Creative Director
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Yes, but it's a lot of work. In theory, Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengenace COULD be used in this exact manner, although the clash between parties is strictly part of the Continuing the Campaign element and isn't hard-coded into either AP.James, have you ever done the often talked about, rarely pulled off correctly, "two parties running two games that will eventually go against each other" scenario?
Do you think it can be pulled off, and if so, what do you think about it? (Or if not, why?)
I am currently prepping for a 2 party game to start in a few months -which I will be running with another GM- in which the parties are working for two NPCs playing chess with the map of the Inner Sea.
Do you have any advice for running a 2 party game or just general ruminations on when you did so? I would love as much as you're willing to state.
Keep in mind that the PCs get outnumbered very fast. Things that are minor inconveniences like being staggered or even slowed become bigger deals, and things like paralysis increasingly become TPK factories. Be ready to ad hoc adjust encounter difficulty by lowering hp or even playing monsters with sub-optimal tactics (that last bit is a good idea for everyone, actually, since now and then monsters making errors is good for realism.)
And prepare twice as much, since a party of 2 will get through a LOT more content more quickly than a party of 4.
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Creative Director
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Q: Are there any chances for an high intrigue Taldor centered AP any time soon?
Not a big chance, no. Hell's Rebels has a fair amount of political intrigue in it already, so that might scratch your itch. But it'll also mean that unless the reaction of the public is YAY MORE MORE MORE! we'll be unlikely to do a big political AP soon thereafter, but will focus on other plots for the next few years.
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James is there an idea of a plot that you would like to make as an AP but had to drop because it doesn't fit with the Golarion setting?
No. Mostly because I don't spend much time thinking about AP plots UNLESS they fit into Golarion, since I don't have a need to build non-Golarion APs.
NOTABLE EXCEPTION: I have several AP ideas for my Unspeakable Futures game that won't work well for Golarion because these APs are, by their nature, set on a postapocalyptic Earth and thus utilize elements that are not thematically or ruleswise available for Golarion. But I've never considered those APs for Golarion, so I've never had to drop them.
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Q: Are there any chances for an high intrigue Taldor centered AP any time soon?Not a big chance, no. Hell's Rebels has a fair amount of political intrigue in it already, so that might scratch your itch. But it'll also mean that unless the reaction of the public is YAY MORE MORE MORE! we'll be unlikely to do a big political AP soon thereafter, but will focus on other plots for the next few years.
Thanks for answering. One more question if I may: any chance for an AP set in Taldor at all?
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James, how do you feel about Call of Cthulhu games that closely sticks with the source material (ie your insignificant characters will go insane or die no exceptions, nothing you do will ever impact the evils of the world, other nihilistic themes) vs. Lovecraft Lite (ie, you destroy the cult that was entrenched in the city, slay their pet horror from the stars, and still come away with your sanity and health damaged but intact)?
Yes, but it's a lot of work. In theory, Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengenace COULD be used in this exact manner, although the clash between parties is strictly part of the Continuing the Campaign element and isn't hard-coded into either AP.James, have you ever done the often talked about, rarely pulled off correctly, "two parties running two games that will eventually go against each other" scenario?
Do you think it can be pulled off, and if so, what do you think about it? (Or if not, why?)
I am currently prepping for a 2 party game to start in a few months -which I will be running with another GM- in which the parties are working for two NPCs playing chess with the map of the Inner Sea.
Do you have any advice for running a 2 party game or just general ruminations on when you did so? I would love as much as you're willing to state.
Keep in mind that the PCs get outnumbered very fast. Things that are minor inconveniences like being staggered or even slowed become bigger deals, and things like paralysis increasingly become TPK factories. Be ready to ad hoc adjust encounter difficulty by lowering hp or even playing monsters with sub-optimal tactics (that last bit is a good idea for everyone, actually, since now and then monsters making errors is good for realism.)
And prepare twice as much, since a party of 2 will get through a LOT more content more quickly than a party of 4.
I'm not sure I follow. It it helps, the two parties will be run on seperate nights with one party's actions affecting the next session for the other party and vice versa.
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Creative Director
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Thanks for answering. One more question if I may: any chance for an AP set in Taldor at all?Q: Are there any chances for an high intrigue Taldor centered AP any time soon?Not a big chance, no. Hell's Rebels has a fair amount of political intrigue in it already, so that might scratch your itch. But it'll also mean that unless the reaction of the public is YAY MORE MORE MORE! we'll be unlikely to do a big political AP soon thereafter, but will focus on other plots for the next few years.
Of course there's a chance!
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Creative Director
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James, how do you feel about Call of Cthulhu games that closely sticks with the source material (ie your insignificant characters will go insane or die no exceptions, nothing you do will ever impact the evils of the world, other nihilistic themes) vs. Lovecraft Lite (ie, you destroy the cult that was entrenched in the city, slay their pet horror from the stars, and still come away with your sanity and health damaged but intact)?
I think that suggests the need to re-read the source material. Death and madness are threats in Lovecraft's stories... but they're FAR from certain. In fact, with stories like The Dunwich Horror or Call of Cthulhu, the protagonists not only survive shaken but sane, but save the world for a time. What you call "Lovecraft Lite" was actually as much Lovecraft as anything else.
AKA: I think it's spot on.
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Creative Director
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I'm not sure I follow. It it helps, the two parties will be run on seperate nights with one party's actions affecting the next session for the other party and vice versa.Yes, but it's a lot of work. In theory, Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengenace COULD be used in this exact manner, although the clash between parties is strictly part of the Continuing the Campaign element and isn't hard-coded into either AP.James, have you ever done the often talked about, rarely pulled off correctly, "two parties running two games that will eventually go against each other" scenario?
Do you think it can be pulled off, and if so, what do you think about it? (Or if not, why?)
I am currently prepping for a 2 party game to start in a few months -which I will be running with another GM- in which the parties are working for two NPCs playing chess with the map of the Inner Sea.
Do you have any advice for running a 2 party game or just general ruminations on when you did so? I would love as much as you're willing to state.
Keep in mind that the PCs get outnumbered very fast. Things that are minor inconveniences like being staggered or even slowed become bigger deals, and things like paralysis increasingly become TPK factories. Be ready to ad hoc adjust encounter difficulty by lowering hp or even playing monsters with sub-optimal tactics (that last bit is a good idea for everyone, actually, since now and then monsters making errors is good for realism.)
And prepare twice as much, since a party of 2 will get through a LOT more content more quickly than a party of 4.
Oh. I've never run a game like that. My advice is to stay willing to improvise then.
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Questions. >_<
Mr. Jacobs:
I hear the Iconic Kineticist is a very young character. I thought Paizo felt that that would be received poorly in the past - children in danger, sort of thing.
Has something changed to alter that assumption, or was the "iconic" nature of the child firestarter too much to pass up?
Thank you! ^_^
Rtaher curious about this myself.
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Creative Director
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Rtaher curious about this myself.Questions. >_<
Mr. Jacobs:
I hear the Iconic Kineticist is a very young character. I thought Paizo felt that that would be received poorly in the past - children in danger, sort of thing.
Has something changed to alter that assumption, or was the "iconic" nature of the child firestarter too much to pass up?
Thank you! ^_^
There's a HUGE difference between "children in danger" and "young adventurer."
We fully support stories like Game of Thrones (Arya Stark!) and Harry Potter and Avatar and Firestarter (the last two being the prime inspirations for the iconic in question) and the like, which feature young strong protagonists. Who do find themselves in very real danger very often.
What we DO try to avoid is elements in adventure where children are used as lazy ways to up tension, or are seen being tormented or abused for no other reason than cruelty. We DO have adventures that place children in danger—the whole opening of Crimson Throne, for example, or the plot of "Crown of the Kobold King," or more recently the first robot encounter in Iron Gods.
It's easy to do wrong, and as a general rule it's less time-consuming for us to advise the majority of our writers to simply avoid the "child in peril" trope in their writing. If and when an author can handle the element, we'll know and won't issue such warnings against using them.
It's really up to you, frankly. If you've got the time, custom building unique creatures is more rewarding, but if you're strapped for time, just use stats for similar CR monsters and simply describe them differently in play.
Thank you for your answers!
Another unrelated question: With the Hell's Vengance AP is there any chance of having an LE "hell-adin" / hellknight, maybe as an Archetype of the Antipaladin?
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It's really up to you, frankly. If you've got the time, custom building unique creatures is more rewarding, but if you're strapped for time, just use stats for similar CR monsters and simply describe them differently in play.Thank you for your answers!
Another unrelated question: With the Hell's Vengance AP is there any chance of having an LE "hell-adin" / hellknight, maybe as an Archetype of the Antipaladin?
The Hellknight prestige class and the warpriest base class already cover this. The antipaladin is as evil as he is chaotic—a lawful evil "antipaladin" is only half the story. It's not appropriate an archetype for the antipaladin, any more so than it is for a paladin to have a Desnan archetype.
Contributor
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Super curious (but excited!) about the Westcrown connection as well. I'm probably going to rerun CoT for some new players, so I look forward to tying it all together.
Also, thank you for the answer re: children in danger. I appreciate all the answers, really... ^_^
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James with the 6th adventure of Hell's Vengeance called Hell comes to Westcrown is this AP going to be somewhat a sequel to Council of Thieves?
Sort of, yes. In the same way Jade Regent is sort of a sequel to Runelords. We assume so, but it's not required, and there'll be advice to run it otherwise.
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Contributor
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James with the 6th adventure of Hell's Vengeance called Hell comes to Westcrown is this AP going to be somewhat a sequel to Council of Thieves?Sort of, yes. In the same way Jade Regent is sort of a sequel to Runelords. We assume so, but it's not required, and there'll be advice to run it otherwise.
Wait... so "sequel to CoT" is the default?
If so, I need to make some plans...
Also, thank you. ^_^
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James with the 6th adventure of Hell's Vengeance called Hell comes to Westcrown is this AP going to be somewhat a sequel to Council of Thieves?Sort of, yes. In the same way Jade Regent is sort of a sequel to Runelords. We assume so, but it's not required, and there'll be advice to run it otherwise.
Aw man, I hope it doesn't mean all the work PCs do in Council of Thieves gets undone! Will it?
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Creative Director
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Aw man, I hope it doesn't mean all the work PCs do in Council of Thieves gets undone! Will it?James with the 6th adventure of Hell's Vengeance called Hell comes to Westcrown is this AP going to be somewhat a sequel to Council of Thieves?Sort of, yes. In the same way Jade Regent is sort of a sequel to Runelords. We assume so, but it's not required, and there'll be advice to run it otherwise.
That depends on how your GM wants to play it, but if the Thrune-allied PCs win the day in Hell's Vengeance, the end result should be...
Hell's Vengeance is, in other words, about maintaining status quo and preventing a significant campaign change, kind of in line with something like Second Darkness or Legacy of Fire, while Hell's Rebels is about making an actual change to some political borders and leadership akin to what happens in Kingmaker. Neither impacts the other directly. Hope that clears some things up?
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Creative Director
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James with the 6th adventure of Hell's Vengeance called Hell comes to Westcrown is this AP going to be somewhat a sequel to Council of Thieves?Sort of, yes. In the same way Jade Regent is sort of a sequel to Runelords. We assume so, but it's not required, and there'll be advice to run it otherwise.Wait... so "sequel to CoT" is the default?
If so, I need to make some plans...
Also, thank you. ^_^
It's the assumption, yes, but it's not going to be a big deal to change things either way. As a sequel or not it'll play out the same, and you as the GM SHOULD not have to do much planning at all. By the time the PCs get to Westcrown in the sixth adventure, it's going to be a very different place than it was in either of those incarnations anyway, so it doesn't really matter what was going on there in the first place as far as GM prep is concerned.
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That depends on how your GM wants to play it, but if the Thrune-allied PCs win the day in Hell's Vengeance, the end result should be...
That was a LOT more info than I expected this early.
Does it mean, though, that
I totally understand if you don't want to spoil all that this early.
Would I be correct in thinking
I.e., your goal is to maintain the status quo, because that's what Her Infernal Majesty is paying you generously to do?
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That depends on how your GM wants to play it, but if the Thrune-allied PCs win the day in Hell's Vengeance, the end result should be...That was a LOT more info than I expected this early.
Does it mean, though, that
** spoiler omitted **
I'm not gonna spoil everything for ya. Patience. Also, it's Rob's AP so I don't wanna take all his fun away answering everything.
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Talking about Queen Abrogail, James where did you get the inspiration for her?
I didn't; she isn't one of my controbutions to the world. I'm actually not sure WHO came up with her. The big evil queen I'm responsbile for is Korvosa's Queen Illeosa, who was inspired by evil queens throughout all sorts of fiction and more than a little Elizabeth Bathory.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I was thinking on Fury Road after my third viewing. Did you realize the people living in the muck are reminiscent of the stilt creatures from Dark Crystal and the garbage lady from Labrinth?
p.s. You don't need to watch Kung Fury unless you really miss bad movies from the late 80s that are juvenile.
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I was thinking on Fury Road after my third viewing. Did you realize the people living in the muck are reminiscent of the stilt creatures from Dark Crystal and the garbage lady from Labrinth?
p.s. You don't need to watch Kung Fury unless you really miss bad movies from the late 80s that are juvenile.
I did.
And I grew up in the 80s and have a LOT of nostalgia for those movies. Turns out, those movies are still out there and I can go ahead and watch them when I want. I don't really need to see something that might mock parts of my childhood.
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Some of my peers have said that Pathfinder Core Rules don't lend themselves to adventuring underwater very well. That while there are temporary fixes for short adventures and encounters, long term it is more of a hassle than fun. They're citing movement tied to a skill, slow movement in general, weapon penalties and added combat complexities, and so on.. plus other logistics (how do wizards prepare spells, blah blah).
1.) Do you find that to be true?
2.) If so, do you ever wish it wasn't?
Golarion has so many cool and terrifying mysteries under the waves, I wish we could explore them more. Not just to race to Aboleths, but to other stuff as well.
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James, at Gencon will you and Baron Armen Heashvaun please meet me here?
No urban Aboleths I promise!
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Creative Director
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Some of my peers have said that Pathfinder Core Rules don't lend themselves to adventuring underwater very well. That while there are temporary fixes for short adventures and encounters, long term it is more of a hassle than fun. They're citing movement tied to a skill, slow movement in general, weapon penalties and added combat complexities, and so on.. plus other logistics (how do wizards prepare spells, blah blah).
1.) Do you find that to be true?
2.) If so, do you ever wish it wasn't?
Golarion has so many cool and terrifying mysteries under the waves, I wish we could explore them more. Not just to race to Aboleths, but to other stuff as well.
Underwater is a HOSTILE environment. It's not meant to be a place for player characters to excel. They are SUPPOSED to be hampered there. Same for setting adventures on hostile planes, encounters in burning buildings, and so on. They are ways to provide additional challenges for higher level PCs.
I think that what's happening here isn't so much the core rules not lending themselves to a particular type of adventuring well and much more a case of the core rules not empowering GMs to be comfortable adjusting game play for their own table styles or simply ignoring some rules or ad hocing others.
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Creative Director
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James, at Gencon will you and Baron Armen Heashvaun please meet me here?
No urban Aboleths I promise!
I'll deputize Jason for that task.
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Creative Director
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Do you feel better about Scott Pilgrim vs. The World?I was thinking on Fury Road after my third viewing. Did you realize the people living in the muck are reminiscent of the stilt creatures from Dark Crystal and the garbage lady from Labrinth?
p.s. You don't need to watch Kung Fury unless you really miss bad movies from the late 80s that are juvenile.
I did.
And I grew up in the 80s and have a LOT of nostalgia for those movies. Turns out, those movies are still out there and I can go ahead and watch them when I want. I don't really need to see something that might mock parts of my childhood.
Yes. That movie was delightful.
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Oh gods, HeroForge just updated their mini-building service with the ability to add canine faces and fox tails to their miniatures....
James, will you stop me from blowing my life's savings on millions of kitsune miniatures?
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Creative Director
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Oh gods, HeroForge just updated their mini-building service with the ability to add canine faces and fox tails to their miniatures....
James, will you stop me from blowing my life's savings on millions of kitsune miniatures?
Nope. Buy them all!
Wait... can you add different numbers of fox tails? You should buy variants of 1 tailed all the way up to 9 tailed minis.
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James is there an idea of a plot that you would like to make as an AP but had to drop because it doesn't fit with the Golarion setting?No. Mostly because I don't spend much time thinking about AP plots UNLESS they fit into Golarion, since I don't have a need to build non-Golarion APs.
NOTABLE EXCEPTION: I have several AP ideas for my Unspeakable Futures game that won't work well for Golarion because these APs are, by their nature, set on a postapocalyptic Earth and thus utilize elements that are not thematically or ruleswise available for Golarion. But I've never considered those APs for Golarion, so I've never had to drop them.
So any chance of you publishing them someday, maybe a kickstarter or something?
I sure you don't have the time right now but I would back that
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James is there an idea of a plot that you would like to make as an AP but had to drop because it doesn't fit with the Golarion setting?No. Mostly because I don't spend much time thinking about AP plots UNLESS they fit into Golarion, since I don't have a need to build non-Golarion APs.
NOTABLE EXCEPTION: I have several AP ideas for my Unspeakable Futures game that won't work well for Golarion because these APs are, by their nature, set on a postapocalyptic Earth and thus utilize elements that are not thematically or ruleswise available for Golarion. But I've never considered those APs for Golarion, so I've never had to drop them.
So any chance of you publishing them someday, maybe a kickstarter or something?
I sure you don't have the time right now but I would back that
There's a chance. That chance increases VASTLY if my employment status at Paizo changes. AKA: Running a kickstarter for an RPG and an AP to support it is a full time job, and while I have 2 full time jobs already (Creative Director AND Adventure Path developer) I'm not really eager to add a third to my schedule.
If that changes... and if I decide the next thing I want is to self-publish Unspeakable Futures... I'll certainly be tooting that horn ALL OVER the internets.
Oh gods, HeroForge just updated their mini-building service with the ability to add canine faces and fox tails to their miniatures....
James, will you stop me from blowing my life's savings on millions of kitsune miniatures?
Nope. Buy them all!
Wait... can you add different numbers of fox tails? You should buy variants of 1 tailed all the way up to 9 tailed minis.
Not yet, sadly.
And geez! Someone REALLY wants to break my bank. Do you know how many kitsune PCs I have? The answer is 6. 6 plus a cohort.
What race have you played the most of in 3.5/Pathfinder and how many characters do you have of that race?
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I'm sure it varies per region... But as a general rule, what are the laws of inheritance for when someone returns from the dead? I suppose the returnee usually retains his property... But what if he comes back after a long time (e.g.: 5 years... Or 10). What of he returns as an undead? I suppose unintelligent undead can't hold property... But what about intelligent ones who "live" in areas where undead are hated but not necessarilly illegal?
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I saw your statement upthread about how and why reanimation of the dead is indeed a certifiably Evil practice in the Golarion setting. Even so, there are some necromantic traditions which make me wonder if their metaphysics are different enough to make them exceptions (or at least variations) to that rule?
The methods in question are:
- Osirian necromancy (the Pathfinder Society trait Attuned to the Ancestors implies that they have a radically less hostile view of necromancy and the undead)
- alchemical reanimation (after all, you're not hijacking the soul here, just quickening the husk)
- occult/psychic necromancy (which is just exciting unexplored country all around, innit?)
With Golarion and the fact that Pathfinder codifies evil and quantifies it with the alignment system... we don't have that luxury when coming at the world from a game designer or GM angle. Characters IN world can still argue it, but on this side, we can see all the moving parts.
When you build a world for an RPG like Pathfinder, you get to make that decision. We built Golarion, so WE got to make that one. And we decided it's evil.
I understand that - I was wondering, based on perceived differences, whether the few specific forms of necromancy that I listed might function as exceptions to the rule.
James, what's your opinion of motivational speakers?
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Creative Director
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Oh gods, HeroForge just updated their mini-building service with the ability to add canine faces and fox tails to their miniatures....
James, will you stop me from blowing my life's savings on millions of kitsune miniatures?
Nope. Buy them all!
Wait... can you add different numbers of fox tails? You should buy variants of 1 tailed all the way up to 9 tailed minis.
Not yet, sadly.
And geez! Someone REALLY wants to break my bank. Do you know how many kitsune PCs I have? The answer is 6. 6 plus a cohort.
What race have you played the most of in 3.5/Pathfinder and how many characters do you have of that race?
Probably human. Half-elf or tiefling is probably second. Let's see... off the top of my head...
Tyralandi = human
Torak = Awakened deinonychus
Shensen = half-aquatic elf (reincarnated into that body from drow)
Thistle Ambermead = halfling (DEAD)
Myrmyxicus = tiefling (DEAD)
Lavinia Ameiko = human
Echo Sidrah = human
Sasha Dracktus = human (DEAD)
Bezlarue = tiefling
Asenath Mercaddicus = elf
Rowyn Tai'Tesserill = human
Annah Tai'Tesserill = half-celestial human
Socorro = human (DEAD)
Ruvagog = human
Alivorah (I think that was her name) = drow noble
Chuko = kenku (DEAD)
Willarue = human (DEAD)
Zulshyn = drow
Some changeling whose name I forgot (DEAD)
So yeah... humans for sure at the number 1 spot, with drow and tieflings tied in the number 2 spot.
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Creative Director
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I'm sure it varies per region... But as a general rule, what are the laws of inheritance for when someone returns from the dead? I suppose the returnee usually retains his property... But what if he comes back after a long time (e.g.: 5 years... Or 10). What of he returns as an undead? I suppose unintelligent undead can't hold property... But what about intelligent ones who "live" in areas where undead are hated but not necessarilly illegal?
As a general rule, if someone comes back from the dead quick they would normally get their stuff back, but if they come back after a long time, they're usually out of luck if they don't have friends and allies to help them get re-established. Generally coming back as undead means you don't get ANY of your stuff unless it was pre-meditated and you have allies holding your things for you.
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Creative Director
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I understand that - I was wondering, based on perceived differences, whether the few specific forms of necromancy that I listed might function as exceptions to the rule.I saw your statement upthread about how and why reanimation of the dead is indeed a certifiably Evil practice in the Golarion setting. Even so, there are some necromantic traditions which make me wonder if their metaphysics are different enough to make them exceptions (or at least variations) to that rule?
The methods in question are:
- Osirian necromancy (the Pathfinder Society trait Attuned to the Ancestors implies that they have a radically less hostile view of necromancy and the undead)
- alchemical reanimation (after all, you're not hijacking the soul here, just quickening the husk)
- occult/psychic necromancy (which is just exciting unexplored country all around, innit?)
With Golarion and the fact that Pathfinder codifies evil and quantifies it with the alignment system... we don't have that luxury when coming at the world from a game designer or GM angle. Characters IN world can still argue it, but on this side, we can see all the moving parts.
When you build a world for an RPG like Pathfinder, you get to make that decision. We built Golarion, so WE got to make that one. And we decided it's evil.
If you're making undead, it pretty much counts as evil. The spiritualist gets around this in an interesting way I'm not ready to talk about. Partially because I've not read the class and am operating on hearsay from the design team. Mostly cause the book isn't out yet.
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James, what's your opinion of motivational speakers?
Same as for pro golf players, plumbers, trombone players, piano tuners, teachers, firefighters, clerks, surgeons, carpenters, beekeepers, game designers, and all other jobs. Some are good, some are bad, and they have their place. I might not need their services today, but who knows what tomorrow might bring?