I can't speak for the oracle design specs, but one thing that was very much part of the APG spell construction was creating elemental spells that actually USED THAT ELEMENT.
Air spells that used air, not lightning.
Earth spells that used rock, stone, dirt, sand, EARTH, not acid.
Water spells that used liquid water, not cold.
Fire, of course, is fire.Anyway, in the APG the other 3 "classical" elements had their spell lists buttressed so that, if you were an oracle of the WIND, you would have powers that actually used WIND. For my part of the spell design process, at least, that was certainly something I worked to do, and in the end that was reflected in the spells in the book in general. If you feel like the end result is spells that suck, then I hope you find other parts of the book that you like better. Same if you feel they were unimaginative or not "out of the box."
Then again, I'd actually argue that the box itself hadn't been adequately explored, and that the original choices to fill elemental roles were largely legacy choices rather than a large-scale filling and expansion of spell lists in the core rules. At some point, at the dawn of 3rd Ed, the energy/element associations were set up. Rather than creating new (or adapting existing 2nd Ed) spells to the elemental domains that were literally earth/air/fire/water related, they simply borrowed energy/element analogs from elsewhere in the core rules.
Over the course of 3rd Ed, many more "true element" spells were added, but the core was already set and couldn't be redone. So too it was when Pathfinder was designed; in order to maintain the design imperative of backwards compatibility, they couldn't...
I'm glad to hear that the APG was designed this way. This is good game design. Thinking outside the box is valuable when people are limited by the box, but ignoring what's in the box, as Jason shows, is equally limiting.
Most of this stuff sounds pretty cool. I'm really eager to get the APG and check out all the new stuff characters can do. On the other hand, I wonder if any of the existing Witch hexes got nerfed. My Witch is only 2nd level but has been fun so far. Are there any painful surprises? Also, can somebody shed some light on how the Witch's bonus spells work now?Here are the Witch Hex Changes from the finale playtest doc, as far as I can tell.
Cackle no longer affects the Ward Hex (probably because it didn't need to)Coven explicitly states that you need a real hag to have a coven.
Evil Eye now has the mind-affecting descriptor :(
Major Hexes seem to be the same.
Forced Reincarnate dropped the line "This process takes 1 full round, during which time the creature is in complete agony."
Life Giver now says "touch a dead creature" instead of "touch one part of a dead creature"
Natural Disaster now has this line, "A witch must concentrate for the duration of this effect. If disrupted, the effect immediately ends."
As to how bonus spells work, they're basically the same, they just aren't tied to your familiar.
So you pick a familiar, and get it's bonus (like +2 Reflex save for fox), and then you pick a Patron Theme, which gives you the bonus spell list (so the fox bonus spell list is now the Trickery Patron Theme).
And of course you can mix and match, picking any familiar and any bonus spell list you want.
Also, the Familiar List changed. The Goat and Pig are gone, and now you get all the sorcerer/wizard choices plus Centipede, Crab, Fox, Octopus, Scorpion, and Spider.
Stats for them are as follows:
...
These familiars make use of statistics presented in the
Pathfinder RPG Bestiary (on the noted pages), specifically
the house centipede (43), king crab (50), greensting
scorpion (242), fox (dog with the young template, 87),
octopus (octopus with the young template, 219), and
scarlet spider (258).
What sort of bonuses do the new familiars give?
Can someone tell me which races have Witch favored class options?
Can someone tell me which races have Witch favored class options?
it was mentioned somewhere else on the thread that the races with special options for witches were human, half-elf and half-orc.Both the human's and the half-elf's bonus was the extra spells known as per the human sorcerer(not nearly as useful for the witch) and the half orc's gave skill points to your familiar.
Does anyone known what races get special options for monks?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
|
What sort of bonuses do the new familiars give?
Centipede - Stealth
Crab - GrappleFox - Reflex
Octopus - Swim
Scorpion - Initiative
Spider - Climb
Skills get +3, other stuff +2
Can someone tell me which races have Witch favored class options?
Half-elves get extra spells known, one level lower than highest you can cast.
Half-orcs get extra skill points for their familiar
Humans get the same thing as Half-elves
Tired of a your player's constantly creating an army of summoned creatures to spam the enemy? Why then just sick a Banishment wizard of 8th level at the summonlings.
Aura of Banishment (Su):
Need I say more? Perhaps but I don't want to get in trouble again for posting stuff.
Technically, you CAN'T get into trouble for posting things from the book. Not spoiling content verbatim, is little more than a courtesy to the Pathfinder subscribers.
So you have to ask yourself: Do you feel like being a big jerk or not?
Well, I am a suscriber, and I wouldn't feel insulted. I got to read the thing a whole week now, you plebs ( kidding! ^^ ) have to wheedle it out of the guys who are kind enough to post about it, piece by piece. :p
Half-orcs get extra skill points for their familiar
Wait, I'm sorry, isn't that the same as the regular favored class bonus? I mean, familiars automatically get all your skill ranks, so that's like getting the bonus skill points except now ONLY your familiar can use them.
Also, any word on elemental wizards? I'm dying over here. :(
Another thing I wonder about: No "Extra Smite" feat. Are smites so feared by the designers that they avoided that feat? :p
Seeing as how smite lasts until the target is dead, you don't need as many as you used to.
I was looking at the Ranger and it looks like they really avoided giving them anymore Ranged goodies. The skirmisher only gets 2 abilities that tie into his ranged combat while the others are more melee minded.
I am really loving all these Sub-domains. Mainly because I am creating my own campaign world which uses all of the old real world Gods from Earth that could be found in the 1st edition Deity and Demi-Gods book. There a lot of Gods. Right now I am in the process of assigning all the Domains and Subdomains that fits their profiles. Of course if Pazio goes and creates a Deity and Demi-God based off the old one then all that work will be of course for not.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
snipsville...
It's probably no consolation that, had I been designing the oracle class and its mysteries, I'd probably have done it very similarly to Jason B; after all, I've created character classes and magic systems in my home campaigns that follow more of the "true element" model. I think the mysteries are nicely done, and you can see from the thread that a fair number of people are enjoying the way they have been done, but everybody's not going to like everything equally well.
That's why I say, in all sincerity, I hope you found other parts of the book that you liked better. The people who write, develop, and edit for Paizo are generally smart, considerate, thoughtful people people who love the game and think carefully about the things they write. That's no guarantee that we can satisfy everyone every time with every rule, so the best we can hope for is that, on balance, you find the total product enough of a YAY to balance out the (hopefully few) places where you find it a bummer.
P.S. You can always ask your DM to just let you play the APG classes beta version of the Wind mystery, or work with your DM to see if they're willing to set up a custom list. Society play, you're outta luck, but in a home game it's all about the funzorz.
stuff
If the only thing I'm going to be disappointed in is the Wind mystery so be it. It isn't really a big deal. And you can't please everybody ;-)
Thanks for your answers and your patiens.Kind regards Zark.
So any potion belt or scroll organizer in the APG?
So any potion belt or scroll organizer in the APG?No, there are a few items like this in the Adventurers armory but in spite of the massive overlap those didn't make it in.
Thanks for the answer. I know there is a scroll case in Adventurers armory, but I couldn't find a potion belt.
Perhaps Paizo can't create potion belt or scroll organizer without getting into trouble with WotC.
I've picked up tit-bits on the boards and feedback from Paizo staff in other threads regards the sample traits that the APG presents... anyone care to give me a lowdown on them?
Cheers
I've picked up tit-bits on the boards and feedback from Paizo staff in other threads regards the sample traits that the APG presents... anyone care to give me a lowdown on them?
Some that don't appear in the Character Traits Web Enhancement:
Campaign:
Favored Son / Daughter- Gain a local ally who is upstanding and well-respected
Black Sheep- Gain a local ally who is somewhat less upstanding and respected
Outlander- Choose from Lore Seeker, Exile, or Missionary
Race:
Dwarf: Goldsniffer, Tunnel Fighter
Elf: Forlorn, Warrior of Old
etc...
Edit-
Also, each religion gets a single trait. There are sample Regional traits that are tied to a generic region type like desert, mountain, urban, etc.
|
|
And we would buy it Jason. We would buy it.I could see doing a Pclass for a wide variety of combos like this to make the concepts work out a bit better, but that would be a rather large book I think.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
+1 Im pretty sure you would have a market for such a book :)
Cosmopolitan
I just read up on this feat and I must say that it is very cool.
Not only does this feat let you pick up two more languages but you also get to pick 2 skills Wis, Cha, or Int based as class skills.
For one little feat that is pretty darn nice, especially if you like playing skill monkeys.
Cosmopolitan
I just read up on this feat and I must say that it is very cool.
Not only does this feat let you pick up two more languages but you also get to pick 2 skills Wis, Cha, or Int based as class skills.
For one little feat that is pretty darn nice, especially if you like playing skill monkeys.
+1 :-)
I am curious how the alternative race features work. Do you swap them out 1 for 1?
Exactly. Most of them remove the same feature though. Like all the elf ones get rid of Elf Magic.
what are all the new combat maneuvers and what are they used for?
[...]
The Arcane Duelist is, among other things, a more fightery kind of bard.
The Magician is, among other things, a more wizardy kind of bard.
The Sandman is, among other things, a more roguey kind of bard.Bards are an interesting hybrid chassis, and in addition to following themes of content, some of the archetypes were built as themes as play style and mechanics to emphasize one corner of the bard's split personality (and add some interesting flav to each); hopefully they'll be a lot of fun to play.
Jason Nelson, I've now got more information on the The Arcane Duelist.
I'm one of the people who been complaining about the bard. Basically that the bard isn't what I want it to be. For the first time I can now play EXACTLY the bard I always wanted. I just love it. If you are the one who created it. Thank you! :-) :-) :-)
feat at 1st level. This ability replaces bardic knowledge.
Bardic Performance: A spellsword gains the following
types of bardic performance.
Rallying Cry (Su): At 1st level, an arcane duelist can use
performance to rally dispirited allies. Each round he
makes an Intimidate check. Any ally (including the bard)
within 30 feet may use this check in place of his own saving
throw against fear and despair effects. Those already
under a fear or despair effect can attempt a new save each
round using the bard’s Intimidate check. Rallying cry
does not work on effects that don’t allow saves. This is
a mind-affecting ability that uses audible components.
This performance replaces countersong.
They also get at higher levels;
Bladethirst, bard version of the paladins divine weapon bond.
Mass Bladethirst, can distribute it to friends
Different selections for Bonus Feats
Arcane Bond, weapon only
Medium and Heavy armor proficiency with no arcane spell failure
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
[...]
The Arcane Duelist is, among other things, a more fightery kind of bard.
The Magician is, among other things, a more wizardy kind of bard.
The Sandman is, among other things, a more roguey kind of bard.Bards are an interesting hybrid chassis, and in addition to following themes of content, some of the archetypes were built as themes as play style and mechanics to emphasize one corner of the bard's split personality (and add some interesting flav to each); hopefully they'll be a lot of fun to play.
Jason Nelson, I've now got more information on the The Arcane Duelist.
I'm one of the people who been complaining about the bard. Basically that the bard isn't what I want it to be. For the first time I can now play EXACTLY the bard I always wanted. I just love it. If you are the one who created it. Thank you! :-) :-) :-)
Amusingly ironic considering prior conversation, but it's all smiles in the end and that's what counts. Sometimes you gotta see it to believe it. In any event, you are most welcome and I hope it's nothing but Happy Action Fun Ball once you sit down with the AD at your table.
I am curious how the alternative race features work. Do you swap them out 1 for 1?Exactly. Most of them remove the same feature though. Like all the elf ones get rid of Elf Magic.
Huh, I'd have thought they could trade in their weapon familiarity - same for other races.
Anything to replace the following?
Dwarf: Defensive Training, Greed, Hatred?
Half-Elf: Adaptability, Multitalented?
Seems to me that replacements would best be made for cultural, rather than biological/supernatural, traits. While I can see the latter in subspecies, the former makes sense for characters raised outside their cultural heritage, which is more common than evolutionary offshoots.
Is there any more rules on playing nonstandard races? The section on monster NPCs in the core seems a little light on hard rules to me - a lot of "the GM should carefully balance" type stuff. If we go by the "CR = Level" drow should be on par with other races, but they are specifically mentioned as being more powerful than standard. Core shows tieflings being on par with standard, but the Bastards of Erebus section on them says they are a little more so, by about half a level. Level adjustment wasn't perfect, but at least it didn't lead to arguments (which frequently happen in my group).
Can anyone hook me up with some info on Elemental wizards, please? I'm really curious.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
|
Half-orcs get extra skill points for their familiarWait, I'm sorry, isn't that the same as the regular favored class bonus? I mean, familiars automatically get all your skill ranks, so that's like getting the bonus skill points except now ONLY your familiar can use them.
Also, any word on elemental wizards? I'm dying over here. :(
Huh, didn't think of that, but yeah, that one is kind of weird isn't it?
Here's the actual text:
Witch: Add 1 skill rank to the witch’s familiar. If the
half-orc ever replaces her familiar, the new familiar gains
these bonus skill ranks.
As for Elemental Wizards, anything in particular you'd like to know?
Anything to replace the following?
Dwarf: Defensive Training, Greed, Hatred?
Half-Elf: Adaptability, Multitalented?
Dwarves:
Defensive Training - Deep WarriorGreed - Craftsman, Lorekeeper
Hatred - Ancient Enmity
Hardy - Magic Resistant, Stubborn
Stability - Relentless
Stonecutting - Stonesinger
Weapon Familiarity - (none)
Favored Class Options - Barbarian, Cleric, Fighter, Oracle, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue
Half-Elves:
Adaptability - Ancestral Arms, Dual Minded, Integrated, Sociable, Water Child*
Elf Blood - (none)
Elven Immunities - (none)
Keen Senses - (none)
Multitalented - Arcane Training, Water Child*
Favored Class Options - Bard, Druid, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Summoner, Witch
*Water Child swaps both.
As for Elemental Wizards, anything in particular you'd like to know?
Yeah, I'm curious if Elemental Wizards are like the Wu Jen, or if they're just a blasting subset of Evocation.
I'm also curious what the Half-Elf can trade out in terms of racials.
I am green with envy...
Hopefully we get some copies in our FLGS up here in Canada by this Friday.
"Pretty please? With chocolate-covered kobolds on top?"
.
.
.**light bulb comes on**
Oooo. A new condition: chocolate-covered.
I was at the Ohio state fair the other day, and they were selling chocolate covered bacon. It's called "Muddy Pig."
True story.
|
I'm also curious what the Half-Elf can trade out in terms of racials.
How'd you like to swap out your Skill Focus feat for a Martial or Exotic Weapon Proficiency? 'Cause you can now. :)
Edit: Or for a +2 racial bonus to Will saves. So yes, you could have a 1st level half-elf cleric with a 20 Wisdom and Iron Will with a +11 Will save, or +12 with a Trait.
I'm also curious what the Half-Elf can trade out in terms of racials.How'd you like to swap out your Skill Focus feat for a Martial or Exotic Weapon Proficiency? 'Cause you can now. :)
Edit: Or for a +2 racial bonus to Will saves. So yes, you could have a 1st level half-elf cleric with a 20 Wisdom and Iron Will with a +11 Will save, or +12 with a Trait.
*drool @ the weapon proficiency*
Yeah, I'm curious if Elemental Wizards are like the Wu Jen, or if they're just a blasting subset of Evocation.
Mostly the latter.
I'm also curious what the Half-Elf can trade out in terms of racials.
Like, two posts above yours.
I am green with envy...
Hopefully we get some copies in our FLGS up here in Canada by this Friday.
"Pretty please? With chocolate-covered kobolds on top?"
.
.
.**light bulb comes on**
Oooo. A new condition: chocolate-covered.
I was at the Ohio state fair the other day, and they were selling chocolate covered bacon. It's called "Muddy Pig."
True story.
My friend made some Chocolate chip and Bacon cookies, not very good as it turns out, but worth trying once
Bacon wrapped dead fried chocolate covered twinkies rolled in powdered suger and oreo bits.
'nough said.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
|
As for Elemental Wizards, anything in particular you'd like to know?Yeah, I'm curious if Elemental Wizards are like the Wu Jen, or if they're just a blasting subset of Evocation.
I'm also curious what the Half-Elf can trade out in terms of racials.
They're a bit blasty, but I don't think they're excessively so, or that you can't play them other ways. There are some fun non-evocation spells on the elementalist list--Earth for example gets all the new Create Pit spells.
There are some fun non-evocation spells on the elementalist list--Earth for example gets all the new Create Pit spells.
Which, interestingly enough, does not even need earth.
Just went through and checked the changes to the Witch spell list, here's what I found (New Spells marked with a *):
0-level
Lost-Prestidigitation
Gained-Putrefy Food and Drink*, Spark*1st-level
Lost-Faerie Fire, Feather Fall, Grease
Gained-Beguiling Gift*, Dancing Lantern*, Ill Omen*, Mask Dweomer*2nd-level
Lost-Hideous Laughter, Restoration (lesser)
Gained-Burning Gaze*, Feast of Ashes*, Fester*, Hidden Speech*, Perceive Cues*, Pox Pustules*, Vomit Swarm*3rd-level
Lost-None
Gained-Cup of Dust*, Guiding Star*, Nature's Exile*, Pain Strike*, Screech*, Seek Thoughts*, Share Senses*, Twilight Knife*4th-level
Lost-Baleful Polymorph (moved to 5th), Good Hope, Restoration
Gained-Moonstruck*, Phantasmal Killer, Sleepwalk*, Spite*, Threefold Aspect*, Wandering Star Motes*5th-level
Lost-Commune with Nature, Insect Plague, Wall of Thorns
Gained-Baleful Polymorph, Banish Seeming*, Pain Strike (mass)*, Rest Eternal*, Suffocation*6th-level
Lost-None
Gained-Cloak of Dreams*, Fester (mass)*, Swarm Skin*, Unwilling Shield*7th-level
Lost-Restoration (greater)
Gained-None8th-level
Lost-None
Gained-Stormbolts*0-level
Lost-None
Gained-Suffocation (mass)*
i'm curious about burning gaze, hidden speech and perceive cues. could you please tell us what they do?