Renards: CG shapeshifting foxfey
(the rest is not in a need of mention)
Renards: CG shapeshifting foxfey
(the rest is not in a need of mention)
How do you envision them differing from Kitsune? (Which I'd tend to see as CN.)
Honestly, I would love to see a Bestiary overflowing with +1 and +2 CR templates.
And yes, rather than just mixing two creatures together ('dragon + undead' or 'elemental + undead' etc.), giving us templates to do it ourselves so we can also do it to all sorts of other creatures too is quite a bit more useful.
Something I really liked about some of WotC's later Monster Manuals was the inclusion of monsters with various class levels ready to use (I could go to 'Orc', and find maybe a barbarian 2, a cleric 2, a barbarian 4, a rogue 5, and an oracle 6, all statted out already)
I also really enjoyed the knowledge DC charts, with the blurb that you read to PCs about the monster based on your check result.
Actually, just a manual of NPCs would be fantastic, sorted by character level. Even if they just took all the NPCs from the adventure paths and stuck them in a book with an index, I would buy it.
May have missed these somewhere in the thread (it's quite long) but:
Drop Bears.
Vicious, scary little things with two thumbs on each paw and evil little black eyes.
Adventurers need to have something to fear when they're udner the trees at night.
Reggie.
How do you envision them differing from Kitsune? (Which I'd tend to see as CN.)Renards: CG shapeshifting foxfey
(the rest is not in a need of mention)
google the name would be my guess
May have missed these somewhere in the thread (it's quite long) but:
Drop Bears.
Vicious, scary little things with two thumbs on each paw and evil little black eyes.
Adventurers need to have something to fear when they're udner the trees at night.
Reggie.
I think I recommended that for the last book.
Bestiary 3 also needs thunderbirds.
And how about some of the smaller wild cats, like ocelots, or lynxes. That would cover the "Small" category that cats are missing (especially lynxes).
The thunderbird is in Beastiary II.
Monsters that have various class levels, like a punch of orcs, goblins, drow,etc., belong in an NPC or villian book not a Beastiary.
Drop bears should be in a book similiar to the "Missfit monsters revisited".
Kitsunes, Kappas, Nekomatas would be cool
I hate when I see in a stat block Tome of Horrors so I would love to see all the Tome of horrors monster consolidated and updated in one location. Never happen but it damn sure would be nice!
I hate when I see in a stat block Tome of Horrors so I would love to see all the Tome of horrors monster consolidated and updated in one location. Never happen but it damn sure would be nice!
The thunderbird is in Beastiary II.
Obviously missed that.
Though that just raises the question why we don't have kappas.
The idea for small cats still stands. And flightless birds
Also, seconding bandersnatches and jubjub birds.
Also, seconding bandersnatches and jubjub birds.
Hey, Wes! I wanna do the write up on bandersnatchii!
The Beholder and Mind Flayer are a legal no. Until my idea of Ooglers get some of the attention they merit, I'm not going ahead with a unique replacement for the squid head.The beasties of folklore and fiction seem a better bet than most invented monsters. I'd save invented monsters for paperback products, and then move those that stand the test over to the hardbacks later. Hmm...sounds familiar.The only thing that really appeals to me is more monsters from myth and literature.
So...are you claiming pulp origins for the beholder and mindflayer? In Paizo's case, that's not going to matter: they are adopting the Rabbinical practice of "building a hedge around the Torah." You'd have to find other publishers to publish a Pf conversion of them.
EDIT: Rereading your post, I was kind of guessing what you meant by "getting the attention they merit." If you don't mean by publishers, then feel free to post a link to your Oogler for our ogling.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/conversions/ooglers&page=1#1
It's kind of a rebuild from sources.If I do this for the squid heads I would start with Star Spawn and build from there.
Also, seconding bandersnatches and jubjub birds.Hey, Wes! I wanna do the write up on bandersnatchii!
Oh, the pain! Obviously bandersnatchides and bandersnatchopodes are the only acceptable forms!
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/conversions/ooglers&page=1#1
It's kind of a rebuild from sources.
If I do this for the squid heads I would start with Star Spawn and build from there.
Thanks, Goth Guru. Do you listen to Chronicles podcast? If not, I believe their Monster Mash would be of interest to you.
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I'd like to see the creatures from the Bonus Bestiary added into Bestiary 3. I was really expecting them all to show up in Bestiary 2.
I'd also like to see creatures from the Adventure Paths, especially the earlier paths converted from 3.5 to Pathfinder, show up in the new Bestiary, as well.
Eventually, it would be nice to have every creature available in one of the hardbound Bestiary volumes, so you don't have to flip through 40 or more adventure path books to find something.
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Can you do Broken Ones?
Medium Aberration
Source(s): Denizens of Darkness, Ravenloft (MC10), Monstrous Manual
Also Known As: Animal Men
Alignment: Usually Neutral Evil
Climate/Terrain: Any Land or Underground
Rarity: Rare
Challenge Rating: 3
Experience Value: 175
See Also: Broken Ones, Greater; Shattered BrethrenA large variety of creatures that stem from different methods of origin. They are the result of horrid experiments conducted by twisted surgeons or spellcasters. Others result from powerful curses. They are a forced amalgram of various, twisted creatures' parts.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/paizo/beastairyIIIWishList&page=6#269
I think Mongrelmen in Bestiary 2 already fit the bill...
I think Mongrelmen in Bestiary 2 already fit the bill...Can you do Broken Ones?
Medium Aberration
Source(s): Denizens of Darkness, Ravenloft (MC10), Monstrous Manual
Also Known As: Animal Men
Alignment: Usually Neutral Evil
Climate/Terrain: Any Land or Underground
Rarity: Rare
Challenge Rating: 3
Experience Value: 175
See Also: Broken Ones, Greater; Shattered BrethrenA large variety of creatures that stem from different methods of origin. They are the result of horrid experiments conducted by twisted surgeons or spellcasters. Others result from powerful curses. They are a forced amalgram of various, twisted creatures' parts.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/paizo/beastairyIIIWishList&page=6#269
They try to kill/destroy everything because seeing anything move causes them pain.
I would also like to see the cheshire cat as well
I remember somewhere they said they were going to put the monsters from the bonus bestiary into the beastiary III. But I am still voting for it to be in there so they will hpefully not forgget.
Has anyone said Living Wall yet?
I'm saying it. Living wall!
Basically it is an undead wall that absorbs every creature it kills, and gains all their abilities. Imagine a huge wall of dozens of mangeled bodies all attacking and casting spells at you simultaneously
+1!
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They try to kill/destroy everything because seeing anything move causes them pain.I think Mongrelmen in Bestiary 2 already fit the bill...Can you do Broken Ones?
Medium Aberration
Source(s): Denizens of Darkness, Ravenloft (MC10), Monstrous Manual
Also Known As: Animal Men
Alignment: Usually Neutral Evil
Climate/Terrain: Any Land or Underground
Rarity: Rare
Challenge Rating: 3
Experience Value: 175
See Also: Broken Ones, Greater; Shattered BrethrenA large variety of creatures that stem from different methods of origin. They are the result of horrid experiments conducted by twisted surgeons or spellcasters. Others result from powerful curses. They are a forced amalgram of various, twisted creatures' parts.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/paizo/beastairyIIIWishList&page=6#269
Yeah, I remember... and as far as I can recall from my AD&D DMing days, the biggest difference between the two was in alignment. You could use the fiendish template on mongrelmen, or just decide that in your game they're evil. After all, there's no point for publishing two almost identical, low-CR monsters.
The cool thing about them is you can make furrys that attack people. :)
It's like the horses from greek myth that eat people.
An appendix listing what monsters can be summoned with what summon x spells. Wizards and druids shouldn't miss out on the new critters, especially the expanded planar lore creatures.
Beyond that, convince Gabe and Tycho to let you put out the Deep Crow again. I've got it in 2nd Darkness, but you can never have enough Deep Crow.
An appendix listing what monsters can be summoned with what summon x spells. Wizards and druids shouldn't miss out on the new critters, especially the expanded planar lore creatures.
Beyond that, convince Gabe and Tycho to let you put out the Deep Crow again. I've got it in 2nd Darkness, but you can never have enough Deep Crow.
http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Deep_crow
Cool, another 4 legged bird!|
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An appendix listing what monsters can be summoned with what summon x spells. Wizards and druids shouldn't miss out on the new critters, especially the expanded planar lore creatures.
The thinking is that if you do this, you massively increase the power level of the summoning spells, thus even further unbalancing the caster classes vs. the melee and skill-focused classes.
The general idea is that you might try swapping out creatures of the same CR from the existing lists and that should leave things at about the same power grade.
Summon spells aren't really worth it most of the time, anyway. They're monsters below the CR of the opponents you're likely to face for your highest level spell slots, they require a full round to actually cast, opening you up for spell failure, and they require two feats to make really even marginally worthwhile. But, even if you're worried that you'll make them too good, providing a list of appropriate creatures for each spell level in the appendix makes it much easier for DMs to swap out creatures to create better rounded and appropriate spell lists.
An appendix listing what monsters can be summoned with what summon x spells. Wizards and druids shouldn't miss out on the new critters, especially the expanded planar lore creatures.
The thinking is that if you do this, you massively increase the power level of the summoning spells, thus even further unbalancing the caster classes vs. the melee and skill-focused classes.
The general idea is that you might try swapping out creatures of the same CR from the existing lists and that should leave things at about the same power grade.
How would increasing variety increase their power level? You would still be summoning creatures at a CR half the caster level.
How would increasing variety increase their power level? You would still be summoning creatures at a CR half the caster level.An appendix listing what monsters can be summoned with what summon x spells. Wizards and druids shouldn't miss out on the new critters, especially the expanded planar lore creatures.
The thinking is that if you do this, you massively increase the power level of the summoning spells, thus even further unbalancing the caster classes vs. the melee and skill-focused classes.
The general idea is that you might try swapping out creatures of the same CR from the existing lists and that should leave things at about the same power grade.
I was gonna say that.
Power does not equal selection.Fighters can still kill most of the creatures in the Bestiary 2.
To level the playing field, if magic users can't summon it, then fighters shouldn't be able to hit it.
On the other hand, let casters specialize and make the aberration list include all aberrations.
The main thing I'm interested in is seeing the last round of 3.5 Pathfinder monsters fully Pathfinderized. Including the monsters from the AP Bestiaries and any that haven't been updated from the Campaign Setting books under 3.5.
After that, Paizo's done a really good job of figuring out what kinds of monsters should go in these things.
I agree with you Baracutey 100%.
Brazilian mythical creatures would be interesting.
I would love monsters on the summon monster list or more spells that specilize in one crature type(aberrations, fey, etc.) and bring back "Nixies" to the summon nature's ally list or as cohorts.
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How would increasing variety increase their power level? You would still be summoning creatures at a CR half the caster level.An appendix listing what monsters can be summoned with what summon x spells. Wizards and druids shouldn't miss out on the new critters, especially the expanded planar lore creatures.
The thinking is that if you do this, you massively increase the power level of the summoning spells, thus even further unbalancing the caster classes vs. the melee and skill-focused classes.
The general idea is that you might try swapping out creatures of the same CR from the existing lists and that should leave things at about the same power grade.
Note that I never said I agreed with the general thinking amongst the Paizonians, but that seems to be the idea amongst James, Jason, et al.
How would increasing variety increase their power level? You would still be summoning creatures at a CR half the caster level.Note that I never said I agreed with the general thinking amongst the Paizonians, but that seems to be the idea amongst James, Jason, et al.
It is not a matter of the CR for use in combat as much as it is the increasing access to secondary effects.
Got a chasm to crose? Oh, wait, I'll summon a flying creature and send it to get the mcguffin.
Pool of lava? Wait, let me summon a fire creature.
Water? I know I have an aquatic or water elemental summonable... let me look.
etc.
The core creatures are a list that adventure designers can take to be pretty constant, and not have to worry that later additions will make certain parts of the adventures obsolete.
I *think* that is the main line of thought.
Personally, swapping choices sounds like a decent compromise, hence my suggestion of a series of Tuesday articles on building balanced custom summoning lists.
Lovecraft style members are coming in the Carrion Crown or so I here. I'd ask for the derhii but Lost Cities took care of that.
In general I'd like so see more monsters updated from previous APs, that tentacled egg thing from Legacy of Fire would nice. More prehistoric monsters are also wanted. I have plenty of anthropomorphic races so I don't need those.
More aberrations would be nice
I'd like to see more of the qlippoths or whatever you're calling those weird things from the abyss these days.
I am hoping Tian Xia dragons are in the Tien Xia AP at some point. Any Oriental monsters you don't have the room to shoehorn into the bestiaries of those adventures.
Can we have some more stuff for the Dark Folk?
How would increasing variety increase their power level? You would still be summoning creatures at a CR half the caster level.An appendix listing what monsters can be summoned with what summon x spells. Wizards and druids shouldn't miss out on the new critters, especially the expanded planar lore creatures.
The thinking is that if you do this, you massively increase the power level of the summoning spells, thus even further unbalancing the caster classes vs. the melee and skill-focused classes.
The general idea is that you might try swapping out creatures of the same CR from the existing lists and that should leave things at about the same power grade.
Power comes from versatility, too. RAW damage and stuff means, but is not all.
Used wisely, summoning is very powerful and useful, and yet another way for the wizard to use features related to other classes (elemental-damage sponge, bone devil-control and bruise, lillend-buff and heal).
Said this, alternative summoning lists like the ones in Unearthed Arcana (and the 3.5 SRD here) could be a good compromise.
It is not a matter of the CR for use in combat as much as it is the increasing access to secondary effects.Got a chasm to crose? Oh, wait, I'll summon a flying creature and send it to get the mcguffin.
Pool of lava? Wait, let me summon a fire creature.
Water? I know I have an aquatic or water elemental summonable... let me look.
Your example would be a lot more relevant if not for the fact all those things are already covered by the summon monster and nature's ally list.
What can't the current list already do? How would giving more options make it more overpowered?Especially at SM levels 5 through 8 where all the summons are either Neutral or Evil, except for the two Azatas. How would adding more options for Good summons break the game?
Note that I never said I agreed with the general thinking amongst the Paizonians, but that seems to be the idea amongst James, Jason, et al.
That explains a lot.
I like the idea of focused summoning.
A fire focused summoner would get to summon any fire based creature, but no ice based or aquatic. Balance maintained.
Dwarves would usually choose Earth focused and would not be able to summon flyers or air based creature.
They could always stick with the standard lists instead.
Creative Director
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The main reason we've resisted bloating the summon monster tables is because we don't want to make those spells SO pregnant with options that spellcasters are overwhelmed with choices. Summon spells already slow the game down enough without paralyzing spellcasters with too many choices. Keeping the lists tight and limited to the Core choices allows the player who likes summoning monsters to actually LEARN his spells, since he's not playing a constant game of catch up to re-learn what's the best monster for the best situation.
Non-undead lower CR creatures that turn people into more creatures like themselves.I like this a lot.
Sheep-kin?
:p
Is a Stench Cow a buffalo with the fiendish template?It's a terrible terrible monster and you should be ashamed for mentioning it? :)Isn't that Stench Kow?
And I'm more worried about Brain Weasels. They're the darn things that run through your mind at night and keep you from sleeping because they're bouncing ideas around for stories and characters and whatnot.
Speaking of, one should check out Taig and Ambrosia Slaad's Charnel Cow on Kobold. =)
Yowza! The PMG's hawtness allowed me to double post ... four minutes into the future! /derail
More sprites(atomies, sprites, etc.)
More gremlins
more creatures from the APs
Denizens from the positive energy plane
More creatures from the first world
More mythical creatures
Denizens from the other planets
The main reason we've resisted bloating the summon monster tables is because we don't want to make those spells SO pregnant with options that spellcasters are overwhelmed with choices. Summon spells already slow the game down enough without paralyzing spellcasters with too many choices. Keeping the lists tight and limited to the Core choices allows the player who likes summoning monsters to actually LEARN his spells, since he's not playing a constant game of catch up to re-learn what's the best monster for the best situation.
Summon Monster VIII
+2 Monsters summoning VIII
We need more Law and Chaos options and some places just need to have more Good AL outsiders as well.
What about a new, similar spell?
Summon Things I-IX?