Maximum Damage Reduction

[SigmaX0]

Could anybody help me to clarify what the largest DR a character can achieve is within the Pathfinder core rules? (plus APG)

As far as I can see, it would be an Invulnerable Rager taking the Improved DR rage power 3 times, for 13 DR at level 20 whilst raging, or do those 2 types of DR not stack?

[Jason Nelson]

SigmaX0 wrote:

Could anybody help me to clarify what the largest DR a character can achieve is within the Pathfinder core rules? (plus APG)

As far as I can see, it would be an Invulnerable Rager taking the Improved DR rage power 3 times, for 13 DR at level 20 whilst raging, or do those 2 types of DR not stack?

The Improved DR rage power specifically stipulates that it increases the DR you get from your DR class ability, so they do stack.

[Abraham spalding]

Jason Nelson wrote:

The Improved DR rage power specifically stipulates that it increases the DR you get from your DR class ability, so they do stack.

But wouldn't that be your DR class ability?

[Jason Nelson]

Abraham spalding wrote:

Jason Nelson wrote:

The Improved DR rage power specifically stipulates that it increases the DR you get from your DR class ability, so they do stack.

But wouldn't that be your DR class ability?

Not sure I understand your question. To restate:

Invulnerable Rager gets DR/- equal to 1/2 level (doubled vs. nonlethal). That DR applies all the time.

So 20th level IR barb = DR 10/- (20/- vs. nonlethal)

The Improved DR rage power increases your DR class ability by 1 (each time you take it, up to 3x), but only while you're raging.

So 20th level IR barb while raging = DR 13/- (23/- vs. nonlethal)

Clear as water, or clear as mud?

[Abraham spalding]

yeah I thought you were saying that you couldn't take the improved DR rage power as an invulnerable rager archetype -- I seemed to have somehow put a "not" in your sentence subconsciously or something.

[SigmaX0]

So is that the biggest DR one could achieve, or is there another form of stacking DR?

[Skull]

SigmaX0 wrote:

So is that the biggest DR one could achieve, or is there another form of stacking DR?

Yes, I believe it is. The Invulnerable Rager is built around this.

The Stalwart defender gets nice boosts to his DR, but with defensive stance powers and adamantine heavy armour he would only get to DR 10/-

[Abrar "Glade" Ajmal]

What if the Invulnerable rager donned an adamantine breast plate, would the DR from that armor stack, and so improve the DR beyond 13/-?

[The Speaker in Dreams]

Abrar "Glade" Ajmal wrote:

What if the Invulnerable rager donned an adamantine breast plate, would the DR from that armor stack, and so improve the DR beyond 13/-?

As far as I know, the DR of similar types *can* stack, but the problem is when it's a different type/source.

So, DR X/-- will stack w/like DR. Looking at Mr. Invulnerable archetype we have 13 from Mr. Rager, and then another 2 from the Adamantine Breastplate, so he'd be at a DR 15/-- as I understand it (and have been running it). [biggest DR potential I believe, unless he wanted to go Heavy and pick up 1 more point for a DR 16/--, AND there's always the PHBII from 3.5 if you want to try armor specialization and get another 2 and maybe end up at DR 18/-- overall, 19 if in hvy armor).

But if there's a barbarian w/DR 5/-- and he gets stone skin cast on him, he'll just go to the Stoneskin value as it's the higher one [DR 10/adamantine]. BUT if someone starts swinging Adamantine on him, his DR 5/-- would be used instead. They don't stack or combine because they're from a different source, BUT all similar-source DR's tend to stack.

That's been my understanding and rulings on it over the years anyway (not until PF's invulnerable rager archetype came out has such a crazy-high potential been available, though - no one comes even *close* to it honestly).

[Abraham spalding]

Um... sorry speaker you have this one completely wrong -- DR is one of the things that does stack at all unless the source specifically says it does.

In the case of the invulnerable rager DR 13/- is the best he can do.

The stalwart defender has an ability that specifically stacks with DR from armor (such as adamantine armor). The best he can do is DR 10/- (with level 10 stalwart defender both of his improved DR choices and adamantine full plate).

[Alexander Kilcoyne]

Throw in a savage skald bard buddy in for the invulnerable rager, and your looking at DR18/-

[Muser]

Dr 18/-? Oh, zeusdamnit, that is some tanking ability. And with hp in the hundreds plus high saves against spells an invulnerable rager is nearly unstoppable.

Unless you bribe the CN bastard, that is.

[peep_delta]

Abraham spalding wrote:

In the case of the invulnerable rager DR 13/- is the best he can do.

Actually...

A Halfling Invulnerable Rager, with Endurance (1), Die Hard (3), Stalwart (5), Cautious Fighter (7), and Improved Stalwart (11)...fighting defensively all the time...with at least 3 ranks in Acrobatics...while raging:

DR 23/- is the best he can do.

[chaoseffect]

peep_delta wrote:

Abraham spalding wrote:

In the case of the invulnerable rager DR 13/- is the best he can do.

Actually...

A Halfling Invulnerable Rager, with Endurance (1), Die Hard (3), Stalwart (5), Cautious Fighter (7), and Improved Stalwart (11)...fighting defensively all the time...with at least 3 ranks in Acrobatics...while raging:

DR 23/- is the best he can do.

It seems to me that Improved Stalwart flat caps you at 10 DR period, not just from each source it mentions (i.e. no stacking Fighting Defensively and Combat Expertise for an amount over 10), so I'm not sure how you are calculating 23. I guess it could be read multiple ways though, which could open the way for more DR fun if you go with the lenient reading.

That said, Invulnerable Rager 20 (10) + Improved Stalwart (10) + Dragon Totem line (6) + x3 Increased Damge Reduction (3) = 29 DR.

Nice necromancy btw :P

[Lanitril]

I guess with those feats, a Geokineticist can reach 20 DR without any burn, then 30 with it. So that's neat. Mythic I think stacks with that? Or no? Whatever. It's already killing most of what's up there, and mythic isn't at every table.

Edit: ooooh, dragon totem. I forgot that. So Barbarian has a leg up there, because it doesn't have to burn to hit its highest. But both get pretty high.

[Thunder_TBT]

chaoseffect wrote:

peep_delta wrote:

Abraham spalding wrote:

In the case of the invulnerable rager DR 13/- is the best he can do.

Actually...

A Halfling Invulnerable Rager, with Endurance (1), Die Hard (3), Stalwart (5), Cautious Fighter (7), and Improved Stalwart (11)...fighting defensively all the time...with at least 3 ranks in Acrobatics...while raging:

DR 23/- is the best he can do.

It seems to me that Improved Stalwart flat caps you at 10 DR period, not just from each source it mentions (i.e. no stacking Fighting Defensively and Combat Expertise for an amount over 10), so I'm not sure how you are calculating 23. I guess it could be read multiple ways though, which could open the way for more DR fun if you go with the lenient reading.

That said, Invulnerable Rager 20 (10) + Improved Stalwart (10) + Dragon Totem line (6) + x3 Increased Damge Reduction (3) = 29 DR.

Nice necromancy btw :P

I am pretty sure the numbers where the levels he took them at

and he did not go over 10 form stalwart
he got 10 stalwart + 10 barbarian + 3 rage powers

[Major_Blackhart]

Armor master vmc barbarian. Take the damage reduction rage powers in addition to to wearing heavy armor and the dr 3 you get at level 19 from the vmc barb. If you use unchained rage powers which I think you should you get 6 from rage powers plus 3 at lvl 19 from vmc barb plus the 12 from wearing heavy armor. Don't know if adamantine would stack with that tho.

[Tharkon]

Major Blackhart.
Adamantine would stack with Armor master, but neither would stack with the DR you get from Barbarian. You did point out unchained gave double the DR so you get some credit for the following build.

Invulnerability: 10/-
Improved Damage Reduction: +3/- (+6/- with unchained)
Dragon Resilience: +6/-
Improved Stalwart: +10/-
Total: 29/- (32/- with unchained)

Level 1: Diehard
Level 2: Random rage power
Level 3: Endurance
Level 4: Random rage power
Level 5: Stalwart
Level 6: Dragon totem
Level 7: Bolstered resistance
Level 8: Dragon totem resilience
Level 9: Improved DR
Level 10: Dragon totem wings
Level 11: Improved stalwart
Level 12: Improved DR
Level 13: Improved DR

Stalwart stacks with class features.
Dragon resilience increases invulnerability by 6, so does improved damage reduction, so you'd have DR 22/- and DR 10/- which are specified to stack with each other.

Now wear a Hero's Hauberk, which grants DR 1/- which stacks with everything, even DR that isn't DR/-, which gives us DR 33/-.

Now for the icing on the cake.
Bolstered resistance doubles this to DR 66/- against one attack per round as long as you can avoid becoming fatigued. Otherwise it just doubles it once.

Stalwart defender could get DR 26/-
DR 5/- from class feature.
+3/- from adamantine armor.
+7/- from taking improved damage reduction at level 13, 13, 15, 15, 17, 17 and 19.
+10/- from Stalwart.
+1/- from Hero's Hauberk.

Stonelord paladin could get 32/adamantine (but would require taking 6 more feats to achieve this compared to IR) if you allow the following:
Stalwart grants DR 10/- which explicitly stacks with class features. Since specific trumps general this would overrid that DR/- and DR/adamantine don't normally stack.

Precent of armor of different types stacking exists in the Hero's Hauberk where the example shows DR 5/magic stacking with DR 1/- to become DR 6/magic as well as DR 1/-.

[Mauler167]

Armor Master
LV 19th
Dr12/-

With stalwart and improved stalwart feats
gets you DR 22/- total if you get at least a +5 dodge from things, so that stalwart works.

[Metux]

There is the goblin feat roll with it that grants huge DR :)

[666bender]

Tharkon wrote:

Major Blackhart.

Adamantine would stack with Armor master, but neither would stack with the DR you get from Barbarian. You did point out unchained gave double the DR so you get some credit for the following build.

Invulnerability: 10/-
Improved Damage Reduction: +3/- (+6/- with unchained)
Dragon Resilience: +6/-
Improved Stalwart: +10/-
Total: 29/- (32/- with unchained)

Level 1: Diehard
Level 2: Random rage power
Level 3: Endurance
Level 4: Random rage power
Level 5: Stalwart
Level 6: Dragon totem
Level 7: Bolstered resistance
Level 8: Dragon totem resilience
Level 9: Improved DR
Level 10: Dragon totem wings
Level 11: Improved stalwart
Level 12: Improved DR
Level 13: Improved DR

Stalwart stacks with class features.
Dragon resilience increases invulnerability by 6, so does improved damage reduction, so you'd have DR 22/- and DR 10/- which are specified to stack with each other.

Now wear a Hero's Hauberk, which grants DR 1/- which stacks with everything, even DR that isn't DR/-, which gives us DR 33/-.

Now for the icing on the cake.
Bolstered resistance doubles this to DR 66/- against one attack per round as long as you can avoid becoming fatigued. Otherwise it just doubles it once.

Stalwart defender could get DR 26/-
DR 5/- from class feature.
+3/- from adamantine armor.
+7/- from taking improved damage reduction at level 13, 13, 15, 15, 17, 17 and 19.
+10/- from Stalwart.
+1/- from Hero's Hauberk.

Stonelord paladin could get 32/adamantine (but would require taking 6 more feats to achieve this compared to IR) if you allow the following:
Stalwart grants DR 10/- which explicitly stacks with class features. Since specific trumps general this would overrid that DR/- and DR/adamantine don't normally stack.

Precent of armor of different types stacking exists in the Hero's Hauberk where the example shows DR 5/magic stacking with DR 1/- to become DR 6/magic as well as DR 1/-.

first of, Bolstered resilience cap at 20 DR - so - useless feat.

than - where did you saw DR stacks?
lastly - you got stalwart without expertise or crane - no way to activate it.

[Secret Wizard]

Unchained Barbarian Invulnerable Rager with 3 Increased Damage Reduction and the two Dragon Totem powers is DR 20/- base at level 20.

With the Aldori Caution trait, Crane Style and Combat Expertise, that's an additional +10 AC from fighting defensively + combat expertise, so you could stack it to DR 30/-.

[Kaboogy]

You can just fight defensively. And I just feel it should be pointed out to anyone going to try any of these that although RAW dragon totem adds +6 DR, it is a contested reading, with many believing it means energy resistance. So expect table variance.

[GM Bold Strider]

@Secret Wizard: What is the Aldori Caution trait?