about 35 banner wearing horsemen pics, and a nice write up on weapons including the arquebus.
Warriors of Medieval Japan. By Stephun Turnbull. ISBN: 1-84176-864-2.
Covers not only the samurai, but the ashigaru, ninja,and warrior monks/yamabushi. Another excellent reference for illustrations of equipment and ways of life. Tons of historical references for fleshing out the world they came up in.
Code of the Samurai;A Modern Translation of the Bushido Shoshinsu. Thomas Cleary. ISBN: 0-8048-3190-4. This is an excellent book for how to conduct oneself as a samurai/slash warrior. One chapter covers horsemanship and its importance. Chapters are about 3-4 pages each and cover a broad spectrum of topics from war to dealing with one's relatives. Source for personality.
Hagakure:The Book of the Samurai(trans.Hidden by the Leaves). By Yamamoto Tsunetomo trans. William Scott Wilson. ISBN:4-7700-1106-7.
Philosophy of a samurai on the importance of how to live and how to die. This another mindset book for the roleplayer, not power gamer. It is the core 300 of the original 1300 entries present in the full unabridged book. Of the books listed here it is the most acedemic in that it is very abstract and very Japanese. You will have to look for the meaning in some of the prose. But, well worth the couple of bucks it should be going for on Amazon.
Hope this list helps anyone looking for information on "real" samurai versus the stuff of video games and cartoons.
edit:One more I left on the shelf
The Japanese Art of War:Understanding the Culture of Strategy. By Thomas Cleary. ISBN:0-87773-653-7. Covers the effects of bushido on Japanese mindset as a whole.
Not to derail (too much) but I've been looking, on and off, for a more complete Hagakure translation for years. Any hints on where a layman might actually begin a search?
Not really, bud. I would say start with the major publishers of Japanese translations like Tuttle, Kodansha, and possibly Osprey. Hope this helps.
Edit: Oh, Shambhala also!
In real life, there is no reason for a samurai to believe a single other individual outscales his powerlevel so there isn't as much incentive to run. In pathfinder, a 1st level samurai can end up in a fight with a third level rogue. You have to let him retreat.
This.
|
|
One of my favorite depictions of the samurai came through Legend of the Five Rings. Lawfulness was important to the samurai, but depending on your clan, you focused on different skills, feats and weapons.
(That said, I also liked the depiction of Samurai in the 3rd edition Rokugan Campaign Setting.)
Bruce does get heavy. Especially when he gets angry.
My Favourites were always the Ii samurai. A whole clan army in blood red armour with blood red banners inscribed with black kanji..totally cool
...in your thread, smurfin' it up.
Good movies for Samurai reference (Kurosawa movies):
Ran
Kagemusha
Seven Samurai
Sanjuro
Yojimbo
Hidden Fortress
Rashomon
The historical references are great, but for me, Kurosawa is the strongest touchstone for the American imagination of the samurai.
I'm curious if the OP will make a comeback :)
Maybe he's off consulting the Radish God?
Good movies for Samurai reference (Kurosawa movies):
Ran
Kagemusha
Seven Samurai
Sanjuro
Yojimbo
Hidden Fortress
Rashomon
The thing I've always found interesting about classic samurai movies is there is no ahistorical, romanticized crap.
Medieval knights? Always wandering around, helping people out, acting chivalrous.
Westerns? Well, presuming the cowboy is wearing a white hat, he's polite and means well, although he may be a little crude at time.
Samurai movies? All slaughter and rape and general nastiness. Remember in Seven Samurai when the gang finally gets to the village? All the peasants run out to hide in the woods and make their daughters cut their hair short.
I have no particular theory about why this is so, but I appreciate a little honesty in my time-period flicks.
Good movies for Samurai reference (Kurosawa movies):
Ran
Kagemusha
Seven Samurai
Sanjuro
Yojimbo
Hidden Fortress
Rashomon
The thing I've always found interesting about classic samurai movies is there is no ahistorical, romanticized crap.
Medieval knights? Always wandering around, helping people out, acting chivalrous.
Westerns? Well, presuming the cowboy is wearing a white hat, he's polite and means well, although he may be a little crude at time.
Samurai movies? All slaughter and rape and general nastiness. Remember in Seven Samurai when the gang finally gets to the village? All the peasants run out to hide in the woods and make their daughters cut their hair short.
I have no particular theory about why this is so, but I appreciate a little honesty in my time-period flicks.
Nah, that was already the cleaned-up version... ;-)
OP, please take a moment to read about historical samurai on the internet.
or wait... was this meant to be sarcastic?
There have been some great posts in this thread, but Rezdave, your last post takes the cake. (Whatever kind of cake is historically appropriate to samurai, that is.)
|
|
The thing I've always found interesting about classic samurai movies is there is no ahistorical, romanticized crap.
Well, you're in luck. The modern trend is to ahistorically romanticize exotic foreign things while portraying our own history as gritty and 'realistic'.
The Warrior's Way is a great example.
...dang. Now I want to turn that into the BIGGEST PLAYTEST EVER of the gunslinger and ninja classes.
I'm curious if the OP will make a comeback :)
I think after the steady enlightenment of his non histroically accurate views in this thread and his one about Naruto Ninja's hes prolly down for the count.
Well, you're in luck. The modern trend is to ahistorically romanticize exotic foreign things while portraying our own history as gritty and 'realistic'.
The Warrior's Way is a great example.
...dang. Now I want to turn that into the BIGGEST PLAYTEST EVER of the gunslinger and ninja classes.
Oh come on, there was nothing realistic the Warrior's Way. It wallowed in it's over the top outragousness like a pig in slop. My one regret about that movie was they cut the line "ninjas... damn." from the actual movie.
While its true that Kurasawa's Ran, is his rendition of King Lear, the word "Ran" means family civil war, and such occurrences do exist in Japanese history. Many family civil wars have occurred and the correct term to describe them is RAN.
Hanagura no Ran
In 1536, when the head of the Imagawa clan, Imagawa Ujiteru, died of illness, Imagawa Yoshimoto went to war against his older brother Genkô Etan for control of the clan. This succession dispute is known as the Hanagura no ran. With the military assistance of Hojo Ujitsuna of Sagami province and the support of Takeda Nobutora of Kai province, Yoshimoto became victorious over his older brother, and gained control of the clan.
Tenbun no Ran
The Tenbun no ran was a feud between Date Tanemune and his son, Date Harumune when Tanemune attempted to adopt another of his sons, Date Sanemoto, to the Uesugi clan which Harumune steadfastly opposed. What was initially a disagreement eventually escalated into a small internal clan war. Though Tanemune had the advantage for some time, Harumune gained the support of the Soma and Asihina clans, turning the feud in his favor. Eventually, Tanemune lost and was forced to retire in 1548, allowing Harumune to take control of the clan.
The Tenbun no ran lasted roughly 6 years, beginning in 1542, causing much strife within the Date clan and many of its retainers, leaving it weak and unstable. The Date clan would not restabalize until Harumune's son, Date Terumune would take over, who in turn retired in favor of his son, Date Masamune.
Perhaps Kurasawa didn't want to make any historical mistakes so rather than choosing a true historical Ran, he chose King Lear instead and was safer from an historical point of view.
GP
I think Kurasawa was just a fan.
;-{)>
Our Ronin's Banner is a bumper sticker on his helmet that says "I break for mamma san"
Correct. It's ahistorically romanticized. Significantly.
So who's history was portayed as grim and "realistic"? ;p
Oh come on, there was nothing realistic the Warrior's Way. It wallowed in it's over the top outragousness like a pig in slop. My one regret about that movie was they cut the line "ninjas... damn." from the actual movie.Correct. It's ahistorically romanticized. Significantly.
Its the hair, asians have such nice hair.... warrants power and badassness
Rezdave, your last post takes the cake. (Whatever kind of cake is historically appropriate to samurai, that is.)Probably rice-cakes stuffed with red-bean filling ... or better yet red-bean-stuffed mochi cakes.
Yum ...
R.
I can't get into red-bean as desert food. Now, snowballs filled with pistachio or coconut or moon cakes with lotus paste are more my speed.
Red bean mochi and lotus paste moon cakes with the egg in the center. May need to head down to Lawson's or Family Mart and get one later. Anyone ever been in Japan or Okinawa and been to one of these Convini's. You could even pick up a little manga to fuel a couple arguments about Samurai chopping down trees in a single swipe or their should only be one levvel for the ninja and it should be 36 because ninja appears and the game is over, lol.